I agree. The story / lore isn't what needs to be updated, it's the stats and mechanics. Some stuff is easily converted from 2e, 3e, and beyond, but other stuff has no mechanical equivalent and/or may be difficult to ascribe XP to.
Just books that update the mechanics to 5e with just enough story background / flavor would be enough, imho. Don't even need to say if anything new's been going on. Just summarizing all the old stuff and refining it and clarifying it would be good. I don't need another 300 pages of what's been going on in the last 200 years of the Forgotten Realms, and it basically amounts to "everything has changed so much that all your old material is useless if you want to run a game in this new timeline".
I agree. The story / lore isn't what needs to be updated, it's the stats and mechanics. Some stuff is easily converted from 2e, 3e, and beyond, but other stuff has no mechanical equivalent and/or may be difficult to ascribe XP to.
Just books that update the mechanics to 5e with just enough story background / flavor would be enough, imho. Don't even need to say if anything new's been going on. Just summarizing all the old stuff and refining it and clarifying it would be good. I don't need another 300 pages of what's been going on in the last 200 years of the Forgotten Realms, and it basically amounts to "everything has changed so much that all your old material is useless if you want to run a game in this new timeline".
Yup. The "party line" is that all the old fluff works, so the other settings are still available for play and part of D&D canon. The truth is that it's really hard to play without some mechanics. It's also not like the other settings are anything but a footnote without at least enough information on the shelf to prompt a newer player to go look for more.
I run/co run a Birtthright campaign that’s been going since I got the 5e core books. I have a group that has my self and six players plus we lost a couple of players due to life changes. The thoughts that it is dead I would say are wrong but it is true that the community is small but I have introduced it to seven players and they love it. I would also like to point out that Game of Thrones has had a lot of inspiration taken from this setting. I am sure that you would never get Goerge R R Martin to confirm that but there are so many things there that it is hard for me to believe it is al coincidence. That said moving the setting on would be a massive undertaking that without great skill would alienate the fan base, I think that an official conversion with minor setting updates would work a lot better and be more cost effective for them.
I stopped being a fan of Forgotten Realms right around the time the 3e campaign book came out and I realized that Toril had a second “Apocalypse” ( The first one being during the changeover to 2e) and would likely have another if/when 4e came out to reflect rules changes. Add to that a few dozen or so trilogies, quintets, and other long running series of novels based in FR, it’s a wonder there’s any adventures left to have and mysterious locations left to find.
As silly at it may sound to some, FR has basically become too bloated with information. It’s too familiar and well known which removes a lot of the mystery from the game; it’s essentially on the opposite end of the scale from “Not enough information”.
I stopped being a fan of Forgotten Realms right around the time the 3e campaign book came out and I realized that Toril had a second “Apocalypse” ( The first one being during the changeover to 2e) and would likely have another if/when 4e came out to reflect rules changes. Add to that a few dozen or so trilogies, quintets, and other long running series of novels based in FR, it’s a wonder there’s any adventures left to have and mysterious locations left to find.
As silly at it may sound to some, FR has basically become too bloated with information. It’s too familiar and well known which removes a lot of the mystery from the game; it’s essentially on the opposite end of the scale from “Not enough information”.
I feel as though you lack imagination. I know that sounds strange but there is nothing saying you have to think of every novel written in faerun as cannon in some way. Even if you want to roll that way and your party is heavily invested in that setting having read many of the novels it doesn't mean mystical things cannot still occur. Civilizations returning from another plane, rising from the ocean, perhaps temples being brought forward in time, or heck maybe they went fishing in possible futures where a certain faction gained preeminence and bring them back at the height of their power. Just because it is dense doesn't mean there is no room for more. There is always room for more with a strong imagination. Not every adventurer in Faerun is going to run into the leavings of Drizzt.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
So, this is a little unrelated, but I just had an idea regarding "dead settings." How about a campaign set in a world devastated by calamity, everything is in ruins and most history and knowledge are lost. As the campaign progresses, drop in something specific from one of the settings, it almost doesn't matter what, like maybe a text written by Raistlin Majere. The players then start to think "Oh, we must be in somewhere in the Dragonlance setting then." Later they come across a mostly ruined city, only to learn that it used to be the city of Sharn from Eberron, complete with warforged and Dragonmarks.
Just keep revealing stuff from different settings, until an eventual reveal that the multiverse suffered an apocalyptic collapse, and the world the players have been adventuring in is literally a hodgepodge of surviving fragments from now-lost worlds.
