Hi, I am a DM of my own game. Some questions arose when players and I were discussing about the magic casting rules, so I would like some assistance here.
"Cantrips: A cantrip is a spell that can be cast at will, without using a spell slot and without being prepared in advance." [Quote PHB p.201]
We know cantrip IS a spell.
"Casting time: ...... Bonus Action: A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast a spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."[Quote PHB p.189]
We are also aware and understand that, if I cast a levelled spell as my bonus action, I can only cast cantrips in my reaction and my action (including the action granted by action surge of fighter class), shall I wish to cast a spell.
The question is, if I cast a cantrip as a bonus action, e.g. Shillelagh for druid, can I cast a levelled spell, e.g. Entangle? And vice versa?
From my understanding, the answer is NO. Because cantrip is a spell, so it falls under the rule of the bonus action spell. However, my friend thinks this violates the original intention on PHB p.189.
The question is, if I cast a cantrip as a bonus action, e.g. Shillelagh for druid, can I cast a levelled spell, e.g. Entangle? And vice versa
It doesn't matter what level the bonus action spell, be it cantrip (level 0) or level 1 or higher, if you use your bonus action to cast a spell, you can only use your action to cast cantrips.
This goes both ways; if you cast a levelled spell with your action, you can't then cast a bonus action spell of any level.
The question is, if I cast a cantrip as a bonus action, e.g. Shillelagh for druid, can I cast a levelled spell, e.g. Entangle? And vice versa
It doesn't matter what level the bonus action spell, be it cantrip (level 0) or level 1 or higher, if you use your bonus action to cast a spell, you can only use your action to cast cantrips.
This goes both ways; if you cast a levelled spell with your action, you can't then cast a bonus action spell of any level.
This. To expound a little more, it doesn't matter how you cast a bonus action spell, casting a spell with a bonus action will limit your action to a cantrip for spellcasting options. This includes spells like Healing Word and Shillelagh, but also includes spells that a Sorcerer might quicken. Thus, a Sorcerer may quicken Fireball and cast Fire Bolt but not quicken Fire Bolt and the cast Fireball.
That's correct; casting any spell as a bonus action locks you out of casting any non-cantrip spell using your action (however many you have) or your reaction
There’s one additional point here: I don’t think there are any cantrips that have a reaction cast time, but if there are, you can’t cast them on the same turn you cast a bonus action spell. You can only cast cantrips with a cast time of one action, which precludes reaction spells like Shield. Nothing explicitly prevents you from using a reaction to cast a cantrip with a cast time of one action, but only incredibly niche circumstances can allow that. All I can think of off the top of my head is if an enemy uses their own reaction to move away from you on your turn, thus provoking an attack of opportunity, allowing you to cast a spell at them if you have the War Caster feat. War Caster doesn’t actually change the cast time of the spell, so I think that scenario is fine, but maybe someone else will chime in with a disagreement XD
The bonus spell casting limiting you to cantrips is only for your turn, not the round. Casting a reaction on your turn would have to be a cantrip but after your turn you can cast any reaction spell regardless of level.
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It is totally legal for a Fighter/Sorceror with War caster and the metamagic Quicken Spell to do the following:
Round begins.
Reaction before your turn: Cast a Chas bolt on someone that triggered an AoO
Action: Cast a Magic Missile
Bonus Action: Cast a QUICKENED Acid Spray Cantrip (allowed as it is a bonus action and a cantrip)
Action Surge: Cast another Magic Missile
Reaction after your turn ends: Cast a Chas bolt on someone that triggered an AoO
Round Ends.
That single round costs you your action surge, 4 first level spell slots, plus a sorcerer point to quicken your cantrip.
This is incorrect...by casting any bonus action spell, cantrip or otherwise, you limit yourself to only cantrips for the rest of your turn. In the scenario you posed, you would not be able to cast the bonus action spell, because you have already cast a leveled spell as your action
The bonus spell casting limiting you to cantrips is only for your turn, not the round. Casting a reaction on your turn would have to be a cantrip but after your turn you can cast any reaction spell regardless of level.
No one has said otherwise, but that kind of obfuscates the point I was making, which is that casting a reaction on your turn would have to be a cantrip with a cast time of one action, not a cast time of a reaction. I gave the only example I could think of where that could happen, but if a cantrip actually has a cast time of a reaction (I've since gotten a chance to look, and there aren't any such spells officially, but there could be homebrew options in play), it's unavailable to cast on the turn you cast a spell as a bonus action.
