Twilight Sanctuary create an area of effect in the shape of a 30 feet sphere centered on you, which moves with you. While most area of effects are created by spells, they are not necessarily always the case and other game feature, such as Twilight Sanctuary, can create one. Here's an official ruling making mention of it in the Sage Advice Compendium;
Does moonbeam deal damage when you cast it? What about when its effect moves onto a creature? The answer to both questions is no. Here’s some elaboration on that answer. Some spells and other game features create an area of effect that does something when a creature enters that area for the first time on a turn or when a creature starts its turn in that area...
You may have linked the incorrect quote, that one has nothing to do with Twilight Sanctuary, it is talking about the spell Moonbeam. Twilight Clerics do learn that spell, so, we're talking about the correct subclass, but, not the correct ability.
Nothing happens to creatures who enter the Sphere of Twilight or start their turn within the the Sphere of Twilight, so even that last sentence, speaking generally, isn't applicable either.
It's not a quote about Twilight Sanctuary, it's a quote mentioning some spells and other game features create an area of effect directly contrary to what you said before.
Also, an area of effects is not just for creatures who enter or start in them, some have effect on creature ending their turn in one, which is the case for this feature specifically.
Twilight Sanctuary create an area of effect in the shape of a 30 feet sphere centered on you, which moves with you. While most area of effects are created by spells, they are not necessarily always the case and other game feature, such as Twilight Sanctuary, can create one. Here's an official ruling making mention of it in the Sage Advice Compendium;
Does moonbeam deal damage when you cast it? What about when its effect moves onto a creature? The answer to both questions is no. Here’s some elaboration on that answer. Some spells and other game features create an area of effect that does something when a creature enters that area for the first time on a turn or when a creature starts its turn in that area...
You may have linked the incorrect quote, that one has nothing to do with Twilight Sanctuary, it is talking about the spell Moonbeam. Twilight Clerics do learn that spell, so, we're talking about the correct subclass, but, not the correct ability.
Nothing happens to creatures who enter the Sphere of Twilight or start their turn within the the Sphere of Twilight, so even that last sentence, speaking generally, isn't applicable either.
It's not a quote about Twilight Sanctuary, it's a quote mentioning some spells and other game features create an area of effect directly contrary to what you said before.
Also, an area of effects is not just for creatures who enter or start in them, some have effect on creature ending their turn in one, which is the case for this feature specifically.
I am describing a sphere, made of twilight. Yes, some AOEs are also spherical, but not all spheres are AOEs.
As for what AOEs are, they're well defined by the rules as
This can be found in Chapter 10: Spellcasting, and, believe it or not specifically applies to spells. Twilight Sanctuary is not a spell.
Your quote says:
"Some spells and other game features create an area of effect that does something when a creature enters that area for the first time on a turn or when a creature starts its turn in that area..."
It has nothing to do with twilight sanctuary or how it functions.
And, Chapter 10: Spellcasting, is, indeed, about spells. Believe it or not.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Within the cleric’s conjured area non-magical darkness becomes dim light; non-magical sunlight becomes dim light.
The problem is that that's not what the ability says. If you think it's useless and want to houserule it, then great! Houserule it! But the feature as written only does what it says it does, and that's not what it says it does.
I don't understand the problem. It simply and plainly states that the sphere is filled with dim light.. then everyone wants to argue that it almost never gets to be filled with dim light like it says. It just says it's filled with dim light.. so why can't people just let it be filled with dim light?
If a cleric’s divinely created magical twilight can't overcome natural light then how can a cleric’s divinely created magical healing overcome natural wounds?
It simply says it's filled with dim light then a bunch of people want to say that it isn't, I don't get the problem, sure it doesn't say it's always filled with dim light but it also never says in any situation that it isn't..
it plainly says that it is filled with dim light so i would imagine that it is filled with dim light smh
Within the cleric’s conjured area non-magical darkness becomes dim light; non-magical sunlight becomes dim light.
The problem is that that's not what the ability says. If you think it's useless and want to houserule it, then great! Houserule it! But the feature as written only does what it says it does, and that's not what it says it does.
I don't understand the problem. It simply and plainly states that the sphere is filled with dim light.. then everyone wants to argue that it almost never gets to be filled with dim light like it says. It just says it's filled with dim light.. so why can't people just let it be filled with dim light?
It's always filled with dim light. Do you know what happens to an area of any light that then gets filled with dim light? It gets brighter, because that's how light works. You cannot make an area darker by filling it with more light. The ability only says it adds light. It does not say it removes light that's already there.
If a cleric’s divinely created magical twilight can't overcome natural light then how can a cleric’s divinely created magical healing overcome natural wounds?
It can't. In fact, it can't twice over:
cure wounds won't actually re-attach severed body parts or anything like that. All it does is restore hit points. It simply can't overcome wounds.
