Well, the main thing here is that if you attack (and have 2 light weapons), you can interrupt that to use two-weapon fighting. Nobody can dispute that because you can always interrupt your attack halfway though (Extra Attack does not require you use all attacks). The main question is if you can interrupt it with two-weapon fighting, and still get your Extra Attack in despite having interrupted that action.
Basically if your a level 5 dual wielder fighter, can you do attack action (1 attack), bonus action twf (2 attack), then finish your attack action (3 attack).
Edit:
So no, because you had to end that attack to do twf.
Or yes, because you are allowed to twf in the middle of a action without ending it.
If it isn't clear this is just me summarizing this thread up.
You cannot interrupt the attack action with a bonus action attack, courtesy of Two-Weapon Fighting. You can only use such an attack when taking the attack action. But since it's specifically an action and not merely an attack, the trigger is the completion of the action. This completion is reached whenever you cease the attack action, regardless of whether you have utilized it to its full ability.
This is based not only on the plain language of the PHB, but also a tweet by Jeremy Crawford. You don't have to like it. You may even think it's silly. But that's the clear intent behind the rules as written.
The logic of "you can't interrupt a multi-attack Attack Action with a Bonus Action" inevitably leads to "you can't interrupt a multi-attack Attack Action with movement," which is not only absurd but also explicitly incorrect.
There is no "finish one action before you start another" general rule to be found anywhere in the PHB. Requiring that folks find a citation to disprove your assumption that such a rule exists is... circular, and begs the question. If there's a "you must take all the attacks granted by your Attack Action before taking any other Bonus or Reaction action" rule out there, show it to us. Otherwise, it doesn't exist, and seems implausible given what we know about movement breaking up attacks, reactions happening mid-turn, and being able to freely "choose when to take a Bonus Action."
I come bearing a message from IamSposta, who would like to point out that "once the first attack has been made, it locks the character into the Attack Action for their entire turn and therefore clearly satisfies the requirements for T-WF so the Bonus Action can be taken regardless of whether or not the Action has been completed."
Remember, Crawford was originally tweeting about Shield Master. He was trying to say that if a rule says you have to do X before doing Y, there's no general rule lets you do Y in the middle of X. He's arguably right about that. The problem is Extra Attack wasn't intended to block you from taking dependent bonus actions (more on this below.)
But if you want to get super technical, this doesn't apply to TWF anyways. The prerequisite isn't taking the Attack action, it's making an attack with the Attack action while holding two light melee weapons. You can meet that criteria as soon as you finish your first attack.
So when it comes to design intent, there's no good reason to forbid taking the bonus action in the middle of the Attack action. This is just an unfortunate side effect of how Extra Attack is implemented. If they'd gone the Action Surge/Haste route and worded Extra Attack something like "If you take the Attack action during your turn, you can take the Attack action a second time at any point before your turn ends" , that would've removed the need for special rules for breaking up your attacks and sidestepped the question of when are you done with the Attack action because it'd still be an atomic action.
Either way, the difference between both rulings is going to be extremely small. Remember, you can use either weapon for any of your Attack action attacks. Nothing is stopping you from using one hand for your first attack, and your other weapon for the second attack. And once you've done that, you've met the TWF conditions twice, once with each hand, and so you can use either hand for the TWF bonus attack. The only difference this makes is that a character without TWF Fighting Style might want to use their no-modifier TWF damage roll to finish a weak enemy instead of wasting the higher damage from their Extra Attack damage rolls.
It can have some significance for low level monks as well, who are trying to alternate d8 staff attacks and d4 unarmed attacks to spread damage effectively.
Either way, the difference between both rulings is going to be extremely small. Remember, you can use either weapon for any of your Attack action attacks. Nothing is stopping you from using one hand for your first attack, and your other weapon for the second attack. And once you've done that, you've met the TWF conditions twice, once with each hand, and so you can use either hand for the TWF bonus attack. The only difference this makes is that a character without TWF Fighting Style might want to use their no-modifier TWF damage roll to finish a weak enemy instead of wasting the higher damage from their Extra Attack damage rolls.
Your last point there is why I asked the question. Because of my characters setup with life drinker and no TWF means my bonus action attack does the equivalent of two average d8s less damage on an attack.
