Yes, and it was also in older editions as well. The version used in D&D is based a different version of the monster, that could cause anyone who met its eyes to fall down dead, but its horns were so heavy it couldn't lift its head to look someone in the eye.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Heh. I only know half of my knowledge because I read all of the Percy Jackson books at least four times.
Only four? True fans have read it, and the other series, at least 8 times (just a joke, but I have read the main series at least 8 times, and the second series at least 5 times, and the Kane Chronicles about 3-4 times.)
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Greek mythology is probably responsible for more types of D&D monsters than any other single source.
Although some, like Gorgons, have very little resemblance to their mythological origins.
Gorgons are closer to the Colchis Bulls than the Gorgons of Greek Mythology, which are now Medusas, but are more just clones of THE Medusa than the Gorgons.
Except those two breathe fire. The gorgon of D&D fame is probably closer to the "African gorgon" or catoblepas. It's a mythological Ethiopian cape buffalo or wildebeest with a breath that turns subjects to stone. That said, the name is Greek in origin and likely came about because of Alexander the Great's campaign into northern Africa.
As for where the metal armor came from (the gorgon is still flesh underneath), I don't know.
I know that. How unknowledgeable in Greek Mythology do you think I am?
(It's okay if you assumed that I didn't know much about it, the average joe knows practically nothing about it, but I am an avid absorber of Greek myths and am not the average joe on this account, especially due to my lack of clarification on my post that you quoted.)
I do know that Colchis Bulls breathe flames, but I was merely stating that the Gorgons are closer to the Greek Colchis Bulls than they are to the Greek Gorgons. Simple miscommunication.
Also, catoblepases (catoblepones) already exist in D&D 5e and previous editions, so they're probably closer to catoblepases than gorgons are ;)
I honestly don't know where 5e's Gorgon got its name. Maybe one of the older players in this thread can give me a rundown of the monster's history in previous editions?
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
The Gorgon-as-an-armor-plated-cow-with-petrification-breath dates back to at least the 2nd Edition Monstrous Compendium Volume 2 in '89. It could possible be older than that, but I don't have any info before that point.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The Gorgon-as-an-armor-plated-cow-with-petrification-breath dates back to at least the 2nd Edition Monstrous Compendium Volume 2 in '89. It could possible be older than that, but I don't have any info before that point.
I looked through an old Monster Manual from like 1981 one time and I remember the gorgon was the same way back then. The Medusa was a lady with snakes in her hair.
Greek mythology is probably responsible for more types of D&D monsters than any other single source.
Although some, like Gorgons, have very little resemblance to their mythological origins.
Gorgons are closer to the Colchis Bulls than the Gorgons of Greek Mythology, which are now Medusas, but are more just clones of THE Medusa than the Gorgons.
Except those two breathe fire. The gorgon of D&D fame is probably closer to the "African gorgon" or catoblepas. It's a mythological Ethiopian cape buffalo or wildebeest with a breath that turns subjects to stone. That said, the name is Greek in origin and likely came about because of Alexander the Great's campaign into northern Africa.
As for where the metal armor came from (the gorgon is still flesh underneath), I don't know.
I know that. How unknowledgeable in Greek Mythology do you think I am?
(It's okay if you assumed that I didn't know much about it, the average joe knows practically nothing about it, but I am an avid absorber of Greek myths and am not the average joe on this account, especially due to my lack of clarification on my post that you quoted.)
I do know that Colchis Bulls breathe flames, but I was merely stating that the Gorgons are closer to the Greek Colchis Bulls than they are to the Greek Gorgons. Simple miscommunication.
Also, catoblepases (catoblepones) already exist in D&D 5e and previous editions, so they're probably closer to catoblepases than gorgons are ;)
I honestly don't know where 5e's Gorgon got its name. Maybe one of the older players in this thread can give me a rundown of the monster's history in previous editions?
I'm the same as you, I read a lot about Greek Mythology.
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"Life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced"- Soren Kierkgaard
Greek mythology is probably responsible for more types of D&D monsters than any other single source.
Although some, like Gorgons, have very little resemblance to their mythological origins.
Gorgons are closer to the Colchis Bulls than the Gorgons of Greek Mythology, which are now Medusas, but are more just clones of THE Medusa than the Gorgons.
Except those two breathe fire. The gorgon of D&D fame is probably closer to the "African gorgon" or catoblepas. It's a mythological Ethiopian cape buffalo or wildebeest with a breath that turns subjects to stone. That said, the name is Greek in origin and likely came about because of Alexander the Great's campaign into northern Africa.
As for where the metal armor came from (the gorgon is still flesh underneath), I don't know.
I know that. How unknowledgeable in Greek Mythology do you think I am?
(It's okay if you assumed that I didn't know much about it, the average joe knows practically nothing about it, but I am an avid absorber of Greek myths and am not the average joe on this account, especially due to my lack of clarification on my post that you quoted.)