" I feel as though you lack imagination. I know that sounds strange but there is nothing saying you have to think of every novel written in faerun as cannon in some way. Even if you want to roll that way and your party is heavily invested in that setting having read many of the novels it doesn't mean mystical things cannot still occur. Civilizations returning from another plane, rising from the ocean, perhaps temples being brought forward in time, or heck maybe they went fishing in possible futures where a certain faction gained preeminence and bring them back at the height of their power. Just because it is dense doesn't mean there is no room for more. There is always room for more with a strong imagination. Not every adventurer in Faerun is going to run into the leavings of Drizzt."
You're right, they're not. But you're not taking into account the setting fiends and fan-kiddies who will use player knowledge to adjust the game to their favor (and heaven help you if get something "wrong") or want to play an "archetype" character that's really just a clone of (insert name of character from established setting here). I've dealt with them enough times over the decades on either side of the screen that I got so tired of it. The best way I've found to discourage that behavior is to not manage campaigns in well-established settings; it cuts down greatly on such things like setting arguments and blantant cookie-cutter characters.
Don't get me wrong, I've love reading the FR novels; The Cleric Quintet is one of my favorites series, in fact. But that doesn't change the fact that I prefer homebrew settings because it keeps the mystery and exploration aspects of D&D going strong and, more importantly, interesting. Now if you still feel doing that, I "Lack Imagination", I can't much about that other than shake my head sadly and walk away.
I feel like new players aren't really being introduced to the Forgotten Realms. They are being introduced to hints about this setting, but don't have nearly enough solid material to actually run a game in the Realms.
SCAG has plenty of info to run in the Realms, and even the other books are focused on the Realms, and have more than enough info to run a game.
2nd edition got a Campaign Setting book. (And a whole bunch of supplements.)
3rd edition got a Campaign Setting book. (And a whole bunch of supplements.)
4th edition got both a Campaign guide and a Settings guide.
And 5th ed gets the SCAG (Compare what the SCAG does for new players versus what 4th edition did for new players), and apparently... that's it.
You can run a game, sure. Can you run a game in the Realms like those of us who remember that boxed set can? Not really.
All of which are perfectly usable in 5e with conversions, (which are free). Personally, I don't subscribe to any FR setting info published for 4e, I decided to continue my FR campaign right where 3e left off and introduced the new 5e storylines right after. That's the beauty of D&D, as a DM I can take a published setting and make it my own. I mostly ignore all the events from the novel, I decide what's canon, or I change the canon.
SCAG is a great sourcebook for updating important classes, and races to 5e, while it does 'update' the timeline to 5e its not compulsory. I admit Im a huge fan, and have been since 1e of the FR; I have told countless stories there, and it makes perfect sense why Wizards wants it to be their default story setting for now. I am hopeful, as many of you, that Planescape, (my favorite) will be given some official story releases like Ravenloft did.
I read your initial post, but not 94 other comments.
I'm wondering if WotC is building a new setting for 5E. That would be the best way to make money.
Maybe. Maybe not.
If it's one thing D&D is not hurting for, it's choices of Campaign Settings. Between what already has been published, both by TSR/WOTC and numerous 3rd-party party publishers, you can probably find an interesting setting that will click for you and your group.
Now as for a brand new (1st-party) campaign setting, it would have to be a doozy of a background for the D&D team, (which, I'm told, is the smallest department in WOTC), to dedicate time and resources to develop, playtest, revise, playtest again, revise again, layout, print, and ship a new book.
Not saying it wont happen, but it doesn't seem really likely right now.
I read your initial post, but not 94 other comments.
I'm wondering if WotC is building a new setting for 5E. That would be the best way to make money.
They're not; they are maximizing on the 7 or so settings they've already published; they seem to focus on the Forgotten Realms for their adventure modules at present; maybe in the future they'll switch to Eberron or Planescape which is what many hope. I can put my money that they are not invested in the time and effort to release a new campaign setting ;-)
However, as much as I REALLY want new products for some of the old settings and think the others are right about the practical aspects, I’d still be very excited to see what the team would come up with for a new setting. I like shiny new things and would like even more imaginative settings (although I know in the business sense, it’s not feasible, but I can dream, can’t I?), plus I think the people they have could come up with something really amazing.
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I agree. The story / lore isn't what needs to be updated, it's the stats and mechanics. Some stuff is easily converted from 2e, 3e, and beyond, but other stuff has no mechanical equivalent and/or may be difficult to ascribe XP to.