Thank you everyone for their replies, I didn't realise it would cause such a debate and sorry for that
Edit: Although I could average out the damage if I alternated hands as also mentioned
When you take your action on your turn, you can take one of the actions presented here, an action you gained from your class or a special feature, or an action that you improvise. Many monsters have action options of their own in their stat blocks.
When you describe an action not detailed elsewhere in the rules, the DM tells you whether that action is possible and what kind of roll you need to make, if any, to determine success or failure.
Attack
The most common action to take in combat is the Attack action, whether you are swinging a sword, firing an arrow from a bow, or brawling with your fists.
With this action, you make one melee or ranged attack. See the "Making an Attack" section for the rules that govern attacks.
Certain features, such as the Extra Attack feature of the fighter, allow you to make more than one attack with this action.
Breaking Up Your Move
You can break up your movement on your turn, using some of your speed before and after your action. For example, if you have a speed of 30 feet, you can move 10 feet, take your action, and then move 20 feet.
Moving Between Attacks
If you take an action that includes more than one weapon attack, you can break up your movement even further by moving between those attacks. For example, a fighter who can make two attacks with the Extra Attack feature and who has a speed of 25 feet could move 10 feet, make an attack, move 15 feet, and then attack again.
Making an Attack
Whether you're striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or making an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has a simple structure.
1. Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an object, or a location.
2. Determine modifiers. The DM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, spells, special abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your attack roll.
3. Resolve the attack. You make the attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause special effects in addition to or instead of damage.
If there's ever any question whether something you're doing counts as an attack, the rule is simple: if you're making an attack roll, you're making an attack.
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
Bonus Actions
Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a bonus action. The Cunning Action feature, for example, allows a rogue to take a bonus action. You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a bonus action. You otherwise don't have a bonus action to take.
You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action.
Does the “when” in the Eldritch Knight’s War Magic feature mean the bonus attack comes after you cast the cantrip, or can it come before? The bonus action comes after the cantrip, since using your action to cast a cantrip is what gives you the ability to make the weapon attack as a bonus action. That said, a DM would break nothing in the system by allowing an Eldritch Knight to reverse the order of the cantrip and the weapon attack.
Does using a bonus action break invisibility from a warlock’s One with Shadows invocation? Taking a bonus action breaks the invisibility of a warlock’s One with Shadows. A bonus action is an action.
Does Crossbow Expert let you fire a hand crossbow and then fire it again as a bonus action? It does! Take a look at the feat’s third benefit. It says you can attack with a hand crossbow as a bonus action when you use the Attack action to attack with a one-handed weapon. A hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon, so it can, indeed, be used for both attacks, assuming you have a hand free to load the hand crossbow between the two attacks.
Great Weapon Master With the Great Weapon Master feat, do you have to take the bonus action immediately, or could you move and then use it on the same turn? You take the bonus action on your turn, anytime after you hit with the attack that grants the bonus action. So yes, you can move before taking the bonus action (if you have movement remaining).
Sentinel Does the attack granted by the third benefit of the Sentinel feat take place before or after the triggering attack? The bonus attack takes place after the triggering attack. Here’s why: the feat doesn’t specify the bonus attack’s timing, and when a reaction has no timing specified, the reaction occurs after its trigger finishes (DMG, 252). In contrast, an opportunity attack specifically takes place before its trigger finishes—that is, right before the target creature leaves your reach (PH, 195).
The Shield Master feat lets you shove someone as a bonus action if you take the Attack action. Can you take that bonus action before the Attack action? No. The bonus action provided by the Shield Master feat has a precondition: that you take the Attack action on your turn. Intending to take that action isn’t sufficient; you must actually take it before you can take the bonus action. During your turn, you do get to decide when to take the bonus action after you’ve taken the Attack action. This sort of if-then setup appears in many of the game’s rules. The “if” must be satisfied before the “then” comes into play.
With two-weapon fighting, can I use both attacks (normal and bonus) to shove a creature? No. Two-weapon fighting (PH, 195) doesn’t grant the bonus attack unless the first attack is made with a light melee weapon. Shoving a creature is a special melee attack that does not involve the use of a weapon.
Can I make an attack with one weapon, then draw a second weapon with my other hand and qualify to use two-weapon fighting? To use the two-weapon fighting bonus action (PH, 195), you must have both weapons in hand when you make the first attack. If you’re instead fighting with two or more weapons as part of the Extra Attack feature, the rule for the two-weapon fighting bonus action doesn’t apply. The rule for that bonus action applies only to itself, not to any other use of two or more weapons in the game.
