Is there any information about dragon scales regarding how they are structured and the materials that they're made from? Are there any solid distinctions between dragon-type scales and the different types of reptilian scales like those of lizards and crocodiles?
There's actually not a lot of explicit determinations or definitive statements of dragon anatomy, scales included in 5e (even reproduction gives you a table of possibilities as opposed to a specific way dragons reproduce).
That said, I would recognize that the type of creature a dragon is rules wise is "dragon" while lizards and crocodiles are "beasts." In other words, dragons are of a different order of life form from the mundane beings so while they all have "scales" that may be resembling each other, mechanics indicate at some point the distinction ends. Dragons are considered being both mortal being and "magic" (in Fizban's it's implied magic literally rubs off from them onto objects in their hoards). So yes, I'd say there's a clear distinction between dragon scales and those found among conventional reptiles. If you really want to double down on dragons having a relationship with reptiles, you may have some sort of chain of being from dragons on one side and reptiles on the other and things like wyverns, dragonelles and dragon turtles on a spectrum between them.
Dragon scales appearances seem derivative of the dragon from which they come. Metallic dragon scales look like their respective metals, chromatic dragon scales seem to have a more hide like quality with a reptilian color of the dragon type, and gemstone dragon scales (yes, they have scales) tend to resemble the gem type. However, the properties across type seem to be a sort of hybrid "metal hyde" that would probably require specialized knowledge to use as say a crafting material (no mere smith or leather worker is going to have know how at first go). I don't think it's in 5e proper, but I've read rules for gem stone dragons who claim, like the dragons themselves, that the gemstone dragon scales have strong psionic attunement and maybe even reality distorting affecting properities.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
By a metal hide hybrid, do you mean that they are a single material with properties of scale/skin and metal, or is it something more like a fish scale, with one layer like metal and another layer that's more like hide? Or is it something else?
Again, this is just my point of view and largely my imagination, though I'd say it's extrapolated from the MM and Fizban's, but also some third party stuff on dragons and exotic crafting materials like dragon hide, but if I were to go deep on Dragonhide/scales, I'd say scales are one single material with metal and hide like properties in terms of strength, with some suppleness and workability.
But that's just me, but also think it's more practical. If I want my party to harvest a dragon, like maybe I'd insist they'd need pectoral scales to fashion armor or shields with, while other scales could be used for boots and girdles and the like. If you want you're table to have to have an additional layer, so to speak, of working with harvesting dragon scales, you're free to do so. And that wasn't a dig, there's certainly game implications you could come up with having different "types" of scales like your fish example. But for me, as a DM when I think over these questions, especially with magical creatures, I tend to think over what game purpose is served by the answer. Crafting and material rules in 5e's official books is pretty scant (though there are some 3rd party books that give you things to think about), so when it comes to details like this I tend to use a broad brush, and instead go granular on say what sort of things hyou could do with "dragon scale" as a magical component, a commodity, or a symbol of power.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I would imagine that dragon scales are primarily a chitinous matrix latticed with special mineral deposits and infused with Draconic magic. The gem dragons obviously would have their respective gemstones latticed throughout the scales, and the metallic dragons would just as obviously have their respective metals latticed throughout their scales. The chromatic dragons likely have other minerals that lend their pigmentation to the scales, perhaps iron oxide (rust) for red dragons, maybe copper oxide (patina) for green dragons, or silver oxide (tarnish) for black.
Dragon scale armor is a thing. There’s lots of creatures with tough hides or scales, but dragons are one of the only ones that has an official item made from them. Not sure if that’s what your asking, though.
Dragon scale armor is a thing. There’s lots of creatures with tough hides or scales, but dragons are one of the only ones that has an official item made from them. Not sure if that’s what your asking, though.
Don’t forget that dragon scale mail has also been enchanted, making it a magic item though.
Dragon scale armor is a thing. There’s lots of creatures with tough hides or scales, but dragons are one of the only ones that has an official item made from them. Not sure if that’s what your asking, though.
Don’t forget that dragon scale mail has also been enchanted, making it a magic item though.
Absolutely. Just it’s about the only thing called out for the source of the material. Along with adamantine and a couple other things. I mean there’s lots of things with hard scales and thick skin, but dragon scale gets special billing.
Dragon scale armor is a thing. There’s lots of creatures with tough hides or scales, but dragons are one of the only ones that has an official item made from them. Not sure if that’s what your asking, though.
Don’t forget that dragon scale mail has also been enchanted, making it a magic item though.
Well, I don't know if it's been enchanted post fabrication. It's a basic rules item, but I think the magical properties are a result of the dragon, and its scaled, being inherently magical. At least that's the logic I noted and have run with in Fizban's. In other words, the dragon scales would be harvested and as long as the fabrictators of the armor know what they're doing, or maybe not even that, the dragon scale armor has those traits.
Dragon scale armor is a thing. There’s lots of creatures with tough hides or scales, but dragons are one of the only ones that has an official item made from them. Not sure if that’s what your asking, though.
