I am a player in this game so before anyone says to ask my DM I will inform everyone that I will be asking my DM about this. However, my group is full of noob players where we hardly know the rules. I have found myself acting as a sort of rules lawyer that everyone in the group (Including our DM) will ask on how certain rulings should be handled based on the rules. Every time I end with some sort of phrasing that indicates it is to my best understanding, but the final decision lies with the DM. I have also apologized about this and she encourages me acting as this sort of "Rules Lawyer" as it takes some of the stress off of her in regards to how to handle the ruling of situations and lets her focus more on the actual game-play in order to keep things interesting. As I want to DM at some point I want to have a thorough understanding of how this works, but I also want to throw a curve ball to my current DM while we are all in the low levels in order to help her get the experience of bizarre things before we hit the later levels and someone pulls something real crazy out of left field.
I will discuss this with my DM, but I want to have enough information to work with so that when I discuss it I can explain my understanding, as well as other ways of interpreting the ruling of said spell and spell types.
That being said, lets get to the spell in question - Witch Bolt. I'm going to just paste the description for the spell here for my own personal reference for future comments.
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A beam of crackling, blue energy lances out toward a creature within range, forming a sustained arc of lightning between you and the target. Make a ranged spell attack against that creature. On a hit, the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically. The spell ends if you use your action to do anything else. The spell also ends if the target is ever outside the spell’s range or if it has total cover from you.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the initial damage increases by 1d12 for each slot level above 1st.
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My character is an Eldritch Knight (Fighter Archetype) Level 3 With an Int Modifier of +1 atm.
1) When I cast WB (Witch Bolt) at a target with 15 AC, I roll a D20 and add my Proficiency and Intelligence Modifier, Right?
So I roll D20+2(Prof)+1(Int Mod). I roll a 14 -> 17, beats the AC of the target.
2) The text of the spell indicates that I can concentrate on the spell to deal the 1D12 lightning damage each turn that the target is within range, not in cover, and I am able to hold the concentration. Right?
3) How do I handle rolling for Concentration on a spell like this? I know that I take the chance of loosing concentration if I take damage or something has some sort of effect on me (Slapped by Mage Hand) but what dice with what modifier do I roll against what DC?
4) The spell only lists one attack roll against the target, so if its rolled and beats, then the channel holds and I don't need to re-roll the attack dice again or use an additional spell slot to keep the spell cast, Right?
5) If I roll a Nat 20 on the dice, game rules indicate that the damage gets doubled in some way. We are going with you roll twice as much damage dice as the spell calls for. So does that Nat 20 carry over into every subsequent turn? So would I be rolling 2d12 every turn? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
6) The spell says "the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration." Does this only work for my turn or is it intended as the Action of my turn. My character is a fighter, so he has the Action Surge trait. Can I technically use my Action Surge to get an additional action to Double the number of Damage Dice I roll for the spell for a turn as it gives me to Actions and holding the channel of the spell requires an Action? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
7) I plan on taking a point in Rouge at lvl 4. The rogue has the Sneak attack trait which lets them roll an additional 1d6 when they attack a target that is preocupied/fighting/distracted/dealing with something else or if I have advantage on the attack. If they are attacking one of my allies, then I hit them with WB, Do I get the Sneak Attack Damage? Does this work for any of my spells or is it a trait that only works with weapons that deal basic damage such as swords, knives, crossbow bolts, ect? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
8) Is there anything unique about this spell that I am missing that is common for new players? Me and my friends are still new to the game and our schedules make it hard to set up games, so we are kinda trying to figure it out on our own until life decides to finally settle down a bit. With her running the campaign, I'm doing what I can to keep up with the rules to help back seat drive things in order to keep the game balanced so everyone (Players and DM) are still able to have a good time and enjoy the game.
Thanks in advance for all the feedback and input everyone.
2. Yes, and you must use your action to do so and the target cannot ever be more than 30 feet away from you while the spell is active.
3. Whenever you are concentrating on a spell and you take damage, you need to make a concentration check. This is a Constitution saving throw. The DC for this check is 10 or half of the total damage you just took, whichever is higher. So if you take 8 damage, half of that is 4. 4 is less than 10, so the DC is 10. If you take 26 damage in one attack, half of that is 13. 13 is greater than 10, so the DC is 13.
4. Correct
5. This is a tough one to answer as I do not know how to rule it. I think the crit damage only applies on the first damage roll for it.
6. In this case, since action surge specifically gives you another action, I will say that yes you could do it. I would recommend saving action surge though, since Witch Bolt is not one of the strongest spells out there.
7. No, you cannot get sneak attack on spells. Sneak attack specifies that the weapon must have the finesse tag or be a ranged weapon attack. Sneak attack can only activate on a limited number of spells. And part of those spells requires making a melee weapon attack (shadow blade, green flame blade, booming blade). Personally, I would advise against taking a multiclass dip until after level 5, that way you can get your ASI at level 4 and get extra attack at level 5.
8. There is nothing really that special about the spell, except that a lot of people consider it really bad. Because it only deals 1d12 damage at first level, it requires you to constantly use your action on each of your turns to activate it and keep it active, and the target can never move more than 30 feet away from you or else the spell drops.
Just a couple more notes... concentration cannot be broken by being slapped with Mage Hand. Mage Hand specifically cannot be used as an attack, thus it cannot deal the damage necessary to break concentration.
As well, the additional damage dealt by Witch Bolt each round is not affected by a Critical from the initial attack. After the first attack lands the additional damage dealt by Witch bolt is no longer considered as part of that initial attack... instead it is a unique action unto itself that you are able to take each round after, as long as you meet the conditions listed in the spell description. Also, keep in mind that if you use a higher level spell slot to cast Witch Bolt, it's only the first hit that benefits from the additional damage... each round after the first is still a single d12 of damage.
Witch Bolt isn't a terrible low level spell, especially for a class that doesn't get a lot of Spell slots, but it quickly gets outclassed as you level up.
That being said, lets get to the spell in question - Witch Bolt. I'm going to just paste the description for the spell here for my own personal reference for future comments.
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A beam of crackling, blue energy lances out toward a creature within range, forming a sustained arc of lightning between you and the target. Make a ranged spell attack against that creature. On a hit, the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically. The spell ends if you use your action to do anything else. The spell also ends if the target is ever outside the spell’s range or if it has total cover from you.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the initial damage increases by 1d12 for each slot level above 1st.
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My character is an Eldritch Knight (Fighter Archetype) Level 3 With an Int Modifier of +1 atm.
1) When I cast WB (Witch Bolt) at a target with 15 AC, I roll a D20 and add my Proficiency and Intelligence Modifier, Right?
So I roll D20+2(Prof)+1(Int Mod). I roll a 14 -> 17, beats the AC of the target.
2) The text of the spell indicates that I can concentrate on the spell to deal the 1D12 lightning damage each turn that the target is within range, not in cover, and I am able to hold the concentration. Right?
3) How do I handle rolling for Concentration on a spell like this? I know that I take the chance of loosing concentration if I take damage or something has some sort of effect on me (Slapped by Mage Hand) but what dice with what modifier do I roll against what DC?
4) The spell only lists one attack roll against the target, so if its rolled and beats, then the channel holds and I don't need to re-roll the attack dice again or use an additional spell slot to keep the spell cast, Right?
5) If I roll a Nat 20 on the dice, game rules indicate that the damage gets doubled in some way. We are going with you roll twice as much damage dice as the spell calls for. So does that Nat 20 carry over into every subsequent turn? So would I be rolling 2d12 every turn? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
6) The spell says "the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration." Does this only work for my turn or is it intended as the Action of my turn. My character is a fighter, so he has the Action Surge trait. Can I technically use my Action Surge to get an additional action to Double the number of Damage Dice I roll for the spell for a turn as it gives me to Actions and holding the channel of the spell requires an Action? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
7) I plan on taking a point in Rouge at lvl 4. The rogue has the Sneak attack trait which lets them roll an additional 1d6 when they attack a target that is preocupied/fighting/distracted/dealing with something else or if I have advantage on the attack. If they are attacking one of my allies, then I hit them with WB, Do I get the Sneak Attack Damage? Does this work for any of my spells or is it a trait that only works with weapons that deal basic damage such as swords, knives, crossbow bolts, ect? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
8) Is there anything unique about this spell that I am missing that is common for new players? Me and my friends are still new to the game and our schedules make it hard to set up games, so we are kinda trying to figure it out on our own until life decides to finally settle down a bit. With her running the campaign, I'm doing what I can to keep up with the rules to help back seat drive things in order to keep the game balanced so everyone (Players and DM) are still able to have a good time and enjoy the game.