This is incorrect...by casting any bonus action spell, cantrip or otherwise, you limit yourself to only cantrips for the rest of your turn. In the scenario you posed, you would not be able to cast the bonus action spell, because you have already cast a leveled spell as your action
Nope, you are wrong. Entirely wrong. That is why I posted here, to tell you and all the other people what RAW is. You can cast a bonus action cantrip and all of those full leveled action spells (1 as a reaction before your turn, 1 on your turn, 1 as an Action Surge, 1 as a reaction after your turn all in the same round.)
Is there a limit on the number of spells you can cast on your turn?
There’s no rule that says you can cast only X number of spells on your turn, but there are some practical limits. The main limiting factor is your action. Most spells require an action to cast, and unless you use a feature like the fighter’s Action Surge, you have only one action on your turn.
If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
Does the rule on casting a bonus action spell apply when you take a bonus action granted by a spell?
The rule on casting a spell as a bonus action applies only on the turn you cast the spell. For example, spiritual weapon can be cast as a bonus action, and it lasts for 1 minute. On the turn you cast it, you can’t cast another spell before or after it, unless that spell is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. Until spiritual weapon ends, it gives you the option of controlling its spectral weapon as a bonus action. That bonus action does not involve casting a spell, despite the fact that it’s granted by a spell, so you can control the weapon and cast whatever spell you like on the same turn.
Can you cast a reaction spell on your turn?
You sure can! Here’s a common way for it to happen: Cornelius the wizard is casting fireball on his turn, and his foe casts counterspell on him. Cornelius also has counterspell prepared, so he uses his reaction to cast it and break his foe’s counterspell before it can stop fireball.
The bonus spell casting limiting you to cantrips is only for your turn, not the round. Casting a reaction on your turn would have to be a cantrip but after your turn you can cast any reaction spell regardless of level.
No one has said otherwise, ...
OP asked about it in post 4, so I answered.
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Nope, you are wrong. Entirely wrong. That is why I posted here, to tell you and all the other people what RAW is. You can cast a bonus action cantrip and all of those full leveled action spells (1 as a reaction before your turn, 1 on your turn, 1 as an Action Surge, 1 as a reaction after your turn all in the same round.)
a) If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
That means you can a1) Cast Healing Word (bonus action spell), a2) cast a cantrip as your action, b1) cast a counterspell to stop someone counterspelling your Healing word, and a3) use an Action Surge to cast another spell
That is 3 spells and a cantrip. The only other thing my example included was another reaction used BEFORE your turn, for a 4th spell, plus a cantrip.
But that is not the best you can do. Anyone know how you can beat those 5 spells cast in a single round of 6 seconds? It's stupid, but legal.
If you really want to go hog wild, consider this: Tiefling with 17 levels of Rogue (thief) for Thief's Reflexes, 2 levels of Fighters for action Surge, and 1 level of Druids for spells. Note, this build does not have enough spell slots to do all the leveled spells that are legal, so you are forced to do 2 cantrips that could legally be leveled spells, but you are out of spell slots.
That lets you do this:
1) Before your turn, get 1 reaction, use it to cast the 1st level spell Absorb Elements when someone attacks you with fire bolt.
2) On your turn use your action to use the Tiefling ability to cast Darkness 1/long rest.
3) Use your bonus action to cast Magic Stone cantrip
4) Use your Action Surge to get another action, cast Thorn Whip cantrip, (could be a leveled spell, but you are saving the spell slot for....)
5) Someone else Rays of Frost you, but you have a new reaction, so use 1st level spell Absorb Elements (there go both of your 1st level spells, damn we are out of spell slots)
6) Take your second turn (at init -10) during the same round because of Thieves Reflexes and cast Thorn whip again as a cantrip (only because we are out of spell slots)
7) Take your second turn Bonus Action, casting magic stone again as a cantrip.
8) Now that you have had your turn again, you got yet ANOTHER reaction coming, so if someone else hits you, you can use the Tiefling ability to cast the spell Hellish Rebuke.
That is 4 leveled spells + 4 cantrips for a total of 8 spells in a round. For someone that only has one level that lets them cast spells. 8 spells, all in one freaking round.
a) If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
You are incorrectly grouping the clauses there. The third sentence means "If you cast a leveled spell with your action, and use action surge, you may cast a second leveled spell". It does not affect what spells can be legally combined with a bonus action spell.
a) If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
You are incorrectly grouping the clauses there. The third sentence means "If you cast a leveled spell with your action, and use action surge, you may cast a second leveled spell". It does not affect what spells can be legally combined with a bonus action spell.
Mog and I had the same disagreement in another thread. My guess is you were in that one, too.