Don’t forget that dragon scale mail has also been enchanted, making it a magic item though.
Absolutely. Just it’s about the only thing called out for the source of the material. Along with adamantine and a couple other things. I mean there’s lots of things with hard scales and thick skin, but dragon scale gets special billing.
Dragon scale armor is a thing. There’s lots of creatures with tough hides or scales, but dragons are one of the only ones that has an official item made from them. Not sure if that’s what your asking, though.
Don’t forget that dragon scale mail has also been enchanted, making it a magic item though.
Well, I don't know if it's been enchanted post fabrication. It's a basic rules item, but I think the magical properties are a result of the dragon, and its scaled, being inherently magical. At least that's the logic I noted and have run with in Fizban's. In other words, the dragon scales would be harvested and as long as the fabrictators of the armor know what they're doing, or maybe not even that, the dragon scale armor has those traits.
I haven’t read Fizbain’s so I can’t speak to that, but I always understood it to have been enchanted post fabrication.
Dragon scale armor is a thing. There’s lots of creatures with tough hides or scales, but dragons are one of the only ones that has an official item made from them. Not sure if that’s what your asking, though.
Don’t forget that dragon scale mail has also been enchanted, making it a magic item though.
Absolutely. Just it’s about the only thing called out for the source of the material. Along with adamantine and a couple other things. I mean there’s lots of things with hard scales and thick skin, but dragon scale gets special billing.
Dragon scale armor is a thing. There’s lots of creatures with tough hides or scales, but dragons are one of the only ones that has an official item made from them. Not sure if that’s what your asking, though.
Don’t forget that dragon scale mail has also been enchanted, making it a magic item though.
Well, I don't know if it's been enchanted post fabrication. It's a basic rules item, but I think the magical properties are a result of the dragon, and its scaled, being inherently magical. At least that's the logic I noted and have run with in Fizban's. In other words, the dragon scales would be harvested and as long as the fabrictators of the armor know what they're doing, or maybe not even that, the dragon scale armor has those traits.
I haven’t read Fizbain’s so I can’t speak to that, but I always understood it to have been enchanted post fabrication.
Kinda like the thread, dragons and the specifics of their anatomy are a pretty much have it your way thing. But I like Fizban's take on the innate magicalness of dragons. As I mentioned elsewhere in thread, Fizban presents a scheme where particularly treasured items in a dragon's hoard may become magical or more magical as the dragon's magic almost literally rubs off on it (and there's a neat table for hoard magic items). So sure you could have dragon hide being a more mundane material where it's special enough to carry enchangments given to it during its manufacture, or you could have the dragon hide itself being inherently magical and can be made manifest if the hide is crafted with care ... which is sorta a six of one half a dozen of the other split. I'd only say I think Fizban's also suggests dragons gifting PCs they patronize with things like scales and suggest the magical properties such scales may hold.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
There is very little of an official nature on the details of draconic biology. Fizban’s and the earlier Draconomicons are the primary sources and they don’t go into that much detail. You are pretty much free to create on your own. I would think that there are 2 different pieces to the armor value of the dragon scale - 1) like crocodilian “scales” they are probably containing a mineralized core of some sort perhaps more metallic than minerallic. 2) the dragon’s innate magical ness suffuses them rendering them more effective as armor than a reptilian scale.
There is quite a lot of talk and clamor over the years about harvesting dragons. Many home brews have been created, and WoTC leaves the door wide open for player input, without offering too much lore or information. I give props to any homebrew that can balance risk and reward while keeping things consistent.
You can look up digital versions of the Draconomicon and other books, but I think the best WoTC has to offer on this subject would be in Dragon Magazine if you are looking for something slightly more official. Just remember a lot of this stuff is archived on the web for reference purposes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Is there any information about dragon scales regarding how they are structured and the materials that they're made from? Are there any solid distinctions between dragon-type scales and the different types of reptilian scales like those of lizards and crocodiles?
There's actually not a lot of explicit determinations or definitive statements of dragon anatomy, scales included in 5e (even reproduction gives you a table of possibilities as opposed to a specific way dragons reproduce).
That said, I would recognize that the type of creature a dragon is rules wise is "dragon" while lizards and crocodiles are "beasts." In other words, dragons are of a different order of life form from the mundane beings so while they all have "scales" that may be resembling each other, mechanics indicate at some point the distinction ends. Dragons are considered being both mortal being and "magic" (in Fizban's it's implied magic literally rubs off from them onto objects in their hoards). So yes, I'd say there's a clear distinction between dragon scales and those found among conventional reptiles. If you really want to double down on dragons having a relationship with reptiles, you may have some sort of chain of being from dragons on one side and reptiles on the other and things like wyverns, dragonelles and dragon turtles on a spectrum between them.