1) Correct.
2) Correct.
3) Correctly answered by emrfish6. Correctly amended by TransmorpherDDS.
4) Correct.
5) The initial “attack” crits, so yes that damage is doubled. On subsequent turns no “attack roll” is made, so it is impossible to Crit on those.
6) The spell says “and on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically.” So continuing to use the spell requires you to use your action, preventing you from using it for anything else that turn. Yes, you could use Action Surge as that specifically gives you a second Action on your turn. “On your turn, you can take one additional action. Once you use this feature....” Once you hit 5th-level and get Extra Attacks though, you will be able to do way more damage with weapon attacks so....
7) Sneak attack states: “Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.” It could be a magic weapon, it could be a weapon used to cast Green Flame Blade as emrfish6 correctly pointed out, but it must use a ”finesse or ranged weapon.”
d) Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon's breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.
4) Yes, you only need to make an attack roll on the first turn. On subsequent turns you get to use your action to cause 1d12 damage with no roll required.
5) If you roll a Nat 20 on an attack roll, you roll all damage dice for that attack twice, which you seem do be doing correctly. It does not have further affects - on subsequent turns, other effects of the spell are not powered up in any way. You roll 1d12 on subsequent turns regardless of the value on your original attack.
6) The spell says "on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically." You have to keep using your Action to do it.
IMO if you got more actions such as with Action Surge you could keep using them to do that, but I don't think the spell is all clear on that.
7) The sneak attack rules say "Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon." (emphasis mine). Witch bolt is not an attack with a weapon, it is a spell, so it is not eligible for sneak attack.
8. There is nothing really that special about the spell, except that a lot of people consider it really bad. Because it only deals 1d12 damage at first level, it requires you to constantly use your action on each of your turns to activate it and keep it active, and the target can never move more than 30 feet away from you or else the spell drops.
Hope this answers everything you needed answered.
I just thought of something related to one of the specific details you mentioned.... the idea that a target can simply choose to move more than 30 feet away from the caster to break concentration on the spell. Which... yeah, that's true... but I also think that the average enemy wouldn't know that. I remember in one battle I had an opponent get hit with Booming Blade... and once they get hit with the secondary effect of it they just stood still for the rest of combat, because they didn't know how the spell works and failed an INT check to see if they could figure it out.
Although to be fair in this instance, simply running away seems like the natural response most people would have to getting shocked repeatedly with magic lightning.
Wow this got a lot of feed back a lot faster then I was expecting. Firstly, thanks everyone for the quick responses, I wish I could have been on top of this to reply to them as they came in sooner. Secondly, its good to see that all the responses are similar. Having the multiple responses actually helps solidify how the spell works while the slight variation in some of the wording also helps detail the smaller points that would go unnoticed. In the little bit of research that I have done in relation to the spell, it seems that the most common comment following any description or discussion of the spell is that its under powered given its level and how it works. I agree with this entirely. The fact that the lightning has, what seems to be, a really short range, while also having no other sort of static effects seems to really make the spell week. Weak enough that I almost feel like Magic Missile is weaker then it and I consider Magic Missile to be at the top of the list for really weak spells. The text almost makes this ability sound like Sith Lightning from Star Wars, but even that version is much stronger in comparison.
Interesting question for yall. Has anyone considered altering a spell that one of their players wanted in order to make it more relevant? I want to pose this idea to my DM after I go to use it. Thing is, I want to use it once at its core setting first before I make modifications to it. As far as the modifications are concerned, Ill list them here and see what you guys think in relation to how its balanced, as well as my own arguments in relation to why I have chosen said modifications. As I expect this to likely be my ONLY Magic damage for my character, being that he is going to use magic more for situational role play elements and not as a way to just dish out damage, I am putting a decent amount of effort into it and the spell is likely going to be to loaded based on what I have in mind (Via text on how the spell works), while also trying to keep it balanced. That being said, lets begin.
The range of the spell... is left unchanged. For the most part anyway - When targeting a creature of a same size or smaller then the caster, the range remains at around 30ft give or take. If the target is within about 10 ft of the target, the attack roll is rolled with Disadvantage. The idea behind this ties it into the Fighter itself. If the target is within sword cutting distance, it makes sense that natural instincts would kick in and the characters brain would be going something along the lines of "You have a damn sword. He is within hitting distance. SWING YOUR SWORD AT HIM YOU BIG BABOON!!!" If targeting a creature that is larger then you (Intended if the player is playing something small like a gnome attacking a human or a human attacking a, idk, bigger thing) then the cast distance doubles. The idea is that its easier to hit something that is bigger as there is more of a target to attack. No, I don't think that it should get advantage because the creature is larger, but it makes sense that it would be easier to land the hit from farther away.
Movement Reduction - I find it strange that being electrocuted by a continuous stream of magic lighting would not make it hard to do something other then piss yourself. I have never seen anyone pick up a live wire, start getting electrocuted, and then walts to the kitchen to grab a drink. I feel like using this on the target would cause the target to loose half its move speed. I know standing takes half, but in shows whenever the target being attacked by a stream of some sort of energy ability is laying down and getting hit, it always seems to take them a while to get back up. It also seems like being able to move while being electrocuted should be harder.
Disadvantage - This ties into the previous idea. Doing anything other then piss yourself while being electrified seems like a feat in of itself unless your killua from HunterXHunter. So having some sort of disadvantage would make sense. I would put it as a D20 roll to do something is done with disadvantage. Attempting to jump to see how close you can get to the target, attacking with a weapon, casting a spell, ect. Spells that require a save are tricky though since it doesn't require a D20 roll to cast, so I would go with an Arcana check to see if you can focus on the magic long enough to cast a spell that has a saving throw on it. The DC on this I guess would be the same as anything else with a DC. 10+Prof+Int which would be 13 for my character [10+2+1]. This would be against the targets Int I think given that that is the stat they are trying to beat. Easiest way to handle it is just to have it against the targets Con since the spell does attack their hp, but I don't want to make it that simple.
Crowd Control - As I mentioned, Force Lightning has the ability to move someone around the battlefield. This does seem a bit to powerful though given that there is other spells that do the same thing, so I will be giving it some debuff ideas as well. The DC the target has to beat would probably be the same DC as the rest of the spell, so 10+Prof+Int = 13 for my character. (God I can't get away from that unlucky number). The range that the target can be moved would be... what about 10*IntMod? Given that My Int Mod is just +1, I would only be able to forcibly move the target up to 10ft in a given direction. I feel that the saving throw for this would be either Dex, Str, or Con, not to sure on this. Using this effect on a target of a larger size I think would either A) Give the target advantage on the saving throw or B) Drop the DC of said saving throw. Maybe 5+Prof+Int which would be 8 for me. Finally, the big ticket item. Using this effect ends the spell. Given that I'm using my action to try and move the target, my mind is split between holding the spell active and shoving said target to a new location. This would technically let me try to grab something and fling it across the room using lighting. Would I be rolling to attack the box if I did this and how would the ruling of that work?
Critical Hit - The original understanding of this is that the first damage dice roll gets the double damage and the rest is unchanged. I am thinking of being able to use the crit to gain a bonus to one of the skills listed above in relation to the spell.
- If I roll a crit and just want the bonus damage, easy, roll twice the dice for the first roll and the rest of the ability remains unchanged.
