There’s really only a handful of spells that have components with a cost that matters. It’s not much for a player to keep track of. Which is to say I agree with biowizard.
I did not see where anyone had given an example of consumption: Find Familiar on DND Beyond, there will be an asterix (*) next to the M for the material components. That will give information on consumption of the materials. Below is the one for Find Familiar.
* - (10 gp worth of charcoal, incense, and herbs that must be consumed by fire in a brass brazier)
And I ignore any material components unless it has a cost unless there are extenuating circumstances. Captured would be one of them or having things stolen for you. Only really done it once at the beginning of T1 The Village of Hommelt where bandits take everything form them. Then they had to scrounge a little bit.
I do feel that depending on the amount of magic in the game, material components would be easier to find. The 50GP diamond could easily be found at a good sized town since it can also be used for jewelry, but not a the little village. I would just hate to make them too hard to find because you are limiting the very essence of the spell casting classes. With no spell casting, the Wizard is just a smart commoner.
I think if the component is not consumed by the spell you can just ignore it, regardless of its cost.
If the DM just places the components in the next adventure hoard it's a restriction that doesn't matter and most components are too expensive to be available anywhere outside large cities. A normal person can live 10 days for the price of one "Find Familiar". Compared to the real world that is material worth roughly 800$ at minimum wage (which is 10$ an hour here in Germany).
So unless you have a specialized merchant it's unlikely to be available anywhere. And leveling up usually doesn't happen close to a large city... more like in a dungeon or small village in the wilderness.
If the DM just places the components in the next adventure hoard it's a restriction that doesn't matter
Following that logic, anything that's going to be in a treasure hoard should just be given to the players up-front. Why make things cost money at the shops? They're just going to get gold in the next treasure hoard and be able to come back and buy it, so the cost is a restriction that doesn't matter. I mean after all, most of the gp costs on items that nobody can afford at level 1, by level 2 or 3 are trivially cheap because the PCs got treasure in that first dungeon. So why make things cost money that level 1s can't afford? Might it be to present the players with a measurable way to experience progress?
If you don't want to use spell components, then don't. But the idea that something doesn't matter because the DM is going to give it to you eventually in a treasure hoard is rather antithetical to the whole concept of adventuring and D&D. If the sorcerer takes chromatic orb but can't use it till he finds a 50 gp diamond, and has to go most of level 1 unable to use one of his very few spells, until after fighting his way to and defeating the goblin chief to win that diamond, then I really don't see how you could say that it "doesn't matter." That diamond now matters a lot more than if he just bought it. He has a story about where he got that diamond, which he will remember for the rest of the campaign. And it was a hard-won diamond, because he had to kill the goblin chief without access to what at the time was his best spell. And after getting the diamond, he'll see a dramatic improvement in his character's performance directly related to the thing he won by fighting the goblin chief.
And the diamond "doesn't matter?"
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I was going to hand-wave the diamond for Chromatic Orb since it was never covered and the character had a three-week downtime between adventures so 'theoretically' the rogue could have purchased a diamond, but more importantly a component pouch.
Then I started thinking that the downtime could have been the easy way out so I may place it in the upcoming treasure hoard because I agree with Bio's point of making it worth something to the character than a simple 'grocery' item to buy. What bothered me at first with this, and it took me a bit to get over it as this thread has grown in the conversation, was that seem too convenient for the player.
"I need a diamond."
"Oh, look a diamond of 50gp in a treasure hoard."
It felt like it would be breaking the narrative by giving the player what they need. I'm over that now, because if the tale works how the diamond was found or earned then I can move on for the adventure and check that box for the TR for her magic using abilities.
If you want it to be a little less on the nose, make it a diamond worth 70 gp. It still fulfills the requirement, but it’s less obvious.
I was going to make it 75gp but I agree giving it a little increase to its value also challenges the TR to keep it and not sell it off for the quick coin.
If you want it to be a little less on the nose, make it a diamond worth 70 gp. It still fulfills the requirement, but it’s less obvious.
