That is the problem, demiplane works in any plane and points to the same demiplane, so you can use it for plane travelling if you allow Grimus's views.
But since its only ever from a plane of existance to a demiplane then you would have to cast Demiplane twice...being an 8th level spell you would have to wait a while (Long rest at least) to travel.
Vs Gate you are instantly there and can move larger things through the hole you make.
Its 8th vs 9th level spell so that seems like an appropriate trade off.
That is the problem, demiplane works in any plane and points to the same demiplane, so you can use it for plane travelling if you allow Grimus's views.
That is the problem, demiplane works in any plane and points to the same demiplane, so you can use it for plane travelling if you allow Grimus's views.
Exactly.
You would have to use 2 8th level spells to get the same effect so that feels like an appropriate trade.
That is the problem, demiplane works in any plane and points to the same demiplane, so you can use it for plane travelling if you allow Grimus's views.
But since its only ever from a plane of existance to a demiplane then you would have to cast Demiplane twice...being an 8th level spell you would have to wait a while (Long rest at least) to travel.
Vs Gate you are instantly there and can move larger things through the hole you make.
Its 8th vs 9th level spell so that seems like an appropriate trade off.
Well, my point wasn't really that it's a balance problem, if used that way. I don't like it, and wouldn't run my games that way, but that's personal preference. (I'd probably allow re-opening the same door, to the same spot, a short enough time after it closed, but that'd take multiple spellcasters, or srcolls or somesuch.) My point was that that couldn't have been the intent, since it has interactions that are well outside the scope of the spell, aren't addressed anywhere in the rules, and in fact require explicit house rules, not merely interpretations of actual rules. I'd point to the fact that the spell isn't tagged with "Teleportation" here in DDB, but I'm pretty sure that's information added by DDB, not WotC.
While far from ideal, one option is to have yourself banished from the demiplane, which will send you back to the Material Plane, where you would be incapacitated for 1 minute. Now, normally you wouldn't be able to cast Banishment on yourself, but you could use a Shield Guardian to do so, as it can store a 4th level spell.
That is the problem, demiplane works in any plane and points to the same demiplane, so you can use it for plane travelling if you allow Grimus's views.
But since its only ever from a plane of existance to a demiplane then you would have to cast Demiplane twice...being an 8th level spell you would have to wait a while (Long rest at least) to travel.
Vs Gate you are instantly there and can move larger things through the hole you make.
Its 8th vs 9th level spell so that seems like an appropriate trade off.
Well, my point wasn't really that it's a balance problem, if used that way. I don't like it, and wouldn't run my games that way, but that's personal preference. (I'd probably allow re-opening the same door, to the same spot, a short enough time after it closed, but that'd take multiple spellcasters, or srcolls or somesuch.) My point was that that couldn't have been the intent, since it has interactions that are well outside the scope of the spell, aren't addressed anywhere in the rules, and in fact require explicit house rules, not merely interpretations of actual rules. I'd point to the fact that the spell isn't tagged with "Teleportation" here in DDB, but I'm pretty sure that's information added by DDB, not WotC.
Thats fair too. Its a weird work around but require several things to work (plane shift to get to another plane then cast demiplane from there) to even get to work which the DM would need to sign off on before of course.
My major thought that being trapped in demiplanes forever is pretty stupid...especially for a spellcaster capable of casting 8th level spells. At 8th level spells you are able to cast simulacrum so you could just send them in I guess. Overall its a pretty dumb idea to be "trapped" in demiplanes forever IMO.
While far from ideal, one option is to have yourself banished from the demiplane, which will send you back to the Material Plane, where you would be incapacitated for 1 minute. Now, normally you wouldn't be able to cast Banishment on yourself, but you could use a Shield Guardian to do so, as it can store a 4th level spell.
Thats a cool idea actually...You might make the save though! lol
But also where would you end up back on prime material?
Thats a cool idea actually...You might make the save though! lol
But also where would you end up back on prime material?
I tend to rule that players can always choose to fail a saving throw. Though, even if you do save, you can always cast it again. There is no cooldown to worry about other than the availability of 4th level slots.
Banishment doesn't specify where on the homeplane a creature would appear, but I think the practical answer is "somewhere safe, but unpredictable". Otherwise, there is a very high probability of a creature dying due to environmental hazards. There are RAW work arounds for this as well, such as using Contingency, but at this point, the DM should probably just do some handwaving for the sake of gameplay.
My major thought that being trapped in demiplanes forever is pretty stupid...especially for a spellcaster capable of casting 8th level spells. At 8th level spells you are able to cast simulacrum so you could just send them in I guess. Overall its a pretty dumb idea to be "trapped" in demiplanes forever IMO.