"As DM, I allow the bonus action of Shield Master to happen after you make at least one attack with the Attack action, since making one attack fulfills the action's basic definition (PH, 192). If you have Extra Attack, you decide which of the attacks the bonus action follows." -Jeremy Crawford (March 11, 2019)
"No general rule allows you to insert a bonus action between attacks in a single action. You can interrupt a multiple-attack action with a bonus action/reaction only if the trigger of the bonus action/reaction is an attack, rather than the action." -Jeremy Crawford (May 11, 2018)
It basically says you can't bonus action between attacks unless there is a specific trigger.
"There’s no such thing as “main hand” and “off hand.” Everyone is ambidextrous in 5e. You can make your first main action attack with your right hand weapon, your second main action attack with your left hand weapon, and then your bonus action two weapon fighting attack with either weapon."
This would be the easiest solution. I just lose my charisma bonus to damage on the third attack with the life drinker weapon. It would essentially even out the dame between attacks two and three
Just to clarify - that thread does NOT say "you can't bonus action between attacks unless there is a specific trigger."
Read down farther in that twitter thread ..
"Ah ha! Now I get what you're driving at. I was focused on bonus actions with triggers. You're talking about bonus actions without triggers. I'll clarify things! Thanks for your patience."
"My tweet below was addressing bonus actions and reactions that have triggers. A bonus action that has no trigger—such as Cunning Action and the misty step spell—can take place whenever you want on your turn (PH, 189)."
If you follow JC tweets or consider them in rulings (which I typically don't except for the SAC), he makes it clear that a bonus action CAN take place at any point in your turn, including between the attacks of the attack action. His tweet was referring ONLY to bonus actions that have a pre-requisite. If you have to do X to have gain bonus action Y then you can't take Y until X has occurred. So you can't use a bonus action shove from shield master or make a dual wielding bonus action attack until after you have taken then Attack action.
In addition, the bonus action text in these cases only requires that the attack action be taken and says nothing about completing the attack action so a DM could quite possibly rule that only one attack is required to be considered as having taken the attack action which then enables the bonus action off-hand attack between any extra attacks.
I'm not sure where folks get the idea that actions are atomic in D&D 5e and that nothing else can be done while completing an entire action. This is not stated anywhere in the rules and there are other examples that are explicitly supported. The best one is ..
Cast a spell -> Opponent counterspells -> You use your reaction to counterspell the counterspell while still casting your spell. This is perfectly allowed RAW and clearly involves casting a spell while in the midst of casting another spell.
The thing is, Saga, you have quoted the rules for two-weapon fighting, which include the actual clause that allows the bonus action attack to interrupt the entire Attack action. You chose to highlight the first condition, but not the second condition. Namely that the bonus action attack is triggered by a single attack.
Note the phrasing - "When you take the Attack action *and attack* with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand." (Emphasis mine) When a character has Extra Attack the second, and final, clause could occur in either (or for a high level Fighter) any of the attacks resulting from the Attack action.
So in my view, the bonus action attack can absolutely occur at any time after the first attack, and pair with that attack. The subsequent attacks can of course use any weapon/hand without prejudice. No "main weapon"/"offhand weapon" shenanigans. 😀
Main attack, main attack and then bonus action attack
This is correct. You have to start and complete your regular Attack action before you can do your Bonus Action offhand attack.
no rule says that, you can make one of your attacks, then use your bonus action attack then your second attack, you can also attack, move, bonus action attack, move attack, mechanically it makes 0 difference and like I said before there is nothing in the rulebook that says "You have to start and complete your regular Attack action before you can do your Bonus Action offhand attack."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D&D is not a video game, you don't need a tank or a healer, for thar matter you can turn pretty much any class into a frontliner, heavy damage dealer or healer with the right feats and items.
Main attack, main attack and then bonus action attack
This is correct. You have to start and complete your regular Attack action before you can do your Bonus Action offhand attack.
no rule says that, you can make one of your attacks, then use your bonus action attack then your second attack, you can also attack, move, bonus action attack, move attack, mechanically it makes 0 difference and like I said before there is nothing in the rulebook that says "You have to start and complete your regular Attack action before you can do your Bonus Action offhand attack."