Right mine was a gold ring with a diamond attached. When they brought it in to be appraised, the guy at the trading post said it was worth 65 gp as a piece. They then asked how much he'd give them for the diamond and he said it was worth 50 gp (he never offers full price -- they have to negotiate). He offered them 50 gp for the whole piece. I can't remember if they just kept it with the diamond or took the diamond out and sold him the ring for 10 gp or something else. But it wasn't just "a 50 gp diamond" sitting there.
The other thing to remember is that there may be a negotiation. Our party on finding out it could be used to cast the spell told the sorcerer to keep it. But others might say, "If you want it you pay us the 50 gp it's worth and we split it" or something.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
If the DM just places the components in the next adventure hoard it's a restriction that doesn't matter
Following that logic, anything that's going to be in a treasure hoard should just be given to the players up-front. Why make things cost money at the shops? They're just going to get gold in the next treasure hoard and be able to come back and buy it, so the cost is a restriction that doesn't matter. I mean after all, most of the gp costs on items that nobody can afford at level 1, by level 2 or 3 are trivially cheap because the PCs got treasure in that first dungeon. So why make things cost money that level 1s can't afford? Might it be to present the players with a measurable way to experience progress?
If you don't want to use spell components, then don't. But the idea that something doesn't matter because the DM is going to give it to you eventually in a treasure hoard is rather antithetical to the whole concept of adventuring and D&D. If the sorcerer takes chromatic orb but can't use it till he finds a 50 gp diamond, and has to go most of level 1 unable to use one of his very few spells, until after fighting his way to and defeating the goblin chief to win that diamond, then I really don't see how you could say that it "doesn't matter." That diamond now matters a lot more than if he just bought it. He has a story about where he got that diamond, which he will remember for the rest of the campaign. And it was a hard-won diamond, because he had to kill the goblin chief without access to what at the time was his best spell. And after getting the diamond, he'll see a dramatic improvement in his character's performance directly related to the thing he won by fighting the goblin chief.
And the diamond "doesn't matter?"
Does a fighter require a +1 longsword to attack? Does a ranger need a Quiver of Elona to use his bow? Does a cleric need a necklace of prayer beads to use his Channel Divinity?
A reward should be just that: a reward. Something exceptional that provides you with new options, or at least makes you excited about having it. It should *never* be something that is required for a character to work.
If a new player is unfamiliar with the components and chooses Chromatic Orb as a first level sorcerer, that player basically is down one spell known until the DM decides that player may now use their class feature and provides a diamond for it. Even if you are familiar with the rules, picking the spell before you stumble over the required diamond is stupid.
It's not even about balancing. The moment you find that component you can use the spell like any other, without further restrictions.
That's why I don't see any point in requiring components unless they are consumed. A powerful spell being limited by rare ingredients like "Raise Dead" is fine, since it can drive a story and emphasize the power of that particular spell. A class feature on the power level of most starting weapons requiring a certain piece of loot from the DM does nothing, neither narratively nor mechanically. It's nothing but a trap in the system to trip new players.
If the DM just places the components in the next adventure hoard it's a restriction that doesn't matter
Following that logic, anything that's going to be in a treasure hoard should just be given to the players up-front. Why make things cost money at the shops? They're just going to get gold in the next treasure hoard and be able to come back and buy it, so the cost is a restriction that doesn't matter. I mean after all, most of the gp costs on items that nobody can afford at level 1, by level 2 or 3 are trivially cheap because the PCs got treasure in that first dungeon. So why make things cost money that level 1s can't afford? Might it be to present the players with a measurable way to experience progress?
