A question came up today because I think our DM is not being as rigid as he may need to be. If you cast a concentration spell you need to concentrate to "feed" the spell into additional rounds. If you decide to cast a new spell, does this automatically break your concentration on your current spell? I always understood magic to be an activity that required deep concentration so I would think you couldn't adequately concentrate on two difficult activities at once. But I could be wrong. Lots of people text and drive, so ...
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Concentration is a misnomer in 5e. While concentrating on a spell, you can do anything you normally could without breaking concentration except cast another spell that needs your concentration.
It’s true that you can’t concentrate on two difficult activities at once, but most spellcasting isn’t difficult. Only casting another spell that requires your concentration breaks your concentration. Most spells do not require your concentration to cast (the duration of the spell will tell you if it requires concentration).
Other things can also break your concentration, most notably taking damage. I can imagine other things that might break a magician’s concentration as well (certain kinds of forced movement, for example).
I believe that the only things that prevent you from maintaining concentration on a spell are casting another spell that requires concentration, failing a constitution save to maintain concentration after taking damage, and being incapacitated.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Holding a spell is only an active... activity... for a very select few among all concentration spells. Outside of that small group, casting a different spell would have no impact on concentration, unless the new spell also requires concentration.
What spell is it, in particular? The only spell that you have to "feed" to keep active is Witch Bolt, which has the explicit text about using your action for anything other than the spell.
I was thinking about in the context of either myself (as a bard I case bane, heat metal, invisibility and silence) or our Cleric who casts concentration spells (Bane, Spiritual Weapon, and some other stuff) that require concentration. I had been casting bane early in combat and then often only casting Vicious Mockery to give an additional debuff to enemies, but our cleric is also casting bane and then other spells. As I started to think about it I thought maybe the act of casting is intense enough to require you to break concentration, but it seems it is more like texting and driving; you can do it as long as you don't take damage (get in a wreck). Thanks for the feedback. With the overwhelming indication that I'm taking it too seriously I'm pretty sure only concentration spells break concentration.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
One other thing breaks concentration. If you decide to hold your action by Readying a spell and waiting for the trigger (to release as a Reaction). Readying a spell requires concentration - even if the spell itself doesn't - and so will break concentration on whatever it was you were already concentrating on.
One other thing to note on this topic: Casting a spell that has a cast time of longer than one round also requires concentration for the entire casting of the spell.
One other thing to note on this topic: Casting a spell that has a cast time of longer than one round also requires concentration for the entire casting of the spell.
So you cannot cast a spell with a casting time of longer than one action while maintaining concentration on another spell? I did not know that.
One other thing to note on this topic: Casting a spell that has a cast time of longer than one round also requires concentration for the entire casting of the spell.
So you cannot cast a spell with a casting time of longer than one action while maintaining concentration on another spell? I did not know that.
Yep. You made me double check it, but in the longer casting time rules it mentions that you need to spend your action and maintain concentration for each round of the casting of the spell.
I was thinking about in the context of either myself (as a bard I case bane, heat metal, invisibility and silence) or our Cleric who casts concentration spells (Bane, Spiritual Weapon, and some other stuff) that require concentration. I had been casting bane early in combat and then often only casting Vicious Mockery to give an additional debuff to enemies, but our cleric is also casting bane and then other spells. As I started to think about it I thought maybe the act of casting is intense enough to require you to break concentration, but it seems it is more like texting and driving; you can do it as long as you don't take damage (get in a wreck). Thanks for the feedback. With the overwhelming indication that I'm taking it too seriously I'm pretty sure only concentration spells break concentration.
Question 1. What specific things require concentration?
Casting a spell that has Duration concentration. Casting a spell with a Casting Time longer than a single Action or Reaction. This includes ritual casting. Readying a spell. Using some features . E.g. Draconic Presence (Sorcerer, Draconic, 18), Visions of the Past (Cleric, Knowledge, 17), Invoke Duplicity (Cleric, Trickery, 2), Dark Delirium (Warlock, Archfey, 14), Minor Alchemy (Wizard, Transmutation, 2), Using some magic items. E.g. marvellous pigments, ring of djinni summoning, ring of shooting stars. Maybe Warlock pact weapon ritual. Maybe Paladin and Cleric holy water ritual.
Question 2. What can break concentration?
Using something else that requires concentration (automatic). Barbarian Rage (automatic). Taking damage (CON Save, DC is minimum of 10 and half damage). Gaining the incapacitated condition (automatic). Note that the paralyzed, petrified, stunned and unconscious conditions apply incapacitated. Being killed (automatic). The environment around you (CON save, DC varies). This includes environmental effects from spells like sleet storm (hat-tip WolfOfTheBees).