- If I roll a crit, I can choose to actually hold the target still for longer and apply some sort of harder buff to make it difficult to use abilities for a short time. Maybe a D4 to see how many rounds this lasts. Its kind of strong, maybe to strong, so I really want the dice for this time setting to be as small as possible without just resorting to a coin. Only other way I know to reduce the targets ability further then just giving disadvantage would be to remove the use of all modifiers to any rolls they make while the crit is active. So if they want to roll to hit they have roll the D20 and add nothing to it.
- If I roll a crit, for moving the target I would just multiply the distance that said target could be moved by 2 letting me double the distance and maybe the target gets disadvantage on the saving throw to resist the moving effect. I figured that the target shouldn't get disadvantage on trying to resist this spell directly because they are trying to fight back against what is actively attacking them.
Damage - This is where the spell struggles the most at its core. My reason for wanting to choose this spell is that all of my other spells are situational and are not directly intended for combat use. When choosing a magic attack spell, I wanted something that could be cast at a distance letting me take the most of said magic and I wanted it to be able to last more then one turn given the very limited number of spell slots that the Eldritch Knight (EK) has to work with. So I am thinking about going the rout that the cantrips follow in this case. The spell gains bonus damage at a certain level. The spell does 1d12 as its base. Other cantrips get the ability to increase the damage delt by the spell by one damage dice at levels 5, 11, and 17. So at 18th level this spell would deal 4d12 per round. Yes, this means that I can turn the spell into a power house move by using it at a higher spell slot as well, but as was explained.
Also, keep in mind that if you use a higher level spell slot to cast Witch Bolt, it's only the first hit that benefits from the additional damage... each round after the first is still a single d12 of damage.
So I could deal an additional die or two of damage using this spell at a higher level on the first turn, but then it gets knocked back down. Again though, My intent was for this to esentally be my damaging ability for most of this character's game time. So although I may not be using it much due to me trying to stay up front in the fight, I wouldn't be surprised to have my DM throw me a curve ball by having us fight a flying creature that I can't reach. Given that I know more about the game then most of the other players so far (I helped 3 of them make their characters, the forth constantly asks me for advice, the fifth I think actually has a really solid head on their shoulders, and the sixth i'm pretty confident just tries to make up shit that he thinks he can do and convince the DM to let him do it on the spur of the moment without actually figuring out weather or not it would work, ex. throwing a Lance [not a throwable weapon] that has an enemy skewered on it at a different creature to try and pin them together. Can be done, But since said person is a dwarf fighting 2 Aackokra, it seems like that would be a lot harder then it actually was) I want this to be my sort of fall back spell to help prevent a TPK.
I think thats pretty much it. It adds a lot into the spell and given that the spell is set to last for a minute (10 Rounds of combat) it probably needs to have its active time shortened as well, But I think there is enough here to keep it a relevant spell while without eliminating its Channel effect. Maybe remove one round of combat from the spells chanable time if it is used at a spell slot 1 above its current lvl. So 9 rounds if used at a lvl 2 slot. 8 rounds if used at a lvl 3 slot, ect.
Let me know what yall think, your thoughts and ideas, and what you all would likely see from an ability like this if it was modified for this class (or another) to help keep it as a relevant option.
Magic Missile is not weak. It has a 120-ft. range, requires absolutely no material components (so you can be literally naked and unarmed and still cast it) does Force Damage which absolutely nobody has resistance to, and only one creature in all of D&D has immunity from. Oh, and it automatically hits. 😳🤯 And it can target a different creature with each bolt....
Right, but they are only D4's. I get its versatility in that it can target multiple different creatures, but I do think that I was underrating the spell a bit just because it had the smaller hit die, which is wrong so I apologize on that point. I also did not realize that it was an automatic hit. Thought you still had to roll to land the hit, good to know, thx lamSposta.
Sure. Keep in mind that damage type is almost if not more important than damage die some times. Half the Monsters Manual has resistance to fire damage for example, but Force, Radiant, and Psychic, damages are far less resisted.
That being said, lets get to the spell in question - Witch Bolt. I'm going to just paste the description for the spell here for my own personal reference for future comments.
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A beam of crackling, blue energy lances out toward a creature within range, forming a sustained arc of lightning between you and the target. Make a ranged spell attack against that creature. On a hit, the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically. The spell ends if you use your action to do anything else. The spell also ends if the target is ever outside the spell’s range or if it has total cover from you.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the initial damage increases by 1d12 for each slot level above 1st.
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<snip again>
6) The spell says "the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration." Does this only work for my turn or is it intended as the Action of my turn. My character is a fighter, so he has the Action Surge trait. Can I technically use my Action Surge to get an additional action to Double the number of Damage Dice I roll for the spell for a turn as it gives me to Actions and holding the channel of the spell requires an Action? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
A point of order on #6. I believe yes, you could use your action surge to double-tap someone with Witch Bolt. However, I think if you tried to use the action surge to get in a melee attack along with a WB zap (or anything else that's NOT a double-tap) the spell would end.
That being said, lets get to the spell in question - Witch Bolt. I'm going to just paste the description for the spell here for my own personal reference for future comments.
-------------------
A beam of crackling, blue energy lances out toward a creature within range, forming a sustained arc of lightning between you and the target. Make a ranged spell attack against that creature. On a hit, the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically. The spell ends if you use your action to do anything else. The spell also ends if the target is ever outside the spell’s range or if it has total cover from you.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the initial damage increases by 1d12 for each slot level above 1st.
-------------------
<snip again>
6) The spell says "the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration." Does this only work for my turn or is it intended as the Action of my turn. My character is a fighter, so he has the Action Surge trait. Can I technically use my Action Surge to get an additional action to Double the number of Damage Dice I roll for the spell for a turn as it gives me to Actions and holding the channel of the spell requires an Action? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
A point of order on #6. I believe yes, you could use your action surge to double-tap someone with Witch Bolt. However, I think if you tried to use the action surge to get in a melee attack along with a WB zap (or anything else that's NOT a double-tap) the spell would end.
Interesting situation. I'm inclined to agree that Action Surge can be flexed for a double-tap by RAW, even if it isn't RAI. This is one of those times where 5e isn't great about using precise, consistent terminology, and opens the door to things the writer probably discounted as ever being a possibility. Most features, and nearly all spells, seem to be written under the pretense that "one action" is the natural hard cap for a creature, so anything that calls for you to "use your action" for an effect on a subsequent turn is colloquially identical to "once per turn/round" in most circumstances.
It's understandable that a writer would not have considered the fact that someone could MC to get Action Surge, yet all they would need to have inserted is a "once per turn/round" clause to make it perfectly clear in all situations. They didn't, so it does work by RAW. Using your action (including via Action Surge) for anything else definitely ends the spell.
RAI may be a different story, and I have no strong opinion one way or another.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
That being said, lets get to the spell in question - Witch Bolt. I'm going to just paste the description for the spell here for my own personal reference for future comments.
-------------------
A beam of crackling, blue energy lances out toward a creature within range, forming a sustained arc of lightning between you and the target. Make a ranged spell attack against that creature. On a hit, the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically. The spell ends if you use your action to do anything else. The spell also ends if the target is ever outside the spell’s range or if it has total cover from you.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the initial damage increases by 1d12 for each slot level above 1st.
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<snip again>
6) The spell says "the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration." Does this only work for my turn or is it intended as the Action of my turn. My character is a fighter, so he has the Action Surge trait. Can I technically use my Action Surge to get an additional action to Double the number of Damage Dice I roll for the spell for a turn as it gives me to Actions and holding the channel of the spell requires an Action? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
A point of order on #6. I believe yes, you could use your action surge to double-tap someone with Witch Bolt. However, I think if you tried to use the action surge to get in a melee attack along with a WB zap (or anything else that's NOT a double-tap) the spell would end.
