When a druid conjures animals, they appear and the player rolls initiative for them as a group. It doesn't say whether they can act in the round summoned, is the initiative for the following round?
The roll initative and act then - so if the initative is lower than the caster, then theyll get to act in that round. If it's higher then they'll have to wait until the next round of combat.
"Round" is really relative after round one. I don't think there is a single rule or effect, that cares about "rounds." Every effect is measured by your own turns.
No matter what their initiative is, the summons will act before your next turn.
"Round" is really relative after round one. I don't think there is a single rule or effect, that cares about "rounds." Every effect is measured by your own turns.
No matter what their initiative is, the summons will act before your next turn.
The only thing I can think of is stuff like Lair actions, although I suppose it's usually not treated as a per-round thing so much as just an event that occurs at Initiative 0
"Round" is really relative after round one. I don't think there is a single rule or effect, that cares about "rounds." Every effect is measured by your own turns.
No matter what their initiative is, the summons will act before your next turn.
The only thing I can think of is stuff like Lair actions, although I suppose it's usually not treated as a per-round thing so much as just an event that occurs at Initiative 0
I figured someone would mention lair actions, but they just go on the turn order and don't care when the round actually changes.
While it's true that summons will always act before your next turn, there's a pretty significant difference between "They go after me but before anyone else" and "They go after everyone but me". In a boss fight where I summon on round 1
If I roll better than the boss, and they roll better than the boss but worse then me, they act before the boss takes any actions.
If I roll worse than the boss and they roll better than the boss, or I roll better than the boss and they roll better than me or worse than the boss, they act after the boss has gone once.
If I roll worse than the boss and they roll better than me and worse than the boss, they act after the boss has gone twice.
No other sustained damage effect has that much variance, they will either apply before the boss takes any actions, or after the boss takes one action.
However, the other end of things is that summons have a lot of duration and do a lot of damage.
Actually, this is kind of hijacking the topic but... how many people actually roll new initiatives for any summoned creatures? In my experience any DM I've been with doesn't want to deal with tracking even more positions in the initiative order, so any time its ever come up for me the DM always just rules that any summoned creatures just take their turn immediately after the character's turn.
While it's true that summons will always act before your next turn, there's a pretty significant difference between "They go after me but before anyone else" and "They go after everyone but me". In a boss fight where I summon on round 1
If I roll better than the boss, and they roll better than the boss but worse then me, they act before the boss takes any actions.
If I roll worse than the boss and they roll better than the boss, or I roll better than the boss and they roll better than me or worse than the boss, they act after the boss has gone once.
If I roll worse than the boss and they roll better than me and worse than the boss, they act after the boss has gone twice.
No other sustained damage effect has that much variance, they will either apply before the boss takes any actions, or after the boss takes one action.
However, the other end of things is that summons have a lot of duration and do a lot of damage.
While all of this is true, none of it matters what round it is or about rounds in general, and also doesn't have to do with what the question was asking.
But yes, enemies in the turn order after you, but before your summons act after you, but before your summons. I'm just not sure what your point was with posting this.
While it's true that summons will always act before your next turn, there's a pretty significant difference between "They go after me but before anyone else" and "They go after everyone but me". In a boss fight where I summon on round 1
If I roll better than the boss, and they roll better than the boss but worse then me, they act before the boss takes any actions.
If I roll worse than the boss and they roll better than the boss, or I roll better than the boss and they roll better than me or worse than the boss, they act after the boss has gone once.
If I roll worse than the boss and they roll better than me and worse than the boss, they act after the boss has gone twice.
No other sustained damage effect has that much variance, they will either apply before the boss takes any actions, or after the boss takes one action.
However, the other end of things is that summons have a lot of duration and do a lot of damage.
While all of this is true, none of it matters what round it is or about rounds in general, and also doesn't have to do with what the question was asking.
But yes, enemies in the turn order after you, but before your summons act after you, but before your summons. I'm just not sure what your point was with posting this.
I think the point is that depending on how you role, your summons may deal huge damage (8 charging elk can do a hell of a lot of damage) or they may all be obliterated by a Fireball without having had a chance to move.
It really makes no difference if the boss has gone once or twice. What does matter is that the summoned creatures may either be extremely useful or dead, depending on what you score on a single D20. What makes it particularly odd is that if the boss rolled high, it's beneficial to roll low for your summoned creatures Initiative, so that they will have a chance to act before the boss (and since combat has already started, going higher in the order makes no difference).
Actually, this is kind of hijacking the topic but... how many people actually roll new initiatives for any summoned creatures? In my experience any DM I've been with doesn't want to deal with tracking even more positions in the initiative order, so any time its ever come up for me the DM always just rules that any summoned creatures just take their turn immediately after the character's turn.
Tracking initiative is already cumbersome enough with many creatures that this is what our group does: my summons go right after me. Packs of hostiles often go together at our table too; initiative simplifications can really speed combat up. Using this method, you do at least get one round out of the summons. Even CR 1 or 2 creatures can be one-shot by the CR 5ish creatures that you may be facing when you first obtain the spell, so making sure that they go at least once is super beneficial, and I and the DM don't have to try to remember two places in the order where I get actions.
When a druid conjures animals, they appear and the player rolls initiative for them as a group. It doesn't say whether they can act in the round summoned, is the initiative for the following round?
The short answer is that the rules for when a creature acts are stated in the source of the creature.
The general rule of thumb is that if the creature acts independently of you (not needing you to continue spending an action/bonus action directing them), they roll their own initiative, and they do not act until their turn comes up. It's a mistake of perception bias to assume that not getting to act in the same round with a high initiative roll is a slight against the player; it's not. If the intent were for a summoned creature to be able to act in the same round, regardless of initiative, the source would say as such.
