Hardpoint: 4× under-wing pylon stations can be fitted to carry 600 U.S. gallon (2,270 L) drop tanksor weapons, each with a capacity of 5,000 lb (2,270 kg).
I'm gonna opt out of the discussion about classifying real world modern military hardware.
But when folks mentioned the F22 Raptor, I thought, ”Dang, what would it look like if an A 10 got a burst off on a dragon?” Would that dragons face be common out his "rear sphinctor" in little bits and pieces or what?
I think a modern military would be engaging dragons with ground-to-air missiles and Vulcan cannons and stuff. I assume a belt fed 7.62mm machine gun would penetrate their armor, and that's about 600 rounds per minute till the barrel melts.
The poll results so far mystify me. Modern humans with modern warfare would decimate dragons. We can literally nuke them from across the globe. How much damage dice does a high payload, modern nuclear warhead do? Even without nukes dragons would have to contend with modern tanks and aircraft. We have conventional bombs can can literally vaporize a 1 mile diameter AOE. And we don't even have to go that far.
Nuclear weapons damage by showering everything with x-ray radiation. Effects of x-ray radiation include damage to living cells (dracoliches would resist that), skin burns (red dragons would resist that), and cancer (seriously? Can dragons even get cancer?).
As for aircraft, dragons can just knock it out of the sky. An F-15 is about 60 by 40 feet, so six ancient dragons can fit on top of it. They weigh 45,000 pounds already, and the dragons would add a lot to that. Also, they are made of metal. Blue dragons, red dragons, gold dragons, copper dragons, black dragons...almost every type of dragon is effective against metal.
well X-ray radiation doesn't "burn" as in fire, meaning red dragons would not resist that damage. however I would classify it as poison damage, meaning greens would resist the radiation sickness.
as for planes, they fly at around 500 mph, meaning no dragons could catch up with any of them. the plane could then just simply turn around, make 150 machine gun attacks, fire 4 heat-seeking missiles and turn around again.
I personally think dragons are really cool and think this would make a good campaign or something. there is also a book on audible called mysteries of cove that explores this concept
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Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
I'm gonna opt out of the discussion about classifying real world modern military hardware.
But when folks mentioned the F22 Raptor, I thought, ”Dang, what would it look like if an A 10 got a burst off on a dragon?” Would that dragons face be common out his "rear sphinctor" in little bits and pieces or what?
No, the sheer amount of kinetic energy in each shot from a GAU-8 Avenger against living tissue would instantly turn it to a liquid state. The dragon would suddenly gain a number of very messy and ragged holes running through its body, each considerably larger than 30mm and even if it managed to avoid being hit in any vital organs it would more than likely die of shock and blood loss within a matter of minutes.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The dragon doesn't need to breathe on the tanks. It can pick up rocks, fly above the tanks beyond their arc of fire and drop things on them for 20d6 damage. Given that it doesn't seem to age, it can repeat this process until victorious.
The fighter jets are another matter altogether, and I'm going to say that a missile deals 20d6 fire and 20d6 bludgeoning damage, the same as being hit by a Meteor Swarm. Most importantly there, the dragon can never get in range of the fighter jet before it hits it with sufficient missiles to destroy it.
Even if the tank obliges the dragon by sitting perfectly still, actually hitting it with a rock dropped from high altitude is not going to be easy. And modern tanks are fast. And most possess some degree of anti-air defensive weaponry.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The dragon doesn't need to breathe on the tanks. It can pick up rocks, fly above the tanks beyond their arc of fire and drop things on them for 20d6 damage. Given that it doesn't seem to age, it can repeat this process until victorious.
The fighter jets are another matter altogether, and I'm going to say that a missile deals 20d6 fire and 20d6 bludgeoning damage, the same as being hit by a Meteor Swarm. Most importantly there, the dragon can never get in range of the fighter jet before it hits it with sufficient missiles to destroy it.