Dragon scales appearances seem derivative of the dragon from which they come. Metallic dragon scales look like their respective metals, chromatic dragon scales seem to have a more hide like quality with a reptilian color of the dragon type, and gemstone dragon scales (yes, they have scales) tend to resemble the gem type. However, the properties across type seem to be a sort of hybrid "metal hyde" that would probably require specialized knowledge to use as say a crafting material (no mere smith or leather worker is going to have know how at first go). I don't think it's in 5e proper, but I've read rules for gem stone dragons who claim, like the dragons themselves, that the gemstone dragon scales have strong psionic attunement and maybe even reality distorting affecting properities.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
By a metal hide hybrid, do you mean that they are a single material with properties of scale/skin and metal, or is it something more like a fish scale, with one layer like metal and another layer that's more like hide? Or is it something else?
Again, this is just my point of view and largely my imagination, though I'd say it's extrapolated from the MM and Fizban's, but also some third party stuff on dragons and exotic crafting materials like dragon hide, but if I were to go deep on Dragonhide/scales, I'd say scales are one single material with metal and hide like properties in terms of strength, with some suppleness and workability.
But that's just me, but also think it's more practical. If I want my party to harvest a dragon, like maybe I'd insist they'd need pectoral scales to fashion armor or shields with, while other scales could be used for boots and girdles and the like. If you want you're table to have to have an additional layer, so to speak, of working with harvesting dragon scales, you're free to do so. And that wasn't a dig, there's certainly game implications you could come up with having different "types" of scales like your fish example. But for me, as a DM when I think over these questions, especially with magical creatures, I tend to think over what game purpose is served by the answer. Crafting and material rules in 5e's official books is pretty scant (though there are some 3rd party books that give you things to think about), so when it comes to details like this I tend to use a broad brush, and instead go granular on say what sort of things hyou could do with "dragon scale" as a magical component, a commodity, or a symbol of power.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I would imagine that dragon scales are primarily a chitinous matrix latticed with special mineral deposits and infused with Draconic magic. The gem dragons obviously would have their respective gemstones latticed throughout the scales, and the metallic dragons would just as obviously have their respective metals latticed throughout their scales. The chromatic dragons likely have other minerals that lend their pigmentation to the scales, perhaps iron oxide (rust) for red dragons, maybe copper oxide (patina) for green dragons, or silver oxide (tarnish) for black.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Dragon scale armor is a thing. There’s lots of creatures with tough hides or scales, but dragons are one of the only ones that has an official item made from them. Not sure if that’s what your asking, though.
Don’t forget that dragon scale mail has also been enchanted, making it a magic item though.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Absolutely.
Just it’s about the only thing called out for the source of the material. Along with adamantine and a couple other things.
I mean there’s lots of things with hard scales and thick skin, but dragon scale gets special billing.
Well, I don't know if it's been enchanted post fabrication. It's a basic rules item, but I think the magical properties are a result of the dragon, and its scaled, being inherently magical. At least that's the logic I noted and have run with in Fizban's. In other words, the dragon scales would be harvested and as long as the fabrictators of the armor know what they're doing, or maybe not even that, the dragon scale armor has those traits.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Right, like boots of elvenkind and dwarven plate. 🤣😂🤣
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I haven’t read Fizbain’s so I can’t speak to that, but I always understood it to have been enchanted post fabrication.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
You don’t want to know how many elves it takes to make one pair of boots.
Kinda like the thread, dragons and the specifics of their anatomy are a pretty much have it your way thing. But I like Fizban's take on the innate magicalness of dragons. As I mentioned elsewhere in thread, Fizban presents a scheme where particularly treasured items in a dragon's hoard may become magical or more magical as the dragon's magic almost literally rubs off on it (and there's a neat table for hoard magic items). So sure you could have dragon hide being a more mundane material where it's special enough to carry enchangments given to it during its manufacture, or you could have the dragon hide itself being inherently magical and can be made manifest if the hide is crafted with care ... which is sorta a six of one half a dozen of the other split. I'd only say I think Fizban's also suggests dragons gifting PCs they patronize with things like scales and suggest the magical properties such scales may hold.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
There is very little of an official nature on the details of draconic biology. Fizban’s and the earlier Draconomicons are the primary sources and they don’t go into that much detail. You are pretty much free to create on your own. I would think that there are 2 different pieces to the armor value of the dragon scale - 1) like crocodilian “scales” they are probably containing a mineralized core of some sort perhaps more metallic than minerallic. 2) the dragon’s innate magical ness suffuses them rendering them more effective as armor than a reptilian scale.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
If you are looking for hard looks at Dragon Anatomy and Physiology try these.
https://www.dragonsinn.net/dragon-anatomy/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-Ns1WMgXdI
https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-M5RUvwtcGAxR-NrveKR
https://www.thievesguild.cc/harvest/creature.php?id=111
There is quite a lot of talk and clamor over the years about harvesting dragons. Many home brews have been created, and WoTC leaves the door wide open for player input, without offering too much lore or information. I give props to any homebrew that can balance risk and reward while keeping things consistent.
You can look up digital versions of the Draconomicon and other books, but I think the best WoTC has to offer on this subject would be in Dragon Magazine if you are looking for something slightly more official. Just remember a lot of this stuff is archived on the web for reference purposes.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!