Interesting situation. I'm inclined to agree that Action Surge can be flexed for a double-tap by RAW, even if it isn't RAI. This is one of those times where 5e isn't great about using precise, consistent terminology, and opens the door to things the writer probably discounted as ever being a possibility. Most features, and nearly all spells, seem to be written under the pretense that "one action" is the natural hard cap for a creature, so anything that calls for you to "use your action" for an effect on a subsequent turn is colloquially identical to "once per turn/round" in most circumstances.
It's understandable that a writer would not have considered the fact that someone could MC to get Action Surge, yet all they would need to have inserted is a "once per turn/round" clause to make it perfectly clear in all situations. They didn't, so it does work by RAW. Using your action (including via Action Surge) for anything else definitely ends the spell.
RAI may be a different story, and I have no strong opinion one way or another.
This is one of those situations where I think that not having that clause is clear and consistent. You are straight up locked into this until it drops. Go ahead, action surge, double tap it, but if you don’t use it you lose it so choose wisely.
As an addendum to the Action Surge conversation, Haste also gives it's target an additional action. That action is specifically limited by the spell and would cause Witch Bolt to end.
Witch Bolt does 1d12 or 6.5 average damage per round, if the attack hits, if the caster can maintain distance and concentration, and if the creature has enough hit points to survive multiple rounds. Over the course of 1 minute (10 rounds) that would be 65 average damage. However, the chances of a battle lasting that long with enough targets to preoccupy the other party members enough to allow witch bolt to actually go off to max is slim. Most battles seem to last 3-4 rounds max, meaning 19.5-26 hp assuming concentration is held, etc.
Compare that to Magic Missile. 1d4+1 damage per dart is a minimum of 2, a maximum of 5 and an average of 2.5+1= 3.5 damage per dart. That's at least 6, at most 15, and on average 10.5. The average damage is the equivalent of 1d6 per dart or 3d6 total damage, but the spread is narrowed (higher floor but lower ceiling). In addition to the other things that were mentioned, the ability to guarantee 6 damage can be huge particularly with high AC opponents. With your lower int modifier, magic missile might be a better option for a spell damage even if it seems like the damage is lacking.
Consider that you can match the damage with a d12 or 2d6 melee weapon and add your strength modifier. Assuming a +3 strength modifier, you'll be doing 3-3.5 more average damage with those attacks. Sure, you can avoid the additional attack rolls and attack at range, but all of those attacks can crit. You could also drop to a d6 weapon attack and do the same damage as the spell. That's a Javelin, which you can throw 30 ft with a regular attack and be 10% more likely to hit.
You mentioned wanting to pick up a level of rogue. Perhaps you have a dex build instead of a strength build to accommodate that. The rapier deals 1d8+dex mod and stacks with sneak attack. The longbow or shortbow both fall in line with Witchbolt damage wise, hit at a better rate (particularly if you took the archery fighting style), from farther away, each attack can crit and stack with sneak attack.
One thing that I thought of while considering the Haste vs Action Surge aspect is that Witch Bolt does say using your action for anything other than triggering the damage will cause the spell to end. It says nothing of your bonus action being used or your reaction. Add those items to your discussion with your DM just to cover your bases. The spell specifically says action, so any bonus actions not tied to the Attack action or other action oriented prerequisites should be fair game along with using reactions for AoOs and spells like Shield. Bonus action spells would also be fair game on the subsequent rounds, since Witch Bolt is only cast on the first round.
I know that a reasonable chunk of this was spent offering alternatives to Witch Bolt, but that doesn't mean that you can't have fun with the spell. Playing up the reasons why you are using the spell instead of doing something more effective can sometimes lead to more fun than simply doing the most effective thing that the character can do. Use the information you have here to inform your decision, but choose what makes sense for your character.
Witch Bolt does 1d12 or 6.5 average damage per round, if the attack hits, if the caster can maintain distance and concentration, and if the creature has enough hit points to survive multiple rounds. Over the course of 1 minute (10 rounds) that would be 65 average damage. However, the chances of a battle lasting that long with enough targets to preoccupy the other party members enough to allow witch bolt to actually go off to max is slim. Most battles seem to last 3-4 rounds max, meaning 19.5-26 hp assuming concentration is held, etc.
Compare that to Magic Missile. 1d4+1 damage per dart is a minimum of 2, a maximum of 5 and an average of 2.5+1= 3.5 damage per dart. That's at least 6, at most 15, and on average 10.5. The average damage is the equivalent of 1d6 per dart or 3d6 total damage, but the spread is narrowed (higher floor but lower ceiling). In addition to the other things that were mentioned, the ability to guarantee 6 damage can be huge particularly with high AC opponents. With your lower int modifier, magic missile might be a better option for a spell damage even if it seems like the damage is lacking.
..
One thing that has gone mentioned but cannot be overstated in the discussion of Magic Missile vs other damage spells is the actual effect of having to roll to hit. A spell that does 19.5-26 damage on average per hit does effectively far less than that; with a~60% chance to hit, it only does ~12-16 damage on average per cast (and it is all or nothing). Unless a creature has some feature that makes it immune to magic missiles, then every cast of that spell does its damage, albeit still somewhat less. Witch Bolt just breaks even at the third round, though; so if you don't average 3-4 rounds of damage with it, you'd be better off with MM.
It really seems like Magic Missile is the go to damage spell for all spell casters. I'm going to explain why it is sort of my second pick before going on because it looks like everyone thinks that I hate Magic Missile and that i'm trying to avoid it and thats not entirely the case. When I hit lvl 4 I will have 2 Cantrips, 4 lvl 1 spells, and 3 spell slots to work with until I hit lvl 7. I want my magic to be more situational to help with the role play elements of the game, so my casting will be more out of combat then in combat.
Cantrips - Mage Hand(because duh) Dancing Lights.
Not going to explain mage hand. We have 3 of our 6 players that I KNOW don't have dark vision. This would let me light a path for the entire party or just keep the area around us lit while we do various things. Negates the darkness problem and seems to have some other role play elements in it as well.
Find Familiar is for the role play side of it. I will be going with a hawk because we already have someone with a cat. This will create a sort of Assassins Creed idea letting me scout an area to determine what the combat encounter will be like. I'm a fighter, I want to plan tactically.
Shield and Absorb Elements is for the defensive side of things. While Shield will just let me up my AC when I really need it, Absorb Elements will let me take any damage that would be delt via a spell caster and convert it into damage for me, acting as both defense and offense. It also says that it lessens the effects of the damage I receive, How does that transfer into dice rolls and number calculations?
Witch Bolt winds up being my only offensive spell. Because my other spells of this level are intended for defensive purposes, and I only have 4 spell slots for combat, Its the idea of what happens if i'm found in a longer combat encounter that I am at a range for. I do have a crossbow to use, but for only the number of shots that I have bolts. I'm giving the offensive spell I have one spell slot per combat so that I have slots left over to use allowing me to ensure that I can take a hit and defend my team. As a result of this, I want something I can get the most of. So i'm not looking for a one off. I want something that has the play making potential to either hold the target still so my team can go ham (Snare) or something that would let me pump out the most damage I could get out of casting the spell once. Having a spell I can channel helps me do this if I can only cast it once. Magic Missile will give me 3 darts that fire off at any and every target I choose and are guaranteed to hit, which makes it my second runner up, but that is 3d4 and then the spell is done. If I land Witch Bolt then its 1d12 for every round I can keep it active. Assuming I can hold it for 3 rounds (We have two other players that can fight up front) then It can deal 3d12 damage in its casting time. It just takes me 3 rounds to cast it, and assuming we are forced to fight at a distance, it makes my long sword kinda useless even though I still have the crossbow to fall back on. And throwing lightning around sounds more fun and like it could look cooler then throwing out a few darts of energy.
I'm not dissing on Magic Missile, but its my second runner up just based on preference right now. Good chance that I will switch the two spells out once in a while as I lvl up, but I'm looking for a single damage dealing spell that I can use for a variety of elements. as it happens right now, both of these are falling kinda short on that as they are just damage dice and nothing more. I kinda want the role play more then anything and that is what is making force lighting sound good atm.
I would like to preface by stating that It’s your character so you should do whatever you think is most fun for you. I do however have some observations from my own experiences playing an Eldritch Knight.
