You regain your reaction at the beginning of your turn. A reaction before your turn and a second one after is absolutely fine. What isn’t fine is two reactions between one of your turns and the next.
I believe you can only have 1 reaction in a round. Thus not getting a reaction before your action or not getting a reaction after your action.
(Almost?) All of the rules don't really care when a "round" begins. For reactions, you get it back at the beginning of your turn, not beginning of the round.
On this note, would a player be able to make an attack like say a shot with a bow, and cast a cantrip (or even a spell) as their bonus action?
I'm unsure with the wording in the PHB or I just didn't find the right page and I have been letting my players do that.
When you use your action to attack, there is no problem using your bonus action to cast a qualifying spell, whether it is a cantrip or one that uses a spell slot.
On this note, would a player be able to make an attack like say a shot with a bow, and cast a cantrip (or even a spell) as their bonus action?
I'm unsure with the wording in the PHB or I just didn't find the right page and I have been letting my players do that.
If the cantrip or spell has a casting time of one bonus action, then that’s fine. Obviously though, if the cast time is an action, you can’t cast it as a bonus action without something like Sorcerer’s Quicken Spell metamagic.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Except: "You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
(BA) Cantrip: Magic Stone -> (A) Cantrip: Firebolt = Yes (BA) 1st level: Healing word -> (A) Cantrip: Firebolt = yes (BA) 1st level: Healing word -> (A) 1st Level: Cure Wounds = No (A) Cantrip: Chill Touch -> (BA) 2nd Level: Spiritual Weapon = Yes (A) 3rd Level: Fire Ball -> (BA) 3rd Level: Fire Ball = No
Grey Line: (A) 3rd Level: Fire Ball -> (BA) Cantrip: Magic Stone By Raw - no, given the "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action" part of the rules. By Sage advice - yes you can. By RAI - yes you can. Given that the level of impact it has on the game is next to negligible I'd allow it.
Grey Line: (A) 3rd Level: Fire Ball -> (BA) Cantrip: Magic Stone By Raw - no, given the "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action" part of the rules.
This. No is the only rules answer to this question, anything else would be homebrew.
You shouldn't trust random tweets, both JC and Mearls are regularly wrong in those. The Sage Advice Compendium though is official answers from the publisher (and that doesn't challenge the RAW answer).
Given that the level of impact it has on the game is next to negligible I'd allow it.
Mostly true. Do remember that it can make a difference for a Sorcerer as you are only allowed one meta magic per casting of a spell. So a Sorc could do a cantrip as an action and a levelled spell as a bonus action (with quickened spell). So if you do allow them to do it the other way around and cast the levelled spell with their action you should be aware that allowing them to add any meta magic to that casting would be allowing them an option they are not meant to have.
Grey Line: (A) 3rd Level: Fire Ball -> (BA) Cantrip: Magic Stone By Raw - no, given the "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action" part of the rules. By Sage advice - yes you can. By RAI - yes you can. Given that the level of impact it has on the game is next to negligible I'd allow it.
Yeah, RAW, that doesn't work. I wouldn't even allow it in my games because Magic Stone is a BA specifically so the action can be used with it.
That said, if a person uses Quicken wrong (on the cantrip instead of the leveled spell) because they didn't understand the rule right but weren't using other metamagic on the spell (except for Empowered, which creates its own exception), I give a reminder but don't make them go back. Everything they did in their turn could be done if they did it right at that point.
Given that the level of impact it has on the game is next to negligible I'd allow it.
Mostly true. Do remember that it can make a difference for a Sorcerer as you are only allowed one meta magic per casting of a spell. So a Sorc could do a cantrip as an action and a levelled spell as a bonus action (with quickened spell). So if you do allow them to do it the other way around and cast the levelled spell with their action you should be aware that allowing them to add any meta magic to that casting would be allowing them an option they are not meant to have.
To clarify: the only time I would handwave a "yes" as a DM would be only if the (BA) cantrip are specifically Magic Stone or Shillelagh because the spell (by itself) doesn't have any real impact on the outcome of a turn / battle and if someone wants to action surge the throwing of 2 or more stones... good for them.
Grey Line: (A) 3rd Level: Fire Ball -> (BA) Cantrip: Magic Stone By Raw - no, given the "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action" part of the rules.
...
Given that the level of impact it has on the game is next to negligible I'd allow it.
This is how I see it as well. While it's clear that RAW says no, at the table, there's no harm in flipping it most of the time.
The one time this got me in trouble as a DM is when a sorcerer wanted to cast a quickened cantrip, so he could cast fireball on the same turn. I didn't see the need to split hairs, so I allowed it. But then he wanted to use careful metamagic on the fireball and I just had to accept it because I had already allowed it up to that point. The problem here is that RAW, the fireball should have gotten quickened metamagic instead of the cantrip, and it would have then been ineligible for careful metamagic on the same spell. It wasn't a big deal, but it did make me realize that there are times when flipping the structure can create a problem.