Just books that update the mechanics to 5e with just enough story background / flavor would be enough, imho. Don't even need to say if anything new's been going on. Just summarizing all the old stuff and refining it and clarifying it would be good. I don't need another 300 pages of what's been going on in the last 200 years of the Forgotten Realms, and it basically amounts to "everything has changed so much that all your old material is useless if you want to run a game in this new timeline".
I guess the survey of today is a good opportunity to ask for our setting of preference (you can ask for up to 3 settings).
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/dd-survey
Time fades even legend...
We do bones, motherf***ker!
Would be cool if they open the results at the end. Does anyone have more info on this ?
I run/co run a Birtthright campaign that’s been going since I got the 5e core books. I have a group that has my self and six players plus we lost a couple of players due to life changes. The thoughts that it is dead I would say are wrong but it is true that the community is small but I have introduced it to seven players and they love it. I would also like to point out that Game of Thrones has had a lot of inspiration taken from this setting. I am sure that you would never get Goerge R R Martin to confirm that but there are so many things there that it is hard for me to believe it is al coincidence. That said moving the setting on would be a massive undertaking that without great skill would alienate the fan base, I think that an official conversion with minor setting updates would work a lot better and be more cost effective for them.
I wish they had brought back the "vaguely Greyhawk" implied setting of the 3rd/3.5 era. Maybe I just liked the flavor of it a little better.
I stopped being a fan of Forgotten Realms right around the time the 3e campaign book came out and I realized that Toril had a second “Apocalypse” ( The first one being during the changeover to 2e) and would likely have another if/when 4e came out to reflect rules changes. Add to that a few dozen or so trilogies, quintets, and other long running series of novels based in FR, it’s a wonder there’s any adventures left to have and mysterious locations left to find.
As silly at it may sound to some, FR has basically become too bloated with information. It’s too familiar and well known which removes a lot of the mystery from the game; it’s essentially on the opposite end of the scale from “Not enough information”.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
So, this is a little unrelated, but I just had an idea regarding "dead settings." How about a campaign set in a world devastated by calamity, everything is in ruins and most history and knowledge are lost. As the campaign progresses, drop in something specific from one of the settings, it almost doesn't matter what, like maybe a text written by Raistlin Majere. The players then start to think "Oh, we must be in somewhere in the Dragonlance setting then." Later they come across a mostly ruined city, only to learn that it used to be the city of Sharn from Eberron, complete with warforged and Dragonmarks.
Just keep revealing stuff from different settings, until an eventual reveal that the multiverse suffered an apocalyptic collapse, and the world the players have been adventuring in is literally a hodgepodge of surviving fragments from now-lost worlds.
" I feel as though you lack imagination. I know that sounds strange but there is nothing saying you have to think of every novel written in faerun as cannon in some way. Even if you want to roll that way and your party is heavily invested in that setting having read many of the novels it doesn't mean mystical things cannot still occur. Civilizations returning from another plane, rising from the ocean, perhaps temples being brought forward in time, or heck maybe they went fishing in possible futures where a certain faction gained preeminence and bring them back at the height of their power. Just because it is dense doesn't mean there is no room for more. There is always room for more with a strong imagination. Not every adventurer in Faerun is going to run into the leavings of Drizzt."
You're right, they're not. But you're not taking into account the setting fiends and fan-kiddies who will use player knowledge to adjust the game to their favor (and heaven help you if get something "wrong") or want to play an "archetype" character that's really just a clone of (insert name of character from established setting here). I've dealt with them enough times over the decades on either side of the screen that I got so tired of it. The best way I've found to discourage that behavior is to not manage campaigns in well-established settings; it cuts down greatly on such things like setting arguments and blantant cookie-cutter characters.
Don't get me wrong, I've love reading the FR novels; The Cleric Quintet is one of my favorites series, in fact. But that doesn't change the fact that I prefer homebrew settings because it keeps the mystery and exploration aspects of D&D going strong and, more importantly, interesting. Now if you still feel doing that, I "Lack Imagination", I can't much about that other than shake my head sadly and walk away.
Forever Dungeon Master & Storyteller
I read your initial post, but not 94 other comments.
I'm wondering if WotC is building a new setting for 5E. That would be the best way to make money.
You, you and you- panic. Everyone else- follow me.
Forever Dungeon Master & Storyteller
However, as much as I REALLY want new products for some of the old settings and think the others are right about the practical aspects, I’d still be very excited to see what the team would come up with for a new setting. I like shiny new things and would like even more imaginative settings (although I know in the business sense, it’s not feasible, but I can dream, can’t I?), plus I think the people they have could come up with something really amazing.