Yes guidance would apply to the initiative roll just like a bard's jack of all trades.
However, guidance is concentration and only last a minute. Timing it so that you have guidance active when you need to make an initiative roll is something most DMs will look closely at.
Are you going to walk around casting guidance every 60 seconds? This will likely cause issues if folks see you casting spells and may react badly.
If you try it when you are planning on ambushing someone then unless subtle spell is used, I personally rule that you probably spoil the ambush unless you are 100' away or more (depending on the environment).
Anyway, yes it works but it is almost impossible to arrange it in practice.
“Anyway, yes it works but it is almost impossible to arrange it in practice.”
I want to start a bar fight. As a distraction. While my friend sneaks into a back room for X reason.
we have laid a trap for X and are about to attack.
having used locate creature/plant/person/object/tracked something with mind spike and know it to be right around this corner/behind a door... I would like to ...
practically impossible? Nah.
less than likely to happen sure. But practically impossible is a drastic embellishment.
thats like saying it’s drastically impossible to use absorb elements.
Personally, I would drop the Guidance bonus from the initiative when the Concentration ends.
That would be counter to how things work in D&D. You don't need to concentrate on Guidance after it's used (plus Initiative doesn't change in 5e). If a DM did that, she might expect lose the faith of her players in her rule knowledge.
Personally, I would drop the Guidance bonus from the initiative when the Concentration ends.
Interesting...
I feel like it would also work that way....
but not sure if raw or rai has any clarity on if a skill check that persists longer than guidances duration then loses the bonus once it expires/concentration is lost.
because typically guidance is done before a more instantaneous situation, and not as much in prolonged time scenarios.
Personally, I would drop the Guidance bonus from the initiative when the Concentration ends.
That would be counter to how things work in D&D. You don't need to concentrate on Guidance after it's used (plus Initiative doesn't change in 5e). If a DM did that, she might expect lose the faith of her players in her rule knowledge.
Initiative doesn’t change... because there are few ways to modify initiative temporarily, such as guidance.
or. As you are essentially stating.
show us in the PhB or the DMG where it says Initiative does not and cannot change once it is rolled.
further...
show us all where it says one cannot, as an action, use guidance in combat on their turn, to re-roll their initiative to go a little bit faster in turn order?
i personally would not allow the example ^ as that’s too “meta” for my taste. But some people would care less about that.
edit- I read myself where it says the initiative does not change from round to round raw. Though I also see in 3.5 you could... diving further myself to see if there’s not conflicting things as I am encountering.
Lets just point out the rules for the order of combat, before this gets too far out of hand. The rules mostly tell you what you can do, so you could probably come up with thousands of extreme and arbitrary examples of "show me where the rules tell me I can't..." That isn't how most of the rules are written and is simply a bad argument.
The closest that I can think to another situation like adding guidance would be Wild Shape, with abilities that reduce dexterity another example. I wouldn't expect those changes to affect initiative order.
If you don't like the idea, you can always not allow guidance to affect initiative.
Lets just point out the rules for the order of combat, before this gets too far out of hand. The rules mostly tell you what you can do, so you could probably come up with thousands of extreme and arbitrary examples of "show me where the rules tell me I can't..." That isn't how most of the rules are written and is simply a bad argument.
As I stated in my own post that you didn’t bother to read fully.
i saw where it said that for 5e. And pointed out it was a difference from 3.5e. But yeah. Trolling works too I guess?
The closest that I can think to another situation like adding guidance would be Wild Shape, with abilities that reduce dexterity another example. I wouldn't expect those changes to affect initiative order.
If you don't like the idea, you can always not allow guidance to affect initiative.
Yeah. And what I noticed is in 5e initiative is set once rolled.
which is different from how other editions had done it.
Lets just point out the rules for the order of combat, before this gets too far out of hand. The rules mostly tell you what you can do, so you could probably come up with thousands of extreme and arbitrary examples of "show me where the rules tell me I can't..." That isn't how most of the rules are written and is simply a bad argument.
As I stated in my own post that you didn’t bother to read fully.
i saw where it said that for 5e. And pointed out it was a difference from 3.5e. But yeah. Trolling works too I guess?
You did edit the post. I'm pretty sure the edit wasn't there when I started my response.
Either way, I made two valid points. I don't know in what world making cogent arguments relevant to the current topic is trolling.
it is almost impossible to arrange it in practice.
Routinely casting Guidance before say, opening a door in any dungeon seems like a pretty reasonable precaution.
I could see this being viable. At the end of the day, advantage on initiative rolls adding 1d4 on initiative rolls under limited circumstances is certainly beneficial, but it's really not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.
It's actually adding 1d4 to the rolls. That's pretty close to doubling some player's normal initiative bonus. Still not a big deal, but a little different than advantage.
Personally, I would drop the Guidance bonus from the initiative when the Concentration ends.
That would be counter to how things work in D&D. You don't need to concentrate on Guidance after it's used (plus Initiative doesn't change in 5e). If a DM did that, she might expect lose the faith of her players in her rule knowledge.
I'm not basing my call on a narrow reading of rules, but rather on how I feel it should make internal sense. 5e is supposed to be about rulings, not rules, and all that. I personally feel it just makes more sense from an in character perspective, rather than a meta-game level.
