Well long jump does have the rule for adding height to it you could hypothetically reverse engineer that or take it to the extreme.
With real world jumping you need a certain amount of height to perform long jumps roughly 1/4 the length of the jump (very roughly and the better you get the better the ratio gets).
when you jump...does the jump end at the apex of the curve? ...or does the jump end when you land? If it ends when you land, there's no fall damage because you're not falling...you're completing your jump.
And according to the PHB, landing is part of the jump.
nah, i suspect most physics professors would realize even the pretense of following real world physics has absolutely no place in D&D.
I disagree. I think we should assume things for the most part operate in D&D the same way we expect them to operate in real life, unless there is a rule or game feature that changes that expectation. Otherwise, we find ourselves searching for rules that don't exist for even the most banal aspects of the world around us.
nah, i suspect most physics professors would realize even the pretense of following real world physics has absolutely no place in D&D.
I disagree. I think we should assume things for the most part operate in D&D the same way we expect them to operate in real life, unless there is a rule or game feature that changes that expectation. Otherwise, we find ourselves searching for rules that don't exist for even the most banal aspects of the world around us.
But that is half the issue with this thread. Trying to apply real world physics to something like D&D jumping is like applying it to comic books. It all breaks down if you think about it too hard. It is better to just accept that characters can do what they can do regardless of what would happen in reality.
but characters in comics DO jump like normal people unless noted otherwise. only the exceptions are the exceptions.
further if we extrapolate your statement show me the rules as written for gravity. for literally every mundanity to mundane to make the rules books ect ect ect.
but characters in comics DO jump like normal people unless noted otherwise. only the exceptions are the exceptions.
further if we extrapolate your statement show me the rules as written for gravity. for literally every mundanity to mundane to make the rules books ect ect ect.
Again, you are thinking way to hard about this. When your character jumps, it moves from one place to another the designated distance. How? Because it just can.
The game is filled with pages of things that real world physics says can't exist or happen. Explain the physics behind Dragon flight. Explain how Giants are able to stand up under their own weight. Explain how Monks are able to fall off a 50 cliff and walk away without so much as a scratch. Explain how invisible creatures see anything. Explain how a Fireball can create enough heat to incinerate any human in a 20 foot radius, but if you are even an inch out side that radius you are completely unharmed.
It is a game, not a simulation. Don't over think it.
Not overthinking things is the point. The rules are full of pages on how things work differently in the world of D&D. In the absence of such rules, it's simplest to just default to our reality-based expectations.
Not overthinking things is the point. The rules are full of pages on how things work differently in the world of D&D. In the absence of such rules, it's simplest to just default to our reality-based expectations.
I don't disagree with this. All I am trying to say is if you attempt to reconcile things like jumping in D&D using real world physics, it just won't work.
I eventually just decided that if something is strong enough to jump super high, it's strong enough to withstand the impact of landing. But this only applies to when the entity falls a number of feet equal to or less than how high it jumped.
I eventually just decided that if something is strong enough to jump super high, it's strong enough to withstand the impact of landing. But this only applies to when the entity falls a number of feet equal to or less than how high it jumped.
I also ruled that jumping down reduces the distance used for determining fall damage by the vertical distance jumped.
I eventually just decided that if something is strong enough to jump super high, it's strong enough to withstand the impact of landing. But this only applies to when the entity falls a number of feet equal to or less than how high it jumped.
I also ruled that jumping down reduces the distance used for determining fall damage by the vertical distance jumped.
Depends on circumstance. Jumping down a distance is different from falling down a distance. One, you are prepared to land, the other maybe not so much.
I am completely uncertain whether a person that can jump 10 feet will take less damage than a person that can't if they both fall 20 feet.
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-Vedexent
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"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I eventually just decided that if something is strong enough to jump super high, it's strong enough to withstand the impact of landing. But this only applies to when the entity falls a number of feet equal to or less than how high it jumped.
I also ruled that jumping down reduces the distance used for determining fall damage by the vertical distance jumped.
Depends on circumstance. Jumping down a distance is different from falling down a distance. One, you are prepared to land, the other maybe not so much.
I am completely uncertain whether a person that can jump 10 feet will take less damage than a person that can't if they both fall 20 feet.
If they fall then they fall, but if they intentionally jump down, I reduce the distance. Keep in mind that the maximum vertical distance for a standing jump is 5 feet, so it really only reduces the damage by at most 1d6. It’s not rocking the world, but it is giving them a bone.