I do know that Colchis Bulls breathe flames, but I was merely stating that the Gorgons are closer to the Greek Colchis Bulls than they are to the Greek Gorgons. Simple miscommunication.
Also, catoblepases (catoblepones) already exist in D&D 5e and previous editions, so they're probably closer to catoblepases than gorgons are ;)
I honestly don't know where 5e's Gorgon got its name. Maybe one of the older players in this thread can give me a rundown of the monster's history in previous editions?
And we already know the medusa is the "proper" Greek gorgon, yet it goes by a specific sister's name. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if, back in the day, TSR just milked as much as possible by drawing from mythology; not caring in the slightest if there was an overlap.
With regards to the catoblepas and gorgon, specifically, they likely took inspiration from the Roman/West-African and Ethiopian/East-African versions to create two distinct creatures.
The Gorgon-as-an-armor-plated-cow-with-petrification-breath dates back to at least the 2nd Edition Monstrous Compendium Volume 2 in '89. It could possible be older than that, but I don't have any info before that point.
I looked through an old Monster Manual from like 1981 one time and I remember the gorgon was the same way back then. The Medusa was a lady with snakes in her hair.
I just asked my friend who’s been playing a lot longer than I have and she remembers a Medusa in a dungeon back in the early Nineties. She doesn’t remember the armor plated cow gorgon.
The Gorgon-as-an-armor-plated-cow-with-petrification-breath dates back to at least the 2nd Edition Monstrous Compendium Volume 2 in '89. It could possible be older than that, but I don't have any info before that point.
I looked through an old Monster Manual from like 1981 one time and I remember the gorgon was the same way back then. The Medusa was a lady with snakes in her hair.
I just asked my friend who’s been playing a lot longer than I have and she remembers a Medusa in a dungeon back in the early Nineties. She doesn’t remember the armor plated cow gorgon.
Let me correct you on that... it's not a cow: It's a Bovine.
The Gorgon-as-an-armor-plated-cow-with-petrification-breath dates back to at least the 2nd Edition Monstrous Compendium Volume 2 in '89. It could possible be older than that, but I don't have any info before that point.
I looked through an old Monster Manual from like 1981 one time and I remember the gorgon was the same way back then. The Medusa was a lady with snakes in her hair.
I just asked my friend who’s been playing a lot longer than I have and she remembers a Medusa in a dungeon back in the early Nineties. She doesn’t remember the armor plated cow gorgon.
Let me correct you on that... it's not a cow: It's a Bovine.
anyways... how about the Demogorgon
This reminds me of a conversation I had with someone over Bovidae minotaur. Gods, how I wish that was a subrace.
Yes. Greek Mythology is messed up. Not to mention full of "heroes" that are murderers and horrible people.
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I am part of the Cult of Grammar. Respect us. Or we will find the slightest mistake in your grammar, and never let you forget it. Clones would have saved Star Wars, and Kylo Ren sucks. MAKE THE EMPIRE GREAT AGAIN!!! I am a stormtrooper, and the Skywalker family is made of nothing but idiots who are insane. Cough Anakin and Luke Skywalker Cough
There's actually a homebrew monster called Achiles and it's over powering.
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I am part of the Cult of Grammar. Respect us. Or we will find the slightest mistake in your grammar, and never let you forget it. Clones would have saved Star Wars, and Kylo Ren sucks. MAKE THE EMPIRE GREAT AGAIN!!! I am a stormtrooper, and the Skywalker family is made of nothing but idiots who are insane. Cough Anakin and Luke Skywalker Cough
I am part of the Cult of Grammar. Respect us. Or we will find the slightest mistake in your grammar, and never let you forget it. Clones would have saved Star Wars, and Kylo Ren sucks. MAKE THE EMPIRE GREAT AGAIN!!! I am a stormtrooper, and the Skywalker family is made of nothing but idiots who are insane. Cough Anakin and Luke Skywalker Cough
And a Gorgon is NOT a bull with steel plating and fire breath. Plus I think caboblepasses or however that is said, have poison breath? But then again, this is based of of my Rick Riordan books knowledge.
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I am part of the Cult of Grammar. Respect us. Or we will find the slightest mistake in your grammar, and never let you forget it. Clones would have saved Star Wars, and Kylo Ren sucks. MAKE THE EMPIRE GREAT AGAIN!!! I am a stormtrooper, and the Skywalker family is made of nothing but idiots who are insane. Cough Anakin and Luke Skywalker Cough
And a Gorgon is NOT a bull with steel plating and fire breath. Plus I think caboblepasses or however that is said, have poison breath? But then again, this is based of of my Rick Riordan books knowledge.
