So just a quick question, my group in playing Rime of the Frostmaiden. For lack of spoilers, I'll say we're in a place where the Frostmaiden can hear what we are saying wherever we are in that particular place. I also know that as a god, she can speak all known languages. My question, mechanically and non-mechanically, is whether she'd know thieves' cant. Yes thieves' cant is a "known language" but only to rogues and it's mostly just code, slang, and body language that only rogues know. So would she be able to understand it?
I mean, it's not a language so they would certainly not be able to speak it. Second, if the diety would have no reason to understand the intricacies of the way thieves function then there would be no reason for them to be able to understand it. It would be like asking if the god could understand any encoded message.
I'd like to say "no, thieves' cant is not a language," but the languages section of the PHB does mention it as a "secret language." And the MM doesn't mention thieves' cant or have additional rules for the "all" language. Though the class feature does not describe it like a language, but more like a cipher.
The finer points of NPC stats are pretty much up to the DM. As far as RAW goes, yes (probably).
So just a quick question, my group in playing Rime of the Frostmaiden. For lack of spoilers, I'll say we're in a place where the Frostmaiden can hear what we are saying wherever we are in that particular place. I also know that as a god, she can speak all known languages. My question, mechanically and non-mechanically, is whether she'd know thieves' cant. Yes thieves' cant is a "known language" but only to rogues and it's mostly just code, slang, and body language that only rogues know. So would she be able to understand it?
As a general rule, you should assume a god can understand absolutely anything, whether or not it's even in a language, let alone something as trivial to understand as Thieves' Cant. The list of things a god will fail to decipher is not long.
Now I’m digging into 3.5 mechanics. Any deity of divine rank 1 or higher (lesser rank or higher) can understand, speak, and read any language, including nonverbal languages. The deity can speak directly to any being within one mile of itself per divine rank.
Auril is a lesser deity but was not ranked so she is between a 1-5. Use that as you will. I can find nothing in 5E that would change how Gods "perceive" around them or use of their remote senses.
So just a quick question, my group in playing Rime of the Frostmaiden. For lack of spoilers, I'll say we're in a place where the Frostmaiden can hear what we are saying wherever we are in that particular place. I also know that as a god, she can speak all known languages. My question, mechanically and non-mechanically, is whether she'd know thieves' cant. Yes thieves' cant is a "known language" but only to rogues and it's mostly just code, slang, and body language that only rogues know. So would she be able to understand it?
As a general rule, you should assume a god can understand absolutely anything, whether or not it's even in a language, let alone something as trivial to understand as Thieves' Cant. The list of things a god will fail to decipher is not long.
I would not assume that at all. You have a very specific, culturally western concept of a God. Every god is not an all powerful 'creator' gods. Nor is every God more intelligent than a human. Consider Cthulhu. That is clearly a God that would not understand practically anything about us. Or the various gods tricked by Brer Rabbit (Africa) or the similar Raven vs Coyote stories from the First Nations people of America.
Nature Gods, War Gods etc. COULD possibly know Thieves Cant, but I do not see a guarantee. A god that focuses on languages, knowledge, magic, cities, trickery, rogues, etc. should definitely know it. But not a Lava God, Forest God, Alien invading God, etc.
I would say that RAW thieves' cant is a language like any other; it doesn't really matter if it's intentionally obtuse or hard to learn. My way of thinking about it is that what deities actually understand is meaning or intent, the actual language is irrelevant. I would say this would also applies if you try to communicate euphemistically in common (like Mog_Dracov's example of cockney rhyming slang 😉).
If you don't want Auril to hear you, then don't speak; if you (or more specifically, your characters) think she can't see you, or has a limited view, then you could try written language instead. Otherwise you need to find some other way to communicate (telepathy, if you have it), or limit your communication to things that don't matter if Auril learns of them (discuss secrets when you know you're not being observed).
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So just a quick question, my group in playing Rime of the Frostmaiden. For lack of spoilers, I'll say we're in a place where the Frostmaiden can hear what we are saying wherever we are in that particular place. I also know that as a god, she can speak all known languages. My question, mechanically and non-mechanically, is whether she'd know thieves' cant. Yes thieves' cant is a "known language" but only to rogues and it's mostly just code, slang, and body language that only rogues know. So would she be able to understand it?
I mean, it's not a language so they would certainly not be able to speak it. Second, if the diety would have no reason to understand the intricacies of the way thieves function then there would be no reason for them to be able to understand it. It would be like asking if the god could understand any encoded message.
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
Example of British Rhyming slang:
I tried to half inch his sausage and mash but it all went Peter Tong.
Can you guess what it means?
I tried to pinch/steal his cash but it all went wrong.
I'd like to say "no, thieves' cant is not a language," but the languages section of the PHB does mention it as a "secret language." And the MM doesn't mention thieves' cant or have additional rules for the "all" language. Though the class feature does not describe it like a language, but more like a cipher.
The finer points of NPC stats are pretty much up to the DM. As far as RAW goes, yes (probably).
As a general rule, you should assume a god can understand absolutely anything, whether or not it's even in a language, let alone something as trivial to understand as Thieves' Cant. The list of things a god will fail to decipher is not long.
Now I’m digging into 3.5 mechanics. Any deity of divine rank 1 or higher (lesser rank or higher) can understand, speak, and read any language, including nonverbal languages. The deity can speak directly to any being within one mile of itself per divine rank.
Auril is a lesser deity but was not ranked so she is between a 1-5. Use that as you will. I can find nothing in 5E that would change how Gods "perceive" around them or use of their remote senses.
Well, there are explicitly gods of thieves and of thievery. I'd say they can for sure, and the others can't. Because that sounds like fun to me.
I would not assume that at all. You have a very specific, culturally western concept of a God. Every god is not an all powerful 'creator' gods. Nor is every God more intelligent than a human. Consider Cthulhu. That is clearly a God that would not understand practically anything about us. Or the various gods tricked by Brer Rabbit (Africa) or the similar Raven vs Coyote stories from the First Nations people of America.
Nature Gods, War Gods etc. COULD possibly know Thieves Cant, but I do not see a guarantee. A god that focuses on languages, knowledge, magic, cities, trickery, rogues, etc. should definitely know it. But not a Lava God, Forest God, Alien invading God, etc.
I would say that RAW thieves' cant is a language like any other; it doesn't really matter if it's intentionally obtuse or hard to learn. My way of thinking about it is that what deities actually understand is meaning or intent, the actual language is irrelevant. I would say this would also applies if you try to communicate euphemistically in common (like Mog_Dracov's example of cockney rhyming slang 😉).
If you don't want Auril to hear you, then don't speak; if you (or more specifically, your characters) think she can't see you, or has a limited view, then you could try written language instead. Otherwise you need to find some other way to communicate (telepathy, if you have it), or limit your communication to things that don't matter if Auril learns of them (discuss secrets when you know you're not being observed).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.