First round would be enough, as you'll probably find a total cover, hide using a bonus action and retreat, if a player is using all his actions and bonus actions for dash, that probably means he wants to escape anyway. If you add shadowtouched to the miixed he'll probably just cast invis and run away i guess... As for initiative, an 17 level rogue character probably maxed his dex and he might have even gone beyond 20 ability score by that level with a tome, he'd probably get alert feat too since he won't have access to elusive feature of rogue, and he might as well have mariner fighting style (and if allowed scout archetype from archived ua[who does not love natural explorer], otherwise eldritch knight[casting multiple spells per round is always fun]), and items like boots of speed are probably already to eacy to get for such characters anyway.... So what i mean is this character is far from being the fastest character yet it can use multiple dashes can have access to spells like longstrider and pass without trace via wood elf magic(which is the prefered race of this build if you are after a scoutish character, or a character which can function in survival settings too i guess)...
With feats like mobility, alertness, woodelf magic, shadow touched, you might get yourself a quite fast and versatile fighter scout/rogue thief, suitable for hit and run tactics. (yeah rogue scout works better for this theme, i know though, just gave thief example since ops question was about Dash). Also haste spell can be used for extra dash too in some other builds...
People thing they can multiple over and over. When it is only the base speed in question.
Tabaxi 30 ft duple your movement. Is 60. Then dash only ats extra 30 ft not 60. And action dash is only another 30 not 3x60
Dash is at your movement not what is already.
If you get a spell that says at 10 ft movement to your speed that is different. It is not move again
The reason people often discuss/play it this way is because the second sentence from the Dash action tells us: "The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers." and they take something like the Tabaxi Feline Agility trait to be a modifier to their base speed. Whether this is true or not in the case of Feline Agility is less clear as it states: "When you move on your turn in combat, you can double your speed until the end of the turn." and its language is less direct compared to something like Longstrider or Boots of Speed. However while its language isn't exactly the same as the other examples I listed it is still clearly a modifier to your speed, it just also requires the movement to occur on your turn and during combat. So this feature cannot be used outside of combat or in conjunction with the Ready action (when readying movement) or other reaction based movement that does not occur during your turn.
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game. If its just a cool character concept, then run it by the DM. If you are just trying to push the rules to their limit of breaking, there are plenty of ways to do that for any game, but that really breaks the RAI (and often RAF) for many gamers. When in doubt bring it up to the whole group to discuss if it would a fun thing for all involved, and runwith it if they say so (pun intended)
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Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
People thing they can multiple over and over. When it is only the base speed in question.
Tabaxi 30 ft duple your movement. Is 60. Then dash only ats extra 30 ft not 60. And action dash is only another 30 not 3x60
Dash is at your movement not what is already.
If you get a spell that says at 10 ft movement to your speed that is different. It is not move again
It is not only the base speed for Dash. Dash explicitly states "speed, after any modifiers".
Tabaxi Feline Agility: "Your reflexes and agility allow you to move with a burst of speed. When you move on your turn in combat, you can double your speed until the end of the turn. Once you use this trait, you can’t use it again until you move 0 feet on one of your turns."
The Tabaxi ability doubles their speed for the entire turn. Not just for their movement.
Dash: "When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers. With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash.
Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement by the same amount. If your speed of 30 feet is reduced to 15 feet, for instance, you can move up to 30 feet this turn if you dash."
Dash gives EXTRA movement for the turn equal to your speed AFTER applying any modifiers.
Tabaxi Feline Agility doubles their speed for the turn.
A Tabaxi with a 30' movement using Feline Agility can normally move 60'. If they dash they gain extra movement equal to their speed which is 60' for the turn - they gain 60' of extra movement. If it is a Tabaxi rogue who could use their cunning action to Dash as a bonus action they would get another extra movement of 60' from the bonus action Dash. In this case, the Tabaxi rogue using Feline Agility and two Dash action/bonus-action could move a total of 180'. If they were using boots of speed this would go to 360' of movement since boots of speed double the speed for the turn and these effects stack.
Bear in mind that like many creatures, Tabaxi do not have anything that can validly be referred to as their "speed" - one of the houserules every DM has to apply to 5E in session zero is how to apply speed modifiers to creatures, because creatures in general have speeds, not 1 speed. The consensus ruling most people use is that any modifier to your "speed" is instead a modifier to your speeds, so e.g. a Tabaxi with speeds Walk 40 Climb 30 that uses Feline Agility becomes Walk 80 Climb 60.