Grey Line: (A) 3rd Level: Fire Ball -> (BA) Cantrip: Magic Stone By Raw - no, given the "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action" part of the rules.
...
Given that the level of impact it has on the game is next to negligible I'd allow it.
This is how I see it as well. While it's clear that RAW says no, at the table, there's no harm in flipping it most of the time.
The one time this got me in trouble as a DM is when a sorcerer wanted to cast a quickened cantrip, so he could cast fireball on the same turn. I didn't see the need to split hairs, so I allowed it. But then he wanted to use careful metamagic on the fireball and I just had to accept it because I had already allowed it up to that point. The problem here is that RAW, the fireball should have gotten quickened metamagic instead of the cantrip, and it would have then been ineligible for careful metamagic on the same spell. It wasn't a big deal, but it did make me realize that there are times when flipping the structure can create a problem.
That's where I'd bring up the reminder of how it works and not allow the use of Careful. That level of metamagic-stacking is one of the things that rule is meant to avoid.
Grey Line: (A) 3rd Level: Fire Ball -> (BA) Cantrip: Magic Stone By Raw - no, given the "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action" part of the rules.
...
Given that the level of impact it has on the game is next to negligible I'd allow it.
This is how I see it as well. While it's clear that RAW says no, at the table, there's no harm in flipping it most of the time.
The one time this got me in trouble as a DM is when a sorcerer wanted to cast a quickened cantrip, so he could cast fireball on the same turn. I didn't see the need to split hairs, so I allowed it. But then he wanted to use careful metamagic on the fireball and I just had to accept it because I had already allowed it up to that point. The problem here is that RAW, the fireball should have gotten quickened metamagic instead of the cantrip, and it would have then been ineligible for careful metamagic on the same spell. It wasn't a big deal, but it did make me realize that there are times when flipping the structure can create a problem.
Just out of curiosity. Did you allow that combination (bonus action to cast a quickened cantrip + action to cast a leveled spell) only on that moment? Or after allowing it, did you start to rule OK that combination or a similar one in later sessions?
In any case, TexasDevin, you ARE the Lord of the Wondrous Blue Drawing. By chance, I've found your Wondrous Blue Drawing in at least three posts in the forums this year 😅
So, your party and you are the ones with the power to modify this rule at will and make it RAW 😅 In one of the videos about the new 2024 core rulebooks, Jeremy Crawford mentioned that they will include your Wondrous Blue Drawing in the PHB to explain, once and for all, how the bonus action spell rule works (NOTE: this is a joke!)
Just out of curiosity. Did you allow that combination (bonus action to cast a quickened cantrip + action to cast a leveled spell) only on that moment? Or after allowing it, did you start to rule OK that combination or a similar one in later sessions?
No. I attempted to explain why it doesn't work, and that was a horrible decision. The guy was confused as to why I let him do it the whole time and then all of a sudden not. And it wasn't even an important moment in the combat. In hindsight, I wish I would have just kept my mouth shut.
One leveled spell per turn is, honestly, a much better rule than the actual rules, and would permit this interaction (it disallows counter-counter-spell and using silvery barbs when someone saves against one of your spells, neither of which I would miss).
I guess we'll know more tomorrow, but it is my belief that with the specific changes to quickened spell metamagic and action surge in the new playtest material, they will be dropping the bonus action casting rule from the 2024 rules.
Or tomorrow, right around lunchtime, I'll be quoting myself to laugh about how wrong I was.
Just out of curiosity. Did you allow that combination (bonus action to cast a quickened cantrip + action to cast a leveled spell) only on that moment? Or after allowing it, did you start to rule OK that combination or a similar one in later sessions?
No. I attempted to explain why it doesn't work, and that was a horrible decision. The guy was confused as to why I let him do it the whole time and then all of a sudden not. And it wasn't even an important moment in the combat. In hindsight, I wish I would have just kept my mouth shut.
I guess we'll know more tomorrow, but it is my belief that with the specific changes to quickened spell metamagic and action surge in the new playtest material, they will be dropping the bonus action casting rule from the 2024 rules.
Or tomorrow, right around lunchtime, I'll be quoting myself to laugh about how wrong I was.
I read something in some random tweets from random people about changes to the bonus action casting rule (EDIT: nothing official) We'll see what happens.
I believe you can only have 1 reaction in a round. Thus not getting a reaction before your action or not getting a reaction after your action.
You regain your reaction at the beginning of your turn. A reaction before your turn and a second one after is absolutely fine. What isn’t fine is two reactions between one of your turns and the next.
(Almost?) All of the rules don't really care when a "round" begins. For reactions, you get it back at the beginning of your turn, not beginning of the round.
On this note, would a player be able to make an attack like say a shot with a bow, and cast a cantrip (or even a spell) as their bonus action?
I'm unsure with the wording in the PHB or I just didn't find the right page and I have been letting my players do that.