You took Mage Hand for RP and to carry a light, so why do you need Dancing Lights too? You don’t need the hand to move the Dancing Lights after all. Besides, if you need it you could always buy a Driftglobe. Don’t get me wrong, I love Dancing Lights, but when you have so few cantrips, you might want to diversify so you can get more out of your two cantrips. Might I suggest Lightning Lure? One of the advantages is you can pull enemies into melee with you. That would give you the ability to pull enemies away from your squishy allies like the Wizards, and lock them in combat with you instead. That not only lets you protect your friends better, but it could also give you more chances to attack (ya know, the fighter thing) because of opportunity attacks. And since it’s a Cantrip, you can use it as often as needed.
You took both Shield and Absorb Elements. Both are great spells, but when I was playing an Eldritch Knight I found myself not casting them just in case I needed the slot for something more useful. I will say I found Absorb Elements more useful at times because it is both defense and attack. Plus, with good armor my AC was not such an issue for my character. Just my 2 cp. (To answer your question, Absorb Elements gives you “resistance” to the damage type, that means you only take 1/2 of the damage rounded down. If you would take 12 or 13 points of lightning damage as an example, you would only take 6 instead. You then get to add 1d6 damage of that type, in the case of our example Lightning, on your next melee attack. That includes melee-weapon attacks, melee-spell attacks, and unarmed melee attacks like punching.)
If I only had 3 spell slots, and I was thinking of taking an attack spell, it would never be [Tooltip Not Found] because the chance of missing and wasting the spell slot is too high for my tastes, between %40-%50 depending on your INT modifier. I would strongly consider either Magic Missile because it’s a can’t miss, sure fire, guaranteed thing. Alternatively I would go for a spell where I don’t have to hit, but the enemy has to save instead, maybe the ever popular [/spell]Burning Hands[/spell]. The advantage there is I still can’t miss, even if the enemy makes their saving throw, they still take 1/2 damage which is better than no damage.
As the fighter, I would personally avoid spells with Concentration. You’re a tank, the bad guys will attack you, and every attack that lands increases your chance to fail a concentration check and therefore loose the spell. Even with a high CON, the more times you have to roll, the higher the probability that you will fail a check.
True enough. The ability to get that guaranteed damage is sweet and is the reason that Witch Bolt looks like a good spell. It's better for a full caster who will be building their spellcasting stat for that first attack and doesn't have as good of options for the melee attacks. It's better for the gish builds that are fighting piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing resistant or immune enemies and there aren't enough magic weapons to go around or enough other magic spells to take down the creature. For an EK, it's ok for the first few rounds though something like Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade is a little better because of the potential riders, the fact that the attack modifier is added to the damage (of the melee attack), and the likelihood that the chance to hit will be better for any given attack. Each attack having the possibility of a crit is offset by the fact that every additional "hit" from Witch Bolt is guaranteed, but not being able to switch targets can be problematic, particularly if the EK is filling the tank role for the party. However, if you need several attacks against a creature, can manage to get advantage for only one round, and will TPK otherwise; Witch Bolt shines in that type of encounter IF it hits that first attack.
You can just buy to spells on DDB instead of the whole book. All three of those spells plus 1 more are found in the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, you can buy just those four spells for I think $4-$6 USD., and the Driftglobe I think is a magic item in the DMG, so the DM should have access to it. One thing about Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade is you make a single weapon attack as part of the casting, but once you hit 5th-level, you will have access to more attacks per round. With a solid magic weapon, you might do more damage simply by attacking more often so it’s a trade off.
I am a player in this game so before anyone says to ask my DM I will inform everyone that I will be asking my DM about this. However, my group is full of noob players where we hardly know the rules. I have found myself acting as a sort of rules lawyer that everyone in the group (Including our DM) will ask on how certain rulings should be handled based on the rules. Every time I end with some sort of phrasing that indicates it is to my best understanding, but the final decision lies with the DM. I have also apologized about this and she encourages me acting as this sort of "Rules Lawyer" as it takes some of the stress off of her in regards to how to handle the ruling of situations and lets her focus more on the actual game-play in order to keep things interesting. As I want to DM at some point I want to have a thorough understanding of how this works, but I also want to throw a curve ball to my current DM while we are all in the low levels in order to help her get the experience of bizarre things before we hit the later levels and someone pulls something real crazy out of left field.
I will discuss this with my DM, but I want to have enough information to work with so that when I discuss it I can explain my understanding, as well as other ways of interpreting the ruling of said spell and spell types.
That being said, lets get to the spell in question - Witch Bolt. I'm going to just paste the description for the spell here for my own personal reference for future comments.
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A beam of crackling, blue energy lances out toward a creature within range, forming a sustained arc of lightning between you and the target. Make a ranged spell attack against that creature. On a hit, the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically. The spell ends if you use your action to do anything else. The spell also ends if the target is ever outside the spell’s range or if it has total cover from you.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the initial damage increases by 1d12 for each slot level above 1st.
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My character is an Eldritch Knight (Fighter Archetype) Level 3 With an Int Modifier of +1 atm.
1) When I cast WB (Witch Bolt) at a target with 15 AC, I roll a D20 and add my Proficiency and Intelligence Modifier, Right?
So I roll D20+2(Prof)+1(Int Mod). I roll a 14 -> 17, beats the AC of the target.
2) The text of the spell indicates that I can concentrate on the spell to deal the 1D12 lightning damage each turn that the target is within range, not in cover, and I am able to hold the concentration. Right?
3) How do I handle rolling for Concentration on a spell like this? I know that I take the chance of loosing concentration if I take damage or something has some sort of effect on me (Slapped by Mage Hand) but what dice with what modifier do I roll against what DC?
4) The spell only lists one attack roll against the target, so if its rolled and beats, then the channel holds and I don't need to re-roll the attack dice again or use an additional spell slot to keep the spell cast, Right?
5) If I roll a Nat 20 on the dice, game rules indicate that the damage gets doubled in some way. We are going with you roll twice as much damage dice as the spell calls for. So does that Nat 20 carry over into every subsequent turn? So would I be rolling 2d12 every turn? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
6) The spell says "the target takes 1d12 lightning damage, and on each of your turns for the duration." Does this only work for my turn or is it intended as the Action of my turn. My character is a fighter, so he has the Action Surge trait. Can I technically use my Action Surge to get an additional action to Double the number of Damage Dice I roll for the spell for a turn as it gives me to Actions and holding the channel of the spell requires an Action? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
7) I plan on taking a point in Rouge at lvl 4. The rogue has the Sneak attack trait which lets them roll an additional 1d6 when they attack a target that is preocupied/fighting/distracted/dealing with something else or if I have advantage on the attack. If they are attacking one of my allies, then I hit them with WB, Do I get the Sneak Attack Damage? Does this work for any of my spells or is it a trait that only works with weapons that deal basic damage such as swords, knives, crossbow bolts, ect? (This is a big one I need clarified for me and my DM)
8) Is there anything unique about this spell that I am missing that is common for new players? Me and my friends are still new to the game and our schedules make it hard to set up games, so we are kinda trying to figure it out on our own until life decides to finally settle down a bit. With her running the campaign, I'm doing what I can to keep up with the rules to help back seat drive things in order to keep the game balanced so everyone (Players and DM) are still able to have a good time and enjoy the game.
Thanks in advance for all the feedback and input everyone.
1. Correct
2. Yes, and you must use your action to do so and the target cannot ever be more than 30 feet away from you while the spell is active.
3. Whenever you are concentrating on a spell and you take damage, you need to make a concentration check. This is a Constitution saving throw. The DC for this check is 10 or half of the total damage you just took, whichever is higher. So if you take 8 damage, half of that is 4. 4 is less than 10, so the DC is 10. If you take 26 damage in one attack, half of that is 13. 13 is greater than 10, so the DC is 13.
4. Correct
5. This is a tough one to answer as I do not know how to rule it. I think the crit damage only applies on the first damage roll for it.