To anyone considering Mog's advice, I'd counsel that you check with your DM to see how they rule on it before taking it as the gospel truth. To sum up Mog's argument, Action Surge is not being affected by the limitation that casting a bonus spell has on leveled spells being cast. Mog is coming to this conclusion because of a SAC entry that states that you can cast 2 leveled spells if one is using Action Surge. Problem is that nothing in Action Surge changes the bonus action casting limitations, which would limit all other spells cast to cantrips. Mog will argue that the SAC statement says otherwise. Ergo, check with your DM.
a) If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
You are incorrectly grouping the clauses there. The third sentence means "If you cast a leveled spell with your action, and use action surge, you may cast a second leveled spell". It does not affect what spells can be legally combined with a bonus action spell.
It's your turn. You want to cast a spell. Here's your guide.
I think this might need additional clarification. This chart appears to be relevant to the spell you are casting as an action.
The short and simple version: during your turn you can cast a spell as a bonus action and cast a cantrip as an action OR you can cast a non-cantrip with your action and any reaction spell.
Hi, I am a DM of my own game. Some questions arose when players and I were discussing about the magic casting rules, so I would like some assistance here.
"Cantrips: A cantrip is a spell that can be cast at will, without using a spell slot and without being prepared in advance." [Quote PHB p.201]
We know cantrip IS a spell.
"Casting time: ...... Bonus Action: A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast a spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."[Quote PHB p.189]
We are also aware and understand that, if I cast a levelled spell as my bonus action, I can only cast cantrips in my reaction and my action (including the action granted by action surge of fighter class), shall I wish to cast a spell.
The question is, if I cast a cantrip as a bonus action, e.g. Shillelagh for druid, can I cast a levelled spell, e.g. Entangle? And vice versa?
From my understanding, the answer is NO. Because cantrip is a spell, so it falls under the rule of the bonus action spell. However, my friend thinks this violates the original intention on PHB p.189.
We found the very same question on Sage advice. Most of the answers said 'YES', but there are still some 'NO's.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/05/18/can-you-cast-a-cantrip-as-a-bonus-action-after-casting-a-level-1-spell-or-higher/
So can anyone confirm what is the ultimate right answer? Thanks very much for your kindly help!
It doesn't matter what level the bonus action spell, be it cantrip (level 0) or level 1 or higher, if you use your bonus action to cast a spell, you can only use your action to cast cantrips.
This goes both ways; if you cast a levelled spell with your action, you can't then cast a bonus action spell of any level.
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This. To expound a little more, it doesn't matter how you cast a bonus action spell, casting a spell with a bonus action will limit your action to a cantrip for spellcasting options. This includes spells like Healing Word and Shillelagh, but also includes spells that a Sorcerer might quicken. Thus, a Sorcerer may quicken Fireball and cast Fire Bolt but not quicken Fire Bolt and the cast Fireball.
I have the same question at all. Thanks for asking and answering.
So I want to clarify that, such as if I am a multi classed fighter(EK)/ Rogue with “war caster” feat, I can ONLY do the following in the same round:
Action- non-cantrip spell
Bonus Action - anything other than spells (such as bonus attack or cunning action)
Action Surge- non-cantrip spell
Reaction - non-cantrip spell
===or ===
Action- Cantrip
Bonus Action - any spell including cantrip
Action Surge- Cantrip
Reaction - Cantrip(if any)
Am I correct?
That's correct; casting any spell as a bonus action locks you out of casting any non-cantrip spell using your action (however many you have) or your reaction
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Thank you very much!
There’s one additional point here: I don’t think there are any cantrips that have a reaction cast time, but if there are, you can’t cast them on the same turn you cast a bonus action spell. You can only cast cantrips with a cast time of one action, which precludes reaction spells like Shield. Nothing explicitly prevents you from using a reaction to cast a cantrip with a cast time of one action, but only incredibly niche circumstances can allow that. All I can think of off the top of my head is if an enemy uses their own reaction to move away from you on your turn, thus provoking an attack of opportunity, allowing you to cast a spell at them if you have the War Caster feat. War Caster doesn’t actually change the cast time of the spell, so I think that scenario is fine, but maybe someone else will chime in with a disagreement XD
The bonus spell casting limiting you to cantrips is only for your turn, not the round. Casting a reaction on your turn would have to be a cantrip but after your turn you can cast any reaction spell regardless of level.
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It is totally legal for a Fighter/Sorceror with War caster and the metamagic Quicken Spell to do the following:
Round begins.
Reaction before your turn: Cast a Chas bolt on someone that triggered an AoO
Action: Cast a Magic Missile
Bonus Action: Cast a QUICKENED Acid Spray Cantrip (allowed as it is a bonus action and a cantrip)
Action Surge: Cast another Magic Missile
Reaction after your turn ends: Cast a Chas bolt on someone that triggered an AoO
Round Ends.
