I'm playing as a ranger 6 and sorcerer 3 this means I have two 3rd level spell slots. This is great, but if I convert them into sorcerer points it would equate to five sorcerer points but I can only hold three sorcerer points. What would happen to the last two points?
Would I just have (a)5 Sorcerer points (b)3 sorcerer points, and an extra 1st level spell slot or (c) would I lose the 2 Sorcerer points that are essentially a first level spell slot and that would beat the whole point of flexible casting?
I'm playing as a ranger 6 and sorcerer 3 this means I have two 3rd level spell slots. This is great, but if I convert them into sorcerer points it would equate to five sorcerer points but I can only hold three sorcerer points. What would happen to the last two points?
Would I just have (a)5 Sorcerer points (b)3 sorcerer points, and an extra 1st level spell slot or (c) would I lose the 2 Sorcerer points that are essentially a first level spell slot and that would beat the whole point of flexible casting?
Either (b) or (c), depending on how generous/conservative your DM is.
Or you could just cast a 1st or 2nd-level spell as a 3rd-level spell.
I'm playing as a ranger 6 and sorcerer 3 this means I have two 3rd level spell slots. This is great, but if I convert them into sorcerer points it would equate to five sorcerer points but I can only hold three sorcerer points. What would happen to the last two points?
Would I just have (a)5 Sorcerer points (b)3 sorcerer points, and an extra 1st level spell slot or (c) would I lose the 2 Sorcerer points that are essentially a first level spell slot and that would beat the whole point of flexible casting?
RAW, the only answer is (c), which does suck.
I'd ask your DM if they'll let you do (b) as that's more in line with the spirit of the feature, and the only RAW restriction preventing you from directly "trading down" your spell slot is that it would normally require two bonus actions.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I'm playing as a ranger 6 and sorcerer 3 this means I have two 3rd level spell slots. This is great, but if I convert them into sorcerer points it would equate to five sorcerer points but I can only hold three sorcerer points. What would happen to the last two points?
Would I just have (a)5 Sorcerer points (b)3 sorcerer points, and an extra 1st level spell slot or (c) would I lose the 2 Sorcerer points that are essentially a first level spell slot and that would beat the whole point of flexible casting?
RAW, the only answer is (c), which does suck.
I'd ask your DM if they'll let you do (b) as that's more in line with the spirit of the feature, and the only RAW restriction preventing you from directly "trading down" your spell slot is that it would normally require two bonus actions.
Correct, I meant “generous” (RAI/RAF)/“conservative” (RAW).
I'm playing as a ranger 6 and sorcerer 3 this means I have two 3rd level spell slots. This is great, but if I convert them into sorcerer points it would equate to five sorcerer points but I can only hold three sorcerer points. What would happen to the last two points?
Would I just have (a)5 Sorcerer points (b)3 sorcerer points, and an extra 1st level spell slot or (c) would I lose the 2 Sorcerer points that are essentially a first level spell slot and that would beat the whole point of flexible casting?
Do keep in mind that you don't have to convert both at the same time. There is plenty of opportunity to convert them when you need them later, especially since you'll start a rest with some SP anyway. Also, since converting them to SP just to then convert then to lower level spell slots causes loss, ensure that you'll get more spell slots out of the exchange than you would leaving them at 3rd level. Most spells have increased effects when upcast and even something that doesn't would be better used with an upcast slot than converting slots just to get the same number of slots.
Remember, flexible casting is a sorcerer thing and you aren't fully a sorcerer which means that you won't be as efficient at it as a Sorcerer with the same caster level would be.
Jhfffan, they're talking about converting one 3rd level slot, not both. Each 3rd level spell slot is worth 5 Sorcery Points, which is over the maximum their character can hold due to multiclassing.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I'm playing as a ranger 6 and sorcerer 3 this means I have two 3rd level spell slots. This is great, but if I convert them into sorcerer points it would equate to five sorcerer points but I can only hold three sorcerer points. What would happen to the last two points?
Would I just have (a)5 Sorcerer points (b)3 sorcerer points, and an extra 1st level spell slot or (c) would I lose the 2 Sorcerer points that are essentially a first level spell slot and that would beat the whole point of flexible casting?
They specifically mention converting the slots to Sorcery Points. When converting the spell slots to sorcery points, you only get the same number of SP as the level of the slot which is 3 in this case. See just below the table for converting SP to spell slots:
Converting a Spell Slot to Sorcery Points. As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of sorcery points equal to the slot’s level.
As such, my previous comments are valid. The character can use all of their SP to use metamagic or create additional level 1 or level 2 spell slots. They can then convert a third level spell slot to SP to rinse and repeat. As long as they don't try to convert both of them at the same time, they won't be other the limit of 3 SP that a 3rd level sorcerer can have.
Agreed. 3rd level slots generate 3 points, which is what you can hold, so no problemo. Your sorcerer level is insufficient to accumulate enough points to refresh 3rd level slots (that takes 5), but that's working as intended and doesn't need a patch, nothing stopping you from using those points for metamagic.
Wait, what? That's crazy... I've never heard of anyone interpreting it like that, but I see how that conclusion can be reached.
I interpret "gain a number of sorcery points equal to the slot’s level" as referencing the # of SP equal to the slot's level on the conversion table, and you can't convert slots above level 5. If converting from slot-to-SP & SP-to-slot isn't a 1:1 conversion for the # of SP generated/consumed, then it's not flexible. Big oof.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I see where you’d get that impression, but there’s no support for reading the common term “slot level” to have a new one-off meaning for this feature. The ability to launder your slots across levels is good, but has a cost.
Sure there is, and it's not a one-off meaning... "slot level" is "slot level"; it doesn't mean anything different than normal.
Creating Spell Slots
SPELL SLOT LEVEL
SORCERY POINT COST
1st
2
2nd
3
3rd
5
4th
6
5th
7
Converting a Spell Slot to Sorcery Points. As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of sorcery points equal to the slot’s level.
We have a table establishing how many Sorcery Points a given level of spell slot is equivalent to. It is perfectly valid to infer that this table is what is being referenced.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Sure there is, and it's not a one-off meaning... "slot level" is "slot level"; it doesn't mean anything different than normal.
Creating Spell Slots
SPELL SLOT LEVEL
SORCERY POINT COST
1st
2
2nd
3
3rd
5
4th
6
5th
7
Converting a Spell Slot to Sorcery Points. As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of sorcery points equal to the slot’s level.
We have a table establishing how many Sorcery Points a given level of spell slot is equivalent to. It is perfectly valid to infer that this table is what is being referenced.
I really don't think it is. It says "the slot's level," not "the slot's level's SP cost."
Given that it is all contained within the 2nd level Sorcerer Class Feature "Font of Magic", I see no reason to inherently assume it wouldn't be in reference to what the feature just established, nor would I expect them to print the table twice in the same feature.
And let me be clear before this thread starts spiraling: both ways of interpreting the feature are valid. As far as I am aware, there has been no official ruling on this, so I cleave to an interpretation that doesn't diminish the Sorcerer's core feature.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Given that it is all contained within the 2nd level Sorcerer Class Feature "Font of Magic", I see no reason to inherently assume it wouldn't be in reference to what the feature just established, nor would I expect them to print the table twice in the same feature.
And let me be clear before this thread starts spiraling: both ways of interpreting the feature are valid. As far as I am aware, there has been no official ruling on this, so I cleave to an interpretation that doesn't diminish the Sorcerer's core feature.
What's easier? "Converting a third level slot, ok 3 SP." or "Converting a third level slot, let me consult a table to find the conversion... ah yes 5 SP". You literally don't need a table for the 1:1 conversion to SP.
As for diminishing the Sorcerer's core feature, I could see that view from the standpoint of always thinking the way that you're viewing it. From our perspective, you're view is embellishing or aggrandizing the feature.
As to the OP, you'll have to see which way your DM sees it. Either way, you'll only get 3 SP and you may wish to upcast spells instead of cannibalizing them if you don't feel that you are getting proper value from them.
The answer is C. No one is forcing you to convert the third level slots into spell points. If you choose to do something sub-optimal, that is your choice.
This does not reduce the Sorceror, instead it merely means you have found a bad idea. Similarly, a wizard that only memorizes Non-combat spells should not go adventuring, a monk should not put on armor, a Druid should not wildshape into a bunny rabbit to attack a bear, and you should never ever sit on a caltrop.
"What's easier" is a non-starter argument, but as far as I'm concerned "what's easier" would be referencing the same conversion table that the Sorcerer is already using, rather than trying to figure out which slot level conversions are "worth it". Level 3 slot - 5 points. 5 points - level 3 slot. That's easy.
Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. I said I would not expect them to print the same table twice because, if the conversion is equivalent in both directions, there would be absolutely no point in doing so. The fact that they did not print two tables is not evidence of my argument being invalid.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
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I'm playing as a ranger 6 and sorcerer 3 this means I have two 3rd level spell slots. This is great, but if I convert them into sorcerer points it would equate to five sorcerer points but I can only hold three sorcerer points. What would happen to the last two points?
Would I just have (a)5 Sorcerer points (b)3 sorcerer points, and an extra 1st level spell slot or (c) would I lose the 2 Sorcerer points that are essentially a first level spell slot and that would beat the whole point of flexible casting?
Either (b) or (c), depending on how generous/conservative your DM is.
Or you could just cast a 1st or 2nd-level spell as a 3rd-level spell.
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RAW, the only answer is (c), which does suck.
I'd ask your DM if they'll let you do (b) as that's more in line with the spirit of the feature, and the only RAW restriction preventing you from directly "trading down" your spell slot is that it would normally require two bonus actions.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Correct, I meant “generous” (RAI/RAF)/“conservative” (RAW).
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Do keep in mind that you don't have to convert both at the same time. There is plenty of opportunity to convert them when you need them later, especially since you'll start a rest with some SP anyway. Also, since converting them to SP just to then convert then to lower level spell slots causes loss, ensure that you'll get more spell slots out of the exchange than you would leaving them at 3rd level. Most spells have increased effects when upcast and even something that doesn't would be better used with an upcast slot than converting slots just to get the same number of slots.
Remember, flexible casting is a sorcerer thing and you aren't fully a sorcerer which means that you won't be as efficient at it as a Sorcerer with the same caster level would be.
Jhfffan, they're talking about converting one 3rd level slot, not both. Each 3rd level spell slot is worth 5 Sorcery Points, which is over the maximum their character can hold due to multiclassing.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
They can't create a 3rd level slot because they don't have the SP to be able to do that, since creating a 3rd level spot requires 5 points. However:
They specifically mention converting the slots to Sorcery Points. When converting the spell slots to sorcery points, you only get the same number of SP as the level of the slot which is 3 in this case. See just below the table for converting SP to spell slots:
As such, my previous comments are valid. The character can use all of their SP to use metamagic or create additional level 1 or level 2 spell slots. They can then convert a third level spell slot to SP to rinse and repeat. As long as they don't try to convert both of them at the same time, they won't be other the limit of 3 SP that a 3rd level sorcerer can have.
Edit: corrected 5th level slot to 3rd level slot.
Jhfffan Is 100% correct. I forgot that the conversion was different selling vs buying.
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Agreed. 3rd level slots generate 3 points, which is what you can hold, so no problemo. Your sorcerer level is insufficient to accumulate enough points to refresh 3rd level slots (that takes 5), but that's working as intended and doesn't need a patch, nothing stopping you from using those points for metamagic.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Wait, what? That's crazy... I've never heard of anyone interpreting it like that, but I see how that conclusion can be reached.
I interpret "gain a number of sorcery points equal to the slot’s level" as referencing the # of SP equal to the slot's level on the conversion table, and you can't convert slots above level 5. If converting from slot-to-SP & SP-to-slot isn't a 1:1 conversion for the # of SP generated/consumed, then it's not flexible. Big oof.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I see where you’d get that impression, but there’s no support for reading the common term “slot level” to have a new one-off meaning for this feature. The ability to launder your slots across levels is good, but has a cost.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Sure there is, and it's not a one-off meaning... "slot level" is "slot level"; it doesn't mean anything different than normal.
We have a table establishing how many Sorcery Points a given level of spell slot is equivalent to. It is perfectly valid to infer that this table is what is being referenced.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I really don't think it is. It says "the slot's level," not "the slot's level's SP cost."
I don’t see a way to read “equal to the slot’s level” to mean “equal to a value based upon the slot’s level, on the table above.”
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Saga and Chicken are absolutely correct.
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Given that it is all contained within the 2nd level Sorcerer Class Feature "Font of Magic", I see no reason to inherently assume it wouldn't be in reference to what the feature just established, nor would I expect them to print the table twice in the same feature.
And let me be clear before this thread starts spiraling: both ways of interpreting the feature are valid. As far as I am aware, there has been no official ruling on this, so I cleave to an interpretation that doesn't diminish the Sorcerer's core feature.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
What's easier? "Converting a third level slot, ok 3 SP." or "Converting a third level slot, let me consult a table to find the conversion... ah yes 5 SP". You literally don't need a table for the 1:1 conversion to SP.
As for diminishing the Sorcerer's core feature, I could see that view from the standpoint of always thinking the way that you're viewing it. From our perspective, you're view is embellishing or aggrandizing the feature.
As to the OP, you'll have to see which way your DM sees it. Either way, you'll only get 3 SP and you may wish to upcast spells instead of cannibalizing them if you don't feel that you are getting proper value from them.
The answer is C. No one is forcing you to convert the third level slots into spell points. If you choose to do something sub-optimal, that is your choice.
This does not reduce the Sorceror, instead it merely means you have found a bad idea. Similarly, a wizard that only memorizes Non-combat spells should not go adventuring, a monk should not put on armor, a Druid should not wildshape into a bunny rabbit to attack a bear, and you should never ever sit on a caltrop.
I'm with Sigred. It never would have occurred to me that you weren't going by the table for both slots to points and points to slots.
"What's easier" is a non-starter argument, but as far as I'm concerned "what's easier" would be referencing the same conversion table that the Sorcerer is already using, rather than trying to figure out which slot level conversions are "worth it". Level 3 slot - 5 points. 5 points - level 3 slot. That's easy.
Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. I said I would not expect them to print the same table twice because, if the conversion is equivalent in both directions, there would be absolutely no point in doing so. The fact that they did not print two tables is not evidence of my argument being invalid.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.