A Portable Hole is a 6' diameter circle when unfolded. It is fairly obvious that RAI, a "solid surface" is intended to mean a wall, floor, or some other kind of flat area, but if we want to push the rules into semantic terminology then RAW, you still cannot use a Portable Hole this way.
It takes the whole 6' diamater circle to be pressed on or against a solid surface - note: surface, not surfaces - and then 1 action to create the extradimensional hole. The only way you can interact, RAW, is by spending an action to unfold the hole against a solid surface and creating a hole. There are no other options given.
Because it requires one surface, and it needs to be 6' in diameter, the only type of armour that you could attach to this would be a 6 foot diameter shield carried by a giant. A suit of armour is composed of many different surfaces, not a singular surface.
This will give precisely +2 AC to the giant in the same way a regular shield would.
"Solid Surface" - A surface that is solid. Being a solid is a state of matter, my skin is solid, my bones are solid, silk is solid, I can attach this to anything so long as it is not completely a liquid, gas, or some other state of matter like plasma.
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A solid surface, singular. The armor is made of multiple solid surfaces.
"But a wall is made of multiple bricks, and no one would say that you can't put it on a brick wall" I hear you saying, and you are right, but the construction of a brick wall and a suit of armor are not the same.
I will remind you that you don't need to put this on over the top of armor
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Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
What happens is that the object is not intended to do that. Designers can't cover every occurrence a player can have. I say this because we players should understand the spirit of the rules, and work with that.
As a side note, one is not more creative by trying to exploit design holes, but when working with the limitations derived from the spirit of the rules. In any area of life, creativity shines especially in limitations, not in absolute freedom as some seem to believe.
"Solid Surface" - A surface that is solid. Being a solid is a state of matter, my skin is solid, my bones are solid, silk is solid, I can attach this to anything so long as it is not completely a liquid, gas, or some other state of matter like plasma.
Even though we're long past the boundary of common sense, let's imagine (incorrectly) that you could define your skin as a surface:
This fine black cloth, soft as silk, is folded up to the dimensions of a handkerchief. It unfolds into a circular sheet 6 feet in diameter.
You can use an action to unfold a portable hole and place it on or against a solid surface, whereupon the portable hole creates an extradimensional hole 10 feet deep. The cylindrical space within the hole exists on a different plane, so it can’t be used to create open passages. Any creature inside an open portable hole can exit the hole by climbing out of it.
So you wrap yourself in the Portable Hole and... you no longer exist because you have been replaced by the extradimensional hole. But you can exit it by climbing out of it.
Whilst in the extradimensional space, you are no longer in contact with the material plane; you cannot move, or take actions on the material plane, because you are in the hole and removed from the material plane.
You can use an action to close a portable hole by taking hold of the edges of the cloth and folding it up. Folding the cloth closes the hole, and any creatures or objects within remain in the extradimensional space.
Please explain how you can wrap the portable hole around something without folding it in any way. If the hole is not laid flat against something, then there is a fold. This is a simple definition, that has to be ignored if you were to try to wrap it around anything. So the hole does not function unless it is fully unfolded and laid out flat against a flat surface.
No matter what’s in it, the hole weighs next to nothing.
Even if you could create the hole by wrapping yourself in it (which you can't), you would then be weightless, and the hole - having no stability around it - would collapse.
So you wrap yourself in the Portable Hole and... you no longer exist because you have been replaced by the extradimensional hole. But you can exit it by climbing out of it.
I'm not sure that this necessarily follows; an extra-dimensional space doesn't exist on the prime material plane, so it doesn't replace something that's already there, and things that are already there do not end up inside it.
For example, if you place it on an upper floor then it doesn't intersect the floor below, if you go under where the hole is and look up you'll just see an ordinary ceiling, however when you go to the upper floor where the hole is you'll see a hole in the floor leading into the extra-dimensional space. Basically the interior of the hole only exists from the side where the hole actually is.
So if you were somehow able to place it upon a person on the prime material plane, the person would still be on the material plane, you just wouldn't be able to see them because all you'd see is the hole (and its own interior space), but for all intents and purposes the person still exists. The person is not inside the hole, they're where the hole appears to be.
If you've ever seen Doctor Who it functions like the door into the TARDIS; if you step through the door you end up inside the (larger) interior space, but if you walk around the exterior of the TARDIS you never encounter it.