Because the Dash rules are also not written in a way that interacts properly with mixed speeds, a little while ago I posted on here asking how the community handles it, and overwhelmingly the answer was the intuitive one, so we have a consensus ruling there too: Dash (and presumably other movement modifiers, although I didn't ask about that in the thread) behaves like it modifies your speeds for determining movement. In other words, our Tabaxi above, when Dashing, has 80 feet of walking movement and 60 feet of climbing movement. As a result, our example Tabaxi, when Dashing twice and using Feline Agility, goes to Walk Movement 240 Climb Movement 180.
I'm inclined to say that Dash is taken as an Action OR as a Bonus Action. Limiting characters to move double their speed. Triple movement should be limited to Magical means. The benefit to the Rouge is that they can keep their Action. Which is a strong ability when you think about that. Not sure where I read it, but I think there is a rule somewhere that same abilities don't stack. E.g. Dual Class Fighter/Paladin Extra Attack, doesn't give 3 or 4 attacks (CL10 at F5/P5). It stays at 2 Attacks until you get Extra Attack 2 (F11).
Based on previous editions of D&D, Double Double is x3 not x4. Other RPG'S with multiple actions only allow one Dash/Run action per turn.
If Double Dash (90 ft) is allowed. This is an unlimited resource for a level 2 Rouge. For a Monk, it is a limited resource based on Ki and a Monk would have to be level 6 with conditions to break even with Unarmored Movement and a regular Dash Action. Double Double (x4) becomes game breaking very fast for a DM.
Once you start adding Miniatures or VTT, it becomes difficult to make a map big enough to keep a Rouge away.
If you start adding Tabaxi Rouge Monk etc. It becomes obscene. Considering that 30 ft/6 s (about 5 kph) is a reasonable movement speed compared to reality. You start maxing this stuff out with "RAW" for a level 2 Rouge, you have a Tier 1 Character that puts Usain Bolt to shame, (probably put a F1 car to shame). Okay its a fantasy setting, but at Level 2. No I'm not allowing that in any of my Campaigns. This is a rule that I think should be cleaned up. It bugs me a lot.
Here's my issue. 700 ft in a 6 second turn Equates to about 130 km/h. If you take that from a standing start, it means that the Characters final velocity would be about 260 km/h. Assuming that they are no slowing down at the end of the turn. If you assume standing start and stopping at the end of the turn, I won't calculate peak velocity (probably 520 kph). If you have an unarmored Tabaxi Monk/Rouge Cleric. What do you think will happen to an unprotected body hitting anything at that speed? I'm getting the Boys Season 1 flash backs but in reverse.
Given that D&D doesn't follow real-world physics, that's not much of a concern.
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Bear in mind that like many creatures, Tabaxi do not have anything that can validly be referred to as their "speed" - one of the houserules every DM has to apply to 5E in session zero is how to apply speed modifiers to creatures, because creatures in general have speeds, not 1 speed. The consensus ruling most people use is that any modifier to your "speed" is instead a modifier to your speeds, so e.g. a Tabaxi with speeds Walk 40 Climb 30 that uses Feline Agility becomes Walk 80 Climb 60.
Because the Dash rules are also not written in a way that interacts properly with mixed speeds, a little while ago I posted on here asking how the community handles it, and overwhelmingly the answer was the intuitive one, so we have a consensus ruling there too: Dash (and presumably other movement modifiers, although I didn't ask about that in the thread) behaves like it modifies your speeds for determining movement. In other words, our Tabaxi above, when Dashing, has 80 feet of walking movement and 60 feet of climbing movement. As a result, our example Tabaxi, when Dashing twice and using Feline Agility, goes to Walk Movement 240 Climb Movement 180.
I think this is one of the things they are addressing with the newer changes. The new Tabaxi traits from Monsters of the Multiverse give them a walking speed of 30 and a climbing speed that equals their walking speed. It's like that for all of the races that have multiple movement types listed; aarakocra and fairies have a walking speed of 30 and can fly at their walking speed while Sea Elf, Triton, and Water Genasi have walking speed of 30 and have swimming speed equal to their walking speed.