This presumes there is no Ground-to-Air elements with the tanks. Trust me, they are there. Even the Humvees have M2 50-cal machine guns that would put a hurtin on most anything biological.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
The dragon doesn't need to breathe on the tanks. It can pick up rocks, fly above the tanks beyond their arc of fire and drop things on them for 20d6 damage. Given that it doesn't seem to age, it can repeat this process until victorious.
The fighter jets are another matter altogether, and I'm going to say that a missile deals 20d6 fire and 20d6 bludgeoning damage, the same as being hit by a Meteor Swarm. Most importantly there, the dragon can never get in range of the fighter jet before it hits it with sufficient missiles to destroy it.
This presumes there is no Ground-to-Air elements with the tanks. Trust me, they are there. Even the Humvees have M2 50-cal machine guns that would put a hurtin on most anything biological.
That also assumes that tanks can't move. Like you can just drop something from the sky and the tank crew will just sit there. Also, I'm willing to bet a boulder going terminal velocity STILL won't even hurt the tank. At least not an Abrams. Those things take direct hits from main cannons and still keep going. Fighter jets don't just have missiles, they have a .878 caliber Gatlin style gun.
INFANTRY If every single person in the world (that's 8 billion people) became an infantry soldier with the stats of a commoner and an automatic rifle, and we didn't use any of our high-tech military hardware, we would have equal power to 213,333 ancient red dragons. Of course, not everyone is fit to fight, and of course, if humans are faced with an existential threat, we're going to use every weapon in our arsenal...and of course, not every dragon is an ancient red one.
NUKES A nuclear weapon would do a lot of damage. To use an example with humans, people within half a mile would be instantly killed. People up to maybe ten miles away could experience burns, which would threaten life especially within, say, 5 miles. Also, it would likely cause blindness if you're at all close to it, if temporary. We can assume that a dragon hit directly with a nuclear weapon would be pretty much vaporized, as would every dragon within perhaps 2000 feet. I'd say at least 100d6 damage (force, radiant, or fire) to anyone within several miles, and the fact that it would blind most dragons (well, we'll have to account for Legendary Resistance) within at least 20 miles might seem to seal humans' victory.
TANKS Tanks are powerful. Very. I made them a stat block, but please note that I do not know a lot about tanks (as is evident from my initial AC value for them of 16). Any suggestions are appreciated. Also, I used the range of 2/3 miles for a normal shot; a guided missile would probably have a range closer to 5/7 miles.
AIRCRAFT We can think of aircraft as dragons, but bigger, faster, and doing roughly 50d6 damage at a range of several miles.
"Commoner" is the stat block for someone who's got no serious skills or training. A person who's working the cash register at a fast food joint is probably a commoner. Someone who's complete boot camp is no longer a commoner, they're a soldier, with new proficiencies, durability, and combat training.
Dragons, regardless of type, can be killed by a small group of individuals wielding what was the height of weapons technology during the Roman Empire. Bullets fired from assault rifles, or worse yet heavy machine guns, will absolutely shred a dragon. And at much greater ranges than what you can achieve with anything from the Player's Handbook.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Metallic and Gemstone Dragons can turn into humanoids and CR 21+ dragons with spellcasting can cast simulacrum 1/day without material components. That alone means humans can't beat dragons in terms of quantity, and as a reminder, gold and brass dragons don't take damage from nukes, even if you had a credible way to nuke all of the dragons without wiping out all of the humans.
An Aspect of Bahamut is immune to nukes *and* bullets *and* can both heal the living and raise the dead in an incredibly large area approximately once every 18 seconds.
I don't see any way modern humans are winning this.
A nuclear explosion would deal Force, Thunder, Bludgeoning, Fire, Radiant, and Necrotic damage, simultaneously. There are no dragons that would survive being inside the blast radius. Not even an Aspect of Bahamut.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
A nuclear explosion would deal Force, Thunder, Bludgeoning, Fire, Radiant, and Necrotic damage, simultaneously. There are no dragons that would survive being inside the blast radius. Not even an Aspect of Bahamut.
