I am running Shadow of the Dragon Queen, and my players are going to arrive soon in Kalaman.
I was trying to figure how many people were actually going to live in the city, to understand the kind of city I wanted to portrait, and consequently how many people serve in the army.
Looking at the published map, the size of the city is between 80 to 100 acres, which would translate to a population between 5000 and 6000 people.
These numbers however seem to be incompatible when, somewhere in a later chapter, it is mentioned that the city gives to an NPC a few hundred soldiers, implying that they were not a meaningful number.
Dragonlance has never really been a 'detailed demographics' kind of setting, so I was surprised to find that War of the Lance, the licensed D&D3 sourcebook from Margaret Weis' Sovereign Press (2004), actually does give Kalaman a population of 9,267 at this point in history (gotta love that precision), which still seems small in context, but might be accurate.
Compare medieval Marseilles, which had a population of 25,000 in the 13th century, but 10,000 in the 14th, following the bubonic plague. Given the occupation and the fact that the world has not yet fully recovered from the Cataclysm, Kalaman could be on the lower end of that range.
Doesn't much help with the soldier problem, as even 100 soldiers would be a substantial investment for a city that size, but it is what it is.
I would be a little awed to learn that WotC proofreads their material for this sort of thing in 2023; it's just not a priority for a majority of their fanbase. I would not consider their maps to be accurate for any purpose other than relative direction and distance between landmarks, which is to say their most obvious purpose.
In other words, I'd make Kalaman as big as you think it needs to be to make sense to you and your players. It's a big city. One of the biggest on Ansalon. You won't mess anything up by making it too big.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
As already mentioned the old 3.5 version of the War of the Lance sourcebook is extremely useful, as is the Dragons of Spring adventure book for basic data about Kalaman.
Dragons of Spring really covers Kalaman just after the events in Shadow of the Dragon Queen so it comes in handy if you want to continue the story beyond the end of the adventure with Kitiara and the Blue Dragon Army showing up with a couple of flying citadels. Bakaris at that point having wormed his way into the Dragonarmies and become her subordinate.
It does show up some minor errors though, the governor at the time of Shadow of the Dragon Queen should actually be Lord Lerrin Miat (Calof is his son and has possible Dragonarmy sympathies) and there is no mention of any Solamnic Knights in the city. There was a bit of a revolution sometime back that set most of the population against the order. (The same one that exiled Sturm Brightblade?)
Easy enough to fix though as all you have to do is give Marshal Vendri a couple of minor Knights from a local order (Knights of Kalaman?) and half a dozen guards under her direct command while leaving Aletsi Farland in charge of the local militia that makes up the bulk of the city's military. During SotDQ you could possibly introduce Calof as the third son of the governor and have him get friendly with Bakaris, a useful set-up for later.
As already mentioned the old 3.5 version of the War of the Lance sourcebook is extremely useful, as is the Dragons of Spring adventure book for basic data about Kalaman.
Dragons of Spring really covers Kalaman just after the events in Shadow of the Dragon Queen so it comes in handy if you want to continue the story beyond the end of the adventure with Kitiara and the Blue Dragon Army showing up with a couple of flying citadels. Bakaris at that point having wormed his way into the Dragonarmies and become her subordinate.
Thanks for mentioning this, I was not aware that Weis had produced new versions of the original DL modules for D&D3; I'll have to look for these!
Clarify something for me, though, does Dragons of Spring not cover early 352 AC? Assuming that is the case, there's a long year and a lot of wartime between Shadow of the Dragon Queen and DL13 Dragons of Truth.
I do love that SotDQ almost seems to be written like the first entry in a series. It's a nice nod that it is part of a larger fiction, even if it gets a ton of details wrong.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Yes, they produced somewhat updated versions for the 3.5 edition of the rules, split into three volumes, Dragons of Autumn, Dragons of Winter and the previously mentioned Dragons of Spring. You can find PDF versions available online. I actually don't think there is all that much wrong with SotDQ other than a few minor errors here and there.
The actual timeline of SotDQ is a little vague, as are a lot of events around Kalaman in the late 351-early 352 period. Sometime during 351 after the events of SotDQ Kitiara, by this point in full command of the Blue Dragon Army passes through on the way to invade Solamnia and put the High Clerist`s Tower under siege. Bakaris is definitely with her at that point.
Kalaman appears to surrender and is occupied by the Dragonarmies until sometime into 352 when it`s liberated by the forces of Whitestone. Then there is a major siege later in 352 which is eventually relieved by the main Whitestone army commanded by Laurana. It`s somewhat after that when the Whitestone Council takes up residence there, Gilthanas being elected governor as Calof seems to have had the job during the occupation though he seems all too ready to hand the job over.
There seem to be hints here of a lot of plot and intrigue about the time Kitiara arrives in late 351. Perhaps Governor Thren and Marshal Ventri (with the PC`s) want to resist but the town council under the influence of Calof and Necolai (who are secretly working with Bakaris), vote Thren out of office. They then order Sherrif Farland to stand down the militia and surrender.