If it could overcome wounds, we would still have the problem that there isn't any such thing as a natural wound. All wounds are artificial, by definition.
It's also deeply, deeply specious to make claims about what a CD can do based on what we know spells can do, as CDs aren't spells.
It simply says it's filled with dim light then a bunch of people want to say that it isn't, I don't get the problem, sure it doesn't say it's always filled with dim light but it also never says in any situation that it isn't..
No-one wants to say it isn't filled with dim light. The problem is people who don't understand what happens when something is filled with both dim light and bright light.
it plainly says that it is filled with dim light so i would imagine that it is filled with dim light smh
You cannot make an area darker by filling it with more light.
Bet?
If you got a partially covered continual flame, and you fully uncover that continual flame, while standing adjacent to the area of a darkness spell... you're going to "make an area darker by filling it with more light."
Anyway. The Twilight Sphere that this ability creates doesn't behave like light. Because it isn't. It's a magical sphere. One made of "soothing twilight".
Not familiar with what a shpere of twilight is or how it behaves since it is a magically created concept that doesn't exist in real life? Yea, me too! Good thing for us the ability tells us about it's attributes.
The sphere is:
made of twilight
centered on you
30ft radius
filled with dim light
moves with you
last a minute
can grant creatures benefits at the end of their turn
Those are traits this sphere has.
Of relevance "filled with dim light" is a trait of this magical sphere. Note it doesn't say sheds dim light. Nor radiate dim light. It doesn't describe an point of origin for the dim light to be coming from. The sphere itself, as a fundamental property of its nature and existence... is simply "filled with dim light".
Is that how normal non-magical light behaves? No.
This isn't a non-magical effect. So that shouldn't be a problem.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Just so I'm clear, the CD works exactly as written on the box on its own, right? The sphere still exists as a construct where the benefits can be provided. It just can't be used as automatic flight with the steps of the night, right?
I would disagree with the notion that Bright light does not prevent Dim Light from existing and vice versa within the rules of 5e DnD.
Any light level in DnD 5e is sort of environmental condition as in area can only have one light level, Darkness, Dim light or Bright Light... If the condition of "bright light" exists in an area, the condition of "Dim Light" cannot also exist at the same time, just as a person cannot be "slightly angry" and "incredibly pissed off" at the same time. If that was not the case, shadow blade would have advantage in many areas of bright light as the dim light condition would also be able to exist in the same space.
If feature tells us that an area is magically filled with the environmental condition of "Dim light", the ability is actively setting the Light level condition to be that of "Dim Light". It is not "adding light", it is setting a specific mechanical condition to the environment.
If an ability said it made everyone in an area slightly angry, obviously we wouldn't expect incredibly pissed off people people to calm down. However in a system where "Slightly angry" "Incredibly pissed off" are in fact defined conditions, we would absolutely expect "incredibly pissed off" people to also become "Slightly Angry"
What I'm getting at is that you should be reading "filled with dim light" as "Filled with the environmental condition of "Dim Light""
Yes. If dim light and bright light both exist in an area, it is lit by bright light. That doesn’t stop a source from from filling that same area with dim light.
I don't see how your candle example is relevant to the point I was making.
We know the ability is supposed to fill the sphere with the "dim light" condition, thereby overriding any other possible light conditions because a designer of the UA version of the subclass told us that is the case. The UA used the same wording as the released version with regards to the level light in twilight sanctuary as far as I'm aware, so there is very little reason to doubt the RAI here.
There are certainly legitmate questions you can ask... I think some of those questions such as "are there shadows in said region" are probably best answered in how each table choses to imagine the effect while others certainly would benefit from being clarified.
What I do not believe is a fair or honest stance at this point, is to act as if the ability to not supposed to dim light within the sphere. I could understand people disagreeing with the idea from a purely RAW point of view initially, despite the flavor text of both feature and class making it clear (to me) that dimming light is indeed RAI.
But now that I think we can all agree that RAI is established, perhaps the conversation surrounding this feature should move on to try and answer some of the legitmate questions you mentioned.
You cannot make an area darker by filling it with more light.
Bet?
The existence of bright light in an area does not prevent dim light from also existing in that space, and vice versa.
Saga is correctly pointing out the obvious.
You can tho... I posted an example, which you cut out.... ??? Therefore "You can't make an area darker by filling it with more light." is now proved false. Since, you can. If there is a way to do a thing. Then. You can do the thing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You cannot make an area darker by filling it with more light.
Bet?
The existence of bright light in an area does not prevent dim light from also existing in that space, and vice versa.
Saga is correctly pointing out the obvious.
You can tho... I posted an example, which you cut out.... ??? Therefore "You can't make an area darker by filling it with more light." is now proved false. Since, you can. If there is a way to do a thing. Then. You can do the thing.