That single round costs you your action surge, 4 first level spell slots, plus a sorcerer point to quicken your cantrip.
This is incorrect...by casting any bonus action spell, cantrip or otherwise, you limit yourself to only cantrips for the rest of your turn. In the scenario you posed, you would not be able to cast the bonus action spell, because you have already cast a leveled spell as your action
No one has said otherwise, but that kind of obfuscates the point I was making, which is that casting a reaction on your turn would have to be a cantrip with a cast time of one action, not a cast time of a reaction. I gave the only example I could think of where that could happen, but if a cantrip actually has a cast time of a reaction (I've since gotten a chance to look, and there aren't any such spells officially, but there could be homebrew options in play), it's unavailable to cast on the turn you cast a spell as a bonus action.
Nope, you are wrong. Entirely wrong. That is why I posted here, to tell you and all the other people what RAW is. You can cast a bonus action cantrip and all of those full leveled action spells (1 as a reaction before your turn, 1 on your turn, 1 as an Action Surge, 1 as a reaction after your turn all in the same round.)
Here, read this in the Sage Advice from D&D Beyond (Not the less reliable twitter that he just wrote off the cuff): https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#Spellcasting
OP asked about it in post 4, so I answered.
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That quote doesn't say what you think it says.
Pantagruel, that quote includes the following:
a) If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
it later says:
b) Cornelius the wizard is casting fireball on his turn, and his foe casts counterspell on him. Cornelius also has counterspell prepared, so he uses his reaction to cast it and break his foe’s counterspell before it can stop fireball.
That means you can a1) Cast Healing Word (bonus action spell), a2) cast a cantrip as your action, b1) cast a counterspell to stop someone counterspelling your Healing word, and a3) use an Action Surge to cast another spell
That is 3 spells and a cantrip. The only other thing my example included was another reaction used BEFORE your turn, for a 4th spell, plus a cantrip.
But that is not the best you can do. Anyone know how you can beat those 5 spells cast in a single round of 6 seconds? It's stupid, but legal.
If you really want to go hog wild, consider this: Tiefling with 17 levels of Rogue (thief) for Thief's Reflexes, 2 levels of Fighters for action Surge, and 1 level of Druids for spells. Note, this build does not have enough spell slots to do all the leveled spells that are legal, so you are forced to do 2 cantrips that could legally be leveled spells, but you are out of spell slots.
That lets you do this:
1) Before your turn, get 1 reaction, use it to cast the 1st level spell Absorb Elements when someone attacks you with fire bolt.
2) On your turn use your action to use the Tiefling ability to cast Darkness 1/long rest.
3) Use your bonus action to cast Magic Stone cantrip
4) Use your Action Surge to get another action, cast Thorn Whip cantrip, (could be a leveled spell, but you are saving the spell slot for....)
5) Someone else Rays of Frost you, but you have a new reaction, so use 1st level spell Absorb Elements (there go both of your 1st level spells, damn we are out of spell slots)
6) Take your second turn (at init -10) during the same round because of Thieves Reflexes and cast Thorn whip again as a cantrip (only because we are out of spell slots)
7) Take your second turn Bonus Action, casting magic stone again as a cantrip.
8) Now that you have had your turn again, you got yet ANOTHER reaction coming, so if someone else hits you, you can use the Tiefling ability to cast the spell Hellish Rebuke.
That is 4 leveled spells + 4 cantrips for a total of 8 spells in a round. For someone that only has one level that lets them cast spells. 8 spells, all in one freaking round.
You are incorrectly grouping the clauses there. The third sentence means "If you cast a leveled spell with your action, and use action surge, you may cast a second leveled spell". It does not affect what spells can be legally combined with a bonus action spell.
Mog and I had the same disagreement in another thread. My guess is you were in that one, too.
To anyone considering Mog's advice, I'd counsel that you check with your DM to see how they rule on it before taking it as the gospel truth. To sum up Mog's argument, Action Surge is not being affected by the limitation that casting a bonus spell has on leveled spells being cast. Mog is coming to this conclusion because of a SAC entry that states that you can cast 2 leveled spells if one is using Action Surge. Problem is that nothing in Action Surge changes the bonus action casting limitations, which would limit all other spells cast to cantrips. Mog will argue that the SAC statement says otherwise. Ergo, check with your DM.
Correct
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It's your turn. You want to cast a spell. Here's your guide.
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I think this might need additional clarification. This chart appears to be relevant to the spell you are casting as an action.
The short and simple version: during your turn you can cast a spell as a bonus action and cast a cantrip as an action OR you can cast a non-cantrip with your action and any reaction spell.