You can cast the spell on a solid surface, which is never labeled as the ground (as some spells specify). So could you cast Wall of Fire on a wall and have the sheet of flames parallel to the floor, cutting through creatures' legs?
At this point, you could extend the hot side up from the floor 10 feet and cook a 20-foot wide, 10-foot tall room easily. Also, this same idea applied to a full 20x60 room/hall would bank you up to 48 targets for the initial Dexterity save and a bunch of panicking enemies rushing to escape the fire on the floor.
I wouldn't allow it. The dimensions of the wall in the spell description specify 20 feet "high" and I don't think there's a reasonable way to interpret that as meaning horizontally.
I wouldn't allow it. The dimensions of the wall in the spell description specify 20 feet "high" and I don't think there's a reasonable way to interpret that as meaning horizontally.
Actually, the very first line of the spell gives a different interpretation. "You create a wall of fire on a solid surface within range." Nothing sais that solid surface has to be the ground.
That would be my limitation to ruling this, anyway. You could cast it horizontally, but it still has to be based upon a surface from which it then extends. I wouldn't allow it how OP intends to use it, covering the floor of a room that way, but I could certainly imagine it running along the wall of a room, extending horizontally out to it's 20 foot possible height.
I wouldn't allow it. The dimensions of the wall in the spell description specify 20 feet "high" and I don't think there's a reasonable way to interpret that as meaning horizontally.
Actually, the very first line of the spell gives a different interpretation. "You create a wall of fire on a solid surface within range." Nothing sais that solid surface has to be the ground.
That would be my limitation to ruling this, anyway. You could cast it horizontally, but it still has to be based upon a surface from which it then extends. I wouldn't allow it how OP intends to use it, covering the floor of a room that way, but I could certainly imagine it running along the wall of a room, extending horizontally out to it's 20 foot possible height.
It's irrelevant that it calls for a solid surface when the wall has a height of 20 feet. If the spell just described the dimensions as 20' x 60' x 1' then I would agree with you that it can be oriented in any way you choose, but that's not how the spell describes it. "20 feet high" definitely describes the vertical dimension. It does not mean "20 feet away from the surface" unless you really twist the English language.
“Height” is relative to the standard orientation of a thing, not the ground. My height is 6’1” whether I’m standing up or lying down, unless you really twist the English language.
Also the spell description uses the word "high" not "height". You may still have a height of 6'1", but when you lay on your side, how high is your head?
I feel like the "height" vs "high" debate is the definition of 'technicality.' I'd say it's much more telling that the spell text specifies any flat surface, rather than saying "on a patch of ground" or something. Ultimately this is a DM call though.
“Height” is relative to the standard orientation of a thing, not the ground. My height is 6’1” whether I’m standing up or lying down, unless you really twist the English language.
A rectangular box has a standard orientation? A wall certainly does, and they tend not to have the face with the largest area as their base.
And beyond that, side is pretty clear. If you lay your wall on the ground then the fire still shoots out of the side of it, not the top or bottom.
I feel like the "height" vs "high" debate is the definition of 'technicality.' I'd say it's much more telling that the spell text specifies any flat surface, rather than saying "on a patch of ground" or something. Ultimately this is a DM call though.
I agree, this is a classic RAI vs. RAW discussion
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"Semper in faecibus sumus, solum profundum variat" playing since 1986
A 20' wide x 60' long x 1' tall "floor of fire" is certainly going to give you more bang for your buck in most situations than a 20' tall, 60' long, and 1' thick wall of fire that is only hot on one side. Unless I was in a tight quarters situation or I had to be careful about friendly fire (pun intended) I would use the floor of fire orientation every time.
A 20' wide x 60' long x 1' tall "floor of fire" is certainly going to give you more bang for your buck in most situations than a 20' tall, 60' long, and 1' thick wall of fire that is only hot on one side. Unless I was in a tight quarters situation or I had to be careful about friendly fire (pun intended) I would use the floor of fire orientation every time.
Except you need to have a surface to anchor it to. If you have an available vertical surface that would work fine ... however this is less likely outdoors. In addition, if used indoors ... in a 5' or 10' corridor for example then it will work about the same. The only case where it is clearly better is in a 15'-20' wide room/corridor. If the space is wider, creatures just move to the side. The one difference is that a creature standing in a wall of fire will always take damage from being in the wall thus increasing its effectiveness.
In the right circumstances a horizontal wall of fire would be devastating but it probably won't make that much difference most of the time.
A 20' wide x 60' long x 1' tall "floor of fire" is certainly going to give you more bang for your buck in most situations than a 20' tall, 60' long, and 1' thick wall of fire that is only hot on one side. Unless I was in a tight quarters situation or I had to be careful about friendly fire (pun intended) I would use the floor of fire orientation every time.
But that's only as useful indoors in narrow passages or rooms smaller than 20 feet. You can't lay it flat on the ground if you're fighting outside because there's no flat surface on which to orient it sideways so you can only cast it on the ground, orienting it vertically, and if you are inside then it won't fully cover the room anyways if the space you're operating in is larger than 20ft wide, so it's just as avoidable as the vertical orientation.
That's why I still feel this interpretation works. It still has enough limiting factors to keep it from being broken or OP, with one really good niche use that creative casters can exploit.
Disagree, Saga. For objects, height is the vertical length.
If 6'1" you hides in a you-sized box that is on its side and you ask someone to measure the height of the box, would they get 6'1"?
Height is the distance from the bottom of the object to the top of the object. In general, which sides the bottom and top are don’t change depending on orientation. A fence that is six feet high is still six feet high even when it’s lying on its side.
The answer to your box question is dependent on which side of the box is the “top.” Personally, I would say the top is the side that opens.