If you don't want to use spell components, then don't. But the idea that something doesn't matter because the DM is going to give it to you eventually in a treasure hoard is rather antithetical to the whole concept of adventuring and D&D. If the sorcerer takes chromatic orb but can't use it till he finds a 50 gp diamond, and has to go most of level 1 unable to use one of his very few spells, until after fighting his way to and defeating the goblin chief to win that diamond, then I really don't see how you could say that it "doesn't matter." That diamond now matters a lot more than if he just bought it. He has a story about where he got that diamond, which he will remember for the rest of the campaign. And it was a hard-won diamond, because he had to kill the goblin chief without access to what at the time was his best spell. And after getting the diamond, he'll see a dramatic improvement in his character's performance directly related to the thing he won by fighting the goblin chief.
And the diamond "doesn't matter?"
Does a fighter require a +1 longsword to attack? Does a ranger need a Quiver of Elona to use his bow? Does a cleric need a necklace of prayer beads to use his Channel Divinity?
A reward should be just that: a reward. Something exceptional that provides you with new options, or at least makes you excited about having it. It should *never* be something that is required for a character to work.
If a new player is unfamiliar with the components and chooses Chromatic Orb as a first level sorcerer, that player basically is down one spell known until the DM decides that player may now use their class feature and provides a diamond for it. Even if you are familiar with the rules, picking the spell before you stumble over the required diamond is stupid.
It's not even about balancing. The moment you find that component you can use the spell like any other, without further restrictions.
That's why I don't see any point in requiring components unless they are consumed. A powerful spell being limited by rare ingredients like "Raise Dead" is fine, since it can drive a story and emphasize the power of that particular spell. A class feature on the power level of most starting weapons requiring a certain piece of loot from the DM does nothing, neither narratively nor mechanically. It's nothing but a trap in the system to trip new players.
I find the comparisons to an entirely different mechanic (swinging a sword vs casting a spell), fallacious.
I use spell components because it’s fun for a lot of people that like resource management and also provides a very interesting gold-sink that makes the economy useful again.
I also check their spells ahead of time before letting them venture forth without finding spell components in town.
This *can* be made exciting and interesting if you want, or completely ignored. But trying to make swinging a sword equivalent to using magic only leads to a discussion later when the Fighter says “Well, if combat and magic are the same, why can’t my sword cast True Resurrect too?”
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There’s really only a handful of spells that have components with a cost that matters. It’s not much for a player to keep track of.
Which is to say I agree with biowizard.
I did not see where anyone had given an example of consumption: Find Familiar on DND Beyond, there will be an asterix (*) next to the M for the material components. That will give information on consumption of the materials. Below is the one for Find Familiar.
* - (10 gp worth of charcoal, incense, and herbs that must be consumed by fire in a brass brazier)
And I ignore any material components unless it has a cost unless there are extenuating circumstances. Captured would be one of them or having things stolen for you. Only really done it once at the beginning of T1 The Village of Hommelt where bandits take everything form them. Then they had to scrounge a little bit.
I do feel that depending on the amount of magic in the game, material components would be easier to find. The 50GP diamond could easily be found at a good sized town since it can also be used for jewelry, but not a the little village. I would just hate to make them too hard to find because you are limiting the very essence of the spell casting classes. With no spell casting, the Wizard is just a smart commoner.
I think if the component is not consumed by the spell you can just ignore it, regardless of its cost.
If the DM just places the components in the next adventure hoard it's a restriction that doesn't matter and most components are too expensive to be available anywhere outside large cities. A normal person can live 10 days for the price of one "Find Familiar". Compared to the real world that is material worth roughly 800$ at minimum wage (which is 10$ an hour here in Germany).
So unless you have a specialized merchant it's unlikely to be available anywhere. And leveling up usually doesn't happen close to a large city... more like in a dungeon or small village in the wilderness.
Following that logic, anything that's going to be in a treasure hoard should just be given to the players up-front. Why make things cost money at the shops? They're just going to get gold in the next treasure hoard and be able to come back and buy it, so the cost is a restriction that doesn't matter. I mean after all, most of the gp costs on items that nobody can afford at level 1, by level 2 or 3 are trivially cheap because the PCs got treasure in that first dungeon. So why make things cost money that level 1s can't afford? Might it be to present the players with a measurable way to experience progress?