I imagine TexasDevin cut out your example because your example didn't make any sense and did not demonstrate the situation it was intended to demonstrate.
Dim light is also called shadow and therefore it may make more sense to possibly have an area darker by filling it with dim light shadow.
My ruling will depend if any overlapping source of illumination is mundane or supernatural in natre like Twillight Sanctuary.
My reasoning is the following; the three degrees of illumination are normally a gauge of the presence or absence of light through ambiant darkness. In complete darkness is no light and in bright light no darkness. In between is dim light / shadow from both the presence of light and ambiant darkness not completely illuminated. Supernatural dim light / shadow may not rely on ambiant darkness to dim light, but on supernatural shadow produced and therefore may make an area darker.
I think that is a reasonable statement. It's a tough line to walk, though. Had they said it fills the area with shadows instead of dim light, then using it in darkness would logically not increase the lighting situation, and that is what I gather was intended based on the Sage Advice interview with JC. Really, the only sure way to indicate both improving darkness and lowering bright light is to say both.
Twilight Sanctuary is a globe filled with dim light, it's not a source of Dim Light. In a way think of it that it stabilizes photons in their relative places to the caster. It is not shadow, shadow can not brighten darkness, calling dim light as shadow is a misconception, still, since it is not a form of darkness it's effect can easily be overriden by brighter light even if it's natural(as unlike darkness light does not dispel light, brighter is visible, plain, simple, logical), and again if you look at darkness spell, you'll see that darkness emanates from a point much like the effect of light spell, but in a reversed way(with a reversed effect). Check the definition/story of domain, twilight domain is not a domain of shadows, but is a domain that fights against things that lurk in darkness and shadows, from drows, gloom stalkers to undead(check domain spells, it's obvious). I wouldn't make it dispelled by Darkness though,(or at least would ask for level 3 spell slot for it) as it is a spell like ability, not a spell, and it contradicts the real raison detre of the class. Darkness spell is entirely different than the darkness of night, think of darkness as massive positive charged particles which are capable of neutralizing natural photons en masse, like aerogel they just suck the energy out of photons at much faster rate...
It's not a quote about Twilight Sanctuary, it's a quote mentioning some spells and other game features create an area of effect directly contrary to what you said before.
Also, an area of effects is not just for creatures who enter or start in them, some have effect on creature ending their turn in one, which is the case for this feature specifically.
Your quote says:
"Some spells and other game features create an area of effect that does something when a creature enters that area for the first time on a turn or when a creature starts its turn in that area..."
It has nothing to do with twilight sanctuary or how it functions.
And, Chapter 10: Spellcasting, is, indeed, about spells. Believe it or not.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I don't understand the problem. It simply and plainly states that the sphere is filled with dim light.. then everyone wants to argue that it almost never gets to be filled with dim light like it says. It just says it's filled with dim light.. so why can't people just let it be filled with dim light?
If a cleric’s divinely created magical twilight can't overcome natural light then how can a cleric’s divinely created magical healing overcome natural wounds?
It simply says it's filled with dim light then a bunch of people want to say that it isn't, I don't get the problem, sure it doesn't say it's always filled with dim light but it also never says in any situation that it isn't..
it plainly says that it is filled with dim light so i would imagine that it is filled with dim light smh
It's always filled with dim light. Do you know what happens to an area of any light that then gets filled with dim light? It gets brighter, because that's how light works. You cannot make an area darker by filling it with more light. The ability only says it adds light. It does not say it removes light that's already there.
It can't. In fact, it can't twice over:
No-one wants to say it isn't filled with dim light. The problem is people who don't understand what happens when something is filled with both dim light and bright light.
Quite.
Bet?
If you got a partially covered continual flame, and you fully uncover that continual flame, while standing adjacent to the area of a darkness spell... you're going to "make an area darker by filling it with more light."
Anyway. The Twilight Sphere that this ability creates doesn't behave like light. Because it isn't. It's a magical sphere. One made of "soothing twilight".
Not familiar with what a shpere of twilight is or how it behaves since it is a magically created concept that doesn't exist in real life? Yea, me too! Good thing for us the ability tells us about it's attributes.
The sphere is:
Those are traits this sphere has.
Of relevance "filled with dim light" is a trait of this magical sphere. Note it doesn't say sheds dim light. Nor radiate dim light. It doesn't describe an point of origin for the dim light to be coming from. The sphere itself, as a fundamental property of its nature and existence... is simply "filled with dim light".
Is that how normal non-magical light behaves? No.
This isn't a non-magical effect. So that shouldn't be a problem.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Just so I'm clear, the CD works exactly as written on the box on its own, right? The sphere still exists as a construct where the benefits can be provided. It just can't be used as automatic flight with the steps of the night, right?
The existence of bright light in an area does not prevent dim light from also existing in that space, and vice versa.
