So I just realized about mob combat on Zee Bashew's YouTube channel today, and I'm still a bit confused about how it wor . Specifically the attack PCs part. Do I take the attack bounces of all creatures directly and round it down or what?
To answer your question, if there are attacks with different hit modifiers, resolve them separately.
For example, if a fighter in plate with a shield (20AC) was surrounded by 12 thugs 5 in melee, 7 at range. It's mace is +4 to hit, so needs a 16 to hit, so 1 in 4 hit. So one thug in melee hits with its multiattack for 10 damage. The thug's heavy crossbow is a +2 to hit, so needs a 18 to hit, so 1 in 5 hit. So 1 thug at range hits with the crossbow for 5 damage.
Of course the rules don't say to calculate advantage and you really should since the math in this case doubles the number of hits. The quick and easy way to calculate advantage is for each attacker with advantage that misses, use the "attackers needed for one to hit" number again. So since 4 out of 5 melee attackers missed and 1 in 4 hit, that is 1 extra hit with advantage. And since 6 out of 7 ranged attackers missed and 1 in 5 hit, that is 1 extra hit from advantage. (Not by the book, just a more mathematically accurate house rule).
It works fine when all the attackers are the same (and they don't have (dis)advantage), but these rules as written don't add up when the attackers do different damages or have multiattack and skews the math in favor of the monsters way more than it should (as exampled in the spoiler).
Same 20 AC fighter vs 14 goblins and a goblin boss (7 goblins taking pot shots with shortbows), the DMG says you would calculate it like this:
All have +4 to hit and need to meet 20 AC so need a 16 to hit. According to the mob attacks chart, 16 gets a hit for every 4 creatures. There are 15 creatures so 3 hit. The creature that deals the most damage gets all the hits and can use multiattack, so the boss would get 3 multiattacks that hit for 10 damage each and do 30. The reason I don't like the DMGs rules much is because this math is the same as if 12 bosses were attacking.
I would instead use the mob attacks chart to determine the number of attacks needed, not the number of attackers. Then make 1 attack hit for each of that number of attackers. Since the boss has multiattack, that is 16 attacks (the extra goblins make sense now), so 4 attacks would hit (they all do 5 damage in this case, but you should still start from the strongest) for 20 damage.
To answer your question, if there are attacks with different hit modifiers, resolve them separately.
For example, if a fighter in plate with a shield (20AC) was surrounded by 12 thugs 5 in melee, 7 at range. It's mace is +4 to hit, so needs a 16 to hit, so 1 in 4 hit. So one thug in melee hits with its multiattack for 10 damage. The thug's heavy crossbow is a +2 to hit, so needs a 18 to hit, so 1 in 5 hit. So 1 thug at range hits with the crossbow for 5 damage.
Of course the rules don't say to calculate advantage and you really should since the math in this case doubles the number of hits. The quick and easy way to calculate advantage is for each attacker with advantage that misses, use the "attackers needed for one to hit" number again. So since 4 out of 5 melee attackers missed and 1 in 4 hit, that is 1 extra hit with advantage. And since 6 out of 7 ranged attackers missed and 1 in 5 hit, that is 1 extra hit from advantage. (Not by the book, just a more mathematically accurate house rule).
It works fine when all the attackers are the same (and they don't have (dis)advantage), but these rules as written don't add up when the attackers do different damages or have multiattack and skews the math in favor of the monsters way more than it should (as exampled in the spoiler).
Same 20 AC fighter vs 14 goblins and a goblin boss (7 goblins taking pot shots with shortbows), the DMG says you would calculate it like this:
All have +4 to hit and need to meet 20 AC so need a 16 to hit. According to the mob attacks chart, 16 gets a hit for every 4 creatures. There are 15 creatures so 3 hit. The creature that deals the most damage gets all the hits and can use multiattack, so the boss would get 3 multiattacks that hit for 10 damage each and do 30. The reason I don't like the DMGs rules much is because this math is the same as if 12 bosses were attacking.