I feel like, in regard to physics, if your legs can produce the force to overcome the constant force of gravity to such a degree as to propel you over 10 feet in the air without damaging yourself they would be able to absorb the same force returned to them so long as you land on your feet. I would (as a DM) probably throw in a check to make sure the character lands correctly since unlike a kangaroo they aren't used to moving around like this. The rules for falling are written with the idea that the character is operating within normal jumping limits and aren't parkour masters either. As long as they land on their feet their legs should absorb the impact whether by magic or pure strength. The lvl 3 ability of the Glory Paladin would create a very life threatening situation by adding a flat 10 feet to high jumps as written in the description of Peerless Athlete. The text does mention the consumption of movement from these jumps so requiring a player to stay within their total distance might determine damage infliction or not. I would agree with others who have said that unless an ability states that a character has a risk of falling with improper use of said ability that there should be no risk of doing so.
I feel like, in regard to physics, if your legs can produce the force to overcome the constant force of gravity to such a degree as to propel you over 10 feet in the air without damaging yourself they would be able to absorb the same force returned to them so long as you land on your feet.
Yes, but there are fundamentally at least 2 distinct ways to handle "absorb the same force" (damage threshold and damage reduction, in terms of handling damage this way), and that can be applied to jump distances in ways already discussed in this very necroed thread, if you're looking for ways to homebrew:
As suggested here, you can have falling occur only when movement runs out and have the fall distance be calculated from where movement ended; this is basically damage reduction applied to falling distance, using remaining movement from the apex of the jump as the reduction mechanic. Similarly, you could subtract a jumper's jump height from fall distance instead (as suggested here) or in addition.
Note that Monk Slow Fall is reductive, but instead applies damage reduction directly to falling damage. You could always work out some similar mechanic if you want to retain falls being chaotic (because Xd6 damage means any amount of reduction will have a distance you can fall where you don't know if you'll reduce it all or not).
As suggested here, you can have falling occur only when you fall farther than your jump height. This is basically damage threshold applied to falling distance, using jump distance as the threshold mechanic. Similarly, you could use remaining movement instead or in addition.
The feather fall spell both reduces your maximum falling speed to 60' and works like a damage threshold of infinity, so you simply don't take falling damage (even though you do fall). You could always work out a damage threshold instead of a distance threshold.
These two ideas can be combined; for example, you can threshold using movement (so by definition you fall only if you run out of movement before landing) and reduce using jump height (so if your Strength is at least 14 and this is a running jump, you reduce your fall distance by 5' when you do fall - and for all jumps, you reduce your fall distance by 1', which can be enough to remove an entire damage die if your fall height is a multiple of 10).
Which of the above you like depends on your opinion of whether Dash or other sources of additional movement without additional strength should let you land higher jumps, whether a Belt of Storm Giant Strength or other source of additional jump distance without additional movement (e.g.jump) should let you land higher jumps, and in both cases, if you answer yes, exactly how.
No one in real life (or fiction!) uses jumping to go really high up and then right back down to the same spot. That's some obvious combat cheese, and can be rightfully ignored if you ask me.
Treat it like the Zelda games treat jumping. It only works if there's somewhere to jump TO. Suddenly, you don't have to worry about this crap. Are you technically limiting player freedom? Yes. Are you limiting it in any practical way? I don't think so.
Then the only question is, does the ability to jump up 20ft confer an ability to take no damage from an unrelated 20ft fall? Just from having powerful legs? And obviously the answer is no.
Did some one call for a physics teacher? As TexasDevin said the rules describe the exceptions to everyday physics. So let’s take a look at real world physics for a few minutes. In a pure vertical jump Your legs create a force when you jump pushing you up with some sort of initial velocity. That velocity is is eaten away by gravity as you jump up (down later) until your velocity reaches zero at the top of the jump. From there you accelerate downwards due to gravity until you reach the same initial velocity you started with at the instant of contact with the ground where you started from. So if you had the strength to actually jump up vertically 20’ you would have the energy absorption ability to land (on your feet) from a 20’ drop without harm. As you transition from pure vertical towards horizontal you exchange height for distance based on the sine and cosine of the angle of the jump getting the maximum distance at a 30* angle. So if a hulk jumping character chooses to do high leaps by keeping a high angle they can but their distance with each jump will be fairly minimal. (At 80* they could jump 19.6’ up and 3.5’ out ( sine for height, cosine for distance) on the other hand at 30* they would jump 10’ up and 17’ out.