To think of it in normal terms; if you placed large a bowl (open side up) on top of your head, you are not inside the bowl, but someone looking at you from above can no longer see you, only the bowl (and its interior). It's one of those things that's a bit weird to get your head around logistically.
Not that I disagree with your conclusion; I definitely don't think you can put the hole on a person though, they're not a surface you can "place" a circle onto, you'd be wrapping (and folding) it as you say.
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Here's another interesting option - can you cut up a portable hole?
In cloth form I suspect so, but it wouldn't work any more.
but what if you slap it onto a sheet of steel, then turn the sheet of steel over and cut it up, and then shape the steel with the hole-side facing outwards into a suit of armour?
would the hole survive the cut? personally I'd have it detach itself as soon as the metal was no longer a single surface, but what do you al lthink?
would the hole survive the cut? personally I'd have it detach itself as soon as the metal was no longer a single surface, but what do you al lthink?
I don't think this would work; the portable hole is fabric, and the fact that you can grab the edges to fold it suggests that the fabric is still there when the hole is active. In other words, the hole isn't on the surface on the object, the fabric is, and the actual hole is part of the fabric itself. So if you cut through the object and separate it, you'd just cause the fabric to no longer be flat, causing it to fold. For this interpretation, if you imagine the fabric as red but with one black side (which becomes the hole) then once placed on a surface you'd still see a ring of red around the edge, where you can grab it to fold it.
Of course it's a magical item so it's never quite as simple as that, as you can also place it on a vertical surface for example, but I generally interpret that to mean that the fabric is capable of sticking when "placed" in a meaningful way (so hurling it at a wall might not count, it might just slide off).
If instead we interpreted it to mean that where the fabric contacts the surface becomes an actual hole in the surface itself, then I would probably argue that the surface can't be completely cut. If you imagine a cube with a circular hole cut through it, to cut both the object and hole in half you would need to cut both the exterior and interior surfaces of the object before it's completely in half. For an object with a portable hole placed upon it, that would mean you would also need to cut through the interior of the extra-dimensional space itself, which would either be impossible, or require some kind of artefact or high level magic and destroy the portable hole entirely, otherwise the opening edge would keep the object together (as it would in a weird way be structural to that object). Of course if you cut all but the interior surface the object would be weak as hell, so it would probably deform and cause the hole to fold and close, depending how folded you rule it needs to be before that happens (e.g- is it enough just to crease it)?
That's just my thinking on it anyway. It makes for a fun thought experiment!
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Who said that you have to wear a portable hole over a suit of armor? Who says you can't just make a 1 piece suit designed to wear it? Also portable holes don't create a hole in whatever you put it on, it's a portal to an extradimensional space, just like a bag of holding. That doesn't mean this has no weaknesses though, as if you tried to pick anything up it would fall into the hole, and spell you attempt to cast through the fabric could damage it. This isn't broken, as you can't attack other than trying to jump on someone to trap them in the hole.
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
Basically what you are saying is 'if you allow it, it's doable' in which case you are right.
There are many reasons why what you have said won't work as others have mentioned. If there is any overlap the cloth either doesn't function or destroys itself, the use of the word "solid" having multiple interpretations as an example. There is a strategy for decerning the truth of things used in problem-solving called Occams Razor which states that the best answer is almost always the simplest solution (I acknowledge that assuming everything can be determined via Occams razor is a logical fallacy but still) and given there is no precedent to allow the portable hole to be armor and the number of exceptions you have to make to allow it to be I'd have to say it's impossible.
However as a dm if you want to allow people to have a custom set of armor made of a single piece of metal the perfect size for the portable hole that wouldn't allow them to move, see, or do other practical things then that's fine. Your fun doesn't threaten my fun. Honestly, it sounds pretty funny and has inspired a little side quest for my players...
It should be possible to design a portable hole to have other dimensions - as in, a different size and/or shape. Say, so that it matches a tower shield.
The argument here that I agree with is this: The surface needs to be flat. The hole doesn't open until it's flat against some single surface - could be the sail of a ship, or the timbers of the deck, or the side of a mountain. But once it's flat against a solid surface, it opens. If you lift the edge a bit, it closes.