I would instead use the mob attacks chart to determine the number of attacks needed, not the number of attackers. Then make 1 attack hit for each of that number of attackers. Since the boss has multiattack, that is 16 attacks (the extra goblins make sense now), so 4 attacks would hit (they all do 5 damage in this case, but you should still start from the strongest) for 20 damage.
Sorry only the first few short paragraphs were an answer to your question and the multiple longer paragraphs were me ranting about how these rules need tweaked to be better.
Sorry only the first few short paragraphs were an answer to your question and the multiple longer paragraphs were me ranting about how these rules need tweaked to be better.
So I just realized about mob combat on Zee Bashew's YouTube channel today, and I'm still a bit confused about how it wor . Specifically the attack PCs part. Do I take the attack bounces of all creatures directly and round it down or what?
First here are the mob rules: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/running-the-game#HandlingMobs
To answer your question, if there are attacks with different hit modifiers, resolve them separately.
For example, if a fighter in plate with a shield (20AC) was surrounded by 12 thugs 5 in melee, 7 at range. It's mace is +4 to hit, so needs a 16 to hit, so 1 in 4 hit. So one thug in melee hits with its multiattack for 10 damage. The thug's heavy crossbow is a +2 to hit, so needs a 18 to hit, so 1 in 5 hit. So 1 thug at range hits with the crossbow for 5 damage.
Of course the rules don't say to calculate advantage and you really should since the math in this case doubles the number of hits. The quick and easy way to calculate advantage is for each attacker with advantage that misses, use the "attackers needed for one to hit" number again. So since 4 out of 5 melee attackers missed and 1 in 4 hit, that is 1 extra hit with advantage. And since 6 out of 7 ranged attackers missed and 1 in 5 hit, that is 1 extra hit from advantage. (Not by the book, just a more mathematically accurate house rule).
It works fine when all the attackers are the same (and they don't have (dis)advantage), but these rules as written don't add up when the attackers do different damages or have multiattack and skews the math in favor of the monsters way more than it should (as exampled in the spoiler).
Same 20 AC fighter vs 14 goblins and a goblin boss (7 goblins taking pot shots with shortbows), the DMG says you would calculate it like this:
All have +4 to hit and need to meet 20 AC so need a 16 to hit. According to the mob attacks chart, 16 gets a hit for every 4 creatures. There are 15 creatures so 3 hit. The creature that deals the most damage gets all the hits and can use multiattack, so the boss would get 3 multiattacks that hit for 10 damage each and do 30. The reason I don't like the DMGs rules much is because this math is the same as if 12 bosses were attacking.
I would instead use the mob attacks chart to determine the number of attacks needed, not the number of attackers. Then make 1 attack hit for each of that number of attackers. Since the boss has multiattack, that is 16 attacks (the extra goblins make sense now), so 4 attacks would hit (they all do 5 damage in this case, but you should still start from the strongest) for 20 damage.
Oh. Thanks.
Sorry only the first few short paragraphs were an answer to your question and the multiple longer paragraphs were me ranting about how these rules need tweaked to be better.
Oh I see.
Ill not be using the Rat Swarm monster template in my game, but running them as Mobs instead. Here is why:
Comparing a Rat Swarm vs a Mob attack: Assume a Rat Swarm is 24 creatures (24 hit points, each rat has 1 HP)
A Rat Swarm has a +2 to hit one creature per turn for 2D6. This feels stupid.
A mob, on the otherhand requires a number of critters to get a free hit based on AC.
AC 19+ requires 10 rats to get a hit- our swarm will do 2 points per round
AC 17-18 5 rats our swarm dishes out 5 points per round
AC 15-16 4 rats- dishes out 6 points per round
AC 13-14 3 rats swarm dishes out 8 points per round.
AC 6-12 2 rats our swarm does 12 points per round.
ARMOR IS YOUR FRIEND!