The real problem isn’t jumping up it’s jumping down and or falling. For falling I would want an acrobatics roll in many cases to get oriented feet down for the landing. Then the question is the stopping acceleration. If you are just trying to land standing using your legs and hips as shock absorbers then you are pretty well limited to the distance of about 10’ and then you start taking damage. As a DM i rule that if you make the acrobatics/dexterity check you take no damage at 10’ but start taking damage after that, if you fail the roll you take damage from the 10’ fall as you landed improperly. However, there is something in physics called Impulse which affects the acceleration. If you can find a way to extend the time or area over which the force acts - say by going into a roll or using your arms and hands to slap the ground as you impact the acceleration or impact pressures are lowered making the fall more survivable - this is the monk’s “slow fall” ability. One I can attest to personally after surviving both a 30’ drop by collapsing into a roll and being hit on a bike by a car with a 40mph speed differential and going into a roll then walking away unharmed from both.
given that the world record high jump is @8.5 feet, and long jump is 29.3 feet the hulksteer must be using some sort of magic and that magic should be allowing the survival on landing in most cases. Finally a reminder that the max fall distance in 1 round (500’) is basically the falling distance for a 6 second period under 1G acceleration. My 30’ fall represents slightly more than 1 second of fall.
Well long jump does have the rule for adding height to it you could hypothetically reverse engineer that or take it to the extreme.
With real world jumping you need a certain amount of height to perform long jumps roughly 1/4 the length of the jump (very roughly and the better you get the better the ratio gets).
when you jump...does the jump end at the apex of the curve? ...or does the jump end when you land? If it ends when you land, there's no fall damage because you're not falling...you're completing your jump.
And according to the PHB, landing is part of the jump.
imo
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Physics professors would literally slap u right now.
nah, i suspect most physics professors would realize even the pretense of following real world physics has absolutely no place in D&D.
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I disagree. I think we should assume things for the most part operate in D&D the same way we expect them to operate in real life, unless there is a rule or game feature that changes that expectation. Otherwise, we find ourselves searching for rules that don't exist for even the most banal aspects of the world around us.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Not gonna lie, I abandoned this thread.
But that is half the issue with this thread. Trying to apply real world physics to something like D&D jumping is like applying it to comic books. It all breaks down if you think about it too hard. It is better to just accept that characters can do what they can do regardless of what would happen in reality.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
but characters in comics DO jump like normal people unless noted otherwise. only the exceptions are the exceptions.
further if we extrapolate your statement show me the rules as written for gravity. for literally every mundanity to mundane to make the rules books ect ect ect.
Again, you are thinking way to hard about this. When your character jumps, it moves from one place to another the designated distance. How? Because it just can.
The game is filled with pages of things that real world physics says can't exist or happen. Explain the physics behind Dragon flight. Explain how Giants are able to stand up under their own weight. Explain how Monks are able to fall off a 50 cliff and walk away without so much as a scratch. Explain how invisible creatures see anything. Explain how a Fireball can create enough heat to incinerate any human in a 20 foot radius, but if you are even an inch out side that radius you are completely unharmed.
It is a game, not a simulation. Don't over think it.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Not overthinking things is the point. The rules are full of pages on how things work differently in the world of D&D. In the absence of such rules, it's simplest to just default to our reality-based expectations.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I don't disagree with this. All I am trying to say is if you attempt to reconcile things like jumping in D&D using real world physics, it just won't work.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I eventually just decided that if something is strong enough to jump super high, it's strong enough to withstand the impact of landing. But this only applies to when the entity falls a number of feet equal to or less than how high it jumped.
yes it will it works alot better than your long jump being a levitation from one point to another.
I also ruled that jumping down reduces the distance used for determining fall damage by the vertical distance jumped.
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Depends on circumstance. Jumping down a distance is different from falling down a distance. One, you are prepared to land, the other maybe not so much.
I am completely uncertain whether a person that can jump 10 feet will take less damage than a person that can't if they both fall 20 feet.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
If they fall then they fall, but if they intentionally jump down, I reduce the distance. Keep in mind that the maximum vertical distance for a standing jump is 5 feet, so it really only reduces the damage by at most 1d6. It’s not rocking the world, but it is giving them a bone.
