I think it is well-established/accepted that "Standard Languages" (5e rules) are written linearly (left-to-right, right-to-left, up-to-down) with the exception of making word art.
What about exotic languages like Abyssal, Sylvan, Primordial, etc? Languages that did not evolve in the Material Plane along with Standard Languages could be extremely bizarre.
What are your thoughts? How do you represent exotic languages in your settings?
Here are some of my thoughts. (Mind you, I only have the PHB, DMG, and MM regarding languages. Some other source might go into details of which I am unaware.)
I read a thing about Infernal that described it looking like a series of summoning circles with the Infernal letters arranged around various shapes, lines, orientations, and so on - extremely precise. i.e. A pair of Infernal letters, oriented toward the center of the largest circle, at .15" tall, positioned at the lowest point of a right-triangle that is 1/5 the size of the largest perfect circle, with it's 90 degree point directed at 5 degrees off of the horizontal to the left, with the geometric center of the triangle offset by 1/21st of the triangle's size directly vertical would mean only one possible specific intent. Combined with a series of such precise shapes in one "circle" (which can have several circles scattered around, but still with an overall circle of some kind as the bases, even if not a perfect circle), a statement as precise as a binding contract is made. A series of such circles flows from one to the next to form complete scenarios of intent, all arranged in a particular way which can alter the intent if misplaced - a kind of meta language where each layer of circles embedded in circles changes the overall meaning but can never be misinterpreted when read correctly - a language so alien to the Material Plane that only highly-trained people can read it, and likely only a few non-Devils can write it anywhere near as clear as Devils can.
To me, that's fascinating.
I started to think on it's inverse, the Abyssal language, as a perversion of Infernal. A series of scribblings in various arrangements with the Infernal alphabet using no geometric positions or shapes and can have many configurations that could mean the same thing as well as similar configurations meaning several possible different things. People with low understanding of Abyssal could easily misinterpret it (but never mistake it for Infernal despite the use of the same letters).
What about Primordial using Dwarvish letters? Since elementals are typically summoned, could it have some resemblance to Infernal using Dwarvish letters but without the excruciatingly precise positioning or without any inclusion of geometric shapes? The size of the letters could change the meaning of a world by having a certain letter be larger than those next to it in the same sequence as another word that has a different letter being larger or smaller. Perhaps spirally outward from a single point in either a circular or angular way, with any shape being correct and usually reliant on the shape of the writing area overall.
Sylvan? Could it be like Elvish letters in a way that is hard to see among some accompanying illustrations which add to the meaning of the Sylvan words - looks more like artwork with odd flourishes that are actually Elvish lettering incorporated into the flowing lines of drawings, nearly invisible to the untrained eye? Hiding in plain sight, not completely unlike Thieves' Cant, but the meaning hidden among lettering in drawings, not meaning hidden among seemingly-common words.
I figure Undercommon would bear some resemblance to Common (assuming that Common, itself, was born of a trade language).
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Well, I think it's established in one of the books that Abyssal uses the Infernal Alphabet. I suppose the idea is that demons have more of an oral tradition and so never developed a written language (or are constantly developing new ones and going to war over them internally). And of course, no ordinary alphabet can contain such PURE EVIL!!! I don't know how I feel about all that. I like Abyssal not having it's own writing system, but I'm not sure what's likelier, writing it in Infernal because of scholarship done by devils in pursuit of the Blood War, or something else based on Sylvan, since most of the scholarship on demons performed by mortals would be performed by the Drow, and leak out from Menzo or wherever into the hands of Candlekeep or whoever. So far, I'm splitting the difference. My players who are in Hell see Abyssal written in Infernal, but maybe there's a separate tradition of writing it in Sylvan on the Prime.
Similarly, I think written Primordial would probably look like Druidic, which I visualize as hieroglyphics, trying to convey a complex scientific scholarship with what started millennia ago as a hobo scratch code.
Sylvan, I'm already pretty much hardwired into thinking it's just a fancy cursive, based not just on many editions worth of D&D, but Tolkien. Same with Dwarven looking runic, though in their case, I think you could also say that it's derived from Giant runes.
I think Undercommon probably follows the grammar rules of Sylvan, but I think the written form is more like Braille.
As far as just the fonts go, I like Chris Perkins's Infernal from the Baldur's Gate book. It looks evil. And I think the Draconic that looks Tibetan is cool.
I instinctively think that since all the alphabets provided so far are just 1-1 ciphers with the Roman alphabet, they are written and read L-R and up-down.