If you don't want to use spell components, then don't. But the idea that something doesn't matter because the DM is going to give it to you eventually in a treasure hoard is rather antithetical to the whole concept of adventuring and D&D. If the sorcerer takes chromatic orb but can't use it till he finds a 50 gp diamond, and has to go most of level 1 unable to use one of his very few spells, until after fighting his way to and defeating the goblin chief to win that diamond, then I really don't see how you could say that it "doesn't matter." That diamond now matters a lot more than if he just bought it. He has a story about where he got that diamond, which he will remember for the rest of the campaign. And it was a hard-won diamond, because he had to kill the goblin chief without access to what at the time was his best spell. And after getting the diamond, he'll see a dramatic improvement in his character's performance directly related to the thing he won by fighting the goblin chief.
And the diamond "doesn't matter?"
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I was going to hand-wave the diamond for Chromatic Orb since it was never covered and the character had a three-week downtime between adventures so 'theoretically' the rogue could have purchased a diamond, but more importantly a component pouch.
Then I started thinking that the downtime could have been the easy way out so I may place it in the upcoming treasure hoard because I agree with Bio's point of making it worth something to the character than a simple 'grocery' item to buy. What bothered me at first with this, and it took me a bit to get over it as this thread has grown in the conversation, was that seem too convenient for the player.
"I need a diamond."
"Oh, look a diamond of 50gp in a treasure hoard."
It felt like it would be breaking the narrative by giving the player what they need. I'm over that now, because if the tale works how the diamond was found or earned then I can move on for the adventure and check that box for the TR for her magic using abilities.
If you want it to be a little less on the nose, make it a diamond worth 70 gp. It still fulfills the requirement, but it’s less obvious.
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I was going to make it 75gp but I agree giving it a little increase to its value also challenges the TR to keep it and not sell it off for the quick coin.
Right mine was a gold ring with a diamond attached. When they brought it in to be appraised, the guy at the trading post said it was worth 65 gp as a piece. They then asked how much he'd give them for the diamond and he said it was worth 50 gp (he never offers full price -- they have to negotiate). He offered them 50 gp for the whole piece. I can't remember if they just kept it with the diamond or took the diamond out and sold him the ring for 10 gp or something else. But it wasn't just "a 50 gp diamond" sitting there.
The other thing to remember is that there may be a negotiation. Our party on finding out it could be used to cast the spell told the sorcerer to keep it. But others might say, "If you want it you pay us the 50 gp it's worth and we split it" or something.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Does a fighter require a +1 longsword to attack? Does a ranger need a Quiver of Elona to use his bow? Does a cleric need a necklace of prayer beads to use his Channel Divinity?
A reward should be just that: a reward. Something exceptional that provides you with new options, or at least makes you excited about having it. It should *never* be something that is required for a character to work.
If a new player is unfamiliar with the components and chooses Chromatic Orb as a first level sorcerer, that player basically is down one spell known until the DM decides that player may now use their class feature and provides a diamond for it. Even if you are familiar with the rules, picking the spell before you stumble over the required diamond is stupid.
It's not even about balancing. The moment you find that component you can use the spell like any other, without further restrictions.
That's why I don't see any point in requiring components unless they are consumed. A powerful spell being limited by rare ingredients like "Raise Dead" is fine, since it can drive a story and emphasize the power of that particular spell. A class feature on the power level of most starting weapons requiring a certain piece of loot from the DM does nothing, neither narratively nor mechanically. It's nothing but a trap in the system to trip new players.
I find the comparisons to an entirely different mechanic (swinging a sword vs casting a spell), fallacious.
I use spell components because it’s fun for a lot of people that like resource management and also provides a very interesting gold-sink that makes the economy useful again.
I also check their spells ahead of time before letting them venture forth without finding spell components in town.
This *can* be made exciting and interesting if you want, or completely ignored. But trying to make swinging a sword equivalent to using magic only leads to a discussion later when the Fighter says “Well, if combat and magic are the same, why can’t my sword cast True Resurrect too?”