Question. JC has addressed choosing the targets of multiple eldritch blasts (character level scaling cantrip) one by one as each blast from casting the cantrip is its own attack roll. What about the timing of using a bonus action to switch the target of hex mid attack rolls with eldritch blast? Is it similar to the rulings on shield master and two weapon fighting? Or is it something else, found somewhere else? I appreciate your help!
Normally you can't break up an action unless there's a specific rule which says you can.
The specific wording of Hex says "If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature." So in your specific case of your first question, the answer is no.
Normally you can't break up an action unless there's a specific rule which says you can.
The specific wording of Hex says "If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature." So in your specific case of your first question, the answer is no.
This.
[Edit]Not this. Right answer, wrong explanation. See comment 21 where I correct myself.
Normally you can't break up an action unless there's a specific rule which says you can.
The specific wording of Hex says "If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature." So in your specific case of your first question, the answer is no.
Say the warlock has had hex up for 3 rounds already, blasting away on the red dragon. On round 4 the warlock (level 17 so 4 blasts with the cantrip) casts eldritch blast again firing at the red dragon again. But the dragon dies after the first blast hits. The warlock can still make 3 more blasts, BUT, can the warlock move hex before those remaining 3, or must they wait until eldritch blast is fully complete?
No. You can't interrupt an action and continue it unless a rule or feature says you can.
In this case, nothing I know of lets you move hex mid eldritch blast. You just have to suffer the slight drop in dps for that action then move it after.
Say the warlock has had hex up for 3 rounds already, blasting away on the red dragon. On round 4 the warlock (level 17 so 4 blasts with the cantrip) casts eldritch blast again firing at the red dragon again. But the dragon dies after the first blast hits. The warlock can still make 3 more blasts, BUT, can the warlock move hex before those remaining 3, or must they wait until eldritch blast is fully complete?
No. You can't interrupt an action and continue it unless a rule or feature says you can.
In this case, nothing I know of lets you move hex mid eldritch blast. You just have to suffer the slight drop in dps for that action then move it after.
By "move it after" he, of course, means on a subsequent turn :-)
The key is that you can only move it on your turn at least one turn after the hexed creature reaches 0 hp. It doesn't even matter that you can't interrupt an Eldritch Blast. If the creature reached 0 hp on your turn - you can't even move it straight after the Eldritch Blast. You must wait until your following turn to move it.
I'm pretty sure the line about subsequent turn is referring to "turn after casting the spell" not "turn after target dies."
It only matters a little, since you won't likely be able to damage a creature before you next turn and you can move hex before attacking on your next turn.
I think having to wait a turn to move the hex to a new target makes a difference quite a bit starting at level 5, and makes even more of a difference at levels 11 and 17 as there is a more likely chance your damage output will be negatively effected.
No. You can't interrupt an action and continue it unless a rule or feature says you can.
In this case, nothing I know of lets you move hex mid eldritch blast. You just have to suffer the slight drop in dps for that action then move it after.
This is a bit off topic for the original question but could you cite the rule that states that you can't interrupt an action?
Shield and Counterspell both interrupt actions.
Bonus action timing specifically says that if you have a bonus action available then you can use it at any time in the turn. The rules for bonus actions do not say "any time in the turn except in the middle of another action" ... they say any time in the turn.
So a fighter could attack, move, cast healing word if also a cleric or use a bonus action to hide if also a rogue, then use their extra attack feature to make a second attack. In addition, if an opponent tried to counterspell the healing word then the fighter/caster could potentially cast counterspell in response - all of this while still performing the "attack" action.
Where does it say in the rule books that every action is considered atomic such that it supercedes the very specific rules on bonus action timing?
PH p189 "You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified" .. you choose when to take the bonus action and no limits are placed on the timing.
P.S. I just realized that casting a bonus action spell would prevent the fighter from casting counterspell due to the restrictions of multiple spells in the same turn when a spell is cast as a bonus action - but the rest of the example still holds.
If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature.
Reads to me as specifically requiring the target to hit 0 hp and then you can move it on a following turn.