Actually, a Sage Advice statement, I think form Jeremy before he ceased being "official" Sage Advice, said that if a bonus action has a trigger, that trigger must be completed before the enabled bonus action can be taken. The situation that led to that was the Shield Master push - it's trigger is taking the Attack action. So all the attacks from the Attack action must have been made before the push can be done.
Two-weapon fighting is different, however - as I stated before, it's trigger is an attack deriving from the Attack action, nit the Attack action itself. So in this case the bonus action, the attack from the other hand, can occur in the midst of the Attack action attacks.
Well, the main thing here is that if you attack (and have 2 light weapons), you can interrupt that to use two-weapon fighting. Nobody can dispute that because you can always interrupt your attack halfway though (Extra Attack does not require you use all attacks). The main question is if you can interrupt it with two-weapon fighting, and still get your Extra Attack in despite having interrupted that action.
Basically if your a level 5 dual wielder fighter, can you do attack action (1 attack), bonus action twf (2 attack), then finish your attack action (3 attack).
Edit:
So no, because you had to end that attack to do twf.
Or yes, because you are allowed to twf in the middle of a action without ending it.
If it isn't clear this is just me summarizing this thread up.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
For crying out loud.
You cannot interrupt the attack action with a bonus action attack, courtesy of Two-Weapon Fighting. You can only use such an attack when taking the attack action. But since it's specifically an action and not merely an attack, the trigger is the completion of the action. This completion is reached whenever you cease the attack action, regardless of whether you have utilized it to its full ability.
This is based not only on the plain language of the PHB, but also a tweet by Jeremy Crawford. You don't have to like it. You may even think it's silly. But that's the clear intent behind the rules as written.
I cringe internally every time anyone brings up tweets by JC. He's practically the definition of inconsistent.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
The logic of "you can't interrupt a multi-attack Attack Action with a Bonus Action" inevitably leads to "you can't interrupt a multi-attack Attack Action with movement," which is not only absurd but also explicitly incorrect.
There is no "finish one action before you start another" general rule to be found anywhere in the PHB. Requiring that folks find a citation to disprove your assumption that such a rule exists is... circular, and begs the question. If there's a "you must take all the attacks granted by your Attack Action before taking any other Bonus or Reaction action" rule out there, show it to us. Otherwise, it doesn't exist, and seems implausible given what we know about movement breaking up attacks, reactions happening mid-turn, and being able to freely "choose when to take a Bonus Action."
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I come bearing a message from IamSposta, who would like to point out that "once the first attack has been made, it locks the character into the Attack Action for their entire turn and therefore clearly satisfies the requirements for T-WF so the Bonus Action can be taken regardless of whether or not the Action has been completed."
If we're debating JC's tweet, there's two other crucial tweets that need to be taken into consideration. Here's the first:
Remember, Crawford was originally tweeting about Shield Master. He was trying to say that if a rule says you have to do X before doing Y, there's no general rule lets you do Y in the middle of X. He's arguably right about that. The problem is Extra Attack wasn't intended to block you from taking dependent bonus actions (more on this below.)
But if you want to get super technical, this doesn't apply to TWF anyways. The prerequisite isn't taking the Attack action, it's making an attack with the Attack action while holding two light melee weapons. You can meet that criteria as soon as you finish your first attack.
Here's the other important tweet:
So when it comes to design intent, there's no good reason to forbid taking the bonus action in the middle of the Attack action. This is just an unfortunate side effect of how Extra Attack is implemented. If they'd gone the Action Surge/Haste route and worded Extra Attack something like "If you take the Attack action during your turn, you can take the Attack action a second time at any point before your turn ends" , that would've removed the need for special rules for breaking up your attacks and sidestepped the question of when are you done with the Attack action because it'd still be an atomic action.
Either way, the difference between both rulings is going to be extremely small. Remember, you can use either weapon for any of your Attack action attacks. Nothing is stopping you from using one hand for your first attack, and your other weapon for the second attack. And once you've done that, you've met the TWF conditions twice, once with each hand, and so you can use either hand for the TWF bonus attack. The only difference this makes is that a character without TWF Fighting Style might want to use their no-modifier TWF damage roll to finish a weak enemy instead of wasting the higher damage from their Extra Attack damage rolls.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
It can have some significance for low level monks as well, who are trying to alternate d8 staff attacks and d4 unarmed attacks to spread damage effectively.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Your last point there is why I asked the question. Because of my characters setup with life drinker and no TWF means my bonus action attack does the equivalent of two average d8s less damage on an attack.