6. In this case, since action surge specifically gives you another action, I will say that yes you could do it. I would recommend saving action surge though, since Witch Bolt is not one of the strongest spells out there.
7. No, you cannot get sneak attack on spells. Sneak attack specifies that the weapon must have the finesse tag or be a ranged weapon attack. Sneak attack can only activate on a limited number of spells. And part of those spells requires making a melee weapon attack (shadow blade, green flame blade, booming blade). Personally, I would advise against taking a multiclass dip until after level 5, that way you can get your ASI at level 4 and get extra attack at level 5.
8. There is nothing really that special about the spell, except that a lot of people consider it really bad. Because it only deals 1d12 damage at first level, it requires you to constantly use your action on each of your turns to activate it and keep it active, and the target can never move more than 30 feet away from you or else the spell drops.
Hope this answers everything you needed answered.
Just a couple more notes... concentration cannot be broken by being slapped with Mage Hand. Mage Hand specifically cannot be used as an attack, thus it cannot deal the damage necessary to break concentration.
As well, the additional damage dealt by Witch Bolt each round is not affected by a Critical from the initial attack. After the first attack lands the additional damage dealt by Witch bolt is no longer considered as part of that initial attack... instead it is a unique action unto itself that you are able to take each round after, as long as you meet the conditions listed in the spell description. Also, keep in mind that if you use a higher level spell slot to cast Witch Bolt, it's only the first hit that benefits from the additional damage... each round after the first is still a single d12 of damage.
Witch Bolt isn't a terrible low level spell, especially for a class that doesn't get a lot of Spell slots, but it quickly gets outclassed as you level up.
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1) Correct.
2) Correct.
3) Correctly answered by emrfish6. Correctly amended by TransmorpherDDS.
4) Correct.
5) The initial “attack” crits, so yes that damage is doubled. On subsequent turns no “attack roll” is made, so it is impossible to Crit on those.
6) The spell says “and on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically.” So continuing to use the spell requires you to use your action, preventing you from using it for anything else that turn. Yes, you could use Action Surge as that specifically gives you a second Action on your turn. “On your turn, you can take one additional action. Once you use this feature....” Once you hit 5th-level and get Extra Attacks though, you will be able to do way more damage with weapon attacks so....
7) Sneak attack states: “Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.” It could be a magic weapon, it could be a weapon used to cast Green Flame Blade as emrfish6 correctly pointed out, but it must use a ”finesse or ranged weapon.”
8) I think that covers it.
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1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Same as concentration for any spell: see https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#Concentration .
The things that can break concentration are listed there:
a) choosing to stop concentrating on the spell
b) casting another spell that requires concentration
c) being Incapacitated or killed (see the Incapacitated condition: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/appendix-a-conditions . Other conditions such as paralyzed, petrified, stunned, unconscious also include being incapacitated)
d) Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon's breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.
4) Yes, you only need to make an attack roll on the first turn. On subsequent turns you get to use your action to cause 1d12 damage with no roll required.5) If you roll a Nat 20 on an attack roll, you roll all damage dice for that attack twice, which you seem do be doing correctly. It does not have further affects - on subsequent turns, other effects of the spell are not powered up in any way. You roll 1d12 on subsequent turns regardless of the value on your original attack.
6) The spell says "on each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d12 lightning damage to the target automatically." You have to keep using your Action to do it.8) Nothing about Witch Bolt specifically.
I just thought of something related to one of the specific details you mentioned.... the idea that a target can simply choose to move more than 30 feet away from the caster to break concentration on the spell. Which... yeah, that's true... but I also think that the average enemy wouldn't know that. I remember in one battle I had an opponent get hit with Booming Blade... and once they get hit with the secondary effect of it they just stood still for the rest of combat, because they didn't know how the spell works and failed an INT check to see if they could figure it out.
Although to be fair in this instance, simply running away seems like the natural response most people would have to getting shocked repeatedly with magic lightning.
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Wow this got a lot of feed back a lot faster then I was expecting. Firstly, thanks everyone for the quick responses, I wish I could have been on top of this to reply to them as they came in sooner. Secondly, its good to see that all the responses are similar. Having the multiple responses actually helps solidify how the spell works while the slight variation in some of the wording also helps detail the smaller points that would go unnoticed. In the little bit of research that I have done in relation to the spell, it seems that the most common comment following any description or discussion of the spell is that its under powered given its level and how it works. I agree with this entirely. The fact that the lightning has, what seems to be, a really short range, while also having no other sort of static effects seems to really make the spell week. Weak enough that I almost feel like Magic Missile is weaker then it and I consider Magic Missile to be at the top of the list for really weak spells. The text almost makes this ability sound like Sith Lightning from Star Wars, but even that version is much stronger in comparison.
Interesting question for yall. Has anyone considered altering a spell that one of their players wanted in order to make it more relevant? I want to pose this idea to my DM after I go to use it. Thing is, I want to use it once at its core setting first before I make modifications to it. As far as the modifications are concerned, Ill list them here and see what you guys think in relation to how its balanced, as well as my own arguments in relation to why I have chosen said modifications. As I expect this to likely be my ONLY Magic damage for my character, being that he is going to use magic more for situational role play elements and not as a way to just dish out damage, I am putting a decent amount of effort into it and the spell is likely going to be to loaded based on what I have in mind (Via text on how the spell works), while also trying to keep it balanced. That being said, lets begin.
The range of the spell... is left unchanged. For the most part anyway - When targeting a creature of a same size or smaller then the caster, the range remains at around 30ft give or take. If the target is within about 10 ft of the target, the attack roll is rolled with Disadvantage. The idea behind this ties it into the Fighter itself. If the target is within sword cutting distance, it makes sense that natural instincts would kick in and the characters brain would be going something along the lines of "You have a damn sword. He is within hitting distance. SWING YOUR SWORD AT HIM YOU BIG BABOON!!!" If targeting a creature that is larger then you (Intended if the player is playing something small like a gnome attacking a human or a human attacking a, idk, bigger thing) then the cast distance doubles. The idea is that its easier to hit something that is bigger as there is more of a target to attack. No, I don't think that it should get advantage because the creature is larger, but it makes sense that it would be easier to land the hit from farther away.
Movement Reduction - I find it strange that being electrocuted by a continuous stream of magic lighting would not make it hard to do something other then piss yourself. I have never seen anyone pick up a live wire, start getting electrocuted, and then walts to the kitchen to grab a drink. I feel like using this on the target would cause the target to loose half its move speed. I know standing takes half, but in shows whenever the target being attacked by a stream of some sort of energy ability is laying down and getting hit, it always seems to take them a while to get back up. It also seems like being able to move while being electrocuted should be harder.
Disadvantage - This ties into the previous idea. Doing anything other then piss yourself while being electrified seems like a feat in of itself unless your killua from HunterXHunter. So having some sort of disadvantage would make sense. I would put it as a D20 roll to do something is done with disadvantage. Attempting to jump to see how close you can get to the target, attacking with a weapon, casting a spell, ect. Spells that require a save are tricky though since it doesn't require a D20 roll to cast, so I would go with an Arcana check to see if you can focus on the magic long enough to cast a spell that has a saving throw on it. The DC on this I guess would be the same as anything else with a DC. 10+Prof+Int which would be 13 for my character [10+2+1]. This would be against the targets Int I think given that that is the stat they are trying to beat. Easiest way to handle it is just to have it against the targets Con since the spell does attack their hp, but I don't want to make it that simple.
Crowd Control - As I mentioned, Force Lightning has the ability to move someone around the battlefield. This does seem a bit to powerful though given that there is other spells that do the same thing, so I will be giving it some debuff ideas as well. The DC the target has to beat would probably be the same DC as the rest of the spell, so 10+Prof+Int = 13 for my character. (God I can't get away from that unlucky number). The range that the target can be moved would be... what about 10*IntMod? Given that My Int Mod is just +1, I would only be able to forcibly move the target up to 10ft in a given direction. I feel that the saving throw for this would be either Dex, Str, or Con, not to sure on this. Using this effect on a target of a larger size I think would either A) Give the target advantage on the saving throw or B) Drop the DC of said saving throw. Maybe 5+Prof+Int which would be 8 for me. Finally, the big ticket item. Using this effect ends the spell. Given that I'm using my action to try and move the target, my mind is split between holding the spell active and shoving said target to a new location. This would technically let me try to grab something and fling it across the room using lighting. Would I be rolling to attack the box if I did this and how would the ruling of that work?