I usually think about things like draconic probably has to be something easily written with a claw, so slash and puncture markings, probably written completely around a room instead of a single wall. Then sylvan being taller and rounded swoops because a lot of them prefer to be fluttering around like a hummingbirds and the language accounting for the movement while writing, probably written from top down and separation of words has a symbol rather then a space.
Then most material plane languages are the degraded versions of languages of the other planes.
I decided to create an alphabet for a Goblinoid Race that is a representation of semaphore. It is very handy and gives the proper effect on players at the table.
I also use online translators to create words and names by asking for them to be translated into other languages. For example, I translate English text into Latin and then copy it using a swirly script font and call that Elven. I have one player that studied a bit of Latin in HS so I think he'll figure it out eventually. For Dwarven I often translate English into Scots.
Your observation that language doesn't have to be left to right is interesting. I understand several languages, including Hebrew, was a right to left language. Of course there are Far eastern languages that are top down and written with symbols, characters or glyphs. That can be fun but also sounds challenging to me as a DM.
Anything that improves immersion sounds pretty good.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I think it is well-established/accepted that "Standard Languages" (5e rules) are written linearly (left-to-right, right-to-left, up-to-down) with the exception of making word art.
What about exotic languages like Abyssal, Sylvan, Primordial, etc? Languages that did not evolve in the Material Plane along with Standard Languages could be extremely bizarre.
What are your thoughts? How do you represent exotic languages in your settings?
Here are some of my thoughts. (Mind you, I only have the PHB, DMG, and MM regarding languages. Some other source might go into details of which I am unaware.)
I read a thing about Infernal that described it looking like a series of summoning circles with the Infernal letters arranged around various shapes, lines, orientations, and so on - extremely precise. i.e. A pair of Infernal letters, oriented toward the center of the largest circle, at .15" tall, positioned at the lowest point of a right-triangle that is 1/5 the size of the largest perfect circle, with it's 90 degree point directed at 5 degrees off of the horizontal to the left, with the geometric center of the triangle offset by 1/21st of the triangle's size directly vertical would mean only one possible specific intent. Combined with a series of such precise shapes in one "circle" (which can have several circles scattered around, but still with an overall circle of some kind as the bases, even if not a perfect circle), a statement as precise as a binding contract is made. A series of such circles flows from one to the next to form complete scenarios of intent, all arranged in a particular way which can alter the intent if misplaced - a kind of meta language where each layer of circles embedded in circles changes the overall meaning but can never be misinterpreted when read correctly - a language so alien to the Material Plane that only highly-trained people can read it, and likely only a few non-Devils can write it anywhere near as clear as Devils can.
To me, that's fascinating.
I started to think on it's inverse, the Abyssal language, as a perversion of Infernal. A series of scribblings in various arrangements with the Infernal alphabet using no geometric positions or shapes and can have many configurations that could mean the same thing as well as similar configurations meaning several possible different things. People with low understanding of Abyssal could easily misinterpret it (but never mistake it for Infernal despite the use of the same letters).
What about Primordial using Dwarvish letters? Since elementals are typically summoned, could it have some resemblance to Infernal using Dwarvish letters but without the excruciatingly precise positioning or without any inclusion of geometric shapes? The size of the letters could change the meaning of a world by having a certain letter be larger than those next to it in the same sequence as another word that has a different letter being larger or smaller. Perhaps spirally outward from a single point in either a circular or angular way, with any shape being correct and usually reliant on the shape of the writing area overall.
Sylvan? Could it be like Elvish letters in a way that is hard to see among some accompanying illustrations which add to the meaning of the Sylvan words - looks more like artwork with odd flourishes that are actually Elvish lettering incorporated into the flowing lines of drawings, nearly invisible to the untrained eye? Hiding in plain sight, not completely unlike Thieves' Cant, but the meaning hidden among lettering in drawings, not meaning hidden among seemingly-common words.
I figure Undercommon would bear some resemblance to Common (assuming that Common, itself, was born of a trade language).
I'm not sure about most exotic languages, but Descent Into Avernus has a player handout written linearly in Infernal script.
I think it is well-established/accepted that "Standard Languages" (5e rules) are written linearly (left-to-right, right-to-left, up-to-down) with the exception of making word art.
What about exotic languages like Abyssal, Sylvan, Primordial, etc? Languages that did not evolve in the Material Plane along with Standard Languages could be extremely bizarre.
What are your thoughts? How do you represent exotic languages in your settings?
Here are some of my thoughts. (Mind you, I only have the PHB, DMG, and MM regarding languages. Some other source might go into details of which I am unaware.)