This is my problem with 5e. My second edition wizard would stack his spells to be more effective. Fly, invisibility, attack. Now that is impossible without magic items. I really like the new editions mechanics but this seems poorly designed. Our party is experimenting with changing the concentration rule. We just finished The Lost Mines of Philander and are probably going to start Tomb of Annihilation.
This is my problem with 5e. My second edition wizard would stack his spells to be more effective. Fly, invisibility, attack. Now that is impossible without magic items. I really like the new editions mechanics but this seems poorly designed. Our party is experimenting with changing the concentration rule. We just finished The Lost Mines of Philander and are probably going to start Tomb of Annihilation.
I can't imagine the players playing martial characters would be too happy about that. What do they get to make them more powerful to offset how much more powerful that would make the magic characters?
This is my problem with 5e. My second edition wizard would stack his spells to be more effective. Fly, invisibility, attack. Now that is impossible without magic items. I really like the new editions mechanics but this seems poorly designed. Our party is experimenting with changing the concentration rule. We just finished The Lost Mines of Philander and are probably going to start Tomb of Annihilation.
The change is completely intentional because in 2nd and 3rd Editions, the Linear Warrior, Quadratic Wizard trope was in full effect. By about 6th level, characters who weren't primary spellcasters could no longer hope to keep up with those who were.
Changing the duration of many (but not all) spells to Concentration was done to make it so that while wizards are still incredibly versatile, they can no longer layer on the buffs, debuffs, and utility spells all at once, thus forcing them to actually choose what they're going to use in a particular situation and keeping things more balanced between classes.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
This is my problem with 5e. My second edition wizard would stack his spells to be more effective. Fly, invisibility, attack. Now that is impossible without magic items. I really like the new editions mechanics but this seems poorly designed. Our party is experimenting with changing the concentration rule. We just finished The Lost Mines of Philander and are probably going to start Tomb of Annihilation.
When you are using the 5e concentration rule, what about the game play at your table makes you think that something is wrong? Do you really find your group getting trounced when fighting level appropriate challenges?
Or are you just missing something that you're used to? I really think it is the latter and that makes it a you issue, not a game issue.
The change is completely intentional because in 2nd and 3rd Editions, the Linear Warrior, Quadratic Wizard trope was in full effect. By about 6th level, characters who weren't primary spellcasters could no longer hope to keep up with those who were.
It also put an incredible amount of pressure around surprising your enemies so you can enter combat with a ridiculous array of buffs, and slowed the game down significantly from all the bookkeeping involved in tracking spell durations and bonuses.
If a spellcaster surprised your party in 3rd edition you might as well just forfeit that combat.
This is my problem with 5e. My second edition wizard would stack his spells to be more effective. Fly, invisibility, attack. Now that is impossible without magic items. I really like the new editions mechanics but this seems poorly designed. Our party is experimenting with changing the concentration rule. We just finished The Lost Mines of Philander and are probably going to start Tomb of Annihilation.
My limited experience with 5e is that having those magic items will happen pretty often, so we're back in the same situation.
I would have thought that the two counters to the layering would be enemy casters either layering the buffs on their own team or waiting two to three rounds allowing minions to soak damage and then cast dispel magic and you're starting over with several fewer spell slots and then it is their turn to put the mojo on.
Many moons ago, we never reached sixth and seventh level, so I never experienced the layering effect you describe so I can't say how it was handled back then.
On the whole I can see that the newer editions have figured out some of the problems with AD&D, mostly reducing the lethality of it. But for my part I'm not sure if it is balanced when I see the sort of min-max play that happens today.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
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A question came up today because I think our DM is not being as rigid as he may need to be. If you cast a concentration spell you need to concentrate to "feed" the spell into additional rounds. If you decide to cast a new spell, does this automatically break your concentration on your current spell? I always understood magic to be an activity that required deep concentration so I would think you couldn't adequately concentrate on two difficult activities at once. But I could be wrong. Lots of people text and drive, so ...
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Concentration is a misnomer in 5e. While concentrating on a spell, you can do anything you normally could without breaking concentration except cast another spell that needs your concentration.
It’s true that you can’t concentrate on two difficult activities at once, but most spellcasting isn’t difficult. Only casting another spell that requires your concentration breaks your concentration. Most spells do not require your concentration to cast (the duration of the spell will tell you if it requires concentration).
Other things can also break your concentration, most notably taking damage. I can imagine other things that might break a magician’s concentration as well (certain kinds of forced movement, for example).
I believe that the only things that prevent you from maintaining concentration on a spell are casting another spell that requires concentration, failing a constitution save to maintain concentration after taking damage, and being incapacitated.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Holding a spell is only an active... activity... for a very select few among all concentration spells. Outside of that small group, casting a different spell would have no impact on concentration, unless the new spell also requires concentration.
What spell is it, in particular? The only spell that you have to "feed" to keep active is Witch Bolt, which has the explicit text about using your action for anything other than the spell.