Critical Hit - The original understanding of this is that the first damage dice roll gets the double damage and the rest is unchanged. I am thinking of being able to use the crit to gain a bonus to one of the skills listed above in relation to the spell.
- If I roll a crit and just want the bonus damage, easy, roll twice the dice for the first roll and the rest of the ability remains unchanged.
- If I roll a crit, I can choose to actually hold the target still for longer and apply some sort of harder buff to make it difficult to use abilities for a short time. Maybe a D4 to see how many rounds this lasts. Its kind of strong, maybe to strong, so I really want the dice for this time setting to be as small as possible without just resorting to a coin. Only other way I know to reduce the targets ability further then just giving disadvantage would be to remove the use of all modifiers to any rolls they make while the crit is active. So if they want to roll to hit they have roll the D20 and add nothing to it.
- If I roll a crit, for moving the target I would just multiply the distance that said target could be moved by 2 letting me double the distance and maybe the target gets disadvantage on the saving throw to resist the moving effect. I figured that the target shouldn't get disadvantage on trying to resist this spell directly because they are trying to fight back against what is actively attacking them.
Damage - This is where the spell struggles the most at its core. My reason for wanting to choose this spell is that all of my other spells are situational and are not directly intended for combat use. When choosing a magic attack spell, I wanted something that could be cast at a distance letting me take the most of said magic and I wanted it to be able to last more then one turn given the very limited number of spell slots that the Eldritch Knight (EK) has to work with. So I am thinking about going the rout that the cantrips follow in this case. The spell gains bonus damage at a certain level. The spell does 1d12 as its base. Other cantrips get the ability to increase the damage delt by the spell by one damage dice at levels 5, 11, and 17. So at 18th level this spell would deal 4d12 per round. Yes, this means that I can turn the spell into a power house move by using it at a higher spell slot as well, but as was explained.
So I could deal an additional die or two of damage using this spell at a higher level on the first turn, but then it gets knocked back down. Again though, My intent was for this to esentally be my damaging ability for most of this character's game time. So although I may not be using it much due to me trying to stay up front in the fight, I wouldn't be surprised to have my DM throw me a curve ball by having us fight a flying creature that I can't reach. Given that I know more about the game then most of the other players so far (I helped 3 of them make their characters, the forth constantly asks me for advice, the fifth I think actually has a really solid head on their shoulders, and the sixth i'm pretty confident just tries to make up shit that he thinks he can do and convince the DM to let him do it on the spur of the moment without actually figuring out weather or not it would work, ex. throwing a Lance [not a throwable weapon] that has an enemy skewered on it at a different creature to try and pin them together. Can be done, But since said person is a dwarf fighting 2 Aackokra, it seems like that would be a lot harder then it actually was) I want this to be my sort of fall back spell to help prevent a TPK.
I think thats pretty much it. It adds a lot into the spell and given that the spell is set to last for a minute (10 Rounds of combat) it probably needs to have its active time shortened as well, But I think there is enough here to keep it a relevant spell while without eliminating its Channel effect. Maybe remove one round of combat from the spells chanable time if it is used at a spell slot 1 above its current lvl. So 9 rounds if used at a lvl 2 slot. 8 rounds if used at a lvl 3 slot, ect.
Let me know what yall think, your thoughts and ideas, and what you all would likely see from an ability like this if it was modified for this class (or another) to help keep it as a relevant option.
Thanks for all the input.
Magic Missile is not weak. It has a 120-ft. range, requires absolutely no material components (so you can be literally naked and unarmed and still cast it) does Force Damage which absolutely nobody has resistance to, and only one creature in all of D&D has immunity from. Oh, and it automatically hits. 😳🤯 And it can target a different creature with each bolt....
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Right, but they are only D4's. I get its versatility in that it can target multiple different creatures, but I do think that I was underrating the spell a bit just because it had the smaller hit die, which is wrong so I apologize on that point. I also did not realize that it was an automatic hit. Thought you still had to roll to land the hit, good to know, thx lamSposta.
Sure. Keep in mind that damage type is almost if not more important than damage die some times. Half the Monsters Manual has resistance to fire damage for example, but Force, Radiant, and Psychic, damages are far less resisted.
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A point of order on #6. I believe yes, you could use your action surge to double-tap someone with Witch Bolt. However, I think if you tried to use the action surge to get in a melee attack along with a WB zap (or anything else that's NOT a double-tap) the spell would end.
Interesting situation. I'm inclined to agree that Action Surge can be flexed for a double-tap by RAW, even if it isn't RAI. This is one of those times where 5e isn't great about using precise, consistent terminology, and opens the door to things the writer probably discounted as ever being a possibility. Most features, and nearly all spells, seem to be written under the pretense that "one action" is the natural hard cap for a creature, so anything that calls for you to "use your action" for an effect on a subsequent turn is colloquially identical to "once per turn/round" in most circumstances.
It's understandable that a writer would not have considered the fact that someone could MC to get Action Surge, yet all they would need to have inserted is a "once per turn/round" clause to make it perfectly clear in all situations. They didn't, so it does work by RAW. Using your action (including via Action Surge) for anything else definitely ends the spell.
RAI may be a different story, and I have no strong opinion one way or another.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
This is one of those situations where I think that not having that clause is clear and consistent. You are straight up locked into this until it drops. Go ahead, action surge, double tap it, but if you don’t use it you lose it so choose wisely.
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As an addendum to the Action Surge conversation, Haste also gives it's target an additional action. That action is specifically limited by the spell and would cause Witch Bolt to end.
Witch Bolt does 1d12 or 6.5 average damage per round, if the attack hits, if the caster can maintain distance and concentration, and if the creature has enough hit points to survive multiple rounds. Over the course of 1 minute (10 rounds) that would be 65 average damage. However, the chances of a battle lasting that long with enough targets to preoccupy the other party members enough to allow witch bolt to actually go off to max is slim. Most battles seem to last 3-4 rounds max, meaning 19.5-26 hp assuming concentration is held, etc.
Compare that to Magic Missile. 1d4+1 damage per dart is a minimum of 2, a maximum of 5 and an average of 2.5+1= 3.5 damage per dart. That's at least 6, at most 15, and on average 10.5. The average damage is the equivalent of 1d6 per dart or 3d6 total damage, but the spread is narrowed (higher floor but lower ceiling). In addition to the other things that were mentioned, the ability to guarantee 6 damage can be huge particularly with high AC opponents. With your lower int modifier, magic missile might be a better option for a spell damage even if it seems like the damage is lacking.
Consider that you can match the damage with a d12 or 2d6 melee weapon and add your strength modifier. Assuming a +3 strength modifier, you'll be doing 3-3.5 more average damage with those attacks. Sure, you can avoid the additional attack rolls and attack at range, but all of those attacks can crit. You could also drop to a d6 weapon attack and do the same damage as the spell. That's a Javelin, which you can throw 30 ft with a regular attack and be 10% more likely to hit.
You mentioned wanting to pick up a level of rogue. Perhaps you have a dex build instead of a strength build to accommodate that. The rapier deals 1d8+dex mod and stacks with sneak attack. The longbow or shortbow both fall in line with Witchbolt damage wise, hit at a better rate (particularly if you took the archery fighting style), from farther away, each attack can crit and stack with sneak attack.
One thing that I thought of while considering the Haste vs Action Surge aspect is that Witch Bolt does say using your action for anything other than triggering the damage will cause the spell to end. It says nothing of your bonus action being used or your reaction. Add those items to your discussion with your DM just to cover your bases. The spell specifically says action, so any bonus actions not tied to the Attack action or other action oriented prerequisites should be fair game along with using reactions for AoOs and spells like Shield. Bonus action spells would also be fair game on the subsequent rounds, since Witch Bolt is only cast on the first round.