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game. If its just a cool character concept, then run it by the DM. If you are just trying to push the rules to their limit of breaking, there are plenty of ways to do that for any game, but that really breaks the RAI (and often RAF) for many gamers. When in doubt bring it up to the whole group to discuss if it would a fun thing for all involved, and runwith it if they say so (pun intended)
This ^ is great and, with it all in mind, let's have another look at the rules.
There's an argument to say that cunning action cannot provide a second effect of dash. Dash says:
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. ... With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash.
So, if you "gain extra movement for the current turn" is that your potential "extra movement" already gained [even in relation to a "cunning" potential bonus action application of the cunning action feature], or does a bonus action, cunning action allow you to "gain extra movement [on repeat] for the current turn" even on an "I can do this all day basis? Those are the kind of questions that would be relevant both for presiding GMs and players with rules analysis/realism in mind.
Cunning action says:
Starting at 2nd level, your quick thinking and agility allow you to move and act quickly. You can take a bonus action on each of your turns in combat. This action can be used only to take the Dash, Disengage, or Hide action.
So, does the cunning action facilitated "move ... quickly" mean you can move beyond the athleticism of others that have similar physical assets to your character or that "your quick thinking and agility allow you to" flow between movements quickly? I think that there's an argument that cunning action facilitates the economy of action suggested in the second case. For instance, cunning action can certainly enable a rogue to: shoot and hide; attack and disengage or attack and dash... though with that last of those being potentially dicier than those preceding. In the "shoot and hide" case, you can still move to your base maximum but in a way that allows you to cunningly hide, and in the "attack and disengage" case you can attack but in a way that allows you to move safely out of your adversaries' threatened areas. The actions have been cunningly facilitated without any "once per short rest" [pre level 17] type of "push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment", Action Surge.
So, can a 2nd-level rogue really go beyond normal limits without something such as haste magic, action surge, or the tabaxi (only after "you move 0 feet on one of your turns") feline agility"? Does cunning action really make rogues faster than unarmoured monks or [post extra attack] barbarians with their later gained Fast Movement? Is that what was intended? What sort of cunning is applied to these actions? Is it of the gamers? Not to say that this might not also be fine. There's always the fallback of rules as fun. If you want your rogues running faster than your monks and barbarians, it's your game.
While RAW states: " With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash", chief dev interprets (perhaps with reference to the wording) to say that rogues can outrun the mentioned barbs and monks:
But, this means the rogue outruns the "speedy" characters: barb (speed 40'), monk (speed 40 or 45'), and ranger (30', but ignore difficult terrain). the monk can go faster, but it costs ki. The wizard can do it, but it costs a spell slot. why is the rogue speed 90' ??
Part of the problem I have with Rouges being allowed to Move, Action Dash and Bonus Action Dash is it takes away form the Monk's or Wood Elf (or Movement feats) unique abilities.At a 0 resource cost. I kind of don't mind if a Monk does it, because it costs a Ki point. This is probably another reason why no-one plays a Monk. Better to level dip in Rouge.
Part of the problem I have with Rouges being allowed to Move, Action Dash and Bonus Action Dash is it takes away form the Monk's or Wood Elf (or Movement feats) unique abilities.At a 0 resource cost. I kind of don't mind if a Monk does it, because it costs a Ki point. This is probably another reason why no-one plays a Monk. Better to level dip in Rouge.
It doesn't really diminish the Monk though; they get +10 feet of movement speed at 2nd-level, so with a single dash your average Monk (with a base speed of 30 feet) can move 80 feet in a turn, or 120 feet with a double dash, by 6th-level they have a 45 foot movement speed for 90 feet with a single dash or 135 feet double dash etc. By 18th-level they can move faster than the single dashing Rogue (60 feet) using only their basic movement, outpace the double-dashing Rogue with a single dash (120 feet) or go a maximum of 180 feet when double dashing, and that's if you don't have an ally cast haste on you.
This is why Step of the Wind costs a Ki point, though I'm hoping we gain single dash as a bonus action in future (i.e- it should only cost Ki to double dash).
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Part of the problem I have with Rouges being allowed to Move, Action Dash and Bonus Action Dash is it takes away form the Monk's or Wood Elf (or Movement feats) unique abilities.At a 0 resource cost. I kind of don't mind if a Monk does it, because it costs a Ki point. This is probably another reason why no-one plays a Monk. Better to level dip in Rouge.
