"As an action, you present your holy symbol, and a sphere of twilight emanates from you. The sphere is centered on you, has a 30-foot radius, and is filled with dim light. The sphere moves with you, and it lasts for 1 minute or until you are incapacitated or die."
I am trying to understand if the sphere is "always" filled with dim light, or if anyone burn a torch it would change to bright light? Do anyone know the answer and can share this knowledge with me?
I would rule it as such, otherwise the ability would be worthless in any situation other then total nonmagical darkness. Magical light could probably go through it depending on the spell, but anything mundane would certainly be rendered ineffective. Otherwise the ability of flight you gain while in dim light or darkness would be a bit mute if it could be turned off by arrowing a torch or something at the cleric.
My thoughts are the same, for instance it would be useless at day light. With that been said, I am not sure if the descrption make clear the way it works... And since in my table we like RAW, maybe the idea it's just to offer a little light on Darkness.
Btw, your comment brought another point, if it's "always" filled with dim light, how it interact with spells like darkness and daylight!?
My thoughts are the same, for instance it would be useless at day light. With that been said, I am not sure if the descrption make clear the way it works... And since in my table we like RAW, maybe the idea it's just to offer a little light on Darkness.
Btw, your comment brought another point, if it's "always" filled with dim light, how it interact with spells like darkness and daylight!?
So remember, spells and magical effects only do what they say they do. Nothing more or less. If you want to flavor it for thematic purposes cool, but as long as it doesn't change mechanical effects you're done.
Nothing in Twilight Sanctuary says it's ALWAYS filled with dim light, just that it fills the sphere with dim light. I would rule that the Daylight would just completely overpower it. Twilight Sanctuary would still be active of course, but since the sphere only emits a globe of dim light, with no identifiers or characteristics otherwise it would just be enveloped in daylight instead.
Darkness is an interesting proposition. Darkness is a 15 foot radius, Twilight Sanctuary is a 30 foot radius. Darkness very specifically states that if there is a light source created by a 2nd level spell or lower, it gets rid of it and dispels the magic. Twilight Sanctuary is not a spell. However, we have other caveats to Darkness. "A creature with darkvision can’t see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can’t illuminate it." Nowhere in Twilight Sanctuary does it say the light is magical, it states its "Soothing Twilight". I'd rule Darkness overpowers Twilight Sanctuary, personally.
I concur with your position regarding the interact with the spells. But, I still have the doubt about the "main" point of the topic.
"The sphere is centered on you, has a 30-foot radius, and is filled with dim light." /\ I am not sure how to interpret this /\
I mean, I can't see anything in the writing that clear explain the bold part. My point is, if a guy come to and say: A) If a place that is filled with dim light happen to be a place that have a bright light source (like a torch or sun light) it will be overcome by the bright light. or B) The sphere is filled with dim light, and there is no condition on it, so unless there is an interaction with a spell it will be a dim light place.
I would state both as correct, but in this case obviously both can't be.
I concur with your position regarding the interact with the spells. But, I still have the doubt about the "main" point of the topic.
"The sphere is centered on you, has a 30-foot radius, and is filled with dim light." /\ I am not sure how to interpret this /\
I mean, I can't see anything in the writing that clear explain the bold part. My point is, if a guy come to and say: A) If a place that is filled with dim light happen to be a place that have a bright light source (like a torch or sun light) it will be overcome by the bright light. or B) The sphere is filled with dim light, and there is no condition on it, so unless there is an interaction with a spell it will be a dim light place.
I would state both as correct, but in this case obviously both can't be.
Right. There’s nothing that says its always filled with only dim light, it just says it has dim light in it. So if there is a brighter source of light, it would supersede the dim light being provided. Same thing with magical darkness, it superseded.
So I guess what you’re driving at is the Twilight Clerics 6th level ability, which grants a fly speed in areas of Dim Light or Darkness. If a Twilight Cleric is flying around with their ability and somehow gets exposed to full light, they fall. I think what I, as a player, would challenge the DM on is it every single enemy spellcaster was just magically throwing daylight spells up instead of standard attacks/etc. Even the DM can metagame, right. Now if your character lets every single NPC know they can only fly in darkness and they know that like Vampires, light apparently is your weakness? Game on, you’ve let that cat out of the bag. Ditto with the sun, if your character is flying around and the sun hits the horizon and casts light on you, you fall. Bright light goes through your dim light sphere encompassing it with its own natural light(which your ability doesn’t stop) and you fall.