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I feel like, in regard to physics, if your legs can produce the force to overcome the constant force of gravity to such a degree as to propel you over 10 feet in the air without damaging yourself they would be able to absorb the same force returned to them so long as you land on your feet. I would (as a DM) probably throw in a check to make sure the character lands correctly since unlike a kangaroo they aren't used to moving around like this. The rules for falling are written with the idea that the character is operating within normal jumping limits and aren't parkour masters either. As long as they land on their feet their legs should absorb the impact whether by magic or pure strength. The lvl 3 ability of the Glory Paladin would create a very life threatening situation by adding a flat 10 feet to high jumps as written in the description of Peerless Athlete. The text does mention the consumption of movement from these jumps so requiring a player to stay within their total distance might determine damage infliction or not. I would agree with others who have said that unless an ability states that a character has a risk of falling with improper use of said ability that there should be no risk of doing so.
Yes, but there are fundamentally at least 2 distinct ways to handle "absorb the same force" (damage threshold and damage reduction, in terms of handling damage this way), and that can be applied to jump distances in ways already discussed in this very necroed thread, if you're looking for ways to homebrew:
Which of the above you like depends on your opinion of whether Dash or other sources of additional movement without additional strength should let you land higher jumps, whether a Belt of Storm Giant Strength or other source of additional jump distance without additional movement (e.g.jump) should let you land higher jumps, and in both cases, if you answer yes, exactly how.
No one in real life (or fiction!) uses jumping to go really high up and then right back down to the same spot. That's some obvious combat cheese, and can be rightfully ignored if you ask me.
Treat it like the Zelda games treat jumping. It only works if there's somewhere to jump TO. Suddenly, you don't have to worry about this crap. Are you technically limiting player freedom? Yes. Are you limiting it in any practical way? I don't think so.
Then the only question is, does the ability to jump up 20ft confer an ability to take no damage from an unrelated 20ft fall? Just from having powerful legs? And obviously the answer is no.
Did some one call for a physics teacher? As TexasDevin said the rules describe the exceptions to everyday physics. So let’s take a look at real world physics for a few minutes. In a pure vertical jump Your legs create a force when you jump pushing you up with some sort of initial velocity. That velocity is is eaten away by gravity as you jump up (down later) until your velocity reaches zero at the top of the jump. From there you accelerate downwards due to gravity until you reach the same initial velocity you started with at the instant of contact with the ground where you started from. So if you had the strength to actually jump up vertically 20’ you would have the energy absorption ability to land (on your feet) from a 20’ drop without harm. As you transition from pure vertical towards horizontal you exchange height for distance based on the sine and cosine of the angle of the jump getting the maximum distance at a 30* angle. So if a hulk jumping character chooses to do high leaps by keeping a high angle they can but their distance with each jump will be fairly minimal. (At 80* they could jump 19.6’ up and 3.5’ out ( sine for height, cosine for distance) on the other hand at 30* they would jump 10’ up and 17’ out.
The real problem isn’t jumping up it’s jumping down and or falling. For falling I would want an acrobatics roll in many cases to get oriented feet down for the landing. Then the question is the stopping acceleration. If you are just trying to land standing using your legs and hips as shock absorbers then you are pretty well limited to the distance of about 10’ and then you start taking damage. As a DM i rule that if you make the acrobatics/dexterity check you take no damage at 10’ but start taking damage after that, if you fail the roll you take damage from the 10’ fall as you landed improperly. However, there is something in physics called Impulse which affects the acceleration. If you can find a way to extend the time or area over which the force acts - say by going into a roll or using your arms and hands to slap the ground as you impact the acceleration or impact pressures are lowered making the fall more survivable - this is the monk’s “slow fall” ability. One I can attest to personally after surviving both a 30’ drop by collapsing into a roll and being hit on a bike by a car with a 40mph speed differential and going into a roll then walking away unharmed from both.
given that the world record high jump is @8.5 feet, and long jump is 29.3 feet the hulksteer must be using some sort of magic and that magic should be allowing the survival on landing in most cases. Finally a reminder that the max fall distance in 1 round (500’) is basically the falling distance for a 6 second period under 1G acceleration. My 30’ fall represents slightly more than 1 second of fall.
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