It doesn't really diminish the Monk though; they get +10 feet of movement speed at 2nd-level, so with a single dash your average Monk (with a base speed of 30 feet) can move 80 feet in a turn, or 120 feet with a double dash, ...
So a monk needs to spend scarce resources just to keep up (for just a single round) with a free-riding rogue even though the rules on rogues state that, "With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash." Sounds comparably quite diminishing to me. If a rogue flees from a monk, as long as the rogue can keep on something like a move, dash, dash sequence of action, the cost would be a few opportunity attacks until the monk is out of ki. If a monk flees from a rogue, then the monk may run but might still be less readily able to hide.
So a monk needs to spend scarce resources just to keep up (for just a single round) with a free-riding rogue even though the rules on rogues state that, "With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash." Sounds comparably quite diminishing to me. If a rogue flees from a monk, as long as the rogue can keep on something like a move, dash, dash sequence of action, the cost would be a few opportunity attacks until the monk is out of ki. If a monk flees from a rogue, then the monk may run but might still be less readily able to hide.
If you're going to ignore the bulk of what I said, why bother quoting me?
In the unlikely event that the Monk needs to flee from a Rogue (why?) for 1 Ki point they already have a lead of 20 or 30 feet (2-3x 40 feet vs. 2-3x 30 feet), it only takes two or three Ki to have such a large lead you can hide at your leisure (you can just Hide as an action since you've basically got an entire turn to do as you please, including getting even further away first, so you can also Ready an extra attack for when the Rogue finally shows up).
And once you've got 45 foot speed you're not spending the Ki just to keep pace, but to keep pace and have your full action available, meaning you can keep pace while punching the Rogue in the face the entire time, because they must use their action just to keep up with the single-dashing Monk. And if you'd rather save the Ki you can just single dash as an action to do the exact same thing they're doing while keeping your bonus action free instead (though there's not a lot you can do with it for free on top of a Dash action).
This is why a resource-free bonus action dash for a Monk is a stronger feature than on the Rogue, because for the Monk it will give them similar to or better than a Rogue's maximum speed, while leaving their full action free. I think Monks should still get this (again for single dashing only) because they're supposed to be skirmishers, but it's a much lower priority change compared to others things I'd like to see for the class.
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One thing to keep in mind is that the bonus action dash from being a rogue does not make them faster than other characters out of combat. Looking at the Chase rules in the DMG:
"Dashing
During the chase, a participant can freely use the Dash action a number of times equal to 3 + its Constitution modifier. Each additional Dash action it takes during the chase requires the creature to succeed on a DC 10 Constitution check at the end of its turn or gain one level of exhaustion.
A participant drops out of the chase if its exhaustion reaches level 5, since its speed becomes 0. A creature can remove the levels of exhaustion it gained during the chase by finishing a short or long rest."
In a chase, and presumably if a DM wants to use these rules in a more general fashion, use of Dash is limited to 3+con modifier before exhaustion effects may become a factor (though these are easier to lose than regular exhaustion). So although the rogue could dash twice in one turn of combat, the 40' movement monk will be faster in the long run.
Dash represents a short burst of speed, not a sustained effort. As such, I don't really see any issue with the rogue using it in combat to be faster than most other characters for a combat round or two.
There's an argument to say that cunning action cannot provide a second effect of dash. Dash says:
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. ... With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash.
So, if you "gain extra movement for the current turn" is that your potential "extra movement" already gained [even in relation to a "cunning" potential bonus action application of the cunning action feature], or does a bonus action, cunning action allow you to "gain extra movement [on repeat] for the current turn" even on an "I can do this all day basis? Those are the kind of questions that would be relevant both for presiding GMs and players with rules analysis/realism in mind.
You did a very poor job of highlighting the main part of the rule, which you conveniently chopped out with an elipsis:
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers. With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash.
The part that I've bolded indicates the actual rule. The "for example" is working on the basis of a single dash.