I wasn't going in there, my question was to understand the dynamic, if the ability turn 30ft radius on Dim Light or if it emanate Dim light up to 30ft radius. Apparently most of the responses endorse the idea that it just "emanate" dim light. To be honest I was already a little bit more inclined to this "option" too, but thanks very much to taking the time to answer me! (So no, you can't use your sphere during the day open doors to fly XD)
Now, about the 6th level ability you brought up, I disagree with you interpretation: You need darkness or dim light to "cast" the fly, but not to hold it. It's similar when you cast a spell that you can hold concentration on it, you need the range to cast, not to hold, unless the spell expressly say otherwise. (There is nothing in the ability that suggest you need darkness or dim light to keep it on)
I wasn't going in there, my question was to understand the dynamic, if the ability turn 30ft radius on Dim Light or if it emanate Dim light up to 30ft radius. Apparently most of the responses endorse the idea that it just "emanate" dim light. To be honest I was already a little bit more inclined to this "option" too, but thanks very much to taking the time to answer me! (So no, you can't use your sphere during the day open doors to fly XD)
Now, about the 6th level ability you brought up, I disagree with you interpretation: You need darkness or dim light to "cast" the fly, but not to hold it. It's similar when you cast a spell that you can hold concentration on it, you need the range to cast, not to hold, unless the spell expressly say otherwise. (There is nothing in the ability that suggest you need darkness or dim light to keep it on)
I, conversely, believe that because some twilight clerics’ abilities rely upon dim light it is intentional. You can make make the day twilight insomuch as you can make the night so.
Nowhere in Twilight Sanctuary does it say the light is magical
All Channel Divinities are magical.
Sure, the invocation of it is. That doesn't mean the thing it creates is. Look at the spell fabrication. Creates objects but it doesn't create magical objects.
What would the point of the ability be if it was just overridden by the ambient, natural lighting conditions? A twilight cleric is at their very best in dim light. When they most need to, they magically alter the existing non-magical lighting conditions to their benefit. Within the cleric’s conjured area non-magical darkness becomes dim light; non-magical sunlight becomes dim light. Magical darkness and light will interact and alter the lighting levels accordingly. That is the purpose of the ability. Your interpretation makes the cleric’s use of their precious channel divinity resource useless.
Within the cleric’s conjured area non-magical darkness becomes dim light; non-magical sunlight becomes dim light.
The problem is that that's not what the ability says. If you think it's useless and want to houserule it, then great! Houserule it! But the feature as written only does what it says it does, and that's not what it says it does.
Personally I would rule this as a magical sphere of dim light. Which is exactly what it is written.
If there is a light source in a magical sphere of dim light... DM would decide how to play that out, I'd say. I'd probably say that the magical light source's range of bright light is reduced by 1/2. Non-magical light sources inside the sphere no longer emit light. Magical and non-magical light sources outside the sphere do not penetrate the sphere. That would be my ruling.
Any creature with dark vision can see normally (but no color). Any creature without dark vision can see but has disadvantage on checks involving sight.
Within the cleric’s conjured area non-magical darkness becomes dim light; non-magical sunlight becomes dim light.
The problem is that that's not what the ability says. If you think it's useless and want to houserule it, then great! Houserule it! But the feature as written only does what it says it does, and that's not what it says it does.
What do you mean that’s not what the ability says? A sphere of dim light is conjured. Channel divinity effects are all magical. Since there is nothing specified, you see the general rules for lighting on how magical lighting effects interact with non-magical and other magical lighting. Nothing about this is a house rule in any way. It’s precisely the sort of extrapolation this game demands in abundance of any participant.
Uhhhhh, so if we are going to pretend that this channel divinity forces the area to be only dim light, why does the Darkness call out how it specifically interacts with magical and non magical light sources.
Things only do what they say they do. This channel divinity does not call out that is suppress sources of bright light so it does not do that. Meaning that the area CAN be lit with bright light IF there is a source of bright light that would affect it.