I read a thing about Infernal that described it looking like a series of summoning circles with the Infernal letters arranged around various shapes, lines, orientations, and so on - extremely precise. i.e. A pair of Infernal letters, oriented toward the center of the largest circle, at .15" tall, positioned at the lowest point of a right-triangle that is 1/5 the size of the largest perfect circle, with it's 90 degree point directed at 5 degrees off of the horizontal to the left, with the geometric center of the triangle offset by 1/21st of the triangle's size directly vertical would mean only one possible specific intent. Combined with a series of such precise shapes in one "circle" (which can have several circles scattered around, but still with an overall circle of some kind as the bases, even if not a perfect circle), a statement as precise as a binding contract is made. A series of such circles flows from one to the next to form complete scenarios of intent, all arranged in a particular way which can alter the intent if misplaced - a kind of meta language where each layer of circles embedded in circles changes the overall meaning but can never be misinterpreted when read correctly - a language so alien to the Material Plane that only highly-trained people can read it, and likely only a few non-Devils can write it anywhere near as clear as Devils can.
To me, that's fascinating.
I started to think on it's inverse, the Abyssal language, as a perversion of Infernal. A series of scribblings in various arrangements with the Infernal alphabet using no geometric positions or shapes and can have many configurations that could mean the same thing as well as similar configurations meaning several possible different things. People with low understanding of Abyssal could easily misinterpret it (but never mistake it for Infernal despite the use of the same letters).
What about Primordial using Dwarvish letters? Since elementals are typically summoned, could it have some resemblance to Infernal using Dwarvish letters but without the excruciatingly precise positioning or without any inclusion of geometric shapes? The size of the letters could change the meaning of a world by having a certain letter be larger than those next to it in the same sequence as another word that has a different letter being larger or smaller. Perhaps spirally outward from a single point in either a circular or angular way, with any shape being correct and usually reliant on the shape of the writing area overall.
Sylvan? Could it be like Elvish letters in a way that is hard to see among some accompanying illustrations which add to the meaning of the Sylvan words - looks more like artwork with odd flourishes that are actually Elvish lettering incorporated into the flowing lines of drawings, nearly invisible to the untrained eye? Hiding in plain sight, not completely unlike Thieves' Cant, but the meaning hidden among lettering in drawings, not meaning hidden among seemingly-common words.
I figure Undercommon would bear some resemblance to Common (assuming that Common, itself, was born of a trade language).
I'm not sure about most exotic languages, but Descent Into Avernus has a player handout written linearly in Infernal script.
In my game, Sylvan (and its descendant, Elven) is written like Japanese, with unique symbols representing core ideas and grammatical metadata written after them in a phonetic script. Celestial, Abyssal, and Infernal sound like music; they don’t have any native written form, but mortals can transcribe them in something similar to musical notation. Primordial has no native written form and no real practical means of transcription. Linguists and other academics have ways of describing it unambiguously, but it’s like trying to write in IPA.
I think it is well-established/accepted that "Standard Languages" (5e rules) are written linearly (left-to-right, right-to-left, up-to-down) with the exception of making word art.
What about exotic languages like Abyssal, Sylvan, Primordial, etc? Languages that did not evolve in the Material Plane along with Standard Languages could be extremely bizarre.
What are your thoughts? How do you represent exotic languages in your settings?
Here are some of my thoughts. (Mind you, I only have the PHB, DMG, and MM regarding languages. Some other source might go into details of which I am unaware.)
I read a thing about Infernal that described it looking like a series of summoning circles with the Infernal letters arranged around various shapes, lines, orientations, and so on - extremely precise. i.e. A pair of Infernal letters, oriented toward the center of the largest circle, at .15" tall, positioned at the lowest point of a right-triangle that is 1/5 the size of the largest perfect circle, with it's 90 degree point directed at 5 degrees off of the horizontal to the left, with the geometric center of the triangle offset by 1/21st of the triangle's size directly vertical would mean only one possible specific intent. Combined with a series of such precise shapes in one "circle" (which can have several circles scattered around, but still with an overall circle of some kind as the bases, even if not a perfect circle), a statement as precise as a binding contract is made. A series of such circles flows from one to the next to form complete scenarios of intent, all arranged in a particular way which can alter the intent if misplaced - a kind of meta language where each layer of circles embedded in circles changes the overall meaning but can never be misinterpreted when read correctly - a language so alien to the Material Plane that only highly-trained people can read it, and likely only a few non-Devils can write it anywhere near as clear as Devils can.
To me, that's fascinating.