First round would be enough, as you'll probably find a total cover, hide using a bonus action and retreat, if a player is using all his actions and bonus actions for dash, that probably means he wants to escape anyway. If you add shadowtouched to the miixed he'll probably just cast invis and run away i guess... As for initiative, an 17 level rogue character probably maxed his dex and he might have even gone beyond 20 ability score by that level with a tome, he'd probably get alert feat too since he won't have access to elusive feature of rogue, and he might as well have mariner fighting style (and if allowed scout archetype from archived ua[who does not love natural explorer], otherwise eldritch knight[casting multiple spells per round is always fun]), and items like boots of speed are probably already to eacy to get for such characters anyway.... So what i mean is this character is far from being the fastest character yet it can use multiple dashes can have access to spells like longstrider and pass without trace via wood elf magic(which is the prefered race of this build if you are after a scoutish character, or a character which can function in survival settings too i guess)...
With feats like mobility, alertness, woodelf magic, shadow touched, you might get yourself a quite fast and versatile fighter scout/rogue thief, suitable for hit and run tactics. (yeah rogue scout works better for this theme, i know though, just gave thief example since ops question was about Dash). Also haste spell can be used for extra dash too in some other builds...
People thing they can multiple over and over. When it is only the base speed in question.
Tabaxi 30 ft duple your movement. Is 60. Then dash only ats extra 30 ft not 60. And action dash is only another 30 not 3x60
Dash is at your movement not what is already.
If you get a spell that says at 10 ft movement to your speed that is different. It is not move again
The reason people often discuss/play it this way is because the second sentence from the Dash action tells us: "The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers." and they take something like the Tabaxi Feline Agility trait to be a modifier to their base speed. Whether this is true or not in the case of Feline Agility is less clear as it states: "When you move on your turn in combat, you can double your speed until the end of the turn." and its language is less direct compared to something like Longstrider or Boots of Speed. However while its language isn't exactly the same as the other examples I listed it is still clearly a modifier to your speed, it just also requires the movement to occur on your turn and during combat. So this feature cannot be used outside of combat or in conjunction with the Ready action (when readying movement) or other reaction based movement that does not occur during your turn.
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game. If its just a cool character concept, then run it by the DM. If you are just trying to push the rules to their limit of breaking, there are plenty of ways to do that for any game, but that really breaks the RAI (and often RAF) for many gamers. When in doubt bring it up to the whole group to discuss if it would a fun thing for all involved, and run with it if they say so (pun intended)
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
It is not only the base speed for Dash. Dash explicitly states "speed, after any modifiers".
Tabaxi Feline Agility: "Your reflexes and agility allow you to move with a burst of speed. When you move on your turn in combat, you can double your speed until the end of the turn. Once you use this trait, you can’t use it again until you move 0 feet on one of your turns."
The Tabaxi ability doubles their speed for the entire turn. Not just for their movement.
Dash: "When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers. With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash.
Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement by the same amount. If your speed of 30 feet is reduced to 15 feet, for instance, you can move up to 30 feet this turn if you dash."
Dash gives EXTRA movement for the turn equal to your speed AFTER applying any modifiers.
Tabaxi Feline Agility doubles their speed for the turn.
A Tabaxi with a 30' movement using Feline Agility can normally move 60'. If they dash they gain extra movement equal to their speed which is 60' for the turn - they gain 60' of extra movement. If it is a Tabaxi rogue who could use their cunning action to Dash as a bonus action they would get another extra movement of 60' from the bonus action Dash. In this case, the Tabaxi rogue using Feline Agility and two Dash action/bonus-action could move a total of 180'. If they were using boots of speed this would go to 360' of movement since boots of speed double the speed for the turn and these effects stack.
yes you are right. i did not get the wording of the Tabaxi right.
Bear in mind that like many creatures, Tabaxi do not have anything that can validly be referred to as their "speed" - one of the houserules every DM has to apply to 5E in session zero is how to apply speed modifiers to creatures, because creatures in general have speeds, not 1 speed. The consensus ruling most people use is that any modifier to your "speed" is instead a modifier to your speeds, so e.g. a Tabaxi with speeds Walk 40 Climb 30 that uses Feline Agility becomes Walk 80 Climb 60.
Because the Dash rules are also not written in a way that interacts properly with mixed speeds, a little while ago I posted on here asking how the community handles it, and overwhelmingly the answer was the intuitive one, so we have a consensus ruling there too: Dash (and presumably other movement modifiers, although I didn't ask about that in the thread) behaves like it modifies your speeds for determining movement. In other words, our Tabaxi above, when Dashing, has 80 feet of walking movement and 60 feet of climbing movement. As a result, our example Tabaxi, when Dashing twice and using Feline Agility, goes to Walk Movement 240 Climb Movement 180.