But you're right it won't make a lot of difference.
I agree with Emmber here; the way it’s written is super clear that the turn is subsequent to the one in which the target drops to 0.
But also I agree with David42: there’s no rule that says you can’t take a bonus action in between the attacks of your Eldritch Blast. You can take bonus actions any time you want, unless the timing is specified, which it is for the moving of Hex: on a subsequent turn of yours, so if you drop the target to 0 with your first beam, you can’t move Hex until your next turn.
Bonus action timing specifically says that if you have a bonus action available then you can use it at any time in the turn. The rules for bonus actions do not say "any time in the turn except in the middle of another action" ... they say any time in the turn.
So a fighter could attack, move, cast healing word if also a cleric or use a bonus action to hide if also a rogue, then use their extra attack feature to make a second attack. In addition, if an opponent tried to counterspell the healing word then the fighter/caster could potentially cast counterspell in response - all of this while still performing the "attack" action.
Where does it say in the rule books that every action is considered atomic such that it supercedes the very specific rules on bonus action timing?
PH p189 "You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified" .. you choose when to take the bonus action and no limits are placed on the timing.
There's a difference between someone using their reaction to cast Counterspell, and pausing a spell mid-cast just to use a Bonus Action. Trying to use that as an example is a bit odd.
Now, if you want to argue that each ray from Eldritch Blast should be considered similar to Extra Attacks from the Attack option, and we have the precedence of allowing movement between attacks, therefore you should be able to move between EB beams, I could consider that to be a fair argument. Likewise, saying that you can if you can break up attacks with movement, you should be able to use your bonus action, that's also a fair argument, though highly debatable.
I know that Crawford disagrees with that stance, but thankfully his words are no longer considered official. You could not, in fact, have a Fighter that paused between his attacks to use Second Wind, or whatever. Officially for the longest time, you had to finish all your attacks before you could use your bonus action (or use it before attacking at all). Furthermore, you had to finish your attack before using something like Shield Master, which said "as part of your Attack Action."
Personally, I have no qualms with swapping Hex mid-eldritch blast. But I can see several strong arguments against it. In fact, I think they're the stronger arguments from a mechanical perspective. I just don't like it that way.
unless the timing is specified, which it is for the moving of Hex: on a subsequent turn of yours, so if you drop the target to 0 with your first beam, you can’t move Hex until your next turn.
Pretty sure that "on a subsequent turn" bit refers to on any turn after the initial cast of Hex. That's part of the problem with casual language, sometimes.
unless the timing is specified, which it is for the moving of Hex: on a subsequent turn of yours, so if you drop the target to 0 with your first beam, you can’t move Hex until your next turn.
Pretty sure that "on a subsequent turn" bit refers to on any turn after the initial cast of Hex. That's part of the problem with casual language, sometimes.
There's no reason at all to believe that. First of all, if that's what they meant, it's entirely unnecessary to say; you can't move Hex on the same turn you cast it, because you can only take one bonus action per turn. Second of all, it's a complete independent sentence (and even an entirely separate paragraph that stands on its own): "If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature."
The English language does actually have a general guideline for resolving ambiguities like this, and it's to prefer the referent that is nearer to the reference. "In the same sentence" is a lot nearer than "not even in the same paragraph."
Now, if you want to argue that each ray from Eldritch Blast should be considered similar to Extra Attacks from the Attack option, and we have the precedence of allowing movement between attacks, therefore you should be able to move between EB beams, I could consider that to be a fair argument. Likewise, saying that you can if you can break up attacks with movement, you should be able to use your bonus action, that's also a fair argument, though highly debatable.
I know that Crawford disagrees with that stance, but thankfully his words are no longer considered official. You could not, in fact, have a Fighter that paused between his attacks to use Second Wind, or whatever. Officially for the longest time, you had to finish all your attacks before you could use your bonus action (or use it before attacking at all). Furthermore, you had to finish your attack before using something like Shield Master, which said "as part of your Attack Action."
