Time Stop doesn't say anything about time stopping for objects. It *does* stop time for objects, right? Because otherwise, some moving object somewhere in the world would affect someone in the world, immediately ending the spell and making it useless.
Time Stop only ends if you affect another creature or object. If planes, trains, and automobiles crash and kill their time-frozen occupants, that's not your problem, your magical bubble endures.
I'm inclined to limit the spell to what it says: "stop the flow of time for everyone but yourself." Edge questions like whether that arrests other character's momentum through space abide (does a falling creature continue to fall while frozen? does a flying creature stay fixed in place, or begin to fall?), but for objects at least, there is no text indicating that they are affected in any way.
First, that is the DM's problem, not yours. Second, as C_C pointed out, the spell does not end even if that is the case. Third, the spell already is pretty useless, you get 2-5 extra turns that go away the moment you do anything useful besides move. I guess it would be less accurate to call it useless, and more accurate to say that anything you use it for a (much) lower level spell could have done...
First, that is the DM's problem, not yours. Second, as C_C pointed out, the spell does not end even if that is the case. Third, the spell already is pretty useless, you get 2-5 extra turns that go away the moment you do anything useful besides move. I guess it would be less accurate to call it useless, and more accurate to say that anything you use it for a (much) lower level spell could have done...
Not to mention you only have one cast of a 9th level spell/day which means you are either keeping it for Wish or you have already spent it on Foresight.
Time Stop doesn't say anything about time stopping for objects. It *does* stop time for objects, right?
Correct: the range is "Self" (and the duration is "Instantaneous")... the caster is the one out of phase with time.
Whether or not that is the intended rule, it is not the written rule. I think it is cooler if it actually stops time, so that is how I would run it if a player chose to waste their slot like that.
Lol what do you know another "Instantaneous" spell which actually lasts for 1d4+1 rounds, and is explicitly telling you that the spell lasts for 1d4+1 rounds and not merely its effect because it includes the wording "the spell ends if..."
Lol what do you know another "Instantaneous" spell which actually lasts for 1d4+1 rounds, and is explicitly telling you that the spell lasts for 1d4+1 rounds and not merely its effect because it includes the wording "the spell ends if..."
Time Stop only ends if you affect another creature or object. If planes, trains, and automobiles crash and kill their time-frozen occupants, that's not your problem, your magical bubble endures.
If a vehicle kills someone because of Time Stop, that's me affecting them during the duration of the spell.
First, that is the DM's problem, not yours. Second, as C_C pointed out, the spell does not end even if that is the case. Third, the spell already is pretty useless, you get 2-5 extra turns that go away the moment you do anything useful besides move. I guess it would be less accurate to call it useless, and more accurate to say that anything you use it for a (much) lower level spell could have done...
If I ever DM, then it IS my problem. Also, how can stopping time for everyone but yourself be useless? You can use your first turn to plop down a delayed blast fireball, and then you can use the following turns to heal/buff yourself through potions you wouldn't otherwise have time to drink. It's an open world game's pause menu!
Time Stop only ends if you affect another creature or object. If planes, trains, and automobiles crash and kill their time-frozen occupants, that's not your problem, your magical bubble endures.
If a vehicle kills someone because of Time Stop, that's me affecting them during the duration of the spell.
First, that is the DM's problem, not yours. Second, as C_C pointed out, the spell does not end even if that is the case. Third, the spell already is pretty useless, you get 2-5 extra turns that go away the moment you do anything useful besides move. I guess it would be less accurate to call it useless, and more accurate to say that anything you use it for a (much) lower level spell could have done...
If I ever DM, then it IS my problem. Also, how can stopping time for everyone but yourself be useless? You can use your first turn to plop down a delayed blast fireball, and then you can use the following turns to heal/buff yourself through potions you wouldn't otherwise have time to drink. It's an open world game's pause menu!
I mean, if you are driving the vehicle then making it move is affecting an object. If someone else is driving a vehicle, they don't get an action to move that vehicle (I think vehicle in combat rules solve your problem).
So your argument is that for a 9th level slot, a 7th level slot, and several lower level slots or item resources, you get slightly more benefit that a 9th level enervation or vampiric touch (or less if you manage to maintain concentration on these spells for more than a turn).
For that matter there are several level 7 and lower spells that can get you and the party out of combat to take as many turns as you want to prepare to go back.
The spell is bad on its own and barely improved over other options when combined with very specific other spells. Like I said, whatever you want to use it for, lower level spells can do it better.
Time stop doesn't just get you out of danger mid-combat so you can buff yourself. It also keeps all other creatures from doing the same in the meantime. They literally have no time to react to whatever it is you're doing. How is that useless?
Time stop doesn't just get you out of danger mid-combat so you can buff yourself. It also keeps all other creatures from doing the same in the meantime. They literally have no time to react to whatever it is you're doing. How is that useless?
It's not "useless" objectively but between severly nerfed buffs (concentration), inability to cast debuffs and severly nerfed wizards (only one 9th level slot), there are simply better options.
There is a high chance you will not be able to buff because you are already concentrating on a debuff or another buff anyway. And, like I said, there is a high chance you have already spent your only 9th level slot on Foresight or are holding it for Wish.
It has its uses but it's no longer a staple spell to have in repertoire. Again, mostly because you cast only one spell of that level and not four like in glory days of 3.5.
Time stop doesn't just get you out of danger mid-combat so you can buff yourself. It also keeps all other creatures from doing the same in the meantime. They literally have no time to react to whatever it is you're doing. How is that useless?