Within the cleric’s conjured area non-magical darkness becomes dim light; non-magical sunlight becomes dim light.
The problem is that that's not what the ability says. If you think it's useless and want to houserule it, then great! Houserule it! But the feature as written only does what it says it does, and that's not what it says it does.
What do you mean that’s not what the ability says? A sphere of dim light is conjured. Channel divinity effects are all magical. Since there is nothing specified, you see the general rules for lighting on how magical lighting effects interact with non-magical and other magical lighting. Nothing about this is a house rule in any way. It’s precisely the sort of extrapolation this game demands in abundance of any participant.
Can you cite "the general rules on how magical lighting effects interact with non-magical and other magical lighting"? I'm not able to find any such rules. Is it your contention that if you cast the light spell in broad daylight, the ring of space between 20 feet and 40 feet from the caster becomes darker?
That is what the discussion has been about. Some people are saying the ability isn't able to be used because the natural light overrides the dimlight created. Others are saying that the Dim light takes priority over other nonmagical light for one reason or another.
Because of the wording, either option is valid and like most things is something worth bringing up to your DM if it is a concern. I know how I would, and have, ruled it but it will vary DM to DM
"As an action, you present your holy symbol, and a sphere of twilight emanates from you. The sphere is centered on you, has a 30-foot radius, and is filled with dim light. The sphere moves with you, and it lasts for 1 minute or until you are incapacitated or die."
I am trying to understand if the sphere is "always" filled with dim light, or if anyone burn a torch it would change to bright light? Do anyone know the answer and can share this knowledge with me?
Thanks!
I would rule it as such, otherwise the ability would be worthless in any situation other then total nonmagical darkness. Magical light could probably go through it depending on the spell, but anything mundane would certainly be rendered ineffective. Otherwise the ability of flight you gain while in dim light or darkness would be a bit mute if it could be turned off by arrowing a torch or something at the cleric.
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My thoughts are the same, for instance it would be useless at day light. With that been said, I am not sure if the descrption make clear the way it works... And since in my table we like RAW, maybe the idea it's just to offer a little light on Darkness.
Btw, your comment brought another point, if it's "always" filled with dim light, how it interact with spells like darkness and daylight!?
So remember, spells and magical effects only do what they say they do. Nothing more or less. If you want to flavor it for thematic purposes cool, but as long as it doesn't change mechanical effects you're done.
Nothing in Twilight Sanctuary says it's ALWAYS filled with dim light, just that it fills the sphere with dim light. I would rule that the Daylight would just completely overpower it. Twilight Sanctuary would still be active of course, but since the sphere only emits a globe of dim light, with no identifiers or characteristics otherwise it would just be enveloped in daylight instead.
Darkness is an interesting proposition. Darkness is a 15 foot radius, Twilight Sanctuary is a 30 foot radius. Darkness very specifically states that if there is a light source created by a 2nd level spell or lower, it gets rid of it and dispels the magic. Twilight Sanctuary is not a spell. However, we have other caveats to Darkness. "A creature with darkvision can’t see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can’t illuminate it." Nowhere in Twilight Sanctuary does it say the light is magical, it states its "Soothing Twilight". I'd rule Darkness overpowers Twilight Sanctuary, personally.
I concur with your position regarding the interact with the spells. But, I still have the doubt about the "main" point of the topic.
"The sphere is centered on you, has a 30-foot radius, and is filled with dim light."
/\ I am not sure how to interpret this /\
I mean, I can't see anything in the writing that clear explain the bold part. My point is, if a guy come to and say:
A) If a place that is filled with dim light happen to be a place that have a bright light source (like a torch or sun light) it will be overcome by the bright light.
or
B) The sphere is filled with dim light, and there is no condition on it, so unless there is an interaction with a spell it will be a dim light place.
I would state both as correct, but in this case obviously both can't be.
A dim lantern also fills an area with dim light. Being filled with dim light in no way suppresses other lights that may be present.
Right. There’s nothing that says its always filled with only dim light, it just says it has dim light in it. So if there is a brighter source of light, it would supersede the dim light being provided. Same thing with magical darkness, it superseded.