I'm inclined to say that Dash is taken as an Action OR as a Bonus Action. Limiting characters to move double their speed. Triple movement should be limited to Magical means. The benefit to the Rouge is that they can keep their Action. Which is a strong ability when you think about that. Not sure where I read it, but I think there is a rule somewhere that same abilities don't stack. E.g. Dual Class Fighter/Paladin Extra Attack, doesn't give 3 or 4 attacks (CL10 at F5/P5). It stays at 2 Attacks until you get Extra Attack 2 (F11).
Based on previous editions of D&D, Double Double is x3 not x4. Other RPG'S with multiple actions only allow one Dash/Run action per turn.
If Double Dash (90 ft) is allowed. This is an unlimited resource for a level 2 Rouge. For a Monk, it is a limited resource based on Ki and a Monk would have to be level 6 with conditions to break even with Unarmored Movement and a regular Dash Action. Double Double (x4) becomes game breaking very fast for a DM.
Once you start adding Miniatures or VTT, it becomes difficult to make a map big enough to keep a Rouge away.
If you start adding Tabaxi Rouge Monk etc. It becomes obscene. Considering that 30 ft/6 s (about 5 kph) is a reasonable movement speed compared to reality. You start maxing this stuff out with "RAW" for a level 2 Rouge, you have a Tier 1 Character that puts Usain Bolt to shame, (probably put a F1 car to shame). Okay its a fantasy setting, but at Level 2. No I'm not allowing that in any of my Campaigns. This is a rule that I think should be cleaned up. It bugs me a lot.
Here's my issue. 700 ft in a 6 second turn Equates to about 130 km/h. If you take that from a standing start, it means that the Characters final velocity would be about 260 km/h. Assuming that they are no slowing down at the end of the turn. If you assume standing start and stopping at the end of the turn, I won't calculate peak velocity (probably 520 kph). If you have an unarmored Tabaxi Monk/Rouge Cleric. What do you think will happen to an unprotected body hitting anything at that speed? I'm getting the Boys Season 1 flash backs but in reverse.
Given that D&D doesn't follow real-world physics, that's not much of a concern.
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I think this is one of the things they are addressing with the newer changes. The new Tabaxi traits from Monsters of the Multiverse give them a walking speed of 30 and a climbing speed that equals their walking speed. It's like that for all of the races that have multiple movement types listed; aarakocra and fairies have a walking speed of 30 and can fly at their walking speed while Sea Elf, Triton, and Water Genasi have walking speed of 30 and have swimming speed equal to their walking speed.
This ^ is great and, with it all in mind, let's have another look at the rules.
There's an argument to say that cunning action cannot provide a second effect of dash. Dash says:
So, if you "gain extra movement for the current turn" is that your potential "extra movement" already gained [even in relation to a "cunning" potential bonus action application of the cunning action feature], or does a bonus action, cunning action allow you to "gain extra movement [on repeat] for the current turn" even on an "I can do this all day basis? Those are the kind of questions that would be relevant both for presiding GMs and players with rules analysis/realism in mind.
Cunning action says:
So, does the cunning action facilitated "move ... quickly" mean you can move beyond the athleticism of others that have similar physical assets to your character or that "your quick thinking and agility allow you to" flow between movements quickly? I think that there's an argument that cunning action facilitates the economy of action suggested in the second case. For instance, cunning action can certainly enable a rogue to: shoot and hide; attack and disengage or attack and dash... though with that last of those being potentially dicier than those preceding. In the "shoot and hide" case, you can still move to your base maximum but in a way that allows you to cunningly hide, and in the "attack and disengage" case you can attack but in a way that allows you to move safely out of your adversaries' threatened areas. The actions have been cunningly facilitated without any "once per short rest" [pre level 17] type of "push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment", Action Surge.
So, can a 2nd-level rogue really go beyond normal limits without something such as haste magic, action surge, or the tabaxi (only after "you move 0 feet on one of your turns") feline agility"? Does cunning action really make rogues faster than unarmoured monks or [post extra attack] barbarians with their later gained Fast Movement? Is that what was intended? What sort of cunning is applied to these actions? Is it of the gamers? Not to say that this might not also be fine. There's always the fallback of rules as fun. If you want your rogues running faster than your monks and barbarians, it's your game.