I'm not basing my call on a narrow reading of rules, but rather on how I feel it should make internal sense.
Right, that's why also indicated potential consequences. Players are likely to have their own internal sense here, based on 5e's paradigms. Expecting them to concentrate on Guidance after it's been used likely wouldn't be intuitive to them. Same with altering initiative mid-combat (discussed here), which isn't done in 5e (much to my disappointment, for other reasons). I of course have no stake in how others play. I just endeavor to provide information.
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Simple as that, since Initiative rolls are ability checks, does that mean I can get the bonus from Guidance?
Mechanically, yes. But will you have it in effect when the time comes?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Cool, thanks. I know it would be hard to time, but if you get it right, it could mean the difference between living and dying.
If you’re planning an ambush you could probably time it.
”We jump out and attack the bandits as I cast guidance on the rogue.”
I’d allow that as a DM, assuming the party is well hidden.
I guess you can. But you do have to know that you are going to start combat within a minute of casting it.
Yes guidance would apply to the initiative roll just like a bard's jack of all trades.
However, guidance is concentration and only last a minute. Timing it so that you have guidance active when you need to make an initiative roll is something most DMs will look closely at.
Are you going to walk around casting guidance every 60 seconds? This will likely cause issues if folks see you casting spells and may react badly.
If you try it when you are planning on ambushing someone then unless subtle spell is used, I personally rule that you probably spoil the ambush unless you are 100' away or more (depending on the environment).
Anyway, yes it works but it is almost impossible to arrange it in practice.
I want to start a bar fight. As a distraction. While my friend sneaks into a back room for X reason.
we have laid a trap for X and are about to attack.
having used locate creature/plant/person/object/tracked something with mind spike and know it to be right around this corner/behind a door... I would like to ...
practically impossible? Nah.
less than likely to happen sure. But practically impossible is a drastic embellishment.
thats like saying it’s drastically impossible to use absorb elements.
Blank
Personally, I would drop the Guidance bonus from the initiative when the Concentration ends.
Routinely casting Guidance before say, opening a door in any dungeon seems like a pretty reasonable precaution.
That would be counter to how things work in D&D. You don't need to concentrate on Guidance after it's used (plus Initiative doesn't change in 5e). If a DM did that, she might expect lose the faith of her players in her rule knowledge.
Interesting...
I feel like it would also work that way....
but not sure if raw or rai has any clarity on if a skill check that persists longer than guidances duration then loses the bonus once it expires/concentration is lost.
because typically guidance is done before a more instantaneous situation, and not as much in prolonged time scenarios.
Blank
Initiative doesn’t change... because there are few ways to modify initiative temporarily, such as guidance.
or. As you are essentially stating.
show us in the PhB or the DMG where it says Initiative does not and cannot change once it is rolled.
further...
show us all where it says one cannot, as an action, use guidance in combat on their turn, to re-roll their initiative to go a little bit faster in turn order?
i personally would not allow the example ^ as that’s too “meta” for my taste. But some people would care less about that.
edit- I read myself where it says the initiative does not change from round to round raw. Though I also see in 3.5 you could... diving further myself to see if there’s not conflicting things as I am encountering.
Blank
Lets just point out the rules for the order of combat, before this gets too far out of hand. The rules mostly tell you what you can do, so you could probably come up with thousands of extreme and arbitrary examples of "show me where the rules tell me I can't..." That isn't how most of the rules are written and is simply a bad argument.
The closest that I can think to another situation like adding guidance would be Wild Shape, with abilities that reduce dexterity another example. I wouldn't expect those changes to affect initiative order.
If you don't like the idea, you can always not allow guidance to affect initiative.
As I stated in my own post that you didn’t bother to read fully.
i saw where it said that for 5e. And pointed out it was a difference from 3.5e. But yeah. Trolling works too I guess?
Blank
Yeah. And what I noticed is in 5e initiative is set once rolled.
which is different from how other editions had done it.
Blank
You did edit the post. I'm pretty sure the edit wasn't there when I started my response.
Either way, I made two valid points. I don't know in what world making cogent arguments relevant to the current topic is trolling.
I could see this being viable. At the end of the day,
advantage on initiative rollsadding 1d4 on initiative rolls under limited circumstances is certainly beneficial, but it's really not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.EDIT: Thanks Jhfffan
"Not all those who wander are lost"
It's actually adding 1d4 to the rolls. That's pretty close to doubling some player's normal initiative bonus. Still not a big deal, but a little different than advantage.
I'm not basing my call on a narrow reading of rules, but rather on how I feel it should make internal sense. 5e is supposed to be about rulings, not rules, and all that. I personally feel it just makes more sense from an in character perspective, rather than a meta-game level.
Right, that's why also indicated potential consequences. Players are likely to have their own internal sense here, based on 5e's paradigms. Expecting them to concentrate on Guidance after it's been used likely wouldn't be intuitive to them. Same with altering initiative mid-combat (discussed here), which isn't done in 5e (much to my disappointment, for other reasons). I of course have no stake in how others play. I just endeavor to provide information.