When you use your action to attack, there is no problem using your bonus action to cast a qualifying spell, whether it is a cantrip or one that uses a spell slot.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
If the cantrip or spell has a casting time of one bonus action, then that’s fine. Obviously though, if the cast time is an action, you can’t cast it as a bonus action without something like Sorcerer’s Quicken Spell metamagic.
Exact wording for the restriction applied when you cast a BA spell:
"You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Except: "You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
(BA) Cantrip: Magic Stone -> (A) Cantrip: Firebolt = Yes
(BA) 1st level: Healing word -> (A) Cantrip: Firebolt = yes
(BA) 1st level: Healing word -> (A) 1st Level: Cure Wounds = No
(A) Cantrip: Chill Touch -> (BA) 2nd Level: Spiritual Weapon = Yes
(A) 3rd Level: Fire Ball -> (BA) 3rd Level: Fire Ball = No
Grey Line:
(A) 3rd Level: Fire Ball -> (BA) Cantrip: Magic Stone
By Raw - no, given the "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action" part of the rules.
By Sage advice - yes you can.
By RAI - yes you can.
Given that the level of impact it has on the game is next to negligible I'd allow it.
This. No is the only rules answer to this question, anything else would be homebrew.
You shouldn't trust random tweets, both JC and Mearls are regularly wrong in those. The Sage Advice Compendium though is official answers from the publisher (and that doesn't challenge the RAW answer).
Mostly true. Do remember that it can make a difference for a Sorcerer as you are only allowed one meta magic per casting of a spell. So a Sorc could do a cantrip as an action and a levelled spell as a bonus action (with quickened spell).
So if you do allow them to do it the other way around and cast the levelled spell with their action you should be aware that allowing them to add any meta magic to that casting would be allowing them an option they are not meant to have.
On that note, Mike Mearls was far more likely to make mistakes in his tweets than anyone else from WotC tweeting about rules interactions.
Yeah, RAW, that doesn't work. I wouldn't even allow it in my games because Magic Stone is a BA specifically so the action can be used with it.
That said, if a person uses Quicken wrong (on the cantrip instead of the leveled spell) because they didn't understand the rule right but weren't using other metamagic on the spell (except for Empowered, which creates its own exception), I give a reminder but don't make them go back. Everything they did in their turn could be done if they did it right at that point.
To clarify: the only time I would handwave a "yes" as a DM would be only if the (BA) cantrip are specifically Magic Stone or Shillelagh because the spell (by itself) doesn't have any real impact on the outcome of a turn / battle and if someone wants to action surge the throwing of 2 or more stones... good for them.
This is how I see it as well. While it's clear that RAW says no, at the table, there's no harm in flipping it most of the time.
The one time this got me in trouble as a DM is when a sorcerer wanted to cast a quickened cantrip, so he could cast fireball on the same turn. I didn't see the need to split hairs, so I allowed it. But then he wanted to use careful metamagic on the fireball and I just had to accept it because I had already allowed it up to that point. The problem here is that RAW, the fireball should have gotten quickened metamagic instead of the cantrip, and it would have then been ineligible for careful metamagic on the same spell. It wasn't a big deal, but it did make me realize that there are times when flipping the structure can create a problem.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
That's where I'd bring up the reminder of how it works and not allow the use of Careful. That level of metamagic-stacking is one of the things that rule is meant to avoid.
Just out of curiosity. Did you allow that combination (bonus action to cast a quickened cantrip + action to cast a leveled spell) only on that moment? Or after allowing it, did you start to rule OK that combination or a similar one in later sessions?
In any case, TexasDevin, you ARE the Lord of the Wondrous Blue Drawing. By chance, I've found your Wondrous Blue Drawing in at least three posts in the forums this year 😅
So, your party and you are the ones with the power to modify this rule at will and make it RAW 😅 In one of the videos about the new 2024 core rulebooks, Jeremy Crawford mentioned that they will include your Wondrous Blue Drawing in the PHB to explain, once and for all, how the bonus action spell rule works (NOTE: this is a joke!)
No. I attempted to explain why it doesn't work, and that was a horrible decision. The guy was confused as to why I let him do it the whole time and then all of a sudden not. And it wasn't even an important moment in the combat. In hindsight, I wish I would have just kept my mouth shut.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
One leveled spell per turn is, honestly, a much better rule than the actual rules, and would permit this interaction (it disallows counter-counter-spell and using silvery barbs when someone saves against one of your spells, neither of which I would miss).
I guess we'll know more tomorrow, but it is my belief that with the specific changes to quickened spell metamagic and action surge in the new playtest material, they will be dropping the bonus action casting rule from the 2024 rules.
Or tomorrow, right around lunchtime, I'll be quoting myself to laugh about how wrong I was.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I see... thanks for answering me!
I read something in some random tweets from random people about changes to the bonus action casting rule (EDIT: nothing official) We'll see what happens.
But regarding the changes to the Fighter, I didn't see any mention of changes to Action Surge here: 2024 Fighter vs. 2014 Fighter: What’s New
It was changed in UA to exclude the Magic action. We don't know if that persisted, but I don't see why they would have reverted the change.