Yeah, I agree. It'd probably be better if the caster were ejected if inside when the door closes, ending up at the spot where the door was, prone. It's fine, thematic, and useful to have other creatures trapped in the demiplane when the door closes, but not the caster.
Thats a cool idea actually...You might make the save though! lol
But also where would you end up back on prime material?
I tend to rule that players can always choose to fail a saving throw. Though, even if you do save, you can always cast it again. There is no cooldown to worry about other than the availability of 4th level slots.
Banishment doesn't specify where on the homeplane a creature would appear, but I think the practical answer is "somewhere safe, but unpredictable". Otherwise, there is a very high probability of a creature dying due to environmental hazards. There are RAW work arounds for this as well, such as using Contingency, but at this point, the DM should probably just do some handwaving for the sake of gameplay.
Thats a cool way to plan for it actually! I like it.
My major thought that being trapped in demiplanes forever is pretty stupid...especially for a spellcaster capable of casting 8th level spells. At 8th level spells you are able to cast simulacrum so you could just send them in I guess. Overall its a pretty dumb idea to be "trapped" in demiplanes forever IMO.
Yeah, I agree. It'd probably be better if the caster were ejected if inside when the door closes, ending up at the spot where the door was, prone. It's fine, thematic, and useful to have other creatures trapped in the demiplane when the door closes, but not the caster.
Thats a cool idea actually...You might make the save though! lol
But also where would you end up back on prime material?
I tend to rule that players can always choose to fail a saving throw. Though, even if you do save, you can always cast it again. There is no cooldown to worry about other than the availability of 4th level slots.
Banishment doesn't specify where on the homeplane a creature would appear, but I think the practical answer is "somewhere safe, but unpredictable". Otherwise, there is a very high probability of a creature dying due to environmental hazards. There are RAW work arounds for this as well, such as using Contingency, but at this point, the DM should probably just do some handwaving for the sake of gameplay.
You're already handwaving self-banishing, so handwaving the location shouldn't be a problem :D
You could maybe have then roll percentile die to see where they end up with a really good chance they go somewhere they know and a small chance to end up in a random location in the world just as a gamble.
You could maybe have then roll percentile die to see where they end up with a really good chance they go somewhere they know and a small chance to end up in a random location in the world just as a gamble.
There are enough work arounds once you're on the Material Plane that I wouldn't mess with the mechanics of Banishment. If the players get special treatment, then it opens a can of worm for what happens to banished enemies.
Banishment is really just a low-level safeguard against being trapped. Ideally, the player will eventually solve the problem with a magic item, such as using a Well of Many Worlds to create a permanent two-way lobby. Though, how they find such a powerful permanent solution is their own problem.
You could maybe have then roll percentile die to see where they end up with a really good chance they go somewhere they know and a small chance to end up in a random location in the world just as a gamble.
There are enough work arounds once you're on the Material Plane that I wouldn't mess with the mechanics of Banishment. If the players get special treatment, then it opens a can of worm for what happens to banished enemies.
I'd personally be OK for the creator of the demiplane casting the spell again to re-open the door back to the specific point where they entered it, if they have not yet left it. You're not replicating any teleport spells, or using demiplane like a transdimensional travel hub. The moment you leave that demiplane to somewhere else that connection is gone and so you can't just re-open the doorway.
- You as the caster won't be trapped unless you do something stupid like hopping to even more demiplanes or dimensions. If you want to leave with just casting demiplane again, you must go back to where you were first before you go plane-hopping elsewhere.
- Opens a little bit more convenience.
- Isn't OP and still requires two castings of an 8th level spell. I mean by that point you've got 9th level spell slots, so it's not any different than just plane-shifting/gating out anyway. So, it's not some massive benefit.
- Can still be used for traps if needed (a deliberately designed intent of the spell - hence why the trapping line exists).
Not the RAW, but an agreeable houserule.
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I'd personally be OK for the creator of the demiplane casting the spell again to re-open the door back to the specific point where they entered it, if they have not yet left it. You're not replicating any teleport spells, or using demiplane like a transdimensional travel hub. The moment you leave that demiplane to somewhere else that connection is gone and so you can't just re-open the doorway.
- You as the caster won't be trapped unless you do something stupid like hopping to even more demiplanes or dimensions. If you want to leave with just casting demiplane again, you must go back to where you were first before you go plane-hopping elsewhere.
- Opens a little bit more convenience.
- Isn't OP and still requires two castings of an 8th level spell. I mean by that point you've got 9th level spell slots, so it's not any different than just plane-shifting/gating out anyway. So, it's not some massive benefit.