[edit]
Even if your summoned creature gets wiped out before it has the chance to act, the player has received a benefit from their action. That's damage that (theoretically) your party didn't take. If they get wiped out by an AoE that may include some party members, tough break... that's just a consequence of the decisions made.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
how many people actually roll new initiatives for any summoned creatures? In my experience any DM I've been with doesn't want to deal with tracking even more positions in the initiative order, so any time its ever come up for me the DM always just rules that any summoned creatures just take their turn immediately after the character's turn.
Exactly. Me too. But summons are powerful as is, and this makes them more so. I compromise by offering the players a choice for the campaign. Either:
The summons act immediately, but I (as DM) choose what is summoned (based on the players specified CR, and the location summoned), or
The player chooses what is summoned, but (since we use side-initiative), the summoned creatures have a 50/50 chance of going before the opposition (i.e. about the same as rolling initiative).
The least powerful option is to give summons summoning sickness: they act on your initiative on the round after you summon them.
*fixed
This option guarantees every creature in the turn order gets an opportunity to act before your summons. I prefer to just run it as written.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with how things already function by RAW... Most summons act independently, and roll their own initiative. If the result of their initiative roll doesn't work out exactly how you wanted for your plan... too bad. That's not just how initiative works; that's how every roll of the dice works.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
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When a druid conjures animals, they appear and the player rolls initiative for them as a group. It doesn't say whether they can act in the round summoned, is the initiative for the following round?
The roll initative and act then - so if the initative is lower than the caster, then theyll get to act in that round. If it's higher then they'll have to wait until the next round of combat.
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"Round" is really relative after round one. I don't think there is a single rule or effect, that cares about "rounds." Every effect is measured by your own turns.
No matter what their initiative is, the summons will act before your next turn.
The only thing I can think of is stuff like Lair actions, although I suppose it's usually not treated as a per-round thing so much as just an event that occurs at Initiative 0
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Usually initiative count 20, though as DxJxC suggests, the difference is meaningless after the first round.
I figured someone would mention lair actions, but they just go on the turn order and don't care when the round actually changes.
While it's true that summons will always act before your next turn, there's a pretty significant difference between "They go after me but before anyone else" and "They go after everyone but me". In a boss fight where I summon on round 1
No other sustained damage effect has that much variance, they will either apply before the boss takes any actions, or after the boss takes one action.
However, the other end of things is that summons have a lot of duration and do a lot of damage.
Actually, this is kind of hijacking the topic but... how many people actually roll new initiatives for any summoned creatures? In my experience any DM I've been with doesn't want to deal with tracking even more positions in the initiative order, so any time its ever come up for me the DM always just rules that any summoned creatures just take their turn immediately after the character's turn.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
While all of this is true, none of it matters what round it is or about rounds in general, and also doesn't have to do with what the question was asking.
But yes, enemies in the turn order after you, but before your summons act after you, but before your summons. I'm just not sure what your point was with posting this.
I think the point is that depending on how you role, your summons may deal huge damage (8 charging elk can do a hell of a lot of damage) or they may all be obliterated by a Fireball without having had a chance to move.
It really makes no difference if the boss has gone once or twice. What does matter is that the summoned creatures may either be extremely useful or dead, depending on what you score on a single D20. What makes it particularly odd is that if the boss rolled high, it's beneficial to roll low for your summoned creatures Initiative, so that they will have a chance to act before the boss (and since combat has already started, going higher in the order makes no difference).
Tracking initiative is already cumbersome enough with many creatures that this is what our group does: my summons go right after me. Packs of hostiles often go together at our table too; initiative simplifications can really speed combat up. Using this method, you do at least get one round out of the summons. Even CR 1 or 2 creatures can be one-shot by the CR 5ish creatures that you may be facing when you first obtain the spell, so making sure that they go at least once is super beneficial, and I and the DM don't have to try to remember two places in the order where I get actions.
It isn't RAW, but it is a common house rule.
The short answer is that the rules for when a creature acts are stated in the source of the creature.
I.e., if a creature is summoned via a spell, like Conjure Animals then that spell will tell you when it acts. If it is from a class feature, like Hound of Ill Omen (Shadow Sorcerer) or Ranger's Companion (Beast Master Ranger), the class feature will tell you when it acts.
The general rule of thumb is that if the creature acts independently of you (not needing you to continue spending an action/bonus action directing them), they roll their own initiative, and they do not act until their turn comes up. It's a mistake of perception bias to assume that not getting to act in the same round with a high initiative roll is a slight against the player; it's not. If the intent were for a summoned creature to be able to act in the same round, regardless of initiative, the source would say as such.
[edit]
Even if your summoned creature gets wiped out before it has the chance to act, the player has received a benefit from their action. That's damage that (theoretically) your party didn't take. If they get wiped out by an AoE that may include some party members, tough break... that's just a consequence of the decisions made.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Exactly. Me too. But summons are powerful as is, and this makes them more so. I compromise by offering the players a choice for the campaign. Either:
The less powerful option is to give summons summoning sickness: they act on your initiative on the round after you summon them.
*fixed
This option guarantees every creature in the turn order gets an opportunity to act before your summons. I prefer to just run it as written.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with how things already function by RAW... Most summons act independently, and roll their own initiative. If the result of their initiative roll doesn't work out exactly how you wanted for your plan... too bad. That's not just how initiative works; that's how every roll of the dice works.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.