We're playing Out of the Abyss. My players are currently breaking out of the prison, and a bard wandered off and charmed a higher ranking Drow. He wants that Drow to follow him and tell the lower ranking Drow (in a different part of the prison) to stand down in the fight. Doing so, I would assume, would require a Charisma check for social interaction by the Bard. Am I interpreting this correctly?
Charm, much like illusion spells, will vary greatly in their function and usefulness depending on how much your dungeon master buys into the player's creativite use. If you want to make use of either of those, I think it is worth having a talk with your DM to make sure you are both on the same page and nobody will end up disappointed.
The mechanical defined effects of charmed are that the NPC won't attack you, and you have advantage on social interactions. I would tend to interpret 'not attacking' as also forbidding indirect harm like throwing the PCs in jail, but there isn't any built-in assistance -- just lack of hostile action.
I took away the immediately figures it out from the charm spells. I am adding in the ability to figure it out on an INT save with advantage or disadvantage given based on how they interact with the person who was charmed. It allowed for role playing to be beneficial in a rules mechanics way.
This way the enchanters and bards are still able to get something from their charm spells, but it will not be like a 3e enchanter with greater spell focus and a 26 INT. Some of the DCs for those spells were over 24 - often for just Charm Person. I figure to combat those situations - for game balance purposes - having the people immediately figure out the charm was to keep it constantly being used. Casting Friends on a merchant to get the "friends and family" discount is exactly what some characters will do. Since it is now a cantrip it is able to be used all the time.
Well there are three things going on here it seems to me. First the basic Charm ...
The Charmed critter regards you as a friendly acquaintance. So they are going to receive you in a friendly manner, but they also know you are supposed to be in your cell. They aren't Charmed and an Amnesiac. So think of your friend, if he worked at the Sheriff's office and you were brought in to be held for some reason, say public intoxication. If everyone were away from the holding area, and you walked up to your good friend, how would he react? So the way I figure it he would, without any other urging, want you to get back in your cell. He might just try to talk you into going on your own, but I figure that is his basic reaction.
Second, you can now attempt to Persuade him With Advantage. So if you ask him something fairly reasonable, you get to make a straight up persuasion roll with advantage. This is going to give you a chance to get him to help you rather than do what he might otherwise attempt to do. If you ask him to do something completely ridiculous then the DM is well within his purview to say this roll is done normally or with disadvantage or in the most egregious cases, is an automatic failure. In this case, we revert to "he tries to get you to go back to your cell." So if you're a fast talker and pretty smart, maybe you can get him to unlock the other cells to let your buddies out and show you the way out if your agree to be quiet and sneak out.
But at some point you should run into his fellow guards. Now imagine the other deputies at the Sheriff's office. Maybe you know them, and maybe they like you, but they know you're not supposed to be wandering around outside the holding area. Well, prisoners in a dungeon are not anywhere near this hopeful of deceiving the prison guards. The only way I see this going "easy" is if the Charmed critter has substantial rank and authority over the others or he is a fantastic deceiver himself. Either "Hey, you guys just sit still. I'm letting these fellows go. They haven't done anything worth being thrown in prison." -OR- "Hey, I got word to bring these fellows up to the Captain for questioning." Just about anything else and I see this becoming a free-for-all fight in the prison.
So to get out easy, you have to talk this guy into acting for your party and then he has to pull it off.
If the circumstances are right, you got the keys you need and all that, you might do better just making a break for it hoping to run out of the prison before the guards get organized.
Good luck. "Have fun stormin' the castle!"
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
The Charmed is now “Friendly” on that chart and Persuasion/Deception/Intimidation rolls would have advantage going forward.
DC
Friendly Creature’s Reaction
0
The creature does as asked without taking risks or making sacrifices.
10
The creature accepts a minor risk or sacrifice to do as asked.
20
The creature accepts a significant risk or sacrifice to do as asked.
Please remember that you can adjust the DCs as necessary, but note that unless you hit the highest result it says “minor risk or sacrifice” to do your request. Minor risk is not “betray your whole chain of command”, and even significant risk would not include killing themselves or a sacrificing their entire way of life for your whim. They’re friendly - not lapdogs. The victim might even try to convince the Charmer to do something else that doesn’t put themselves at risk of doing something they are averse to.