I know. I don't think D&D catoblepones have poison breath, they do have a death ray, though.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
And a Gorgon is NOT a bull with steel plating and fire breath. Plus I think caboblepasses or however that is said, have poison breath? But then again, this is based of of my Rick Riordan books knowledge.
Interesting factlet; referring to bull like creatures as 'gorgons' predates D&D. In 1965 there was a bull like Inhumans character called 'Gorgon' who debuted at the same time as another Inhuman called Medusa, so this 'switcharoo' pre-dates D&D and isn't unique to it.
However, what's really interesting is that there's a 17th century book called "The Historie of Foure-Footed Beastes" (by Edward Topsell) that details many mythological beasts including an armored bull called a gorgon (also called the 'lybian beast'). Now, we don't know for sure Gygax read and/or referenced this book, but there are a lot of commonalities between how that book depicts various beasts, and how they appear early in D&D (there's a strong similarity between Four-Footed's lamia and D&Ds, so that hints that this might have been a source of inspiration for Gygax).
So basically, gorgon was used to mean 'bull like creature' as well as the general name for what Medusa was well before D&D started using it. Considering that 'Medusa' at the time was much more closely linked to petrifying monsters than 'Gorgon', it makes sense Gygax would've used that for the snake headed statue collector, and then Gorgon for an armored bull.
Ah. That makes sense. Because THE Medusa only came back once every thousand-ish years, they neaded more Medusae?
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I am part of the Cult of Grammar. Respect us. Or we will find the slightest mistake in your grammar, and never let you forget it. Clones would have saved Star Wars, and Kylo Ren sucks. MAKE THE EMPIRE GREAT AGAIN!!! I am a stormtrooper, and the Skywalker family is made of nothing but idiots who are insane. Cough Anakin and Luke Skywalker Cough
And a Gorgon is NOT a bull with steel plating and fire breath. Plus I think caboblepasses or however that is said, have poison breath? But then again, this is based of of my Rick Riordan books knowledge.
Interesting factlet; referring to bull like creatures as 'gorgons' predates D&D. In 1965 there was a bull like Inhumans character called 'Gorgon' who debuted at the same time as another Inhuman called Medusa, so this 'switcharoo' pre-dates D&D and isn't unique to it.
However, what's really interesting is that there's a 17th century book called "The Historie of Foure-Footed Beastes" (by Edward Topsell) that details many mythological beasts including an armored bull called a gorgon (also called the 'lybian beast'). Now, we don't know for sure Gygax read and/or referenced this book, but there are a lot of commonalities between how that book depicts various beasts, and how they appear early in D&D (there's a strong similarity between Four-Footed's lamia and D&Ds, so that hints that this might have been a source of inspiration for Gygax).
So basically, gorgon was used to mean 'bull like creature' as well as the general name for what Medusa was well before D&D started using it. Considering that 'Medusa' at the time was much more closely linked to petrifying monsters than 'Gorgon', it makes sense Gygax would've used that for the snake headed statue collector, and then Gorgon for an armored bull.
Fascinating!
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Yes, and it was also in older editions as well. The version used in D&D is based a different version of the monster, that could cause anyone who met its eyes to fall down dead, but its horns were so heavy it couldn't lift its head to look someone in the eye.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Only four? True fans have read it, and the other series, at least 8 times (just a joke, but I have read the main series at least 8 times, and the second series at least 5 times, and the Kane Chronicles about 3-4 times.)
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I know that. How unknowledgeable in Greek Mythology do you think I am?
(It's okay if you assumed that I didn't know much about it, the average joe knows practically nothing about it, but I am an avid absorber of Greek myths and am not the average joe on this account, especially due to my lack of clarification on my post that you quoted.)
I do know that Colchis Bulls breathe flames, but I was merely stating that the Gorgons are closer to the Greek Colchis Bulls than they are to the Greek Gorgons. Simple miscommunication.
Also, catoblepases (catoblepones) already exist in D&D 5e and previous editions, so they're probably closer to catoblepases than gorgons are ;)
I honestly don't know where 5e's Gorgon got its name. Maybe one of the older players in this thread can give me a rundown of the monster's history in previous editions?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
The Gorgon-as-an-armor-plated-cow-with-petrification-breath dates back to at least the 2nd Edition Monstrous Compendium Volume 2 in '89. It could possible be older than that, but I don't have any info before that point.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I looked through an old Monster Manual from like 1981 one time and I remember the gorgon was the same way back then. The Medusa was a lady with snakes in her hair.
I'm the same as you, I read a lot about Greek Mythology.
"Life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced"- Soren Kierkgaard
And we already know the medusa is the "proper" Greek gorgon, yet it goes by a specific sister's name. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if, back in the day, TSR just milked as much as possible by drawing from mythology; not caring in the slightest if there was an overlap.
With regards to the catoblepas and gorgon, specifically, they likely took inspiration from the Roman/West-African and Ethiopian/East-African versions to create two distinct creatures.
