Now i have a Dragon born 3rd level assassin. Now i am saying to my DM that every time i attack from the shadows its a sneak attack/ surprise attack, and there for all that i need to do is hit and it becomes a critical hit my DM says that i can only get a critical hit if i role a nat 20. I thought any sneak attack was a surprise attack and so all that i would need to do is hit and it turns into a critical hit who is right? I thought that the assassin was a one trick pony and that trick was critical hits, am i wrong?
Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
You're both wrong. An assassin scores a critical hit when they attack a creature that is surprised. A creature is not surprised just because you attack it while it can't see you. The DM determines when a creature is surprised, and that condition only lasts for the first round of combat. Therefore, this ability doesn't work after the first round of combat.
Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
You're both wrong. An assassin scores a critical hit when they attack a creature that is surprised. A creature is not surprised just because you attack it while it can't see you. The DM determines when a creature is surprised, and that condition only lasts for the first round of combat. Therefore, this ability doesn't work after the first round of combat.
But rolling a nat 20 is still a critical hit and i thought that sneak attacking or attacking from the shadows was by it self a sneak or surprise attack so maybe not assassinate would pop off but it would make that attack an auto critical hit the way he is playing it i can get my 2d6 in sneak attack damage but it only does a critical hit if i roll a nat 20 and i thought that sneak attack meant a surprise attack Becouse the attack is not expected
Nah, the way it is written is that surprise is something that last only the very first round. So you would have to get that surprise damage in then. Popping in and out of shadows doesn't allow for surprise logically because the creature knows you are there somewhere, just hiding.
Maybe this will help. In the PHB, surprise is the first set of rules in the combat chapter (hopefully there isn't anything later in the chapter you guys are also getting wrong).
Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
So this means:
In the first round if you attack any creature that hasn't taken a turn, you get advantage.
In the first round, if you hit a creature that is surprised, it is a critical hit.
Note that surprise is first round only, and any creature that has had their surprise 'no action' turn, is no longer surprised.
So as the assassin, you want to 1) work with the DM to figure out how you can be sneaky before combat to surprise the combatants and 2) get high initiative rolls.
Basically, expect to get advantage in the first round of combat, but only get the auto-critical in specific situations that you set up to surprise enemies.
So nat 20s are not critical hits then?he was saying that's the only way i can get the critical hit after the first round and that's why i only got 2 in the game so far
So nat 20s are not critical hits then?he was saying that's the only way i can get the critical hit after the first round and that's why i only got 2 in the game so far
Rolling a natural 20 on an attack roll does result in a critical hit. What you are not grasping is that "Sneak Attack" =/= "Critical Hit" =/= "Surprised". These are specific terms that have specific meanings.
Sneak Attack is your Rogue class feature. It lets you roll additional damage die on a successful attack, once per turn, with a Finesse or ranged weapon, if the attack was made at advantage or if an ally was also within 5ft of the creature. This does not mean the attack is an automatic critical hit.
Surprise is a quasi-condition that only comes up on the 1st round of combat, and only under specific conditions that are determined by your DM. Your Assassin feature allows attack rolls only against a surprised creature to be an automatic critical hit.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
So nat 20s are not critical hits then?he was saying that's the only way i can get the critical hit after the first round and that's why i only got 2 in the game so far
Normally, natural 20s is the only way to get a critical hit. Assassinate provides you with another situation-specific way to get a critical hit.
Sneak attacks have nothing to do with surprise. They do not cause surprise, so they do not auto-crit on a hit.
Keep in mind that "Surprised" and "Hidden" are two separate concepts.
The surprise state is only possible against a target who does not know that they are currently engaged in combat. The surprised condition only lasts for one round of combat. Once that first round completes, everyone present knows that they are in combat and no one can be surprised for the rest of combat.
So it seems like to are missunderstanding some wording.
First of all it appears you are reading these two senstances as if they are one
Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
When in fact it is actually two different things.
You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet
any hit you score against a creature that is Surprise is a critical hit.
The next thing that seems to be throwing you off, is you are considering sneak attack as a surprise attack, which it is not. Technically a more precise name for sneak attack would be something more in line with a targeted hit. Basically you take the time to find a weakness and aim for it, such as the gap between the shoulders and neck where armor is left off to allow the users head to move around, its not really sneaky at all. I've played an Inquisitive Rogue that basically never hid once and used sneak attack all the time. To be fair, its a poorly named ability for the mechanics it used.