Thank you everyone for their replies, I didn't realise it would cause such a debate and sorry for that
Edit: Although I could average out the damage if I alternated hands as also mentioned
Actions in Combat
When you take your action on your turn, you can take one of the actions presented here, an action you gained from your class or a special feature, or an action that you improvise. Many monsters have action options of their own in their stat blocks.
When you describe an action not detailed elsewhere in the rules, the DM tells you whether that action is possible and what kind of roll you need to make, if any, to determine success or failure.
Attack
The most common action to take in combat is the Attack action, whether you are swinging a sword, firing an arrow from a bow, or brawling with your fists.
With this action, you make one melee or ranged attack. See the "Making an Attack" section for the rules that govern attacks.
Certain features, such as the Extra Attack feature of the fighter, allow you to make more than one attack with this action.
Breaking Up Your Move
You can break up your movement on your turn, using some of your speed before and after your action. For example, if you have a speed of 30 feet, you can move 10 feet, take your action, and then move 20 feet.
Moving Between Attacks
If you take an action that includes more than one weapon attack, you can break up your movement even further by moving between those attacks. For example, a fighter who can make two attacks with the Extra Attack feature and who has a speed of 25 feet could move 10 feet, make an attack, move 15 feet, and then attack again.
Making an Attack
Whether you're striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or making an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has a simple structure.
1. Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an object, or a location.
2. Determine modifiers. The DM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, spells, special abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your attack roll.
3. Resolve the attack. You make the attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause special effects in addition to or instead of damage.
If there's ever any question whether something you're doing counts as an attack, the rule is simple: if you're making an attack roll, you're making an attack.
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
Bonus Actions
Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a bonus action. The Cunning Action feature, for example, allows a rogue to take a bonus action. You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a bonus action. You otherwise don't have a bonus action to take.
You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action.
Does the “when” in the Eldritch Knight’s War Magic feature mean the bonus attack comes after you cast the cantrip, or can it come before? The bonus action comes after the cantrip, since using your action to cast a cantrip is what gives you the ability to make the weapon attack as a bonus action. That said, a DM would break nothing in the system by allowing an Eldritch Knight to reverse the order of the cantrip and the weapon attack.
Does using a bonus action break invisibility from a warlock’s One with Shadows invocation? Taking a bonus action breaks the invisibility of a warlock’s One with Shadows. A bonus action is an action.
Does Crossbow Expert let you fire a hand crossbow and then fire it again as a bonus action? It does! Take a look at the feat’s third benefit. It says you can attack with a hand crossbow as a bonus action when you use the Attack action to attack with a one-handed weapon. A hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon, so it can, indeed, be used for both attacks, assuming you have a hand free to load the hand crossbow between the two attacks.
Great Weapon Master With the Great Weapon Master feat, do you have to take the bonus action immediately, or could you move and then use it on the same turn? You take the bonus action on your turn, anytime after you hit with the attack that grants the bonus action. So yes, you can move before taking the bonus action (if you have movement remaining).
Sentinel Does the attack granted by the third benefit of the Sentinel feat take place before or after the triggering attack? The bonus attack takes place after the triggering attack. Here’s why: the feat doesn’t specify the bonus attack’s timing, and when a reaction has no timing specified, the reaction occurs after its trigger finishes (DMG, 252). In contrast, an opportunity attack specifically takes place before its trigger finishes—that is, right before the target creature leaves your reach (PH, 195).
The Shield Master feat lets you shove someone as a bonus action if you take the Attack action. Can you take that bonus action before the Attack action? No. The bonus action provided by the Shield Master feat has a precondition: that you take the Attack action on your turn. Intending to take that action isn’t sufficient; you must actually take it before you can take the bonus action. During your turn, you do get to decide when to take the bonus action after you’ve taken the Attack action. This sort of if-then setup appears in many of the game’s rules. The “if” must be satisfied before the “then” comes into play.
With two-weapon fighting, can I use both attacks (normal and bonus) to shove a creature? No. Two-weapon fighting (PH, 195) doesn’t grant the bonus attack unless the first attack is made with a light melee weapon. Shoving a creature is a special melee attack that does not involve the use of a weapon.
