I asked if anyone could find and quote the rules as written that shows that NO animal can travel at a walking pace for 8 hours. Find that for me please. I will be delighted to see it. A player character can do so. Why can't a horse? By the rules, you can travel 48 miles per day on a riding horse without any risk of exhaustion for the horse.
Of course no rule says that NO animal can travel that way. But since the published rule says "For short spans of time (up to an hour), many animals move much faster than humanoids. A mounted character can ride at a gallop for about an hour, covering twice the usual distance for a fast pace. " it is up to the DM to decide what pace a horse (or other mount) will actually achieve in a day.
The rules do NOT say that "you can travel 48 miles per day on a riding horse without any risk of exhaustion for the horse". Unless I'm wrong of course, and you can point to the specific rule where it says that it IS the case.
What is the base movement speed of a Human? Given that a horse can't walk at a walking speed except in short bursts, I don't have a clue how fast a Human can walk outside of combat.
My calculation for how far a horse and rider can travel in a day is based on the simple idea that if a human can make 24 miles, and a horse is twice as fast, then that would be 48, which is what the first post Filcat made says.
What is the base movement speed of a Human? Given that a horse can't walk at a walking speed except in short bursts, I don't have a clue how fast a Human can walk outside of combat.
My calculation for how far a horse and rider can travel in a day is based on the simple idea that if a human can make 24 miles, and a horse is twice as fast, then that would be 48, which is what the first post Filcat made says.
A horse is only twice as fast in combat situations, or for short periods of time up to an hour.
Maybe I missed something in this thread but how do they get the Distance Per Day calculation? I'm asking because if I'm doing 4 miles per hour for 8 hours then shouldn't the answer be 32 and not 30? So I'm wondering how it got the 30.
That's the general rule. There's another rule stating that, for periods of 1 hour, a mount can move at double the speed of a fast pace. This means a riding horse, for example, could move up to 34 miles in an 8-hour time frame. Assuming, of course, that the horse doesn't need to stop and rest because of the exertion. The rules don't say whether they do or do not. Personally, I'm inclined to say they're done. A horse is typically "blown" after galloping 10 miles.
And in the real world, a horse that's spurred on will run at a gallop until it keels over dead.
Historically, light cavalry would only gallop about 300 yards. Heavy cavalry, like a warhorse in barding, would only trot.
But a horse can travel 9 hours before they have to make a Constitution saving throw versus exhaustion. So, at a fast pace, that's 34 miles. That said, fast and slow pace really ought to be 32 and 16 miles, respectively. At least, if they're to be kept consistent with the 3 mph in 8 hours that 24 miles per day covers for a normal pace.
In theory, a horse can go on indefinitely because of a forced march. But I wouldn't push it.
The rules are strange. There is no relation between speed and distance traveled over time. A riding horse has a listed speed of 60. A human has a listed speed of 30. The rules state that a Humanoid can walk at 3 miles per hour. 24 miles per day. A horse can thus travel at 6 miles per hour, and would be able to go 48 miles in one day. This is 8 hours of travel. Beyond that, it's a Forced March, at walking speed.
The thing is, that in the real world, a horse needs the rider to tell it what to do, and they don't speak English well. So you need special gear, and they must be well trained. So they slow down to approximately the same speed a Human does.
The Riding Horse ought to have a base speed of 30, because that's how fast they go in the real world when you ride them. When not ridden, say they are walking away from something they do not like, they move at 6 miles per hour, for a single hour, and then it's a Forced March. That would be a Gallop, when they are Forced to March.
I myself want horses to be not just pack animals, but also a way for people to travel faster than just walking. Using the source earlier about real world traveling paces of horses, and Mehetmet's houserule, I adjusted it to this:
Can travel an average of 48 miles per day, or 6 miles in 1 hour, assuming travelling by road or easy terrain (plains etc.), but can only maintain this speed for a maximum of 5 days in a row, before needing one day of rest to recuperate.
An adventurer on a mount can gallop for 8 miles per hour with a -5 to passive perception. A galloping mount can only travel at that pace for 1 hour before needing to become "fresh" again.
To become "fresh" a travel pace of normal walking speed must be maintained for 2 hours. Alternatively you can choose to take a short rest with no travel to become "fresh" again. Note that you can only benefit from the mounted speed if you are either traveling alone (leaving the rest of your group behind, if you are in a group) or if your entire group has a mount of the same or higher speed -- You can only go as fast as the slowest creature/vehicle in your caravan. A horse pulling a wagon or something similar can only travel at the normal adventurer walking pace of 24 miles/8 hours (or travel at the fast pace following the same rules).