I was thinking about in the context of either myself (as a bard I case bane, heat metal, invisibility and silence) or our Cleric who casts concentration spells (Bane, Spiritual Weapon, and some other stuff) that require concentration. I had been casting bane early in combat and then often only casting Vicious Mockery to give an additional debuff to enemies, but our cleric is also casting bane and then other spells. As I started to think about it I thought maybe the act of casting is intense enough to require you to break concentration, but it seems it is more like texting and driving; you can do it as long as you don't take damage (get in a wreck). Thanks for the feedback. With the overwhelming indication that I'm taking it too seriously I'm pretty sure only concentration spells break concentration.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
One other thing breaks concentration. If you decide to hold your action by Readying a spell and waiting for the trigger (to release as a Reaction). Readying a spell requires concentration - even if the spell itself doesn't - and so will break concentration on whatever it was you were already concentrating on.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
One other thing to note on this topic: Casting a spell that has a cast time of longer than one round also requires concentration for the entire casting of the spell.
So you cannot cast a spell with a casting time of longer than one action while maintaining concentration on another spell? I did not know that.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Yep. You made me double check it, but in the longer casting time rules it mentions that you need to spend your action and maintain concentration for each round of the casting of the spell.
FWIW, spiritual weapon isn't concentration.
Yes, my bad. The cleric's concentration spells are Bane, Bless, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Enhance Ability and Magic Weapon.
Currently, my concentration spells include Bane, Heat Metal, Invisibility and Silence.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
From a quiz I gave my players.
Question 1. What specific things require concentration?
Casting a spell that has Duration concentration.
Casting a spell with a Casting Time longer than a single Action or Reaction. This includes ritual casting.
Readying a spell.
Using some features . E.g. Draconic Presence (Sorcerer, Draconic, 18), Visions of the Past (Cleric, Knowledge, 17), Invoke Duplicity (Cleric, Trickery, 2), Dark Delirium (Warlock, Archfey, 14), Minor Alchemy (Wizard, Transmutation, 2),
Using some magic items. E.g. marvellous pigments, ring of djinni summoning, ring of shooting stars.
Maybe Warlock pact weapon ritual.
Maybe Paladin and Cleric holy water ritual.
Question 2. What can break concentration?
Using something else that requires concentration (automatic).
Barbarian Rage (automatic).
Taking damage (CON Save, DC is minimum of 10 and half damage).
Gaining the incapacitated condition (automatic). Note that the paralyzed, petrified, stunned and unconscious conditions apply incapacitated.
Being killed (automatic).
The environment around you (CON save, DC varies). This includes environmental effects from spells like sleet storm (hat-tip WolfOfTheBees).
Greenstone walker, to add to question 2, occasionally some spells and effects interrupt concentration - see sleet storm.
This is my problem with 5e. My second edition wizard would stack his spells to be more effective. Fly, invisibility, attack. Now that is impossible without magic items. I really like the new editions mechanics but this seems poorly designed. Our party is experimenting with changing the concentration rule. We just finished The Lost Mines of Philander and are probably going to start Tomb of Annihilation.
I can't imagine the players playing martial characters would be too happy about that. What do they get to make them more powerful to offset how much more powerful that would make the magic characters?
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
The change is completely intentional because in 2nd and 3rd Editions, the Linear Warrior, Quadratic Wizard trope was in full effect. By about 6th level, characters who weren't primary spellcasters could no longer hope to keep up with those who were.
Changing the duration of many (but not all) spells to Concentration was done to make it so that while wizards are still incredibly versatile, they can no longer layer on the buffs, debuffs, and utility spells all at once, thus forcing them to actually choose what they're going to use in a particular situation and keeping things more balanced between classes.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
When you are using the 5e concentration rule, what about the game play at your table makes you think that something is wrong? Do you really find your group getting trounced when fighting level appropriate challenges?
Or are you just missing something that you're used to? I really think it is the latter and that makes it a you issue, not a game issue.
It also put an incredible amount of pressure around surprising your enemies so you can enter combat with a ridiculous array of buffs, and slowed the game down significantly from all the bookkeeping involved in tracking spell durations and bonuses.
If a spellcaster surprised your party in 3rd edition you might as well just forfeit that combat.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
My limited experience with 5e is that having those magic items will happen pretty often, so we're back in the same situation.
I would have thought that the two counters to the layering would be enemy casters either layering the buffs on their own team or waiting two to three rounds allowing minions to soak damage and then cast dispel magic and you're starting over with several fewer spell slots and then it is their turn to put the mojo on.
Many moons ago, we never reached sixth and seventh level, so I never experienced the layering effect you describe so I can't say how it was handled back then.
On the whole I can see that the newer editions have figured out some of the problems with AD&D, mostly reducing the lethality of it. But for my part I'm not sure if it is balanced when I see the sort of min-max play that happens today.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt