Hi all! I'm just beginning to get into D&D, for the first time since high school! I'm building a Hexblade Warlock to get into a game. I've got questions about some of the class powers. Suppose I have the Thirsting Blade Eldritch Invocation, which grants two attacks per action. I am guessing I can use a cantrip with each attack; is this correct? In that case, could I use something like Boom Blade twice on one foe, and have it stack? (Incidentally, with Boom Blade, when it says the target takes damage if they "move", does that literally mean "move", as in take any action except staying still, or does it mean "move" in game terms as in moving to a different space?). If not, could I use something like Green Flame Blade twice, since the effect is immediate and instantaneous?
Also, I'm wondering, with two weapon fighting, can a Warlock use one of these cantrips with the bonus action attack with the other hand as well? And on that subject, as there are only a couple of short paragraphs about two-weapon fighting in the PHB, is it possible to gain more than one attack with the second hand? I mean for Fighters especially. That is, does a high level fighter still only get one attack with the secondary hand, even when' s/he has three or four attacks per action?
I know there are several questions! lol. I've got good deal more to ask as I create my character, too :) So thanks in advance to anyone who would care to field one or more of these questions...
Two weapon fighting need two light weapons in the hand before the 1st Attack action. Cantrips spell is a spell attack. It isn't a weapon attack. So no, two-weapon fighting doesn't work with spell attack.
Two weapons fighting allows you to use the Bonusaction to make an attack with one of the weapons when you use Attack action. The Extra attack allows you to make additional attack(s) after taking Attack Action. A level 20 fighter could make 5 weapon attacks in total with Two weapons fighting. 4 attacks from Attack action with Extra attack feature and 1 attack as a Bonus action.
I'd like to mention that the cantrips in question state: "As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails. "
This means that your whole action is used to make a melee attack and cast the spell.
Thirsting Blade just allows you to make another attack when using the Attack Action, just like Extra Attack does. I wouldn't think that it would allow you to use the melee cantrips at all if you chose to multi-attack instead of devote your action to the cantrip as indicated in the spell desriptions. This also applies to Bonus Action attacks, no cantrip riders allowed.
For Booming Blade, the movement referred to is, going to another hex/square willing. It doesn't mean that swinging a sword to make an attack will set off the Thunder damage, nor will forced movement(knockbacks, etc) on the part of the target.
The casting time for Eldritch Blast and Booming Blade is 1 Action, not 1 attack. On your turn you can perform 1 Action. For EB or BB that Action would be "Cast A Spell". If you choose "Attack", you can attack with a weapon. If you have Thirsting Blade, it explicitly says that when you take the Attack action on your turn, you can attack twice with your pact weapon instead of just once. You can't substitute a spell or even a cantrip for one of those attacks, you can't even substitute another weapon.
Suppose I have the Thirsting Blade Eldritch Invocation, which grants two attacks per action (1).
I am guessing I can use a cantrip with each attack; is this correct? (2)
In that case, could I use something like Boom Blade twice on one foe, and have it stack? (3)
(Incidentally, with Boom Blade, when it says the target takes damage if they "move", does that literally mean "move", as in take any action except staying still, or does it mean "move" in game terms as in moving to a different space?). (4)
If not, could I use something like Green Flame Blade twice, since the effect is immediate and instantaneous? (5)
Also, I'm wondering, with two weapon fighting, can a Warlock use one of these cantrips with the bonus action attack with the other hand as well? (6)
And on that subject, as there are only a couple of short paragraphs about two-weapon fighting in the PHB, is it possible to gain more than one attack with the second hand? (7)
I mean for Fighters especially. That is, does a high level fighter still only get one attack with the secondary hand, even when' s/he has three or four attacks per action? (8)
Thirsting Blade does not grant you two attacks per action. It grants you two attacks per Attack action. This is a specificactionwhich is not ever used for casting spells.
That is not correct. You cast all spells, including cantrips, by taking the [Tooltip Not Found] action.
No, you cannot. The [Tooltip Not Found] action is limited to one spell per action. IIRC, Warlocks do not get any features which modify this, but I'll include a list of ways you can cast more spells at the end of this post.
If you're using grids, then it's simply moving to a different space. If you are using Theatre of the Mind, or some other method of tracking distance & position during combat, ask your DM how they want to handle it. In general, the trigger for Booming Blade is "willing movement" which is the creature using their own speed to physically cross a distance of (x) feet.
No, the [Tooltip Not Found] and Attack actions are mutually exclusive, and you must take the Attack action to use Two-Weapon Fighting.
No, never. What you can accomplish with a Bonus Action is heavily regulated across the entire system of D&D5e for balance.
No, for the same reason as #7. The most that anyone can typically achieve with a bonus action is going to be roughly equivalent to one weapon attack.
So I see that basically all of your questions boil down to a misunderstanding of what actions do in 5e. That's not a big deal, and easy to fix. You're new to the system after all! Plus, if you're just new to 5e, a lot of stuff is handled differently than prior editions. I would recommend you read all of Chapter 9: Combat to get you up to speed, and particularly the sections on Actions in Combat, and Making an Attack. Then move over to Chapter 10: Spellcasting, and specific attention to the section on Casting a Spell.
Specifically touching on the SCAG (Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide) melee cantrips, your perception of how they work is inverted. They are not melee weapon attacks that include a spell; they are spells that include a melee weapon attack. You cast the spell (using the [Tooltip Not Found] action), and that spell has you make a single melee weapon attack as part of the casting.
Now, how can you get multiple castings of these cantrips? One method is to multiclass into Fighter for two levels to get Action Surge. Using this ability allows you to (once per short/long rest) take one additional action (not bonus action or reaction; just action) on the same turn you use it. That action may be used to take the [Tooltip Not Found] action, which can be used on casting a SCAG cantrip.
The other method is to multiclass into Sorcerer for three levels to get Metamagic, and learn the Twinned Spell and/or Quickened Spell Metamagic options. This is a popular option for Warlocks since Sorcerer levels give you access to more spells, more spell slots, and both classes use Charisma as their spellcasting stat. There is a lot of synergy between these two classes.
Twinned Spell allows you to cast the same spell twice, once on two targets within 5 feet of each other, with a single use of the [Tooltip Not Found] action. The caveat with this option is that spells which are capable of affecting more than a single target are ineligible for use, so you cannot ever use this feature with Green-Flame Blade. You can, however, use it with Booming Blade.
Quickened Spell allows you to cast a spell, which normally has a casting time of 1 action, with a bonus action. This means you could use your action on the [Tooltip Not Found] action to cast one cantrip, and then use Quickened spell to cast another cantrip as a bonus action. The caveat with this option is that you need to stay within the confines of the Bonus Action Spellcasting rule. Basically, if you cast any spell as a bonus action (whether the casting time is naturally 1 bonus action or modified to 1 bonus action via Quickened Spell), the only spells which may be cast with your actual action must be cantrips with a casting time of 1 action. If you're just using cantrips anyway, it's a non-issue, but be aware of it.
There is a third method which will be of great interest to you, but relies on your DM to grant it: Illusionist's Bracers. This is the Holy Grail of equipment for cantrip builds. If you have these, you can cast a cantrip as normal (using the [Tooltip Not Found] action), and then just straight up cast it again as a bonus action.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thank you all for clarifying so much! I have one question, incidentally: I am guessing the Eldritch Smite Invocation works as a spell, in that you couldn't, for example, cast Booming Blade with one strike and Eldritch Smite with the second (if you have Thirsting Blade)? And conversely if you've got Illusionist's Bracers, does that mean you can use a melee cantrip with your second weapon bonus action attack?
So I was reading about the Sorcerer and I'm getting an idea of the possibilities of dipping for three levels. It seems pretty promising. But I also get the sense a single class Warlock can have comparable power. So if I'm wrong, and you tell me that the "Sorlock" can be more powerful in battle than a single class Hexblade Warlock then I would have a myriad of questions about that class combination!
Would it be fair to say that if and when one reaches 20th level, the Sorlock would be at an advantage compared to the Warlock?
I'll be sure to read up on what you have suggested.
Once again, thank you all for your time, and in advance again.
"Eldritch Smite Invocation works as a spell": Incorrect.
It requires using a spell slot, but it doesn't work as a spell. It is a class feature
It doesn't work with Thirsting Blade or any multiple attack method because it can only occur once per turn.
Eldritch Smite works with a weapon attack and Most of the time, you use the Attack action to make a weapon attack.
"second weapon bonus action attack": There is no such thing.
There is a Bonus action that allows you to make a weapon attack but I won't call it "second weapon bonus action attack"
2nd, keep in mind that you only have one Bonus action per turn.
Bonus action could do many things. For some example:
If the target drops to 0 hit points before this Hax spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature.
You could mark a creature with Hexblade’s Curse. (note: I use "mark" instead of "Mark" because "mark" isn't a name of actions)
Illusionist's Bracers:
It allows you to use the Bonus action to cast (melee or range) cantrip, if and only if you use Cast a Spellaction to cast a Cantrip spell.
I think it works with Booming Blade since it is a Cantrip spell.
Again, keep in mind that you only have one Bonus action per turn. For example, if you cast Magic Stone, you can't use the Bonus action again in the same turn because you already use it.
Multiclass:
If you are considering multiclass with Sorcerer, start with Sorcerer. Sorcerer has Proficiency with Constitution Saving Throws. This will help you to maintain the Concentration when taking damage. Note: just because you start with Sorcerer, it doesn't mean Sorcerer class level needs to be higher than Warlock.
If you are considering doing weapon build, you could start with Fighter.
Again it gives you Proficiency with Constitution Saving Throws.
The Fighting Style can either boost your AC (defence) or damage depending on your choice.
Eldritch Knight also provides extra spell slots although it isn't as much as multiclass with Sorcerer.
If you don't pick The Hexblade as the Warlock subclass, then Fighter also has the benefit for giving you Proficiencies with all armor and shield.
I also heard Paladin and Warlock multiclass is good.
With respect to Eldritch Smite, I understand it can only be used once per turn. Since as you stated, it is not a spell, then could one not use a cantrip like Booming Blade with one of the two attacks (provided by Thirsting Blade), and Eldritch Smite with the other attack? It only states you can only use Eldritch Smite once per turn, but that doesn't seem to preclude employing a cantrip on another attack.
Sorry for. the incorrect terminology!
With respect to Illusionist's Bracers, or for that matter Quickened MetaMagic, with it can one cast a cantrip like Booming Blade or an invocation like Eldritch Smite along with one's attack with a second weapon, all in a single bonus action? Or is that too much to ask! :)
Multiclassing with Sorcerer seems really appealing, but I'd like to gain a certain level as a Warlock before switching to Sorcerer for three levels. I can then return to being a Warlock, correct?
The Paladin seems appealing too! After all, I would become an Oathbreaker at level 3, and Oathbreaker is another term for a Warlock, so there is some poetic symmetry there! :)
Ok, I do not quite understand your question. However, I will try to answer it:
If you use Thirsting Blade, then you can't use Booming Blade. Since Thirsting Blade requires using the Attack action, then you can't use Cast a Spell action after using the Attack action.
Eldritch Smite can occur once in oneof the attacks(Note: I use "attack" instead of "Attack action" because I am referring to making an attack not Attack action). It doesn't matter how the attack is delivered. It could be one attack from Attack action (i.e. Thirsting Blade, Extra attack from Paladin or Fighter), Booming Blade, an attack from Bonus action (don't have to be two-weapon fighting) or some special Action such as Ranger's Horde Breaker.
Keep in mind that Thirsting Blade and Extra attack doesn't add on each other.
If you use Illusionist's Bracers or Quickened MetaMagic, you can use Eldritch Smite on the Bonus action if and only if you haven't use Eldritch Smite yet.
Keep in mind that you maybe able to use the Bonus action before the Action if the Bonus action doesn't request taking Action in the 1st place.
If you plan to take some spell that requires Concentration, I recommend starting with Sorcerer at lv 1 and multiclass into Warlock at lv2. If you ain't, then it doesn't really matter.
I'm still full of questions, but I guess I'll have to gradually work out the details as I play! Just getting into 5E, haven't played D&D since high school. After all, no use trying to plan all of the details as I level up in advance. Still, thanks again for all the clarification, you have given me a lot of information to go on for the long term, I think :)
I'm still full of questions, but I guess I'll have to gradually work out the details as I play! Just getting into 5E, haven't played D&D since high school. After all, no use trying to plan all of the details as I level up in advance. Still, thanks again for all the clarification, you have given me a lot of information to go on for the long term, I think :)
I am a little different here. I only know 5E and I haven't played any older edition before.
With respect to Eldritch Smite, I understand it can only be used once per turn. Since as you stated, it is not a spell, then could one not use a cantrip like Booming Blade with one of the two attacks (provided by Thirsting Blade), and Eldritch Smite with the other attack? It only states you can only use Eldritch Smite once per turn, but that doesn't seem to preclude employing a cantrip on another attack.
Okay, you're still not getting the concept of how actions work in 5e. Please, read the entirety of Chapters 9 & 10 that I linked earlier, and that will clear up so much for you!
Thirsting Blade does not give you two actions. It gives you two attacksonly when you take the Attackaction, and "action" & "attack" are not synonyms for the same thing. Trust me when I say this is a very common misconception for people jumping into 5e. I've played every edition, and I had the same issue with 5e at first. NBD!
The first thing to understand about combat in 5e is the "Action Economy". Every creature (PCs and NPCs) has 4 components available during a round of combat: 1 Action, 1 Bonus Action, 1 Movement, and 1 Reaction. Everything that you can possibly do in the game is accomplished by using one or more of these components, and your 1 "Action" is the main area of focus.
On your turn in combat, you can use your 1 "Action" on a bunch of different options. The most common uses are on the Attack action, and the [Tooltip Not Found] action. They are mutually exclusive actions; you can choose to do one or the other on your turn because you only have oneaction.
The Attack action allows you to make ranged/melee attacks with a weapon against a target, and that's all this action is for. By default, nobody can make any more than one attack with this action. When you take this action in combat, Thirsting Blade allows you to make two weapon attacks instead of just one. Thirsting Blade has no affect on anything other than this specific action. You cannot use this action to cast spells.
The [Tooltip Not Found] action allows you to... cast a spell! You take this action when you decide to cast Booming Blade, and Thirsting Blade has no interaction with this spell (or any other spell) whatsoever. You do not get to cast the spell twice, nor do you get to make two melee weapon attacks with the spell.
Booming Blade is a spell. You take the [Tooltip Not Found] action to cast this spell. This spell has you make one melee weapon attack against the target, and the effects of the spell happen if you hit the target. Hit or miss, your action is complete.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
1) On a turn a character has ONE action and possibly ONE bonus action they can take. (There are class features that can grant an additional action but not a bonus action).
2) There are SPECIFIC things you can do with the action
- ATTACK action
- CAST a spell action
- HIDE action
- DISENGAGE action
- DASH action
- HELP action
- SEARCH action
- Any other activity that your character wants to attempt that the DM decides requires an action.
When you spend your action you choose ONE action to take.
3) Making a weapon attack requires taking the ATTACK action.
- Thirsting blade allows you to make two attacks using your pact weapon only IF you take the ATTACK action. You can NOT cast a spell when you take the ATTACK action
4) Casting a spell requires the character to take the CAST A SPELL action.
- Booming blade is a SPELL, the material component of the spell requires making a melee attack with a weapon but it is STILL a cast a spell action. Thirsting blade does not APPLY. Extra Attack feature from other classes does not apply. You make ONE melee attack as a part of casting the booming blade SPELL.
5) Eldritch Smite is another warlock feature. ONE time each turn when you make an attack with your pact weapon you can expend a spell slot to do additional damage AFTER you know the attack hits. If you take the ATTACK action you could use Eldritch smite on an attack that hits. If you use booming blade and hit with the weapon you can also use Eldritch smite since both involve making an attack with your pact weapon. In one case you took the ATTACK action and in the other the CAST A SPELL action. When you took the ATTACK action you can make two attacks with thirsting blade. When you used booming blade you made ONE attack as part of the spell. If the attack hits you can choose to use a spell slot to do additional damage.
6) Two weapon fighting uses your BONUS ACTION. IF you are holding two weapons (one in each hand, both are light unless you have the dual wielder feat), THEN IF you take the ATTACK action (not the cast a spell action) then you can make an additional weapon attack with the weapon you are holding in your other hand. This uses your BONUS ACTION for the attack. There are many class features and spells that grant uses for a BONUS ACTION but the character has only ONE bonus action and must choose which they want to use. For example, a hexblade warlock may have the hex spell. This spell costs a bonus action to cast and when a target dies you can use a bonus action to move it to a new target. If you use your BONUS ACTION to cast hex then you can NOT make a two weapon fighting attack even if you also take the ATTACK action because you have used your bonus action for something else.
Key points to remember.
ONE Action (except for some class features that may grant an extra one under certain circumstances - fighter action surge for example)
ONE Bonus Action
Choose how to spend them on the actions and bonus action options available to your character.
Okay... now I really get what you mean! I see, about the structure of the turn and all... so if everyone's not too bored :D, a couple questions to see if I've got the right ideas?
So with Thirsting Blade, you take your attack action to make two attacks. So you can use Eldritch Smite with the first or second attack, and make the other attack without the Eldritch Smite? I could not find a means of really enhancing that other attack, maybe some magic item?
You simply can not cast a spell when taking your action to make two attacks with Thirsting Blade, right...
This seems doubtful perhaps, even though it seems technically valid to me... if you use Quickened Metamagic, with two weapon fighting, could you use your bonus action to cast a spell such as Banishing Smite with a melee attack made with your second weapon,, after having cast Banishing Smite to strike with your primary hand's weapon for your action that round? That would seem like a very powerful ability. Illusionist's Bracers only work for cantrips, still pretty powerful though.
If I cast Booming Blade on a creature, will it still get an opportunity attack on me if I then move away? And if so, could I instead cast Booming Blade on the creature, then disengage as a bonus action, and then use my movement to move away?
I am really trying to conceive my Hexblade Warlock as a highly formidable weapon and magic specialist against the most powerful creature I can target, maybe even taking out weak creatures first to gather hit points and cast buffs before engaging that powerful creature. So I don't think he would be quite a tank, more a one on one specialist. My question is, is the can the Hexblade accomplish this role well when compared to Paladins, Fighters, Rangers, Barbarians, etc?
So with Thirsting Blade, you take your attack action to make two attacks. So you can use Eldritch Smite with the first or second attack, and make the other attack without the Eldritch Smite?
correct
This seems doubtful perhaps, even though it seems technically valid to me... if you use Quickened Metamagic, with two-weapon fighting, could you use your bonus action to cast a spell such as Banishing Smite with a melee attack made with your second weapon,, after having cast Banishing Smite to strike with your primary hand's weapon for your action that round? That would seem like a very powerful ability. Illusionist's Bracers only work for cantrips, still pretty powerful though.
Not all correct.
Quickened Metamagic only works with Cast a Spell action. Two-weapon fighting only works with the Attack action. Those two will never co-exist with each other.
Banishing Smite requires to use of the Bonus action to Cast a spell. Since you used the Bonus action, you can't use it again for the Two-weapon fighting.
Quickened Metamagic only works with "a spell that has a casting time of 1 action". Since Banishing Smite requires to use of the Bonus action to Cast a spell, they don't work with each other.
Also, if you don't make an attack in the same turn that you cast Banishing Smite, you may lose the benefit from the spell whenever you take damage because it requires Concentration. So I would suggest use Banishing Smite and Attack action in the same turn.
I think Booming Blade can work with Banishing Smite. One requires Action and the other requires Bonus Action.
will it still get an opportunity attack on me if I then move away?
It will always get an opportunity attack if you move away unless it already uses its reaction. Booming Blade has nothing to do with it.
Some features/ways to prevent opportunity attack (not a complete list):
Cunning Action from Rogue. You can use Disengage as a Bonus action. Keep in mind that you only have one Bonus action per turn. Only Monk and Rogue can use Disengage as a Bonus action. Most of the other class can't
Shocking Grasp: Opportunity attack require Reaction. Since it can't use Reaction, it can't use the Opportunity attack.
Misty Step: teleport spell won't trigger Opportunity attack. You can use your Bonus action to teleport away with this spell if you have the spell slot for it.
No, the sorcerer must follow the rule for casting a spell as a bonus action and casting another spell on the same turn; the other spell must be a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Okay, I really think the pieces have fallen into place now! The processor combat is pretty clear to me now, and I have some sense of the Hexblade's capabilities. I'll have questions in the future of course, but now I should stop getting ahead of myself, and just create my character with the digital character sheet!
Does someone here have an opinion about the viability of a Hexblade Warlock as a one on one fighter on par with any of the most formidable, not really a tank though? I feel like it's tricky and not as straightforward to be that as compared to the main martial classes, I guess mainly Fighters, Paladins and Barbarians, but possible.
I'm gonna have to find an online game. Doe any of you guys on this thread play online, by any chance? Any pointers for how to get into it?
Okay, two more questions, I can't resist:
Could I cast Banishing Smite as a bonus action at the beginning of my turn, and then use Eldritch Smite with my first attack of my attack action, and have the damage stack if I hit? Or is there a rule which would preclude this, and perhaps please a reference to such a rule?
Can I push a creature with the Eldritch Blast that pushes 10ft (forget the name, sorry) into a space under the Cloud of Dagger spell? Could I even pull them in with Lightning Lure into a space in front of me with Cloud of Daggers cast, or can I not have line of sight through the Cloud of Daggers to cast the lightning lure. And again, if either of these are possible, does the damage stack, and if not perhaps please reference the rule?
Okay, no more questions I swear! Many thanks! @Frozen_Fruit @Wtfdndad @jd2319 @Sigred @David42
I heard the Hexblade is good. I don't know too much about it because I ain't interested in it.
Could I cast Banishing Smite as a bonus action at the beginning of my turn, and then use Eldritch Smite with my first attack of my attack action, and have the damage stack if I hit? Or is there a rule which would preclude this, and perhaps please a reference to such a rule?
Yes, you can. You can use Bonus Action before the Action. You can even move in between different actions.
Banishing Smite happens when every you hit a creature. It doesn't matter if you hit the creature at the 1st attack, the 2nd attack or even the Opportunity attack
Can I push a creature with the Eldritch Blast that pushes 10ft (forget the name, sorry) into a space under the Cloud of Dagger spell? Could I even pull them in with Lightning Lure into a space in front of me with Cloud of Daggers cast
I believe you can. When you push or pull a creature into the Cloud of Dagger, it won't immediately deal damage to the creature. The damage happens at the start of the creature's turn. Could someone else confirm these two statements? I am not 100% sure that I am correct on this.
Cloud of Daggers doesn't block sight. If the spell block sight, it will say that it does. For some example: Darkness or Fog Cloud.
The enemy may try to end your Cloud of Dagger by dealing damage on you. If you don't start with Sorcerer or Fighter, consider taking War Caster feat and/or Resilient (con). Even if you start with Sorcerer or Fighter still considering about the War Caster feat.
Keep in mind that the Cloud of Dagger and Banishing Smite can't co-exist with each other because they both require Concentration.
One thing to keep in mind: if you cast Banishing Smite, you can't cast another spell before or after it in the same turn unless the other spell is a Cantrip spell. The general rule (usually true but not always true): If somehow you are able to cast two spells in one turn, one of the spells have to be a Cantrip spell.
The rule on casting a spell as a bonus action applies only on the turn you cast the spell. For example, spiritual weapon can be cast as a bonus action, and it lasts for 1 minute. On the turn you cast it, you can’t cast another spell before or after it, unless that spell is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. Until spiritual weapon ends, it gives you the option of controlling its spectral weapon as a bonus action. That bonus action does not involve casting a spell, despite the fact that it’s granted by a spell, so you can control the weapon and cast whatever spell you like on the same turn.
One thing to keep in mind: if you cast Banishing Smite, you can't cast another spell before or after it in the same turn unless the other spell is a Cantrip spell. The general rule (usually true but not always true): If somehow you are able to cast two spells in one turn, one of the spells have to be a Cantrip spell.
Okay you got me ;D
Just this... most of the cantrips take an action, as do most spells... so what are the mechanics of this? Will it be explained in the spell casting section of PHB or DMG?
So do you play D&D in person, or online, if I may ask?
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Hi all! I'm just beginning to get into D&D, for the first time since high school! I'm building a Hexblade Warlock to get into a game. I've got questions about some of the class powers. Suppose I have the Thirsting Blade Eldritch Invocation, which grants two attacks per action. I am guessing I can use a cantrip with each attack; is this correct? In that case, could I use something like Boom Blade twice on one foe, and have it stack? (Incidentally, with Boom Blade, when it says the target takes damage if they "move", does that literally mean "move", as in take any action except staying still, or does it mean "move" in game terms as in moving to a different space?). If not, could I use something like Green Flame Blade twice, since the effect is immediate and instantaneous?
Also, I'm wondering, with two weapon fighting, can a Warlock use one of these cantrips with the bonus action attack with the other hand as well? And on that subject, as there are only a couple of short paragraphs about two-weapon fighting in the PHB, is it possible to gain more than one attack with the second hand? I mean for Fighters especially. That is, does a high level fighter still only get one attack with the secondary hand, even when' s/he has three or four attacks per action?
I know there are several questions! lol. I've got good deal more to ask as I create my character, too :) So thanks in advance to anyone who would care to field one or more of these questions...
No, you are completely wrong about a few things.
Two weapon fighting need two light weapons in the hand before the 1st Attack action. Cantrips spell is a spell attack. It isn't a weapon attack. So no, two-weapon fighting doesn't work with spell attack.
Two weapons fighting allows you to use the Bonus action to make an attack with one of the weapons when you use Attack action. The Extra attack allows you to make additional attack(s) after taking Attack Action. A level 20 fighter could make 5 weapon attacks in total with Two weapons fighting. 4 attacks from Attack action with Extra attack feature and 1 attack as a Bonus action.
Thirsting Blade says "Attack action". Attack action isn't a Cast a Spell action. So you can't cast the spell twice with Thirsting Blade. Please read this: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#ActionsinCombat
Casting a Cantrips spell is a Cast a Spell action. You could use Cast a Spell action to make a range/melee spell attack.
Attack action means using your weapon to make an attack.
I'd like to mention that the cantrips in question state: "As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails. "
This means that your whole action is used to make a melee attack and cast the spell.
Thirsting Blade just allows you to make another attack when using the Attack Action, just like Extra Attack does. I wouldn't think that it would allow you to use the melee cantrips at all if you chose to multi-attack instead of devote your action to the cantrip as indicated in the spell desriptions. This also applies to Bonus Action attacks, no cantrip riders allowed.
For Booming Blade, the movement referred to is, going to another hex/square willing. It doesn't mean that swinging a sword to make an attack will set off the Thunder damage, nor will forced movement(knockbacks, etc) on the part of the target.
The casting time for Eldritch Blast and Booming Blade is 1 Action, not 1 attack. On your turn you can perform 1 Action. For EB or BB that Action would be "Cast A Spell". If you choose "Attack", you can attack with a weapon. If you have Thirsting Blade, it explicitly says that when you take the Attack action on your turn, you can attack twice with your pact weapon instead of just once. You can't substitute a spell or even a cantrip for one of those attacks, you can't even substitute another weapon.
So I see that basically all of your questions boil down to a misunderstanding of what actions do in 5e. That's not a big deal, and easy to fix. You're new to the system after all! Plus, if you're just new to 5e, a lot of stuff is handled differently than prior editions. I would recommend you read all of Chapter 9: Combat to get you up to speed, and particularly the sections on Actions in Combat, and Making an Attack. Then move over to Chapter 10: Spellcasting, and specific attention to the section on Casting a Spell.
Specifically touching on the SCAG (Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide) melee cantrips, your perception of how they work is inverted. They are not melee weapon attacks that include a spell; they are spells that include a melee weapon attack. You cast the spell (using the [Tooltip Not Found] action), and that spell has you make a single melee weapon attack as part of the casting.
Now, how can you get multiple castings of these cantrips? One method is to multiclass into Fighter for two levels to get Action Surge. Using this ability allows you to (once per short/long rest) take one additional action (not bonus action or reaction; just action) on the same turn you use it. That action may be used to take the [Tooltip Not Found] action, which can be used on casting a SCAG cantrip.
The other method is to multiclass into Sorcerer for three levels to get Metamagic, and learn the Twinned Spell and/or Quickened Spell Metamagic options. This is a popular option for Warlocks since Sorcerer levels give you access to more spells, more spell slots, and both classes use Charisma as their spellcasting stat. There is a lot of synergy between these two classes.
Twinned Spell allows you to cast the same spell twice, once on two targets within 5 feet of each other, with a single use of the [Tooltip Not Found] action. The caveat with this option is that spells which are capable of affecting more than a single target are ineligible for use, so you cannot ever use this feature with Green-Flame Blade. You can, however, use it with Booming Blade.
Quickened Spell allows you to cast a spell, which normally has a casting time of 1 action, with a bonus action. This means you could use your action on the [Tooltip Not Found] action to cast one cantrip, and then use Quickened spell to cast another cantrip as a bonus action. The caveat with this option is that you need to stay within the confines of the Bonus Action Spellcasting rule. Basically, if you cast any spell as a bonus action (whether the casting time is naturally 1 bonus action or modified to 1 bonus action via Quickened Spell), the only spells which may be cast with your actual action must be cantrips with a casting time of 1 action. If you're just using cantrips anyway, it's a non-issue, but be aware of it.
There is a third method which will be of great interest to you, but relies on your DM to grant it: Illusionist's Bracers. This is the Holy Grail of equipment for cantrip builds. If you have these, you can cast a cantrip as normal (using the [Tooltip Not Found] action), and then just straight up cast it again as a bonus action.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thank you all for clarifying so much! I have one question, incidentally: I am guessing the Eldritch Smite Invocation works as a spell, in that you couldn't, for example, cast Booming Blade with one strike and Eldritch Smite with the second (if you have Thirsting Blade)? And conversely if you've got Illusionist's Bracers, does that mean you can use a melee cantrip with your second weapon bonus action attack?
So I was reading about the Sorcerer and I'm getting an idea of the possibilities of dipping for three levels. It seems pretty promising. But I also get the sense a single class Warlock can have comparable power. So if I'm wrong, and you tell me that the "Sorlock" can be more powerful in battle than a single class Hexblade Warlock then I would have a myriad of questions about that class combination!
Would it be fair to say that if and when one reaches 20th level, the Sorlock would be at an advantage compared to the Warlock?
I'll be sure to read up on what you have suggested.
Once again, thank you all for your time, and in advance again.
"Eldritch Smite Invocation works as a spell": Incorrect.
"second weapon bonus action attack": There is no such thing.
Illusionist's Bracers:
Multiclass:
If you are considering multiclass with Sorcerer, start with Sorcerer. Sorcerer has Proficiency with Constitution Saving Throws. This will help you to maintain the Concentration when taking damage. Note: just because you start with Sorcerer, it doesn't mean Sorcerer class level needs to be higher than Warlock.
If you are considering doing weapon build, you could start with Fighter.
I also heard Paladin and Warlock multiclass is good.
With respect to Eldritch Smite, I understand it can only be used once per turn. Since as you stated, it is not a spell, then could one not use a cantrip like Booming Blade with one of the two attacks (provided by Thirsting Blade), and Eldritch Smite with the other attack? It only states you can only use Eldritch Smite once per turn, but that doesn't seem to preclude employing a cantrip on another attack.
Sorry for. the incorrect terminology!
With respect to Illusionist's Bracers, or for that matter Quickened MetaMagic, with it can one cast a cantrip like Booming Blade or an invocation like Eldritch Smite along with one's attack with a second weapon, all in a single bonus action? Or is that too much to ask! :)
Multiclassing with Sorcerer seems really appealing, but I'd like to gain a certain level as a Warlock before switching to Sorcerer for three levels. I can then return to being a Warlock, correct?
The Paladin seems appealing too! After all, I would become an Oathbreaker at level 3, and Oathbreaker is another term for a Warlock, so there is some poetic symmetry there! :)
Thanks again!
Ok, I do not quite understand your question. However, I will try to answer it:
If you use Thirsting Blade, then you can't use Booming Blade. Since Thirsting Blade requires using the Attack action, then you can't use Cast a Spell action after using the Attack action.