Likewise, the top of the wall of fire is the side opposite the mounting surface. The “standard orientation” makes the mounting surface the ground, but if someone wants to mount it elsewhere, that doesn’t change anything. If it’s mounted to the ceiling, the top is closest to the ground and the wall is upside down. The spell description does not say that the wall need be right side up.
[EDIT] It does merit mentioning that there is a different usage of “height,” which is elevation. This is the usage when discussing how “high” the fly on the wall is, but it’s irrelevant to Wall of Fire. If we were take that usage as the one intended, we’d have to concede that “the wall is 20 feet high” means the wall starts 20 feet above the ground, which is patently ridiculous.
You can cast the spell on a solid surface, which is never labeled as the ground (as some spells specify). So could you cast Wall of Fire on a wall and have the sheet of flames parallel to the floor, cutting through creatures' legs?
At this point, you could extend the hot side up from the floor 10 feet and cook a 20-foot wide, 10-foot tall room easily. Also, this same idea applied to a full 20x60 room/hall would bank you up to 48 targets for the initial Dexterity save and a bunch of panicking enemies rushing to escape the fire on the floor.
Link: Wall of Fire
I would consider this creative use of a spell: Yes!
playing since 1986
Two thumbs up for creativity!👍👍
The floor is lava!
Enemies should get advantage if they can find a chair to stand on. 😁
I wouldn't allow it. The dimensions of the wall in the spell description specify 20 feet "high" and I don't think there's a reasonable way to interpret that as meaning horizontally.
Actually, the very first line of the spell gives a different interpretation. "You create a wall of fire on a solid surface within range." Nothing sais that solid surface has to be the ground.
That would be my limitation to ruling this, anyway. You could cast it horizontally, but it still has to be based upon a surface from which it then extends. I wouldn't allow it how OP intends to use it, covering the floor of a room that way, but I could certainly imagine it running along the wall of a room, extending horizontally out to it's 20 foot possible height.
It's irrelevant that it calls for a solid surface when the wall has a height of 20 feet. If the spell just described the dimensions as 20' x 60' x 1' then I would agree with you that it can be oriented in any way you choose, but that's not how the spell describes it. "20 feet high" definitely describes the vertical dimension. It does not mean "20 feet away from the surface" unless you really twist the English language.
“Height” is relative to the standard orientation of a thing, not the ground. My height is 6’1” whether I’m standing up or lying down, unless you really twist the English language.
Disagree, Saga. For objects, height is the vertical length.
If 6'1" you hides in a you-sized box that is on its side and you ask someone to measure the height of the box, would they get 6'1"?
Also the spell description uses the word "high" not "height". You may still have a height of 6'1", but when you lay on your side, how high is your head?
What is the height of a fly on the wall?
playing since 1986
I feel like the "height" vs "high" debate is the definition of 'technicality.' I'd say it's much more telling that the spell text specifies any flat surface, rather than saying "on a patch of ground" or something. Ultimately this is a DM call though.
A rectangular box has a standard orientation? A wall certainly does, and they tend not to have the face with the largest area as their base.
And beyond that, side is pretty clear. If you lay your wall on the ground then the fire still shoots out of the side of it, not the top or bottom.
I agree, this is a classic RAI vs. RAW discussion
playing since 1986
A 20' wide x 60' long x 1' tall "floor of fire" is certainly going to give you more bang for your buck in most situations than a 20' tall, 60' long, and 1' thick wall of fire that is only hot on one side. Unless I was in a tight quarters situation or I had to be careful about friendly fire (pun intended) I would use the floor of fire orientation every time.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Except you need to have a surface to anchor it to. If you have an available vertical surface that would work fine ... however this is less likely outdoors. In addition, if used indoors ... in a 5' or 10' corridor for example then it will work about the same. The only case where it is clearly better is in a 15'-20' wide room/corridor. If the space is wider, creatures just move to the side. The one difference is that a creature standing in a wall of fire will always take damage from being in the wall thus increasing its effectiveness.
In the right circumstances a horizontal wall of fire would be devastating but it probably won't make that much difference most of the time.
But that's only as useful indoors in narrow passages or rooms smaller than 20 feet. You can't lay it flat on the ground if you're fighting outside because there's no flat surface on which to orient it sideways so you can only cast it on the ground, orienting it vertically, and if you are inside then it won't fully cover the room anyways if the space you're operating in is larger than 20ft wide, so it's just as avoidable as the vertical orientation.
That's why I still feel this interpretation works. It still has enough limiting factors to keep it from being broken or OP, with one really good niche use that creative casters can exploit.
No matter whether you're measuring the fly or how high the fly is, it's still a vertical measurement :P.
Height is the distance from the bottom of the object to the top of the object. In general, which sides the bottom and top are don’t change depending on orientation. A fence that is six feet high is still six feet high even when it’s lying on its side.
The answer to your box question is dependent on which side of the box is the “top.” Personally, I would say the top is the side that opens.
Likewise, the top of the wall of fire is the side opposite the mounting surface. The “standard orientation” makes the mounting surface the ground, but if someone wants to mount it elsewhere, that doesn’t change anything. If it’s mounted to the ceiling, the top is closest to the ground and the wall is upside down. The spell description does not say that the wall need be right side up.
[EDIT] It does merit mentioning that there is a different usage of “height,” which is elevation. This is the usage when discussing how “high” the fly on the wall is, but it’s irrelevant to Wall of Fire. If we were take that usage as the one intended, we’d have to concede that “the wall is 20 feet high” means the wall starts 20 feet above the ground, which is patently ridiculous.
Top: the highest or uppermost point, part, or surface of something.
Bottom: the lowest point or part of something