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Hi,
We're playing Out of the Abyss. My players are currently breaking out of the prison, and a bard wandered off and charmed a higher ranking Drow. He wants that Drow to follow him and tell the lower ranking Drow (in a different part of the prison) to stand down in the fight. Doing so, I would assume, would require a Charisma check for social interaction by the Bard. Am I interpreting this correctly?
Thanks.
Kotath,
Thanks - this is helpful. Was thinking that it seemed heavily OP for something at level 2.
Charm, much like illusion spells, will vary greatly in their function and usefulness depending on how much your dungeon master buys into the player's creativite use. If you want to make use of either of those, I think it is worth having a talk with your DM to make sure you are both on the same page and nobody will end up disappointed.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The mechanical defined effects of charmed are that the NPC won't attack you, and you have advantage on social interactions. I would tend to interpret 'not attacking' as also forbidding indirect harm like throwing the PCs in jail, but there isn't any built-in assistance -- just lack of hostile action.
I took away the immediately figures it out from the charm spells. I am adding in the ability to figure it out on an INT save with advantage or disadvantage given based on how they interact with the person who was charmed. It allowed for role playing to be beneficial in a rules mechanics way.
This way the enchanters and bards are still able to get something from their charm spells, but it will not be like a 3e enchanter with greater spell focus and a 26 INT. Some of the DCs for those spells were over 24 - often for just Charm Person. I figure to combat those situations - for game balance purposes - having the people immediately figure out the charm was to keep it constantly being used. Casting Friends on a merchant to get the "friends and family" discount is exactly what some characters will do. Since it is now a cantrip it is able to be used all the time.
Well there are three things going on here it seems to me. First the basic Charm ...
The Charmed critter regards you as a friendly acquaintance. So they are going to receive you in a friendly manner, but they also know you are supposed to be in your cell. They aren't Charmed and an Amnesiac. So think of your friend, if he worked at the Sheriff's office and you were brought in to be held for some reason, say public intoxication. If everyone were away from the holding area, and you walked up to your good friend, how would he react? So the way I figure it he would, without any other urging, want you to get back in your cell. He might just try to talk you into going on your own, but I figure that is his basic reaction.
Second, you can now attempt to Persuade him With Advantage. So if you ask him something fairly reasonable, you get to make a straight up persuasion roll with advantage. This is going to give you a chance to get him to help you rather than do what he might otherwise attempt to do. If you ask him to do something completely ridiculous then the DM is well within his purview to say this roll is done normally or with disadvantage or in the most egregious cases, is an automatic failure. In this case, we revert to "he tries to get you to go back to your cell." So if you're a fast talker and pretty smart, maybe you can get him to unlock the other cells to let your buddies out and show you the way out if your agree to be quiet and sneak out.
But at some point you should run into his fellow guards. Now imagine the other deputies at the Sheriff's office. Maybe you know them, and maybe they like you, but they know you're not supposed to be wandering around outside the holding area. Well, prisoners in a dungeon are not anywhere near this hopeful of deceiving the prison guards. The only way I see this going "easy" is if the Charmed critter has substantial rank and authority over the others or he is a fantastic deceiver himself. Either "Hey, you guys just sit still. I'm letting these fellows go. They haven't done anything worth being thrown in prison." -OR- "Hey, I got word to bring these fellows up to the Captain for questioning." Just about anything else and I see this becoming a free-for-all fight in the prison.
So to get out easy, you have to talk this guy into acting for your party and then he has to pull it off.
If the circumstances are right, you got the keys you need and all that, you might do better just making a break for it hoping to run out of the prison before the guards get organized.
Good luck. "Have fun stormin' the castle!"
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Remember the following chart under Social Interaction:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/running-the-game#SocialInteraction
The Charmed is now “Friendly” on that chart and Persuasion/Deception/Intimidation rolls would have advantage going forward.
Please remember that you can adjust the DCs as necessary, but note that unless you hit the highest result it says “minor risk or sacrifice” to do your request. Minor risk is not “betray your whole chain of command”, and even significant risk would not include killing themselves or a sacrificing their entire way of life for your whim. They’re friendly - not lapdogs. The victim might even try to convince the Charmer to do something else that doesn’t put themselves at risk of doing something they are averse to.