Eldritch Smite can occur once in one of the attacks (Note: I use "attack" instead of "Attack action" because I am referring to making an attack not Attack action). It doesn't matter how the attack is delivered. It could be one attack from Attack action (i.e. Thirsting Blade, Extra attack from Paladin or Fighter), Booming Blade, an attack from Bonus action (don't have to be two-weapon fighting) or some special Action such as Ranger's Horde Breaker.
Keep in mind that Thirsting Blade and Extra attack doesn't add on each other.
If you use Illusionist's Bracers or Quickened MetaMagic, you can use Eldritch Smite on the Bonus action if and only if you haven't use Eldritch Smite yet.
Keep in mind that you may be able to use the Bonus action before the Action if the Bonus action doesn't request taking Action in the 1st place.
If you plan to take some spell that requires Concentration, I recommend starting with Sorcerer at lv 1 and multiclass into Warlock at lv2. If you ain't, then it doesn't really matter.
I'm still full of questions, but I guess I'll have to gradually work out the details as I play! Just getting into 5E, haven't played D&D since high school. After all, no use trying to plan all of the details as I level up in advance. Still, thanks again for all the clarification, you have given me a lot of information to go on for the long term, I think :)
I am a little different here. I only know 5E and I haven't played any older edition before.
I see... I haven't played since '92, when I graduated high school! That was AD&D, not nearly as technical or strategic in some respects :D
Okay, you're still not getting the concept of how actions work in 5e. Please, read the entirety of Chapters 9 & 10 that I linked earlier, and that will clear up so much for you!
Thirsting Blade does not give you two actions. It gives you two attacks only when you take the Attack action, and "action" & "attack" are not synonyms for the same thing. Trust me when I say this is a very common misconception for people jumping into 5e. I've played every edition, and I had the same issue with 5e at first. NBD!
The first thing to understand about combat in 5e is the "Action Economy". Every creature (PCs and NPCs) has 4 components available during a round of combat: 1 Action, 1 Bonus Action, 1 Movement, and 1 Reaction. Everything that you can possibly do in the game is accomplished by using one or more of these components, and your 1 "Action" is the main area of focus.
On your turn in combat, you can use your 1 "Action" on a bunch of different options. The most common uses are on the Attack action, and the [Tooltip Not Found] action. They are mutually exclusive actions; you can choose to do one or the other on your turn because you only have one action.
The Attack action allows you to make ranged/melee attacks with a weapon against a target, and that's all this action is for. By default, nobody can make any more than one attack with this action. When you take this action in combat, Thirsting Blade allows you to make two weapon attacks instead of just one. Thirsting Blade has no affect on anything other than this specific action. You cannot use this action to cast spells.
The [Tooltip Not Found] action allows you to... cast a spell! You take this action when you decide to cast Booming Blade, and Thirsting Blade has no interaction with this spell (or any other spell) whatsoever. You do not get to cast the spell twice, nor do you get to make two melee weapon attacks with the spell.
Booming Blade is a spell. You take the [Tooltip Not Found] action to cast this spell. This spell has you make one melee weapon attack against the target, and the effects of the spell happen if you hit the target. Hit or miss, your action is complete.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Just to reiterate what Sigred said.
1) On a turn a character has ONE action and possibly ONE bonus action they can take. (There are class features that can grant an additional action but not a bonus action).
2) There are SPECIFIC things you can do with the action
- ATTACK action
- CAST a spell action
- HIDE action
- DISENGAGE action
- DASH action
- HELP action
- SEARCH action
- Any other activity that your character wants to attempt that the DM decides requires an action.
When you spend your action you choose ONE action to take.
3) Making a weapon attack requires taking the ATTACK action.
- Thirsting blade allows you to make two attacks using your pact weapon only IF you take the ATTACK action. You can NOT cast a spell when you take the ATTACK action
4) Casting a spell requires the character to take the CAST A SPELL action.
- Booming blade is a SPELL, the material component of the spell requires making a melee attack with a weapon but it is STILL a cast a spell action. Thirsting blade does not APPLY. Extra Attack feature from other classes does not apply. You make ONE melee attack as a part of casting the booming blade SPELL.
5) Eldritch Smite is another warlock feature. ONE time each turn when you make an attack with your pact weapon you can expend a spell slot to do additional damage AFTER you know the attack hits. If you take the ATTACK action you could use Eldritch smite on an attack that hits. If you use booming blade and hit with the weapon you can also use Eldritch smite since both involve making an attack with your pact weapon. In one case you took the ATTACK action and in the other the CAST A SPELL action. When you took the ATTACK action you can make two attacks with thirsting blade. When you used booming blade you made ONE attack as part of the spell. If the attack hits you can choose to use a spell slot to do additional damage.
6) Two weapon fighting uses your BONUS ACTION. IF you are holding two weapons (one in each hand, both are light unless you have the dual wielder feat), THEN IF you take the ATTACK action (not the cast a spell action) then you can make an additional weapon attack with the weapon you are holding in your other hand. This uses your BONUS ACTION for the attack. There are many class features and spells that grant uses for a BONUS ACTION but the character has only ONE bonus action and must choose which they want to use. For example, a hexblade warlock may have the hex spell. This spell costs a bonus action to cast and when a target dies you can use a bonus action to move it to a new target. If you use your BONUS ACTION to cast hex then you can NOT make a two weapon fighting attack even if you also take the ATTACK action because you have used your bonus action for something else.
Key points to remember.
ONE Action (except for some class features that may grant an extra one under certain circumstances - fighter action surge for example)
ONE Bonus Action
Choose how to spend them on the actions and bonus action options available to your character.