That's false on multiple levels. Nothing on 21st century Earth can deal Force damage, for example, *period*. Literally only magic can deal Force damage, *by definition*. Similarly, 21st century humans have no way at all to deal Radiant or Necrotic damage, and the Aspect can ignore *infinite* non-magical Fire damage (which would be almost all of the nuke's output) and non-magical Bludgeoning. You can't have it both ways on the Bludgeoning, incidentally: either our bombs deal Bludgeoning or Thunder damage, depending on how you interpret it, but it intrinsically makes no sense for them to do both. A nuke would deal a relatively (compared to the Aspect's hp pool) negligible amount of Thunder damage even under the dubious assumption that it deals any Thunder damage at all.
You seem to be ignoring the PHB's explicit coverage of what each damage type entails.
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This was already resolved; we decided that it's instakill.
pm me the word "tomato"
she/her
I'm gonna opt out of the discussion about classifying real world modern military hardware.
But when folks mentioned the F22 Raptor, I thought, ”Dang, what would it look like if an A 10 got a burst off on a dragon?” Would that dragons face be common out his "rear sphinctor" in little bits and pieces or what?
I think a modern military would be engaging dragons with ground-to-air missiles and Vulcan cannons and stuff. I assume a belt fed 7.62mm machine gun would penetrate their armor, and that's about 600 rounds per minute till the barrel melts.
Dragons are smart enough not to be in a conflict that they can't win. They would polymorph to something that would be innocuous or into a human.
A dragon would take charge as a human and control the world that way. Perhaps they do now?
well X-ray radiation doesn't "burn" as in fire, meaning red dragons would not resist that damage. however I would classify it as poison damage, meaning greens would resist the radiation sickness.
as for planes, they fly at around 500 mph, meaning no dragons could catch up with any of them. the plane could then just simply turn around, make 150 machine gun attacks, fire 4 heat-seeking missiles and turn around again.
I personally think dragons are really cool and think this would make a good campaign or something. there is also a book on audible called mysteries of cove that explores this concept
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
Have you been reading Shadowrun books?
Greenstone_Walker Yes, that is generally how I have always played them though.
How many dragons?? I think that humans would win but it really depends on how many because humans are gonna have to rely on numbers here.
Agreed, now that I think about it.
pm me the word "tomato"
she/her
No, the sheer amount of kinetic energy in each shot from a GAU-8 Avenger against living tissue would instantly turn it to a liquid state. The dragon would suddenly gain a number of very messy and ragged holes running through its body, each considerably larger than 30mm and even if it managed to avoid being hit in any vital organs it would more than likely die of shock and blood loss within a matter of minutes.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The dragon doesn't need to breathe on the tanks. It can pick up rocks, fly above the tanks beyond their arc of fire and drop things on them for 20d6 damage. Given that it doesn't seem to age, it can repeat this process until victorious.
The fighter jets are another matter altogether, and I'm going to say that a missile deals 20d6 fire and 20d6 bludgeoning damage, the same as being hit by a Meteor Swarm. Most importantly there, the dragon can never get in range of the fighter jet before it hits it with sufficient missiles to destroy it.
So, dragons beat tanks, aircraft beat dragons?
pm me the word "tomato"
she/her
Even if the tank obliges the dragon by sitting perfectly still, actually hitting it with a rock dropped from high altitude is not going to be easy. And modern tanks are fast. And most possess some degree of anti-air defensive weaponry.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
This presumes there is no Ground-to-Air elements with the tanks. Trust me, they are there. Even the Humvees have M2 50-cal machine guns that would put a hurtin on most anything biological.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
That also assumes that tanks can't move. Like you can just drop something from the sky and the tank crew will just sit there. Also, I'm willing to bet a boulder going terminal velocity STILL won't even hurt the tank. At least not an Abrams. Those things take direct hits from main cannons and still keep going. Fighter jets don't just have missiles, they have a .878 caliber Gatlin style gun.