I started to think on it's inverse, the Abyssal language, as a perversion of Infernal. A series of scribblings in various arrangements with the Infernal alphabet using no geometric positions or shapes and can have many configurations that could mean the same thing as well as similar configurations meaning several possible different things. People with low understanding of Abyssal could easily misinterpret it (but never mistake it for Infernal despite the use of the same letters).
What about Primordial using Dwarvish letters? Since elementals are typically summoned, could it have some resemblance to Infernal using Dwarvish letters but without the excruciatingly precise positioning or without any inclusion of geometric shapes? The size of the letters could change the meaning of a world by having a certain letter be larger than those next to it in the same sequence as another word that has a different letter being larger or smaller. Perhaps spirally outward from a single point in either a circular or angular way, with any shape being correct and usually reliant on the shape of the writing area overall.
Sylvan? Could it be like Elvish letters in a way that is hard to see among some accompanying illustrations which add to the meaning of the Sylvan words - looks more like artwork with odd flourishes that are actually Elvish lettering incorporated into the flowing lines of drawings, nearly invisible to the untrained eye? Hiding in plain sight, not completely unlike Thieves' Cant, but the meaning hidden among lettering in drawings, not meaning hidden among seemingly-common words.
I figure Undercommon would bear some resemblance to Common (assuming that Common, itself, was born of a trade language).
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Well, I think it's established in one of the books that Abyssal uses the Infernal Alphabet. I suppose the idea is that demons have more of an oral tradition and so never developed a written language (or are constantly developing new ones and going to war over them internally). And of course, no ordinary alphabet can contain such PURE EVIL!!! I don't know how I feel about all that. I like Abyssal not having it's own writing system, but I'm not sure what's likelier, writing it in Infernal because of scholarship done by devils in pursuit of the Blood War, or something else based on Sylvan, since most of the scholarship on demons performed by mortals would be performed by the Drow, and leak out from Menzo or wherever into the hands of Candlekeep or whoever. So far, I'm splitting the difference. My players who are in Hell see Abyssal written in Infernal, but maybe there's a separate tradition of writing it in Sylvan on the Prime.
Similarly, I think written Primordial would probably look like Druidic, which I visualize as hieroglyphics, trying to convey a complex scientific scholarship with what started millennia ago as a hobo scratch code.
Sylvan, I'm already pretty much hardwired into thinking it's just a fancy cursive, based not just on many editions worth of D&D, but Tolkien. Same with Dwarven looking runic, though in their case, I think you could also say that it's derived from Giant runes.
I think Undercommon probably follows the grammar rules of Sylvan, but I think the written form is more like Braille.
As far as just the fonts go, I like Chris Perkins's Infernal from the Baldur's Gate book. It looks evil. And I think the Draconic that looks Tibetan is cool.
I instinctively think that since all the alphabets provided so far are just 1-1 ciphers with the Roman alphabet, they are written and read L-R and up-down.
I usually think about things like draconic probably has to be something easily written with a claw, so slash and puncture markings, probably written completely around a room instead of a single wall. Then sylvan being taller and rounded swoops because a lot of them prefer to be fluttering around like a hummingbirds and the language accounting for the movement while writing, probably written from top down and separation of words has a symbol rather then a space.
Then most material plane languages are the degraded versions of languages of the other planes.
I decided to create an alphabet for a Goblinoid Race that is a representation of semaphore. It is very handy and gives the proper effect on players at the table.
I also use online translators to create words and names by asking for them to be translated into other languages. For example, I translate English text into Latin and then copy it using a swirly script font and call that Elven. I have one player that studied a bit of Latin in HS so I think he'll figure it out eventually. For Dwarven I often translate English into Scots.
Your observation that language doesn't have to be left to right is interesting. I understand several languages, including Hebrew, was a right to left language. Of course there are Far eastern languages that are top down and written with symbols, characters or glyphs. That can be fun but also sounds challenging to me as a DM.
Anything that improves immersion sounds pretty good.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Descent into Avernus has the Infernal script.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
as ancient symbols and runes
I'm not sure about most exotic languages, but Descent Into Avernus has a player handout written linearly in Infernal script.
Just what I said in this post.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
In my game, Sylvan (and its descendant, Elven) is written like Japanese, with unique symbols representing core ideas and grammatical metadata written after them in a phonetic script. Celestial, Abyssal, and Infernal sound like music; they don’t have any native written form, but mortals can transcribe them in something similar to musical notation. Primordial has no native written form and no real practical means of transcription. Linguists and other academics have ways of describing it unambiguously, but it’s like trying to write in IPA.
I like to imagine Draconic script being like scratches
There is already a Draconic Script in the Player's Handbook.
It does look like scratches, though.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms