Is a melee weapon attack listed in a monster (NPC) stat block (lets say like the mace attack for the Thug) a melee weapon attack that takes an action or the attack action using that melee weapon?
(I know that, generally speaking, a monster (NPC) take all/most actions that a PC can.)
Is a melee weapon attack listed in a monster (NPC) stat block (lets say like the mace attack for the Thug) a melee weapon attack that takes an action or the attack action using that melee weapon?
(I know that, generally speaking, a monster (NPC) take all/most actions that a PC can.)
Is there a specific creature's stat block you're curious about, or just in general? In general, if a creature comes with a weapon, then the stat block will include that as an explicit attack.
If you're talking about a creature picking up a weapon and using it ad-hoc, then you'd just have to calculate hit/damage from the creature's stats as you would for anyone else.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
The thug or sprite would be a fine example. But really any stat block that has a weapon attack in it.
My specific question is: does attacking with that weapon use the attack action, or is it an action that makes an attack using that weapon?
I ask because of the strange interaction it may or may not have with beast companions and steel defenders.
Mmm, okay, that is a great question! Luckily, there's a readily available answer: no.
Actions
When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action.
Melee and Ranged Attacks
The most common actions that a monster will take in combat are melee and ranged attacks. These can be spell attacks or weapon attacks, where the "weapon" might be a manufactured item or a natural weapon, such as a claw or tail spike.
Creature vs. Target. The target of a melee or ranged attack is usually either one creature or one target, the difference being that a "target" can be a creature or an object.
Hit. Any damage dealt or other effects that occur as a result of an attack hitting a target are described after the "Hit" notation. You have the option of taking average damage or rolling the damage; for this reason, both the average damage and the die expression are presented.
Miss. If an attack has an effect that occurs on a miss, that information is presented after the "Miss:" notation.
Multiattack
A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack action. A creature can't use Multiattack when making an opportunity attack, which must be a single melee attack.
Ammunition
A monster carries enough ammunition to make its ranged attacks. You can assume that a monster has 2d4 pieces of ammunition for a thrown weapon attack, and 2d10 pieces of ammunition for a projectile weapon such as a bow or crossbow.
Monsters do not have the Attack action, they only have the specific actions listed in their stat block, and that includes any attacks made with a weapon. The reason for this is simple: monsters can't do more than one thing unless their stat block explicitly says so. Creatures with Multiattack list the specific attacks which are eligible for use with that discrete action.
A good example of this breakdown would be to compare the Duergar Hammerer and Duergar Kavalrachni. Both have the multiattack action, and both list exactly which attacks are made with that action. The Hammerer makes one claw attack, and one hammer attack. The Kavalrachni makes two War Pick attacks. Despite the fact that the Kavalrachni also has a Heavy Crossbow attack, that is explicitly not an option for use with Multiattack.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Crazy to me. So they could take the attack action normally, as in "When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action." But the action in it's stat block with a weapon is not the attack action? That means a steel defender can not grapple anything, yes?
Oh, I think I misunderstood what you meant. Anyone can take the Attack action; it's one of the basic actions available to all creatures (as alluded to in the actions quote) like Dash or Hide. I thought you were alluding to multiattack allowing more things than specified.
Yes, they can grapple. This section should contain the info you're looking for.
[edit] Going back to multiattack for a second, grappling is not an option for that action, unless the creature's stat block explicitly lists grappling within the multiattack description. So for the Duergar from before, they can choose to take the Attack action to grapple (as their entire action), but they cannot substitute a grapple for one of the attacks made via the multiattack action. Multiattack is not the same as Extra Attack.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Right. The steel defender can only take the actions in its stat block or the actions listed in the artificer’s ability, meaning no attack action, meaning it can’t grapple. It’s a silly thing to think about, but my brain won’t shut it off.
Right. The steel defender can only take the actions in its stat block or the actions listed in the artificer’s ability, meaning no attack action, meaning it can’t grapple. It’s a silly thing to think about, but my brain won’t shut it off.
Correct, and that is on purpose. Companion creatures are more limited in what they can do for the sake of balance. The Steel Defender of a Battle Smith has different capabilities than a Beast Master Ranger's Companion (which can be instructed to take the Attack action).
[edit] On that particular note, consider the fact that you need only use a bonus action to command your Steel Defender, yet a Ranger must use their action to command their Ranger's Companion. The Steel Defender also has the ability to both heal itself, can be healed by a cantrip (Mending), and can be revived by you if it dies. IMO, Steel Defender comes out ahead by a mile.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Well, hopefully, I haven't added to the confusion. :P
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I need as many thoughts on this as I can get. I like what you are saying and agree with you. I think it's a "specific beats general" kind of situation.
A good example of this breakdown would be to compare the Duergar Hammerer and Duergar Kavalrachni. Both have the multiattack action, and both list exactly which attacks are made with that action. The Hammerer makes one claw attack, and one hammer attack. The Kavalrachni makes two War Pick attacks. Despite the fact that the Kavalrachni also has a Heavy Crossbow attack, that is explicitly not an option for use with Multiattack.
Thanks for the example but for conversation sake where on the Duergar Kavalrachni stat block does it indicate it get multi attack with the War Pick? I assume I'm missing something so I was just wanted to ask?
A good example of this breakdown would be to compare the Duergar Hammerer and Duergar Kavalrachni. Both have the multiattack action, and both list exactly which attacks are made with that action. The Hammerer makes one claw attack, and one hammer attack. The Kavalrachni makes two War Pick attacks. Despite the fact that the Kavalrachni also has a Heavy Crossbow attack, that is explicitly not an option for use with Multiattack.
Thanks for the example but for conversation sake where on the Duergar Kavalrachni stat block does it indicate it get multi attack with the War Pick? I assume I'm missing something so I was just wanted to ask?
... on the stat block for the entry that you linked..? Nowhere.
On the entry in the bestiary..? 1st entry under actions. Weeeiirrd.
Duergar Kavalrachni
The kavalrachni are duergar cavalry, trained to fight while riding steeders.
Cavalry Training. When the duergar hits a target with a melee attack while mounted on a female steeder, the steeder can make one melee attack against the same target as a reaction.
Duergar Resilience. The duergar has advantage on saving throws against poison, spells, and illusions, as well as to resist being charmed or paralyzed.
Sunlight Sensitivity. While in sunlight, the duergar has disadvantage on attack rolls, as well as on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.
Actions
Multiattack.The duergar makes two war pick attacks.
War Pick.Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8 + 2) piercing damage plus 5 (2d4) poison damage.
Heavy Crossbow.Ranged Weapon Attack: +2 to hit, range 100/400 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d10) piercing damage.
Shared Invisibility (Recharges after a Short or Long Rest). The duergar magically turns invisible for up to 1 hour or until it attacks, it casts a spell, or its concentration is broken (as if concentrating on a spell). Any equipment the duergar wears or carries is invisible with it. While the invisible duergar is mounted on a female steeder, the steeder is invisible as well. The invisibility ends early on the steeder immediately after it attacks.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
A good example of this breakdown would be to compare the Duergar Hammerer and Duergar Kavalrachni. Both have the multiattack action, and both list exactly which attacks are made with that action. The Hammerer makes one claw attack, and one hammer attack. The Kavalrachni makes two War Pick attacks. Despite the fact that the Kavalrachni also has a Heavy Crossbow attack, that is explicitly not an option for use with Multiattack.
Thanks for the example but for conversation sake where on the Duergar Kavalrachni stat block does it indicate it get multi attack with the War Pick? I assume I'm missing something so I was just wanted to ask?
... on the stat block for the entry that you linked..? Nowhere.
On the entry in the bestiary..? 1st entry under actions. Weeeiirrd.
Duergar Kavalrachni
The kavalrachni are duergar cavalry, trained to fight while riding steeders.
Cavalry Training. When the duergar hits a target with a melee attack while mounted on a female steeder, the steeder can make one melee attack against the same target as a reaction.
Duergar Resilience. The duergar has advantage on saving throws against poison, spells, and illusions, as well as to resist being charmed or paralyzed.
Sunlight Sensitivity. While in sunlight, the duergar has disadvantage on attack rolls, as well as on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.
Actions
Multiattack.The duergar makes two war pick attacks.
War Pick.Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8 + 2) piercing damage plus 5 (2d4) poison damage.
Heavy Crossbow.Ranged Weapon Attack: +2 to hit, range 100/400 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d10) piercing damage.
Shared Invisibility (Recharges after a Short or Long Rest). The duergar magically turns invisible for up to 1 hour or until it attacks, it casts a spell, or its concentration is broken (as if concentrating on a spell). Any equipment the duergar wears or carries is invisible with it. While the invisible duergar is mounted on a female steeder, the steeder is invisible as well. The invisibility ends early on the steeder immediately after it attacks.
Oh, good. I thought I made another of my incorrect observations. What is interesting given the "[monster] tag" that you started off with links to the incorrect entry. So, does one report this content error some somebody?
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
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Is a melee weapon attack listed in a monster (NPC) stat block (lets say like the mace attack for the Thug) a melee weapon attack that takes an action or the attack action using that melee weapon?
(I know that, generally speaking, a monster (NPC) take all/most actions that a PC can.)
Is there a specific creature's stat block you're curious about, or just in general? In general, if a creature comes with a weapon, then the stat block will include that as an explicit attack.
If you're talking about a creature picking up a weapon and using it ad-hoc, then you'd just have to calculate hit/damage from the creature's stats as you would for anyone else.
[edit] Like the Sprite
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
The thug or sprite would be a fine example. But really any stat block that has a weapon attack in it.
My specific question is: does attacking with that weapon use the attack action, or is it an action that makes an attack using that weapon?
I ask because of the strange interaction it may or may not have with beast companions and steel defenders.
Mmm, okay, that is a great question! Luckily, there's a readily available answer: no.
Monsters do not have the Attack action, they only have the specific actions listed in their stat block, and that includes any attacks made with a weapon. The reason for this is simple: monsters can't do more than one thing unless their stat block explicitly says so. Creatures with Multiattack list the specific attacks which are eligible for use with that discrete action.
A good example of this breakdown would be to compare the Duergar Hammerer and Duergar Kavalrachni. Both have the multiattack action, and both list exactly which attacks are made with that action. The Hammerer makes one claw attack, and one hammer attack. The Kavalrachni makes two War Pick attacks. Despite the fact that the Kavalrachni also has a Heavy Crossbow attack, that is explicitly not an option for use with Multiattack.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Crazy to me. So they could take the attack action normally, as in "When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action." But the action in it's stat block with a weapon is not the attack action? That means a steel defender can not grapple anything, yes?
Oh, I think I misunderstood what you meant. Anyone can take the Attack action; it's one of the basic actions available to all creatures (as alluded to in the actions quote) like Dash or Hide. I thought you were alluding to multiattack allowing more things than specified.
Yes, they can grapple. This section should contain the info you're looking for.
[edit] Going back to multiattack for a second, grappling is not an option for that action, unless the creature's stat block explicitly lists grappling within the multiattack description. So for the Duergar from before, they can choose to take the Attack action to grapple (as their entire action), but they cannot substitute a grapple for one of the attacks made via the multiattack action. Multiattack is not the same as Extra Attack.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Right. The steel defender can only take the actions in its stat block or the actions listed in the artificer’s ability, meaning no attack action, meaning it can’t grapple. It’s a silly thing to think about, but my brain won’t shut it off.
Correct, and that is on purpose. Companion creatures are more limited in what they can do for the sake of balance. The Steel Defender of a Battle Smith has different capabilities than a Beast Master Ranger's Companion (which can be instructed to take the Attack action).
[edit] On that particular note, consider the fact that you need only use a bonus action to command your Steel Defender, yet a Ranger must use their action to command their Ranger's Companion. The Steel Defender also has the ability to both heal itself, can be healed by a cantrip (Mending), and can be revived by you if it dies. IMO, Steel Defender comes out ahead by a mile.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Well, the BMR vs BSA debate rages on. The general rule thoughts on the actions in the stat block is mainly why I posted here.
Well, hopefully, I haven't added to the confusion. :P
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
LOL! Not at all.
I need as many thoughts on this as I can get. I like what you are saying and agree with you. I think it's a "specific beats general" kind of situation.
Thanks!
Thanks for the example but for conversation sake where on the Duergar Kavalrachni stat block does it indicate it get multi attack with the War Pick? I assume I'm missing something so I was just wanted to ask?
... on the stat block for the entry that you linked..? Nowhere.
On the entry in the bestiary..? 1st entry under actions. Weeeiirrd.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Oh, good. I thought I made another of my incorrect observations. What is interesting given the "[monster] tag" that you started off with links to the incorrect entry. So, does one report this content error some somebody?
Yeah, post that to the bug thread.
Curse you, Sigred! You beat me to it!
Lol, I'm just as surprised as you are
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.