How many dragons are you talking about? 100 billion dragons would wipe us off the planet but 1 would just be a news article
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Drummer Generated Title
After having been invited to include both here, I now combine the "PM me CHEESE 🧀 and tomato into PM me "PIZZA🍕"
INFANTRY
If every single person in the world (that's 8 billion people) became an infantry soldier with the stats of a commoner and an automatic rifle, and we didn't use any of our high-tech military hardware, we would have equal power to 213,333 ancient red dragons. Of course, not everyone is fit to fight, and of course, if humans are faced with an existential threat, we're going to use every weapon in our arsenal...and of course, not every dragon is an ancient red one.
NUKES
A nuclear weapon would do a lot of damage. To use an example with humans, people within half a mile would be instantly killed. People up to maybe ten miles away could experience burns, which would threaten life especially within, say, 5 miles. Also, it would likely cause blindness if you're at all close to it, if temporary. We can assume that a dragon hit directly with a nuclear weapon would be pretty much vaporized, as would every dragon within perhaps 2000 feet. I'd say at least 100d6 damage (force, radiant, or fire) to anyone within several miles, and the fact that it would blind most dragons (well, we'll have to account for Legendary Resistance) within at least 20 miles might seem to seal humans' victory.
TANKS
Tanks are powerful. Very. I made them a stat block, but please note that I do not know a lot about tanks (as is evident from my initial AC value for them of 16). Any suggestions are appreciated. Also, I used the range of 2/3 miles for a normal shot; a guided missile would probably have a range closer to 5/7 miles.
AIRCRAFT
We can think of aircraft as dragons, but bigger, faster, and doing roughly 50d6 damage at a range of several miles.
pm me the word "tomato"
she/her
"Commoner" is the stat block for someone who's got no serious skills or training. A person who's working the cash register at a fast food joint is probably a commoner. Someone who's complete boot camp is no longer a commoner, they're a soldier, with new proficiencies, durability, and combat training.
Dragons, regardless of type, can be killed by a small group of individuals wielding what was the height of weapons technology during the Roman Empire. Bullets fired from assault rifles, or worse yet heavy machine guns, will absolutely shred a dragon. And at much greater ranges than what you can achieve with anything from the Player's Handbook.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Metallic and Gemstone Dragons can turn into humanoids and CR 21+ dragons with spellcasting can cast simulacrum 1/day without material components. That alone means humans can't beat dragons in terms of quantity, and as a reminder, gold and brass dragons don't take damage from nukes, even if you had a credible way to nuke all of the dragons without wiping out all of the humans.
An Aspect of Bahamut is immune to nukes *and* bullets *and* can both heal the living and raise the dead in an incredibly large area approximately once every 18 seconds.
I don't see any way modern humans are winning this.
A nuclear explosion would deal Force, Thunder, Bludgeoning, Fire, Radiant, and Necrotic damage, simultaneously. There are no dragons that would survive being inside the blast radius. Not even an Aspect of Bahamut.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That's false on multiple levels. Nothing on 21st century Earth can deal Force damage, for example, *period*. Literally only magic can deal Force damage, *by definition*. Similarly, 21st century humans have no way at all to deal Radiant or Necrotic damage, and the Aspect can ignore *infinite* non-magical Fire damage (which would be almost all of the nuke's output) and non-magical Bludgeoning. You can't have it both ways on the Bludgeoning, incidentally: either our bombs deal Bludgeoning or Thunder damage, depending on how you interpret it, but it intrinsically makes no sense for them to do both. A nuke would deal a relatively (compared to the Aspect's hp pool) negligible amount of Thunder damage even under the dubious assumption that it deals any Thunder damage at all.
You seem to be ignoring the PHB's explicit coverage of what each damage type entails.