I just asked my friend who’s been playing a lot longer than I have and she remembers a Medusa in a dungeon back in the early Nineties. She doesn’t remember the armor plated cow gorgon.
Let me correct you on that... it's not a cow: It's a Bovine.
anyways... how about the Demogorgon
Cult of Sedge
Rangers are the best, and have always been the best
I love Homebrew
I hate paladins
Warrior Bovine
I would say that this thread is less that centaurs are messed up but Greek mythology is messed up in general.
Outside the Lines Fantasy – A collection of self published fiction stories.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with someone over Bovidae minotaur. Gods, how I wish that was a subrace.
Yes. Greek Mythology is messed up. Not to mention full of "heroes" that are murderers and horrible people.
I am part of the Cult of Grammar. Respect us. Or we will find the slightest mistake in your grammar, and never let you forget it.
Clones would have saved Star Wars, and Kylo Ren sucks.
MAKE THE EMPIRE GREAT AGAIN!!! I am a stormtrooper, and the Skywalker family is made of nothing but idiots who are insane. Cough Anakin and Luke Skywalker Cough
Don't even TRY to argue with me about Star Wars.
There's actually a homebrew monster called Achiles and it's over powering.
I am part of the Cult of Grammar. Respect us. Or we will find the slightest mistake in your grammar, and never let you forget it.
Clones would have saved Star Wars, and Kylo Ren sucks.
MAKE THE EMPIRE GREAT AGAIN!!! I am a stormtrooper, and the Skywalker family is made of nothing but idiots who are insane. Cough Anakin and Luke Skywalker Cough
Don't even TRY to argue with me about Star Wars.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/homebrew/monsters?filter-type=0&filter-search=Achilles&filter-cr-min=&filter-cr-max=&filter-armor-class-min=&filter-armor-class-max=&filter-average-hp-min=&filter-average-hp-max=&filter-is-legendary=&filter-is-mythic=&filter-has-lair=&filter-author=&filter-author-previous=&filter-author-symbol=&filter-rating=-9 That's the link to the Achilles monster.
I am part of the Cult of Grammar. Respect us. Or we will find the slightest mistake in your grammar, and never let you forget it.
Clones would have saved Star Wars, and Kylo Ren sucks.
MAKE THE EMPIRE GREAT AGAIN!!! I am a stormtrooper, and the Skywalker family is made of nothing but idiots who are insane. Cough Anakin and Luke Skywalker Cough
Don't even TRY to argue with me about Star Wars.
And a Gorgon is NOT a bull with steel plating and fire breath. Plus I think caboblepasses or however that is said, have poison breath? But then again, this is based of of my Rick Riordan books knowledge.
I am part of the Cult of Grammar. Respect us. Or we will find the slightest mistake in your grammar, and never let you forget it.
Clones would have saved Star Wars, and Kylo Ren sucks.
MAKE THE EMPIRE GREAT AGAIN!!! I am a stormtrooper, and the Skywalker family is made of nothing but idiots who are insane. Cough Anakin and Luke Skywalker Cough
Don't even TRY to argue with me about Star Wars.
I know. I don't think D&D catoblepones have poison breath, they do have a death ray, though.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
D&D's catoblepas has a foul stench like a troglodyte and death ray eyes.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Interesting factlet; referring to bull like creatures as 'gorgons' predates D&D. In 1965 there was a bull like Inhumans character called 'Gorgon' who debuted at the same time as another Inhuman called Medusa, so this 'switcharoo' pre-dates D&D and isn't unique to it.
However, what's really interesting is that there's a 17th century book called "The Historie of Foure-Footed Beastes" (by Edward Topsell) that details many mythological beasts including an armored bull called a gorgon (also called the 'lybian beast'). Now, we don't know for sure Gygax read and/or referenced this book, but there are a lot of commonalities between how that book depicts various beasts, and how they appear early in D&D (there's a strong similarity between Four-Footed's lamia and D&Ds, so that hints that this might have been a source of inspiration for Gygax).
So basically, gorgon was used to mean 'bull like creature' as well as the general name for what Medusa was well before D&D started using it. Considering that 'Medusa' at the time was much more closely linked to petrifying monsters than 'Gorgon', it makes sense Gygax would've used that for the snake headed statue collector, and then Gorgon for an armored bull.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Ah. That makes sense. Because THE Medusa only came back once every thousand-ish years, they neaded more Medusae?
I am part of the Cult of Grammar. Respect us. Or we will find the slightest mistake in your grammar, and never let you forget it.
Clones would have saved Star Wars, and Kylo Ren sucks.
MAKE THE EMPIRE GREAT AGAIN!!! I am a stormtrooper, and the Skywalker family is made of nothing but idiots who are insane. Cough Anakin and Luke Skywalker Cough
Don't even TRY to argue with me about Star Wars.
Fascinating!