You can only buff yourself though, not other party members. And most monster don't have a means of healing or buffing themselves besides taking a rest, so that is really a non-issue. It also doesn't sound like anything action surge can't do. And there is just so many better options for a 9th level slot.
Also, you are really clinging to this idea that I think time stop is useless. I only said that once and I took it back in the same post. I'm saying that it is a less useful option than almost anything else, not that it is without use entirely.
The easy way to have time stop work is that what it actually does is cause you to step out of time; you just take 2-5 turns worth of action in zero time, rather than time stopping for other people.
I used Time Stop in a one-shot where the BBEG used it to 1) Cast Minor Illusion to create a box he could hide in and shoot spells out of 2) Use a card from his Deck of Illusions 3) Cast Seeming on all of the heroes (one of them saved the DC) to make them all look like him. He made the heroes waste a few actions attacking the illusion, trying to find him, and discerning who was disguised. He even got a 5th level Magic Missile off without any of the heroes knowing where the spell came from. The point of him wasn't to kill the heroes but to stall time. It worked pretty well.
Time Stop doesn't say anything about time stopping for objects. It *does* stop time for objects, right? Because otherwise, some moving object somewhere in the world would affect someone in the world, immediately ending the spell and making it useless.
Time Stop only ends if you affect another creature or object. If planes, trains, and automobiles crash and kill their time-frozen occupants, that's not your problem, your magical bubble endures.
I'm inclined to limit the spell to what it says: "stop the flow of time for everyone but yourself." Edge questions like whether that arrests other character's momentum through space abide (does a falling creature continue to fall while frozen? does a flying creature stay fixed in place, or begin to fall?), but for objects at least, there is no text indicating that they are affected in any way.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I think it would be better to think of it more as a localized stasis field. It is focused in a 1000 foot radius
First, that is the DM's problem, not yours. Second, as C_C pointed out, the spell does not end even if that is the case. Third, the spell already is pretty useless, you get 2-5 extra turns that go away the moment you do anything useful besides move. I guess it would be less accurate to call it useless, and more accurate to say that anything you use it for a (much) lower level spell could have done...
Not to mention you only have one cast of a 9th level spell/day which means you are either keeping it for Wish or you have already spent it on Foresight.
Correct: the range is "Self" (and the duration is "Instantaneous")... the caster is the one out of phase with time.
Whether or not that is the intended rule, it is not the written rule. I think it is cooler if it actually stops time, so that is how I would run it if a player chose to waste their slot like that.
Lol what do you know another "Instantaneous" spell which actually lasts for 1d4+1 rounds, and is explicitly telling you that the spell lasts for 1d4+1 rounds and not merely its effect because it includes the wording "the spell ends if..."
Suck it Chapter 10, you have no power here. :p
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Actually, I did recently notice an "instantaneous" spell that lasts for 60-1200 days.
If a vehicle kills someone because of Time Stop, that's me affecting them during the duration of the spell.
If I ever DM, then it IS my problem. Also, how can stopping time for everyone but yourself be useless? You can use your first turn to plop down a delayed blast fireball, and then you can use the following turns to heal/buff yourself through potions you wouldn't otherwise have time to drink. It's an open world game's pause menu!
I mean, if you are driving the vehicle then making it move is affecting an object. If someone else is driving a vehicle, they don't get an action to move that vehicle (I think vehicle in combat rules solve your problem).
So your argument is that for a 9th level slot, a 7th level slot, and several lower level slots or item resources, you get slightly more benefit that a 9th level enervation or vampiric touch (or less if you manage to maintain concentration on these spells for more than a turn).
For that matter there are several level 7 and lower spells that can get you and the party out of combat to take as many turns as you want to prepare to go back.
The spell is bad on its own and barely improved over other options when combined with very specific other spells. Like I said, whatever you want to use it for, lower level spells can do it better.
Time stop doesn't just get you out of danger mid-combat so you can buff yourself. It also keeps all other creatures from doing the same in the meantime. They literally have no time to react to whatever it is you're doing. How is that useless?
It's not "useless" objectively but between severly nerfed buffs (concentration), inability to cast debuffs and severly nerfed wizards (only one 9th level slot), there are simply better options.
There is a high chance you will not be able to buff because you are already concentrating on a debuff or another buff anyway. And, like I said, there is a high chance you have already spent your only 9th level slot on Foresight or are holding it for Wish.
It has its uses but it's no longer a staple spell to have in repertoire. Again, mostly because you cast only one spell of that level and not four like in glory days of 3.5.
Fun spell to use against the players though ;-)
You can only buff yourself though, not other party members. And most monster don't have a means of healing or buffing themselves besides taking a rest, so that is really a non-issue. It also doesn't sound like anything action surge can't do. And there is just so many better options for a 9th level slot.
Also, you are really clinging to this idea that I think time stop is useless. I only said that once and I took it back in the same post. I'm saying that it is a less useful option than almost anything else, not that it is without use entirely.
The easy way to have time stop work is that what it actually does is cause you to step out of time; you just take 2-5 turns worth of action in zero time, rather than time stopping for other people.
I used Time Stop in a one-shot where the BBEG used it to 1) Cast Minor Illusion to create a box he could hide in and shoot spells out of 2) Use a card from his Deck of Illusions 3) Cast Seeming on all of the heroes (one of them saved the DC) to make them all look like him. He made the heroes waste a few actions attacking the illusion, trying to find him, and discerning who was disguised. He even got a 5th level Magic Missile off without any of the heroes knowing where the spell came from. The point of him wasn't to kill the heroes but to stall time. It worked pretty well.
but casting seeming on the characters would instantly end the time Stop wouldn't it?