Traveling through rough terrain like dense forests, mountains, etc, travel distance is limited to regular travel speed (24 miles a day, with the same benefits/drawbacks for fast or slow pace), and the horse will not need any day to recuperate.
It's absolutely not RAW or RAI, but that's how it works in my world. You're the DM, if you don't like the rules, then change it. Just be consistent.
How can one presume to use the rule for Special Travel in the DMG to calculate riding distance? It's 'special' for a reason: to determine the range of a vehicle that "doesn't tire the way a creature does" on account of magic or engine-power, etc. That seems pretty clear to me.
Looking at the PHB I think I going to go with this ruling myself:
On an unencumbered horse you can travel at fast speed without the Passive Wisdom penalty. I think it makes sense that your perception isn't heavily affected on horseback and that a horse is just a little bit faster than a person without being forced to move faster. I'm thinking that the same logic applies with a carriage but with a significantly higher threshold for encumberance. However a carriage couldn't be taken through Difficult Terrain.
From what I know a lot of animals are unable to shed heat through sweating the way humans do and therefore cannot sustain a super fast pace over extended periods of time. So that's a possible motivation for why a horse isn't that much faster than a human.
Looking at the PHB I think I going to go with this ruling myself:
On an unencumbered horse you can travel at fast speed without the Passive Wisdom penalty. I think it makes sense that your perception isn't heavily affected on horseback and that a horse is just a little bit faster than a person without being forced to move faster. I'm thinking that the same logic applies with a carriage but with a significantly higher threshold for encumberance. However a carriage couldn't be taken through Difficult Terrain.
From what I know a lot of animals are unable to shed heat through sweating the way humans do and therefore cannot sustain a super fast pace over extended periods of time. So that's a possible motivation for why a horse isn't that much faster than a human.
Anyway, this will be my home ruling.
I don't really think that bumping along on a large, noisy, smelly beast would make you very good at perception. Perception refers to all senses, not just sight.
Looking at the PHB I think I going to go with this ruling myself:
On an unencumbered horse you can travel at fast speed without the Passive Wisdom penalty. I think it makes sense that your perception isn't heavily affected on horseback and that a horse is just a little bit faster than a person without being forced to move faster. I'm thinking that the same logic applies with a carriage but with a significantly higher threshold for encumberance. However a carriage couldn't be taken through Difficult Terrain.
From what I know a lot of animals are unable to shed heat through sweating the way humans do and therefore cannot sustain a super fast pace over extended periods of time. So that's a possible motivation for why a horse isn't that much faster than a human.
Anyway, this will be my home ruling.
I don't really think that bumping along on a large, noisy, smelly beast would make you very good at perception. Perception refers to all senses, not just sight.
Sound depends on the terrain, on a hard road the sound would be enough to affect perception but on soft terrain such as grass a horse and rider would make no more noise than a rider walking on ther own, in fact I suspect less if the rider is in heavy armor (and the horse is walking as opposed to trotting or cantering). While riding I have never noticed the smell of a horse, though I admet you can smeel it when my nose is a bit closer (for example when grooming) and /or I am inside so the wind doesn't take the smell away) From a sight point of view the extra height does allow you to see over a lot of bushes and hedges making perception easier (but stealth more difficult)
I would also argue that the primary reason for lack of perception is fatigue. At a higher pace you have to focus on breathing and where you put your feet (unless the surface is perfectly flat), which to some extent keeps you from looking around. If you are on horseback you spend less concentration and energy than you would walking.
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Of course no rule says that NO animal can travel that way. But since the published rule says "For short spans of time (up to an hour), many animals move much faster than humanoids. A mounted character can ride at a gallop for about an hour, covering twice the usual distance for a fast pace. " it is up to the DM to decide what pace a horse (or other mount) will actually achieve in a day.
The rules do NOT say that "you can travel 48 miles per day on a riding horse without any risk of exhaustion for the horse". Unless I'm wrong of course, and you can point to the specific rule where it says that it IS the case.
What is the base movement speed of a Human? Given that a horse can't walk at a walking speed except in short bursts, I don't have a clue how fast a Human can walk outside of combat.
My calculation for how far a horse and rider can travel in a day is based on the simple idea that if a human can make 24 miles, and a horse is twice as fast, then that would be 48, which is what the first post Filcat made says.