Then Ventri and the PC`s have to set up a resistance movement.
It does show up some minor errors though, the governor at the time of Shadow of the Dragon Queen should actually be Lord Lerrin Miat (Calof is his son and has possible Dragonarmy sympathies) and there is no mention of any Solamnic Knights in the city. There was a bit of a revolution sometime back that set most of the population against the order. (The same one that exiled Sturm Brightblade?)
War of the Lance quotes Calof Miat as current governor:
Calof Miat, N male human noble 2 (governor, third son of previous governor);
... He has long been a staunch supporter of the Knights of Solamnia though he has kept this quiet since the Dragonarmies have taken control of Kalaman.
whereas "The Aesthetics Guide to Ansalon: Palanthas and Solamnia" names Lerrin Miat:
Governor Lerrin Miat Lawful Neutral Human Male Renowned as a wise leader, Lerrin Miat is one of the most influential lords in Solamnia who has a reputation for always having the best interests of his city and it’s people at heart. ... He has three loyal sons, all of whom have been carefully groomed to one day enter into the political sphere and take the position of governor one day. The eldest two are just as headstrong as their father and take after him in many ways, but the youngest – Calof – is far more patient and is considered a far more interesting future prospect by the leaders of the trading guilds.
The many inaccuracies in the sourcebook really drive one crazy. :-(
Seems that with SoDQ WotC went with Calof as governor using the data from Pg 158 of the 3.5 War of the Lance sourcebook while The Aesthetics Guide goes for the information on Pg 138 of the Dragons of Spring book. Most likely both sets of information are correct but what is in the War of the Lance book is for a few months later than that from Dragons of Spring.
Given what happens to the governor in SoDQ and the fact that the original novels have Calof as governor when the city is liberated by the Whitestone forces mid 352, if we have Lerrin in the office at the time of the new adventure we can fix a long-standing error dating from the 3.5 era sourcebooks and have the possibility of a lot of potential plot revolving round Kalaman during its fall to the Blue Dragonarmy and subsequent occupation in the late 351, early 352 period. Then after that we could possibly run some of the later TSR era modules with the PCs involved and interacting with some of the original characters once they get to Kalaman.
Yeah, I kind of thought that 9,200 persons was kinda SMALL for a major medieval city, especially as they're getting invaded/besieged by a red dragon army of about 10,000! I always thought Kalaman was the Krynn equivalent of Waterdeep, which I believe has a population of around 100,000--which the DM guide calls a "metropolis." I'm thinking that maybe the Cataclysm reduced the populations of both Kalaman and Palanthus, but still...! I know that London had a population a bit larger, 25,000 people in 1200, the 13th Century, which would be about right. In preparing Kalaman for running this campaign, I tweaked the city's defenses a bit. You know those statues that line the outer curtain walls? Heh. I enchanted them, similar to the walking statues of Waterdeep! One of the NPC wizards of High Sorcery knows the secret, and animates them, then activates a dome of Force over the whole city--THAT gave Lord Soth pause! The clues are there in the city's description--the walls have existed since before the Cataclysm, and Istar had technology mixed with magic, so...!
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I am running Shadow of the Dragon Queen, and my players are going to arrive soon in Kalaman.
I was trying to figure how many people were actually going to live in the city, to understand the kind of city I wanted to portrait, and consequently how many people serve in the army.
Looking at the published map, the size of the city is between 80 to 100 acres, which would translate to a population between 5000 and 6000 people.
These numbers however seem to be incompatible when, somewhere in a later chapter, it is mentioned that the city gives to an NPC a few hundred soldiers, implying that they were not a meaningful number.
Is there a reliable source for these information?
https://notenotturne.blogspot.com/
Dragonlance has never really been a 'detailed demographics' kind of setting, so I was surprised to find that War of the Lance, the licensed D&D3 sourcebook from Margaret Weis' Sovereign Press (2004), actually does give Kalaman a population of 9,267 at this point in history (gotta love that precision), which still seems small in context, but might be accurate.
Compare medieval Marseilles, which had a population of 25,000 in the 13th century, but 10,000 in the 14th, following the bubonic plague. Given the occupation and the fact that the world has not yet fully recovered from the Cataclysm, Kalaman could be on the lower end of that range.
Doesn't much help with the soldier problem, as even 100 soldiers would be a substantial investment for a city that size, but it is what it is.
I would be a little awed to learn that WotC proofreads their material for this sort of thing in 2023; it's just not a priority for a majority of their fanbase. I would not consider their maps to be accurate for any purpose other than relative direction and distance between landmarks, which is to say their most obvious purpose.
In other words, I'd make Kalaman as big as you think it needs to be to make sense to you and your players. It's a big city. One of the biggest on Ansalon. You won't mess anything up by making it too big.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Hi, thanks for taking time to answer this; good to know about the War of the Lance sourcebook, I will give it a look.
https://notenotturne.blogspot.com/
As already mentioned the old 3.5 version of the War of the Lance sourcebook is extremely useful, as is the Dragons of Spring adventure book for basic data about Kalaman.