I know that a reasonable chunk of this was spent offering alternatives to Witch Bolt, but that doesn't mean that you can't have fun with the spell. Playing up the reasons why you are using the spell instead of doing something more effective can sometimes lead to more fun than simply doing the most effective thing that the character can do. Use the information you have here to inform your decision, but choose what makes sense for your character.
One thing that has gone mentioned but cannot be overstated in the discussion of Magic Missile vs other damage spells is the actual effect of having to roll to hit. A spell that does 19.5-26 damage on average per hit does effectively far less than that; with a~60% chance to hit, it only does ~12-16 damage on average per cast (and it is all or nothing). Unless a creature has some feature that makes it immune to magic missiles, then every cast of that spell does its damage, albeit still somewhat less. Witch Bolt just breaks even at the third round, though; so if you don't average 3-4 rounds of damage with it, you'd be better off with MM.
It really seems like Magic Missile is the go to damage spell for all spell casters. I'm going to explain why it is sort of my second pick before going on because it looks like everyone thinks that I hate Magic Missile and that i'm trying to avoid it and thats not entirely the case. When I hit lvl 4 I will have 2 Cantrips, 4 lvl 1 spells, and 3 spell slots to work with until I hit lvl 7. I want my magic to be more situational to help with the role play elements of the game, so my casting will be more out of combat then in combat.
Cantrips - Mage Hand(because duh) Dancing Lights.
Not going to explain mage hand. We have 3 of our 6 players that I KNOW don't have dark vision. This would let me light a path for the entire party or just keep the area around us lit while we do various things. Negates the darkness problem and seems to have some other role play elements in it as well.
1st lvl - Find Familiar(Conjuration), Shield(Abjuration), Absorb Elements(Abjuration), Witch Bolt(Evocation - Will explain why soon).
Find Familiar is for the role play side of it. I will be going with a hawk because we already have someone with a cat. This will create a sort of Assassins Creed idea letting me scout an area to determine what the combat encounter will be like. I'm a fighter, I want to plan tactically.
Shield and Absorb Elements is for the defensive side of things. While Shield will just let me up my AC when I really need it, Absorb Elements will let me take any damage that would be delt via a spell caster and convert it into damage for me, acting as both defense and offense. It also says that it lessens the effects of the damage I receive, How does that transfer into dice rolls and number calculations?
Witch Bolt winds up being my only offensive spell. Because my other spells of this level are intended for defensive purposes, and I only have 4 spell slots for combat, Its the idea of what happens if i'm found in a longer combat encounter that I am at a range for. I do have a crossbow to use, but for only the number of shots that I have bolts. I'm giving the offensive spell I have one spell slot per combat so that I have slots left over to use allowing me to ensure that I can take a hit and defend my team. As a result of this, I want something I can get the most of. So i'm not looking for a one off. I want something that has the play making potential to either hold the target still so my team can go ham (Snare) or something that would let me pump out the most damage I could get out of casting the spell once. Having a spell I can channel helps me do this if I can only cast it once. Magic Missile will give me 3 darts that fire off at any and every target I choose and are guaranteed to hit, which makes it my second runner up, but that is 3d4 and then the spell is done. If I land Witch Bolt then its 1d12 for every round I can keep it active. Assuming I can hold it for 3 rounds (We have two other players that can fight up front) then It can deal 3d12 damage in its casting time. It just takes me 3 rounds to cast it, and assuming we are forced to fight at a distance, it makes my long sword kinda useless even though I still have the crossbow to fall back on. And throwing lightning around sounds more fun and like it could look cooler then throwing out a few darts of energy.
I'm not dissing on Magic Missile, but its my second runner up just based on preference right now. Good chance that I will switch the two spells out once in a while as I lvl up, but I'm looking for a single damage dealing spell that I can use for a variety of elements. as it happens right now, both of these are falling kinda short on that as they are just damage dice and nothing more. I kinda want the role play more then anything and that is what is making force lighting sound good atm.
I would like to preface by stating that It’s your character so you should do whatever you think is most fun for you. I do however have some observations from my own experiences playing an Eldritch Knight.
You took Mage Hand for RP and to carry a light, so why do you need Dancing Lights too? You don’t need the hand to move the Dancing Lights after all. Besides, if you need it you could always buy a Driftglobe. Don’t get me wrong, I love Dancing Lights, but when you have so few cantrips, you might want to diversify so you can get more out of your two cantrips. Might I suggest Lightning Lure? One of the advantages is you can pull enemies into melee with you. That would give you the ability to pull enemies away from your squishy allies like the Wizards, and lock them in combat with you instead. That not only lets you protect your friends better, but it could also give you more chances to attack (ya know, the fighter thing) because of opportunity attacks. And since it’s a Cantrip, you can use it as often as needed.
You took both Shield and Absorb Elements. Both are great spells, but when I was playing an Eldritch Knight I found myself not casting them just in case I needed the slot for something more useful. I will say I found Absorb Elements more useful at times because it is both defense and attack. Plus, with good armor my AC was not such an issue for my character. Just my 2 cp.
(To answer your question, Absorb Elements gives you “resistance” to the damage type, that means you only take 1/2 of the damage rounded down. If you would take 12 or 13 points of lightning damage as an example, you would only take 6 instead. You then get to add 1d6 damage of that type, in the case of our example Lightning, on your next melee attack. That includes melee-weapon attacks, melee-spell attacks, and unarmed melee attacks like punching.)
If I only had 3 spell slots, and I was thinking of taking an attack spell, it would never be [Tooltip Not Found] because the chance of missing and wasting the spell slot is too high for my tastes, between %40-%50 depending on your INT modifier. I would strongly consider either Magic Missile because it’s a can’t miss, sure fire, guaranteed thing. Alternatively I would go for a spell where I don’t have to hit, but the enemy has to save instead, maybe the ever popular [/spell]Burning Hands[/spell]. The advantage there is I still can’t miss, even if the enemy makes their saving throw, they still take 1/2 damage which is better than no damage.
As the fighter, I would personally avoid spells with Concentration. You’re a tank, the bad guys will attack you, and every attack that lands increases your chance to fail a concentration check and therefore loose the spell. Even with a high CON, the more times you have to roll, the higher the probability that you will fail a check.
Enjoy your character, and have fun!!!
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True enough. The ability to get that guaranteed damage is sweet and is the reason that Witch Bolt looks like a good spell. It's better for a full caster who will be building their spellcasting stat for that first attack and doesn't have as good of options for the melee attacks. It's better for the gish builds that are fighting piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing resistant or immune enemies and there aren't enough magic weapons to go around or enough other magic spells to take down the creature. For an EK, it's ok for the first few rounds though something like Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade is a little better because of the potential riders, the fact that the attack modifier is added to the damage (of the melee attack), and the likelihood that the chance to hit will be better for any given attack. Each attack having the possibility of a crit is offset by the fact that every additional "hit" from Witch Bolt is guaranteed, but not being able to switch targets can be problematic, particularly if the EK is filling the tank role for the party. However, if you need several attacks against a creature, can manage to get advantage for only one round, and will TPK otherwise; Witch Bolt shines in that type of encounter IF it hits that first attack.
Ah, you see...
Driftglobe, Lightning Lure, Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade.
These are spells I hadn't gotten access to yet. They fall into books that I have yet to open my wallet to.
Der goes me coppers. 😅
You can just buy to spells on DDB instead of the whole book. All three of those spells plus 1 more are found in the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, you can buy just those four spells for I think $4-$6 USD., and the Driftglobe I think is a magic item in the DMG, so the DM should have access to it. One thing about Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade is you make a single weapon attack as part of the casting, but once you hit 5th-level, you will have access to more attacks per round. With a solid magic weapon, you might do more damage simply by attacking more often so it’s a trade off.
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