A surprise attack is way more specific than simply not being seen or noticed, its a special round in which you as the players get to go, but anyone who is "surprised" skill their turns, even if they are before you. I am honestly not a fan of this mechanic and have generally ruled that as long as you go before the character on the first round, it counts as a "surprise" but this is my own homebrewing, because I am lazy had dislike the way D&D 5e does a Surprise Round.
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Now i have a Dragon born 3rd level assassin. Now i am saying to my DM that every time i attack from the shadows its a sneak attack/ surprise attack, and there for all that i need to do is hit and it becomes a critical hit my DM says that i can only get a critical hit if i role a nat 20. I thought any sneak attack was a surprise attack and so all that i would need to do is hit and it turns into a critical hit who is right? I thought that the assassin was a one trick pony and that trick was critical hits, am i wrong?
You're both wrong. An assassin scores a critical hit when they attack a creature that is surprised. A creature is not surprised just because you attack it while it can't see you. The DM determines when a creature is surprised, and that condition only lasts for the first round of combat. Therefore, this ability doesn't work after the first round of combat.
But rolling a nat 20 is still a critical hit and i thought that sneak attacking or attacking from the shadows was by it self a sneak or surprise attack so maybe not assassinate would pop off but it would make that attack an auto critical hit the way he is playing it i can get my 2d6 in sneak attack damage but it only does a critical hit if i roll a nat 20 and i thought that sneak attack meant a surprise attack Becouse the attack is not expected
Nah, the way it is written is that surprise is something that last only the very first round. So you would have to get that surprise damage in then. Popping in and out of shadows doesn't allow for surprise logically because the creature knows you are there somewhere, just hiding.
Maybe this will help. In the PHB, surprise is the first set of rules in the combat chapter (hopefully there isn't anything later in the chapter you guys are also getting wrong).
Specific ability text
So this means:
Note that surprise is first round only, and any creature that has had their surprise 'no action' turn, is no longer surprised.
So as the assassin, you want to 1) work with the DM to figure out how you can be sneaky before combat to surprise the combatants and 2) get high initiative rolls.
Basically, expect to get advantage in the first round of combat, but only get the auto-critical in specific situations that you set up to surprise enemies.
So nat 20s are not critical hits then?he was saying that's the only way i can get the critical hit after the first round and that's why i only got 2 in the game so far
Rolling a natural 20 on an attack roll does result in a critical hit. What you are not grasping is that "Sneak Attack" =/= "Critical Hit" =/= "Surprised". These are specific terms that have specific meanings.
Sneak Attack is your Rogue class feature. It lets you roll additional damage die on a successful attack, once per turn, with a Finesse or ranged weapon, if the attack was made at advantage or if an ally was also within 5ft of the creature. This does not mean the attack is an automatic critical hit.
Surprise is a quasi-condition that only comes up on the 1st round of combat, and only under specific conditions that are determined by your DM. Your Assassin feature allows attack rolls only against a surprised creature to be an automatic critical hit.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Normally, natural 20s is the only way to get a critical hit. Assassinate provides you with another situation-specific way to get a critical hit.
Sneak attacks have nothing to do with surprise. They do not cause surprise, so they do not auto-crit on a hit.
Keep in mind that "Surprised" and "Hidden" are two separate concepts.
The surprise state is only possible against a target who does not know that they are currently engaged in combat. The surprised condition only lasts for one round of combat. Once that first round completes, everyone present knows that they are in combat and no one can be surprised for the rest of combat.
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So it seems like to are missunderstanding some wording.
First of all it appears you are reading these two senstances as if they are one
When in fact it is actually two different things.
The next thing that seems to be throwing you off, is you are considering sneak attack as a surprise attack, which it is not. Technically a more precise name for sneak attack would be something more in line with a targeted hit. Basically you take the time to find a weakness and aim for it, such as the gap between the shoulders and neck where armor is left off to allow the users head to move around, its not really sneaky at all. I've played an Inquisitive Rogue that basically never hid once and used sneak attack all the time. To be fair, its a poorly named ability for the mechanics it used.
A surprise attack is way more specific than simply not being seen or noticed, its a special round in which you as the players get to go, but anyone who is "surprised" skill their turns, even if they are before you. I am honestly not a fan of this mechanic and have generally ruled that as long as you go before the character on the first round, it counts as a "surprise" but this is my own homebrewing, because I am lazy had dislike the way D&D 5e does a Surprise Round.