So stick it on a shield. Climb in, make it a pit trap (then come back out again, of course). Go around shield bashing dudes into that on the battlefield, strike terror into all who see. Sure, it'll be somewhat weird and inconvenient whenever someone survives and climbs back out, hiding in your shield while reaching over to punch you in the face.
But that's still an awesome image - to me, at least =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Personally, I think the item description is lacking and left open to interpretation. Skin is a solid surface so go naked and just wear the portable hole. At least in the context of I hope many GMs, that should be a joke. Have a single surfaced cloak between the many surfaced armour and the "underside" of the portable hole.
I think if the item description contained words such as "predominantly flat" or perhaps "stationary" and things like that, it could clarify matters. In the meantime:
It's a hole. It does hole stuff. It has to be unfolded and placed on a solid surface. If any part is not unfolded on a solid surface it doesn't open. When open it is a hole like any other hole. It is it's own extrademional plane. That gives it it's own gravity to the prospective of the the opening. The opening is up and the bottom is down. Objects placed in the hole conform to it's gravity well. 6x10 is about 245 cubic feet maybe more. If you fill it with water you have to pump, scoop, or siphon the water out. If you place it on a surface that's uneven the exradementional hole is still 6×10. It is listed as utility and container, It is not armor, a vehicle, food, or a weapon. The only rule that can change it to a weapon is the rules for improvised weapon. You can push some one in the hole, close the hole, and suffocate them. This would be no different than pushing them in a standard hole, covering the top, and suffocating them. I see a lot of opportunities for abuse. But if you call it a hole, give it is up and it's down, and don't allow deviation you should have no issues. I believe this was meant for stowage of loot and gear, not player jackassery.
i could see a custom made shield with the portable hole spell cast on it.
Going along with the portable basic description I would say the hole created is similar to the basic hole. The Port hole is 20'diam 20'deep so any hole made with a shield would only be the diameter or size of the shield and only as deep as the diameter/size.
They would pretty much be quirky bags of holding at that point. But what if you placed some type of tentacled creature inside so it could reach out and attack your foe. Or a gelatinous cube of some type to eat your foes weapons.
Ehh, i mean as a DM i would not allow this if a player tried this on the fly, maybe if they talked with me outside of a campagin and explained their thinking beacuse this just HURTs my brain to think about, but it would likely be abused, so it would be a No for me
The hole would be so big that it would cover most of the character, likely obstructing their vision
also it has to be on a solid object, and i have a feeling that it cant be on a moving or living thing
Now dont get all nealdegrease tyson on me and say "But everything is moving all the time", you know what i mean
BUT UGGG I HAVE A MAJOR HEADAKE NOW THINKING ABOUT IT, WITH THIS RULING CAN IT BE CAST ON A SHIP, WHAT ABOUT SAND I need some coffee
On the other hand, it doesn't have to weigh much at all. Have two hinged halfcircles with a sheet strapped across - unfold your shield of portable hole and go to town.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
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A Portable Hole is a 6' diameter circle when unfolded. It is fairly obvious that RAI, a "solid surface" is intended to mean a wall, floor, or some other kind of flat area, but if we want to push the rules into semantic terminology then RAW, you still cannot use a Portable Hole this way.
It takes the whole 6' diamater circle to be pressed on or against a solid surface - note: surface, not surfaces - and then 1 action to create the extradimensional hole. The only way you can interact, RAW, is by spending an action to unfold the hole against a solid surface and creating a hole. There are no other options given.
Because it requires one surface, and it needs to be 6' in diameter, the only type of armour that you could attach to this would be a 6 foot diameter shield carried by a giant. A suit of armour is composed of many different surfaces, not a singular surface.
This will give precisely +2 AC to the giant in the same way a regular shield would.
"Solid Surface" - A surface that is solid. Being a solid is a state of matter, my skin is solid, my bones are solid, silk is solid, I can attach this to anything so long as it is not completely a liquid, gas, or some other state of matter like plasma.
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A solid surface, singular. The armor is made of multiple solid surfaces.
"But a wall is made of multiple bricks, and no one would say that you can't put it on a brick wall" I hear you saying, and you are right, but the construction of a brick wall and a suit of armor are not the same.