Can I make an attack with one weapon, then draw a second weapon with my other hand and qualify to use two-weapon fighting? To use the two-weapon fighting bonus action (PH, 195), you must have both weapons in hand when you make the first attack. If you’re instead fighting with two or more weapons as part of the Extra Attack feature, the rule for the two-weapon fighting bonus action doesn’t apply. The rule for that bonus action applies only to itself, not to any other use of two or more weapons in the game.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2019/04/06/when-you-take-the-attack-action-is-the-trigger-for-the-two-weapon-fighting-bonus-action-attack-the-entire-attack-action/
https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/995024061267767298?lang=en
I do too. Unless it makes it in a book, sage advice compendium, or errata, it doesn't exist to me. I do use them from time to time, unfortunately.
Just to clarify - that thread does NOT say "you can't bonus action between attacks unless there is a specific trigger."
Read down farther in that twitter thread ..
"Ah ha! Now I get what you're driving at. I was focused on bonus actions with triggers. You're talking about bonus actions without triggers. I'll clarify things! Thanks for your patience."
"My tweet below was addressing bonus actions and reactions that have triggers. A bonus action that has no trigger—such as Cunning Action and the misty step spell—can take place whenever you want on your turn (PH, 189)."
If you follow JC tweets or consider them in rulings (which I typically don't except for the SAC), he makes it clear that a bonus action CAN take place at any point in your turn, including between the attacks of the attack action. His tweet was referring ONLY to bonus actions that have a pre-requisite. If you have to do X to have gain bonus action Y then you can't take Y until X has occurred. So you can't use a bonus action shove from shield master or make a dual wielding bonus action attack until after you have taken then Attack action.
In addition, the bonus action text in these cases only requires that the attack action be taken and says nothing about completing the attack action so a DM could quite possibly rule that only one attack is required to be considered as having taken the attack action which then enables the bonus action off-hand attack between any extra attacks.
I'm not sure where folks get the idea that actions are atomic in D&D 5e and that nothing else can be done while completing an entire action. This is not stated anywhere in the rules and there are other examples that are explicitly supported. The best one is ..
Cast a spell -> Opponent counterspells -> You use your reaction to counterspell the counterspell while still casting your spell. This is perfectly allowed RAW and clearly involves casting a spell while in the midst of casting another spell.
Thank you for the clarification, I will admit I did get lost slightly with the thread
The thing is, Saga, you have quoted the rules for two-weapon fighting, which include the actual clause that allows the bonus action attack to interrupt the entire Attack action. You chose to highlight the first condition, but not the second condition. Namely that the bonus action attack is triggered by a single attack.
Note the phrasing - "When you take the Attack action *and attack* with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand." (Emphasis mine) When a character has Extra Attack the second, and final, clause could occur in either (or for a high level Fighter) any of the attacks resulting from the Attack action.
So in my view, the bonus action attack can absolutely occur at any time after the first attack, and pair with that attack. The subsequent attacks can of course use any weapon/hand without prejudice. No "main weapon"/"offhand weapon" shenanigans. 😀
no rule says that, you can make one of your attacks, then use your bonus action attack then your second attack, you can also attack, move, bonus action attack, move attack, mechanically it makes 0 difference and like I said before there is nothing in the rulebook that says "You have to start and complete your regular Attack action before you can do your Bonus Action offhand attack."
D&D is not a video game, you don't need a tank or a healer, for thar matter you can turn pretty much any class into a frontliner, heavy damage dealer or healer with the right feats and items.
Actually, a Sage Advice statement, I think form Jeremy before he ceased being "official" Sage Advice, said that if a bonus action has a trigger, that trigger must be completed before the enabled bonus action can be taken. The situation that led to that was the Shield Master push - it's trigger is taking the Attack action. So all the attacks from the Attack action must have been made before the push can be done.
Two-weapon fighting is different, however - as I stated before, it's trigger is an attack deriving from the Attack action, nit the Attack action itself. So in this case the bonus action, the attack from the other hand, can occur in the midst of the Attack action attacks.
Just to be clear, the argument is that you can take your bonus action anytime even interrupting the attack action?
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"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
So are you saying you can perform your bonus action after the to-hit roll and before the damage roll?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Other than “that’s ridiculous,” I’m not sure there’s anything written that would prevent it.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.