Okay... now I really get what you mean! I see, about the structure of the turn and all... so if everyone's not too bored :D, a couple questions to see if I've got the right ideas?
So with Thirsting Blade, you take your attack action to make two attacks. So you can use Eldritch Smite with the first or second attack, and make the other attack without the Eldritch Smite? I could not find a means of really enhancing that other attack, maybe some magic item?
You simply can not cast a spell when taking your action to make two attacks with Thirsting Blade, right...
This seems doubtful perhaps, even though it seems technically valid to me... if you use Quickened Metamagic, with two weapon fighting, could you use your bonus action to cast a spell such as Banishing Smite with a melee attack made with your second weapon,, after having cast Banishing Smite to strike with your primary hand's weapon for your action that round? That would seem like a very powerful ability. Illusionist's Bracers only work for cantrips, still pretty powerful though.
If I cast Booming Blade on a creature, will it still get an opportunity attack on me if I then move away? And if so, could I instead cast Booming Blade on the creature, then disengage as a bonus action, and then use my movement to move away?
I am really trying to conceive my Hexblade Warlock as a highly formidable weapon and magic specialist against the most powerful creature I can target, maybe even taking out weak creatures first to gather hit points and cast buffs before engaging that powerful creature. So I don't think he would be quite a tank, more a one on one specialist. My question is, is the can the Hexblade accomplish this role well when compared to Paladins, Fighters, Rangers, Barbarians, etc?
Thank you all once more, for taking the time!
correct
Not all correct.
Quickened Metamagic only works with Cast a Spell action. Two-weapon fighting only works with the Attack action. Those two will never co-exist with each other.
Banishing Smite requires to use of the Bonus action to Cast a spell. Since you used the Bonus action, you can't use it again for the Two-weapon fighting.
Quickened Metamagic only works with "a spell that has a casting time of 1 action". Since Banishing Smite requires to use of the Bonus action to Cast a spell, they don't work with each other.
Also, if you don't make an attack in the same turn that you cast Banishing Smite, you may lose the benefit from the spell whenever you take damage because it requires Concentration. So I would suggest use Banishing Smite and Attack action in the same turn.
I think Booming Blade can work with Banishing Smite. One requires Action and the other requires Bonus Action.
It will always get an opportunity attack if you move away unless it already uses its reaction. Booming Blade has nothing to do with it.
Some features/ways to prevent opportunity attack (not a complete list):
Lastly, keep in mind about the following:
Also, Hexblade and Pact of the Blade don't work well with Two-weapon fighting. Both of those feature/subclass can only link one single weapon.
Okay, I really think the pieces have fallen into place now! The processor combat is pretty clear to me now, and I have some sense of the Hexblade's capabilities. I'll have questions in the future of course, but now I should stop getting ahead of myself, and just create my character with the digital character sheet!
Does someone here have an opinion about the viability of a Hexblade Warlock as a one on one fighter on par with any of the most formidable, not really a tank though? I feel like it's tricky and not as straightforward to be that as compared to the main martial classes, I guess mainly Fighters, Paladins and Barbarians, but possible.
I'm gonna have to find an online game. Doe any of you guys on this thread play online, by any chance? Any pointers for how to get into it?
Okay, two more questions, I can't resist:
Could I cast Banishing Smite as a bonus action at the beginning of my turn, and then use Eldritch Smite with my first attack of my attack action, and have the damage stack if I hit? Or is there a rule which would preclude this, and perhaps please a reference to such a rule?
Can I push a creature with the Eldritch Blast that pushes 10ft (forget the name, sorry) into a space under the Cloud of Dagger spell? Could I even pull them in with Lightning Lure into a space in front of me with Cloud of Daggers cast, or can I not have line of sight through the Cloud of Daggers to cast the lightning lure. And again, if either of these are possible, does the damage stack, and if not perhaps please reference the rule?
Okay, no more questions I swear! Many thanks! @Frozen_Fruit @Wtfdndad @jd2319 @Sigred @David42
Try to find a game in this part of the forum: Looking for Players & Groups
I heard the Hexblade is good. I don't know too much about it because I ain't interested in it.
Yes, you can. You can use Bonus Action before the Action. You can even move in between different actions.
Banishing Smite happens when every you hit a creature. It doesn't matter if you hit the creature at the 1st attack, the 2nd attack or even the Opportunity attack
I believe you can. When you push or pull a creature into the Cloud of Dagger, it won't immediately deal damage to the creature. The damage happens at the start of the creature's turn. Could someone else confirm these two statements? I am not 100% sure that I am correct on this.
Cloud of Daggers doesn't block sight. If the spell block sight, it will say that it does. For some example: Darkness or Fog Cloud.
The enemy may try to end your Cloud of Dagger by dealing damage on you. If you don't start with Sorcerer or Fighter, consider taking War Caster feat and/or Resilient (con). Even if you start with Sorcerer or Fighter still considering about the War Caster feat.
Keep in mind that the Cloud of Dagger and Banishing Smite can't co-exist with each other because they both require Concentration.
One thing to keep in mind: if you cast Banishing Smite, you can't cast another spell before or after it in the same turn unless the other spell is a Cantrip spell. The general rule (usually true but not always true): If somehow you are able to cast two spells in one turn, one of the spells have to be a Cantrip spell.
I doubt about it XD
Okay you got me ;D
Just this... most of the cantrips take an action, as do most spells... so what are the mechanics of this? Will it be explained in the spell casting section of PHB or DMG?
So do you play D&D in person, or online, if I may ask?