Eldritch Blast has a duration of instantaneous, so all the bolts shoot out your finger/hand in quick succession. No time to move.
That rule does not occur elsewhere, such as in the casting spells section. Indeed the general rule is "You can break up your movement on your turn, using some of your speed before and after your action."
P.S. When did the status of Crawford's words change? The SA still refers to them being advice, and are sometimes a preview of rulesing that appear in the SA.
No. You can't interrupt an action and continue it unless a rule or feature says you can.
In this case, nothing I know of lets you move hex mid eldritch blast. You just have to suffer the slight drop in dps for that action then move it after.
This is a bit off topic for the original question but could you cite the rule that states that you can't interrupt an action?
Shield and Counterspell both interrupt actions.
Bonus action timing specifically says that if you have a bonus action available then you can use it at any time in the turn. The rules for bonus actions do not say "any time in the turn except in the middle of another action" ... they say any time in the turn.
[Snip]
Where does it say in the rule books that every action is considered autonomic such that it supercedes the very specific rules on bonus action timing?
PH p189 "You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified" .. you choose when to take the bonus action and no limits are placed on the timing.
You know what you are completely right. There is no rule that says you can't break up an action. I just agreed with the first thing that sounded right. That is my bad, I'm usually more careful. (Also the rule on bonus action timing is general, not specific. A bonus action that says when it can be used, that is specific).
So the real reason you can't interrupt eldritch blast is because it is instantaneous. After it has successfully been cast, it will get its full effect before you have time to do anything else. Though any features or reactions that trigger from the beam hitting still happens at that time (specific timing beats general timing).
Now that it’s been pointed out to me, the “on a subsequent turn” part is crystal clear in my mind that the bonus action is allowed only on a turn after the targeted creature is dropped to zero hit points.
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Question. JC has addressed choosing the targets of multiple eldritch blasts (character level scaling cantrip) one by one as each blast from casting the cantrip is its own attack roll. What about the timing of using a bonus action to switch the target of hex mid attack rolls with eldritch blast? Is it similar to the rulings on shield master and two weapon fighting? Or is it something else, found somewhere else? I appreciate your help!
Normally you can't break up an action unless there's a specific rule which says you can.
The specific wording of Hex says "If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature." So in your specific case of your first question, the answer is no.
This.
[Edit]Not this. Right answer, wrong explanation. See comment 21 where I correct myself.
Great!
How about on, say, turn 4, well after the turn the spell was originally cast?
So you are asking if you can use a bonus action to interrupt eldritch blast 4 turns after casting hex as opposed to 1 turn after casting hex?
No. Literally nothing relevant to Farling's answer has been changed:
No. You can't interrupt an action and continue it unless a rule or feature says you can.
In this case, nothing I know of lets you move hex mid eldritch blast. You just have to suffer the slight drop in dps for that action then move it after.
That is amazing.
Thanks!
By "move it after" he, of course, means on a subsequent turn :-)
The key is that you can only move it on your turn at least one turn after the hexed creature reaches 0 hp. It doesn't even matter that you can't interrupt an Eldritch Blast. If the creature reached 0 hp on your turn - you can't even move it straight after the Eldritch Blast. You must wait until your following turn to move it.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
I'm pretty sure the line about subsequent turn is referring to "turn after casting the spell" not "turn after target dies."
It only matters a little, since you won't likely be able to damage a creature before you next turn and you can move hex before attacking on your next turn.
I don't know... That line:
Reads to me as specifically requiring the target to hit 0 hp and then you can move it on a following turn.
But you're right it won't make a lot of difference.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
I think having to wait a turn to move the hex to a new target makes a difference quite a bit starting at level 5, and makes even more of a difference at levels 11 and 17 as there is a more likely chance your damage output will be negatively effected.
This is a bit off topic for the original question but could you cite the rule that states that you can't interrupt an action?
Shield and Counterspell both interrupt actions.
Bonus action timing specifically says that if you have a bonus action available then you can use it at any time in the turn. The rules for bonus actions do not say "any time in the turn except in the middle of another action" ... they say any time in the turn.
So a fighter could attack, move, cast healing word if also a cleric or use a bonus action to hide if also a rogue, then use their extra attack feature to make a second attack.
In addition, if an opponent tried to counterspell the healing word then the fighter/caster could potentially cast counterspell in response- all of this while still performing the "attack" action.Where does it say in the rule books that every action is considered atomic such that it supercedes the very specific rules on bonus action timing?
PH p189 "You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified" .. you choose when to take the bonus action and no limits are placed on the timing.
P.S. I just realized that casting a bonus action spell would prevent the fighter from casting counterspell due to the restrictions of multiple spells in the same turn when a spell is cast as a bonus action - but the rest of the example still holds.
I agree with Emmber here; the way it’s written is super clear that the turn is subsequent to the one in which the target drops to 0.
But also I agree with David42: there’s no rule that says you can’t take a bonus action in between the attacks of your Eldritch Blast. You can take bonus actions any time you want, unless the timing is specified, which it is for the moving of Hex: on a subsequent turn of yours, so if you drop the target to 0 with your first beam, you can’t move Hex until your next turn.
There's a difference between someone using their reaction to cast Counterspell, and pausing a spell mid-cast just to use a Bonus Action. Trying to use that as an example is a bit odd.
Now, if you want to argue that each ray from Eldritch Blast should be considered similar to Extra Attacks from the Attack option, and we have the precedence of allowing movement between attacks, therefore you should be able to move between EB beams, I could consider that to be a fair argument. Likewise, saying that you can if you can break up attacks with movement, you should be able to use your bonus action, that's also a fair argument, though highly debatable.
I know that Crawford disagrees with that stance, but thankfully his words are no longer considered official. You could not, in fact, have a Fighter that paused between his attacks to use Second Wind, or whatever. Officially for the longest time, you had to finish all your attacks before you could use your bonus action (or use it before attacking at all). Furthermore, you had to finish your attack before using something like Shield Master, which said "as part of your Attack Action."
Personally, I have no qualms with swapping Hex mid-eldritch blast. But I can see several strong arguments against it. In fact, I think they're the stronger arguments from a mechanical perspective. I just don't like it that way.
Pretty sure that "on a subsequent turn" bit refers to on any turn after the initial cast of Hex. That's part of the problem with casual language, sometimes.
There's no reason at all to believe that. First of all, if that's what they meant, it's entirely unnecessary to say; you can't move Hex on the same turn you cast it, because you can only take one bonus action per turn. Second of all, it's a complete independent sentence (and even an entirely separate paragraph that stands on its own): "If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature."
The English language does actually have a general guideline for resolving ambiguities like this, and it's to prefer the referent that is nearer to the reference. "In the same sentence" is a lot nearer than "not even in the same paragraph."
Agree to disagree, then.
Eldritch Blast has a duration of instantaneous, so all the bolts shoot out your finger/hand in quick succession. No time to move.
There is a specific rule that says that you can move between attacks, see "Moving Between Attacks" in the combat section of the rules at https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#MovingBetweenAttacks
That rule does not occur elsewhere, such as in the casting spells section. Indeed the general rule is "You can break up your movement on your turn, using some of your speed before and after your action."
P.S. When did the status of Crawford's words change? The SA still refers to them being advice, and are sometimes a preview of rulesing that appear in the SA.
You know what you are completely right. There is no rule that says you can't break up an action. I just agreed with the first thing that sounded right. That is my bad, I'm usually more careful. (Also the rule on bonus action timing is general, not specific. A bonus action that says when it can be used, that is specific).
So the real reason you can't interrupt eldritch blast is because it is instantaneous. After it has successfully been cast, it will get its full effect before you have time to do anything else. Though any features or reactions that trigger from the beam hitting still happens at that time (specific timing beats general timing).
Now that it’s been pointed out to me, the “on a subsequent turn” part is crystal clear in my mind that the bonus action is allowed only on a turn after the targeted creature is dropped to zero hit points.