- Can still be used for traps if needed (a deliberately designed intent of the spell - hence why the trapping line exists).
Not the RAW, but an agreeable houserule.
That seems like a reasonable approach to me.
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Gate works between different planes. Pretty sure Grimus was not suggesting demiplane do that.
I would still have demiplane require a plane shifting spell like gate to escape from, but I don't think it is overpowered to house rule it otherwise.
But since its only ever from a plane of existance to a demiplane then you would have to cast Demiplane twice...being an 8th level spell you would have to wait a while (Long rest at least) to travel.
Vs Gate you are instantly there and can move larger things through the hole you make.
Its 8th vs 9th level spell so that seems like an appropriate trade off.
Exactly.
You would have to use 2 8th level spells to get the same effect so that feels like an appropriate trade.
Well, my point wasn't really that it's a balance problem, if used that way. I don't like it, and wouldn't run my games that way, but that's personal preference. (I'd probably allow re-opening the same door, to the same spot, a short enough time after it closed, but that'd take multiple spellcasters, or srcolls or somesuch.) My point was that that couldn't have been the intent, since it has interactions that are well outside the scope of the spell, aren't addressed anywhere in the rules, and in fact require explicit house rules, not merely interpretations of actual rules. I'd point to the fact that the spell isn't tagged with "Teleportation" here in DDB, but I'm pretty sure that's information added by DDB, not WotC.
While far from ideal, one option is to have yourself banished from the demiplane, which will send you back to the Material Plane, where you would be incapacitated for 1 minute. Now, normally you wouldn't be able to cast Banishment on yourself, but you could use a Shield Guardian to do so, as it can store a 4th level spell.
Thats fair too. Its a weird work around but require several things to work (plane shift to get to another plane then cast demiplane from there) to even get to work which the DM would need to sign off on before of course.
My major thought that being trapped in demiplanes forever is pretty stupid...especially for a spellcaster capable of casting 8th level spells. At 8th level spells you are able to cast simulacrum so you could just send them in I guess. Overall its a pretty dumb idea to be "trapped" in demiplanes forever IMO.
Thats a cool idea actually...You might make the save though! lol
But also where would you end up back on prime material?
Okay, guys, quit it. It's getting circular and self-contradictory.
I tend to rule that players can always choose to fail a saving throw. Though, even if you do save, you can always cast it again. There is no cooldown to worry about other than the availability of 4th level slots.
Banishment doesn't specify where on the homeplane a creature would appear, but I think the practical answer is "somewhere safe, but unpredictable". Otherwise, there is a very high probability of a creature dying due to environmental hazards. There are RAW work arounds for this as well, such as using Contingency, but at this point, the DM should probably just do some handwaving for the sake of gameplay.
Yeah, I agree. It'd probably be better if the caster were ejected if inside when the door closes, ending up at the spot where the door was, prone. It's fine, thematic, and useful to have other creatures trapped in the demiplane when the door closes, but not the caster.
Thats a cool way to plan for it actually! I like it.
I like that too.
You're already handwaving self-banishing, so handwaving the location shouldn't be a problem :D
There is no handwaving of self-banishing. Using a Shield Guardian as a gatekeeper is a perfectly RAW solution.
You could maybe have then roll percentile die to see where they end up with a really good chance they go somewhere they know and a small chance to end up in a random location in the world just as a gamble.
There are enough work arounds once you're on the Material Plane that I wouldn't mess with the mechanics of Banishment. If the players get special treatment, then it opens a can of worm for what happens to banished enemies.
Banishment is really just a low-level safeguard against being trapped. Ideally, the player will eventually solve the problem with a magic item, such as using a Well of Many Worlds to create a permanent two-way lobby. Though, how they find such a powerful permanent solution is their own problem.
Fair enough.
I'd personally be OK for the creator of the demiplane casting the spell again to re-open the door back to the specific point where they entered it, if they have not yet left it. You're not replicating any teleport spells, or using demiplane like a transdimensional travel hub. The moment you leave that demiplane to somewhere else that connection is gone and so you can't just re-open the doorway.
- You as the caster won't be trapped unless you do something stupid like hopping to even more demiplanes or dimensions. If you want to leave with just casting demiplane again, you must go back to where you were first before you go plane-hopping elsewhere.
- Opens a little bit more convenience.
- Isn't OP and still requires two castings of an 8th level spell. I mean by that point you've got 9th level spell slots, so it's not any different than just plane-shifting/gating out anyway. So, it's not some massive benefit.
- Can still be used for traps if needed (a deliberately designed intent of the spell - hence why the trapping line exists).
Not the RAW, but an agreeable houserule.
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That seems like a reasonable approach to me.