Saga is correctly pointing out the obvious.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I would disagree with the notion that Bright light does not prevent Dim Light from existing and vice versa within the rules of 5e DnD.
Any light level in DnD 5e is sort of environmental condition as in area can only have one light level, Darkness, Dim light or Bright Light... If the condition of "bright light" exists in an area, the condition of "Dim Light" cannot also exist at the same time, just as a person cannot be "slightly angry" and "incredibly pissed off" at the same time. If that was not the case, shadow blade would have advantage in many areas of bright light as the dim light condition would also be able to exist in the same space.
If feature tells us that an area is magically filled with the environmental condition of "Dim light", the ability is actively setting the Light level condition to be that of "Dim Light". It is not "adding light", it is setting a specific mechanical condition to the environment.
If an ability said it made everyone in an area slightly angry, obviously we wouldn't expect incredibly pissed off people people to calm down. However in a system where "Slightly angry" "Incredibly pissed off" are in fact defined conditions, we would absolutely expect "incredibly pissed off" people to also become "Slightly Angry"
What I'm getting at is that you should be reading "filled with dim light" as "Filled with the environmental condition of "Dim Light""
Yes. If dim light and bright light both exist in an area, it is lit by bright light. That doesn’t stop a source from from filling that same area with dim light.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I don't see how your candle example is relevant to the point I was making.
We know the ability is supposed to fill the sphere with the "dim light" condition, thereby overriding any other possible light conditions because a designer of the UA version of the subclass told us that is the case. The UA used the same wording as the released version with regards to the level light in twilight sanctuary as far as I'm aware, so there is very little reason to doubt the RAI here.
https://twitter.com/Dan_Dillon_1/status/1179861283429990400
I am merely telling you how I believe you ought to read it to understand the RAI, I am not arguing that the wording could not be clearer.
There are certainly legitmate questions you can ask... I think some of those questions such as "are there shadows in said region" are probably best answered in how each table choses to imagine the effect while others certainly would benefit from being clarified.
What I do not believe is a fair or honest stance at this point, is to act as if the ability to not supposed to dim light within the sphere. I could understand people disagreeing with the idea from a purely RAW point of view initially, despite the flavor text of both feature and class making it clear (to me) that dimming light is indeed RAI.
But now that I think we can all agree that RAI is established, perhaps the conversation surrounding this feature should move on to try and answer some of the legitmate questions you mentioned.
You can tho... I posted an example, which you cut out.... ??? Therefore "You can't make an area darker by filling it with more light." is now proved false. Since, you can. If there is a way to do a thing. Then. You can do the thing.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I imagine TexasDevin cut out your example because your example didn't make any sense and did not demonstrate the situation it was intended to demonstrate.
Dim light is also called shadow and therefore it may make more sense to possibly have an area darker by filling it with
dim lightshadow.My ruling will depend if any overlapping source of illumination is mundane or supernatural in natre like Twillight Sanctuary.
My reasoning is the following; the three degrees of illumination are normally a gauge of the presence or absence of light through ambiant darkness. In complete darkness is no light and in bright light no darkness. In between is dim light / shadow from both the presence of light and ambiant darkness not completely illuminated. Supernatural dim light / shadow may not rely on ambiant darkness to dim light, but on supernatural shadow produced and therefore may make an area darker.
I think that is a reasonable statement. It's a tough line to walk, though. Had they said it fills the area with shadows instead of dim light, then using it in darkness would logically not increase the lighting situation, and that is what I gather was intended based on the Sage Advice interview with JC. Really, the only sure way to indicate both improving darkness and lowering bright light is to say both.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Twilight Sanctuary is a globe filled with dim light, it's not a source of Dim Light. In a way think of it that it stabilizes photons in their relative places to the caster. It is not shadow, shadow can not brighten darkness, calling dim light as shadow is a misconception, still, since it is not a form of darkness it's effect can easily be overriden by brighter light even if it's natural(as unlike darkness light does not dispel light, brighter is visible, plain, simple, logical), and again if you look at darkness spell, you'll see that darkness emanates from a point much like the effect of light spell, but in a reversed way(with a reversed effect). Check the definition/story of domain, twilight domain is not a domain of shadows, but is a domain that fights against things that lurk in darkness and shadows, from drows, gloom stalkers to undead(check domain spells, it's obvious). I wouldn't make it dispelled by Darkness though,(or at least would ask for level 3 spell slot for it) as it is a spell like ability, not a spell, and it contradicts the real raison detre of the class. Darkness spell is entirely different than the darkness of night, think of darkness as massive positive charged particles which are capable of neutralizing natural photons en masse, like aerogel they just suck the energy out of photons at much faster rate...
Let me help ya
https://twitter.com/Dan_Dillon_1/status/1179861283429990400
I have no idea what post you’re replying to, but tweets are not rules.