So I guess what you’re driving at is the Twilight Clerics 6th level ability, which grants a fly speed in areas of Dim Light or Darkness. If a Twilight Cleric is flying around with their ability and somehow gets exposed to full light, they fall. I think what I, as a player, would challenge the DM on is it every single enemy spellcaster was just magically throwing daylight spells up instead of standard attacks/etc. Even the DM can metagame, right. Now if your character lets every single NPC know they can only fly in darkness and they know that like Vampires, light apparently is your weakness? Game on, you’ve let that cat out of the bag. Ditto with the sun, if your character is flying around and the sun hits the horizon and casts light on you, you fall. Bright light goes through your dim light sphere encompassing it with its own natural light(which your ability doesn’t stop) and you fall.
I wasn't going in there, my question was to understand the dynamic, if the ability turn 30ft radius on Dim Light or if it emanate Dim light up to 30ft radius.
Apparently most of the responses endorse the idea that it just "emanate" dim light. To be honest I was already a little bit more inclined to this "option" too, but thanks very much to taking the time to answer me!
(So no, you can't use your sphere during the day open doors to fly XD)
Now, about the 6th level ability you brought up, I disagree with you interpretation: You need darkness or dim light to "cast" the fly, but not to hold it. It's similar when you cast a spell that you can hold concentration on it, you need the range to cast, not to hold, unless the spell expressly say otherwise.
(There is nothing in the ability that suggest you need darkness or dim light to keep it on)
All Channel Divinities are magical.
I, conversely, believe that because some twilight clerics’ abilities rely upon dim light it is intentional. You can make make the day twilight insomuch as you can make the night so.
Sure, the invocation of it is. That doesn't mean the thing it creates is. Look at the spell fabrication. Creates objects but it doesn't create magical objects.
Channel Divinity states:
The effects of Channel Divinity are magical.
What would the point of the ability be if it was just overridden by the ambient, natural lighting conditions? A twilight cleric is at their very best in dim light. When they most need to, they magically alter the existing non-magical lighting conditions to their benefit. Within the cleric’s conjured area non-magical darkness becomes dim light; non-magical sunlight becomes dim light. Magical darkness and light will interact and alter the lighting levels accordingly. That is the purpose of the ability. Your interpretation makes the cleric’s use of their precious channel divinity resource useless.
The problem is that that's not what the ability says. If you think it's useless and want to houserule it, then great! Houserule it! But the feature as written only does what it says it does, and that's not what it says it does.
Personally I would rule this as a magical sphere of dim light. Which is exactly what it is written.
If there is a light source in a magical sphere of dim light... DM would decide how to play that out, I'd say. I'd probably say that the magical light source's range of bright light is reduced by 1/2. Non-magical light sources inside the sphere no longer emit light. Magical and non-magical light sources outside the sphere do not penetrate the sphere. That would be my ruling.
Any creature with dark vision can see normally (but no color). Any creature without dark vision can see but has disadvantage on checks involving sight.
What do you mean that’s not what the ability says? A sphere of dim light is conjured. Channel divinity effects are all magical. Since there is nothing specified, you see the general rules for lighting on how magical lighting effects interact with non-magical and other magical lighting. Nothing about this is a house rule in any way. It’s precisely the sort of extrapolation this game demands in abundance of any participant.
Uhhhhh, so if we are going to pretend that this channel divinity forces the area to be only dim light, why does the Darkness call out how it specifically interacts with magical and non magical light sources.
Things only do what they say they do. This channel divinity does not call out that is suppress sources of bright light so it does not do that. Meaning that the area CAN be lit with bright light IF there is a source of bright light that would affect it.
Can you cite "the general rules on how magical lighting effects interact with non-magical and other magical lighting"? I'm not able to find any such rules. Is it your contention that if you cast the light spell in broad daylight, the ring of space between 20 feet and 40 feet from the caster becomes darker?
What happens when a Twilight Cleric activates Twilight Sanctuary in an open environment full of natural daylight?
That is what the discussion has been about. Some people are saying the ability isn't able to be used because the natural light overrides the dimlight created. Others are saying that the Dim light takes priority over other nonmagical light for one reason or another.
Because of the wording, either option is valid and like most things is something worth bringing up to your DM if it is a concern. I know how I would, and have, ruled it but it will vary DM to DM
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."