While RAW states: " With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash", chief dev interprets (perhaps with reference to the wording) to say that rogues can outrun the mentioned barbs and monks:
Part of the problem I have with Rouges being allowed to Move, Action Dash and Bonus Action Dash is it takes away form the Monk's or Wood Elf (or Movement feats) unique abilities.At a 0 resource cost. I kind of don't mind if a Monk does it, because it costs a Ki point. This is probably another reason why no-one plays a Monk. Better to level dip in Rouge.
It doesn't really diminish the Monk though; they get +10 feet of movement speed at 2nd-level, so with a single dash your average Monk (with a base speed of 30 feet) can move 80 feet in a turn, or 120 feet with a double dash, by 6th-level they have a 45 foot movement speed for 90 feet with a single dash or 135 feet double dash etc. By 18th-level they can move faster than the single dashing Rogue (60 feet) using only their basic movement, outpace the double-dashing Rogue with a single dash (120 feet) or go a maximum of 180 feet when double dashing, and that's if you don't have an ally cast haste on you.
This is why Step of the Wind costs a Ki point, though I'm hoping we gain single dash as a bonus action in future (i.e- it should only cost Ki to double dash).
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So a monk needs to spend scarce resources just to keep up (for just a single round) with a free-riding rogue even though the rules on rogues state that, "With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash." Sounds comparably quite diminishing to me.
If a rogue flees from a monk, as long as the rogue can keep on something like a move, dash, dash sequence of action, the cost would be a few opportunity attacks until the monk is out of ki.
If a monk flees from a rogue, then the monk may run but might still be less readily able to hide.
If you're going to ignore the bulk of what I said, why bother quoting me?
In the unlikely event that the Monk needs to flee from a Rogue (why?) for 1 Ki point they already have a lead of 20 or 30 feet (2-3x 40 feet vs. 2-3x 30 feet), it only takes two or three Ki to have such a large lead you can hide at your leisure (you can just Hide as an action since you've basically got an entire turn to do as you please, including getting even further away first, so you can also Ready an extra attack for when the Rogue finally shows up).
And once you've got 45 foot speed you're not spending the Ki just to keep pace, but to keep pace and have your full action available, meaning you can keep pace while punching the Rogue in the face the entire time, because they must use their action just to keep up with the single-dashing Monk. And if you'd rather save the Ki you can just single dash as an action to do the exact same thing they're doing while keeping your bonus action free instead (though there's not a lot you can do with it for free on top of a Dash action).
This is why a resource-free bonus action dash for a Monk is a stronger feature than on the Rogue, because for the Monk it will give them similar to or better than a Rogue's maximum speed, while leaving their full action free. I think Monks should still get this (again for single dashing only) because they're supposed to be skirmishers, but it's a much lower priority change compared to others things I'd like to see for the class.
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One thing to keep in mind is that the bonus action dash from being a rogue does not make them faster than other characters out of combat. Looking at the Chase rules in the DMG:
"Dashing
During the chase, a participant can freely use the Dash action a number of times equal to 3 + its Constitution modifier. Each additional Dash action it takes during the chase requires the creature to succeed on a DC 10 Constitution check at the end of its turn or gain one level of exhaustion.
A participant drops out of the chase if its exhaustion reaches level 5, since its speed becomes 0. A creature can remove the levels of exhaustion it gained during the chase by finishing a short or long rest."
In a chase, and presumably if a DM wants to use these rules in a more general fashion, use of Dash is limited to 3+con modifier before exhaustion effects may become a factor (though these are easier to lose than regular exhaustion). So although the rogue could dash twice in one turn of combat, the 40' movement monk will be faster in the long run.
Dash represents a short burst of speed, not a sustained effort. As such, I don't really see any issue with the rogue using it in combat to be faster than most other characters for a combat round or two.
You did a very poor job of highlighting the main part of the rule, which you conveniently chopped out with an elipsis:
The part that I've bolded indicates the actual rule. The "for example" is working on the basis of a single dash.
I know this is a necro, but it's so silly everyone kept highlighting "up to 60" instead of "FOR EXAMPLE".