Dragons of Spring really covers Kalaman just after the events in Shadow of the Dragon Queen so it comes in handy if you want to continue the story beyond the end of the adventure with Kitiara and the Blue Dragon Army showing up with a couple of flying citadels. Bakaris at that point having wormed his way into the Dragonarmies and become her subordinate.
It does show up some minor errors though, the governor at the time of Shadow of the Dragon Queen should actually be Lord Lerrin Miat (Calof is his son and has possible Dragonarmy sympathies) and there is no mention of any Solamnic Knights in the city. There was a bit of a revolution sometime back that set most of the population against the order. (The same one that exiled Sturm Brightblade?)
Easy enough to fix though as all you have to do is give Marshal Vendri a couple of minor Knights from a local order (Knights of Kalaman?) and half a dozen guards under her direct command while leaving Aletsi Farland in charge of the local militia that makes up the bulk of the city's military. During SotDQ you could possibly introduce Calof as the third son of the governor and have him get friendly with Bakaris, a useful set-up for later.
Thanks for mentioning this, I was not aware that Weis had produced new versions of the original DL modules for D&D3; I'll have to look for these!
Clarify something for me, though, does Dragons of Spring not cover early 352 AC? Assuming that is the case, there's a long year and a lot of wartime between Shadow of the Dragon Queen and DL13 Dragons of Truth.
I do love that SotDQ almost seems to be written like the first entry in a series. It's a nice nod that it is part of a larger fiction, even if it gets a ton of details wrong.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Yes, they produced somewhat updated versions for the 3.5 edition of the rules, split into three volumes, Dragons of Autumn, Dragons of Winter and the previously mentioned Dragons of Spring. You can find PDF versions available online. I actually don't think there is all that much wrong with SotDQ other than a few minor errors here and there.
The actual timeline of SotDQ is a little vague, as are a lot of events around Kalaman in the late 351-early 352 period. Sometime during 351 after the events of SotDQ Kitiara, by this point in full command of the Blue Dragon Army passes through on the way to invade Solamnia and put the High Clerist`s Tower under siege. Bakaris is definitely with her at that point.
Kalaman appears to surrender and is occupied by the Dragonarmies until sometime into 352 when it`s liberated by the forces of Whitestone. Then there is a major siege later in 352 which is eventually relieved by the main Whitestone army commanded by Laurana. It`s somewhat after that when the Whitestone Council takes up residence there, Gilthanas being elected governor as Calof seems to have had the job during the occupation though he seems all too ready to hand the job over.
There seem to be hints here of a lot of plot and intrigue about the time Kitiara arrives in late 351. Perhaps Governor Thren and Marshal Ventri (with the PC`s) want to resist but the town council under the influence of Calof and Necolai (who are secretly working with Bakaris), vote Thren out of office. They then order Sherrif Farland to stand down the militia and surrender.
Then Ventri and the PC`s have to set up a resistance movement.
War of the Lance quotes Calof Miat as current governor:
whereas "The Aesthetics Guide to Ansalon: Palanthas and Solamnia" names Lerrin Miat:
The many inaccuracies in the sourcebook really drive one crazy. :-(
Seems that with SoDQ WotC went with Calof as governor using the data from Pg 158 of the 3.5 War of the Lance sourcebook while The Aesthetics Guide goes for the information on Pg 138 of the Dragons of Spring book. Most likely both sets of information are correct but what is in the War of the Lance book is for a few months later than that from Dragons of Spring.
Given what happens to the governor in SoDQ and the fact that the original novels have Calof as governor when the city is liberated by the Whitestone forces mid 352, if we have Lerrin in the office at the time of the new adventure we can fix a long-standing error dating from the 3.5 era sourcebooks and have the possibility of a lot of potential plot revolving round Kalaman during its fall to the Blue Dragonarmy and subsequent occupation in the late 351, early 352 period. Then after that we could possibly run some of the later TSR era modules with the PCs involved and interacting with some of the original characters once they get to Kalaman.
Yeah, I kind of thought that 9,200 persons was kinda SMALL for a major medieval city, especially as they're getting invaded/besieged by a red dragon army of about 10,000! I always thought Kalaman was the Krynn equivalent of Waterdeep, which I believe has a population of around 100,000--which the DM guide calls a "metropolis." I'm thinking that maybe the Cataclysm reduced the populations of both Kalaman and Palanthus, but still...! I know that London had a population a bit larger, 25,000 people in 1200, the 13th Century, which would be about right. In preparing Kalaman for running this campaign, I tweaked the city's defenses a bit. You know those statues that line the outer curtain walls? Heh. I enchanted them, similar to the walking statues of Waterdeep! One of the NPC wizards of High Sorcery knows the secret, and animates them, then activates a dome of Force over the whole city--THAT gave Lord Soth pause! The clues are there in the city's description--the walls have existed since before the Cataclysm, and Istar had technology mixed with magic, so...!