<Insert clever signature here>
A horse is only twice as fast in combat situations, or for short periods of time up to an hour.
Maybe I missed something in this thread but how do they get the Distance Per Day calculation? I'm asking because if I'm doing 4 miles per hour for 8 hours then shouldn't the answer be 32 and not 30? So I'm wondering how it got the 30.
That's the general rule. There's another rule stating that, for periods of 1 hour, a mount can move at double the speed of a fast pace. This means a riding horse, for example, could move up to 34 miles in an 8-hour time frame. Assuming, of course, that the horse doesn't need to stop and rest because of the exertion. The rules don't say whether they do or do not. Personally, I'm inclined to say they're done. A horse is typically "blown" after galloping 10 miles.
And in the real world, a horse that's spurred on will run at a gallop until it keels over dead.
Historically, light cavalry would only gallop about 300 yards. Heavy cavalry, like a warhorse in barding, would only trot.
But a horse can travel 9 hours before they have to make a Constitution saving throw versus exhaustion. So, at a fast pace, that's 34 miles. That said, fast and slow pace really ought to be 32 and 16 miles, respectively. At least, if they're to be kept consistent with the 3 mph in 8 hours that 24 miles per day covers for a normal pace.
In theory, a horse can go on indefinitely because of a forced march. But I wouldn't push it.
The rules are strange. There is no relation between speed and distance traveled over time. A riding horse has a listed speed of 60. A human has a listed speed of 30. The rules state that a Humanoid can walk at 3 miles per hour. 24 miles per day. A horse can thus travel at 6 miles per hour, and would be able to go 48 miles in one day. This is 8 hours of travel. Beyond that, it's a Forced March, at walking speed.
The thing is, that in the real world, a horse needs the rider to tell it what to do, and they don't speak English well. So you need special gear, and they must be well trained. So they slow down to approximately the same speed a Human does.
The Riding Horse ought to have a base speed of 30, because that's how fast they go in the real world when you ride them. When not ridden, say they are walking away from something they do not like, they move at 6 miles per hour, for a single hour, and then it's a Forced March. That would be a Gallop, when they are Forced to March.
<Insert clever signature here>
I myself want horses to be not just pack animals, but also a way for people to travel faster than just walking. Using the source earlier about real world traveling paces of horses, and Mehetmet's houserule, I adjusted it to this:
It's absolutely not RAW or RAI, but that's how it works in my world. You're the DM, if you don't like the rules, then change it. Just be consistent.
How can one presume to use the rule for Special Travel in the DMG to calculate riding distance? It's 'special' for a reason: to determine the range of a vehicle that "doesn't tire the way a creature does" on account of magic or engine-power, etc. That seems pretty clear to me.
That's right, there isn't. The rulebooks even say that (as quoted earlier in the thread).
How fast you can move in a few seconds when your life is on the line has little to do with how fast you can move across an entire day of walking.
Looking at the PHB I think I going to go with this ruling myself:
On an unencumbered horse you can travel at fast speed without the Passive Wisdom penalty. I think it makes sense that your perception isn't heavily affected on horseback and that a horse is just a little bit faster than a person without being forced to move faster. I'm thinking that the same logic applies with a carriage but with a significantly higher threshold for encumberance. However a carriage couldn't be taken through Difficult Terrain.
From what I know a lot of animals are unable to shed heat through sweating the way humans do and therefore cannot sustain a super fast pace over extended periods of time. So that's a possible motivation for why a horse isn't that much faster than a human.
Anyway, this will be my home ruling.
I don't really think that bumping along on a large, noisy, smelly beast would make you very good at perception. Perception refers to all senses, not just sight.
Sound depends on the terrain, on a hard road the sound would be enough to affect perception but on soft terrain such as grass a horse and rider would make no more noise than a rider walking on ther own, in fact I suspect less if the rider is in heavy armor (and the horse is walking as opposed to trotting or cantering).
While riding I have never noticed the smell of a horse, though I admet you can smeel it when my nose is a bit closer (for example when grooming) and /or I am inside so the wind doesn't take the smell away)
From a sight point of view the extra height does allow you to see over a lot of bushes and hedges making perception easier (but stealth more difficult)
I would also argue that the primary reason for lack of perception is fatigue. At a higher pace you have to focus on breathing and where you put your feet (unless the surface is perfectly flat), which to some extent keeps you from looking around. If you are on horseback you spend less concentration and energy than you would walking.