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
I will remind you that you don't need to put this on over the top of armor
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
What happens is that the object is not intended to do that. Designers can't cover every occurrence a player can have. I say this because we players should understand the spirit of the rules, and work with that.
As a side note, one is not more creative by trying to exploit design holes, but when working with the limitations derived from the spirit of the rules.
In any area of life, creativity shines especially in limitations, not in absolute freedom as some seem to believe.
I will remind you that you don't need to convince us, you need to convince your DM. Who is unlikely to be more receptive than we are.
Even though we're long past the boundary of common sense, let's imagine (incorrectly) that you could define your skin as a surface:
So you wrap yourself in the Portable Hole and... you no longer exist because you have been replaced by the extradimensional hole. But you can exit it by climbing out of it.
Whilst in the extradimensional space, you are no longer in contact with the material plane; you cannot move, or take actions on the material plane, because you are in the hole and removed from the material plane.
Please explain how you can wrap the portable hole around something without folding it in any way. If the hole is not laid flat against something, then there is a fold. This is a simple definition, that has to be ignored if you were to try to wrap it around anything. So the hole does not function unless it is fully unfolded and laid out flat against a flat surface.
Even if you could create the hole by wrapping yourself in it (which you can't), you would then be weightless, and the hole - having no stability around it - would collapse.
I'm not sure that this necessarily follows; an extra-dimensional space doesn't exist on the prime material plane, so it doesn't replace something that's already there, and things that are already there do not end up inside it.
For example, if you place it on an upper floor then it doesn't intersect the floor below, if you go under where the hole is and look up you'll just see an ordinary ceiling, however when you go to the upper floor where the hole is you'll see a hole in the floor leading into the extra-dimensional space. Basically the interior of the hole only exists from the side where the hole actually is.
So if you were somehow able to place it upon a person on the prime material plane, the person would still be on the material plane, you just wouldn't be able to see them because all you'd see is the hole (and its own interior space), but for all intents and purposes the person still exists. The person is not inside the hole, they're where the hole appears to be.
If you've ever seen Doctor Who it functions like the door into the TARDIS; if you step through the door you end up inside the (larger) interior space, but if you walk around the exterior of the TARDIS you never encounter it.
To think of it in normal terms; if you placed large a bowl (open side up) on top of your head, you are not inside the bowl, but someone looking at you from above can no longer see you, only the bowl (and its interior). It's one of those things that's a bit weird to get your head around logistically.
Not that I disagree with your conclusion; I definitely don't think you can put the hole on a person though, they're not a surface you can "place" a circle onto, you'd be wrapping (and folding) it as you say.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Here's another interesting option - can you cut up a portable hole?
In cloth form I suspect so, but it wouldn't work any more.
but what if you slap it onto a sheet of steel, then turn the sheet of steel over and cut it up, and then shape the steel with the hole-side facing outwards into a suit of armour?
would the hole survive the cut? personally I'd have it detach itself as soon as the metal was no longer a single surface, but what do you al lthink?
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I don't think this would work; the portable hole is fabric, and the fact that you can grab the edges to fold it suggests that the fabric is still there when the hole is active. In other words, the hole isn't on the surface on the object, the fabric is, and the actual hole is part of the fabric itself. So if you cut through the object and separate it, you'd just cause the fabric to no longer be flat, causing it to fold. For this interpretation, if you imagine the fabric as red but with one black side (which becomes the hole) then once placed on a surface you'd still see a ring of red around the edge, where you can grab it to fold it.
Of course it's a magical item so it's never quite as simple as that, as you can also place it on a vertical surface for example, but I generally interpret that to mean that the fabric is capable of sticking when "placed" in a meaningful way (so hurling it at a wall might not count, it might just slide off).
If instead we interpreted it to mean that where the fabric contacts the surface becomes an actual hole in the surface itself, then I would probably argue that the surface can't be completely cut. If you imagine a cube with a circular hole cut through it, to cut both the object and hole in half you would need to cut both the exterior and interior surfaces of the object before it's completely in half. For an object with a portable hole placed upon it, that would mean you would also need to cut through the interior of the extra-dimensional space itself, which would either be impossible, or require some kind of artefact or high level magic and destroy the portable hole entirely, otherwise the opening edge would keep the object together (as it would in a weird way be structural to that object). Of course if you cut all but the interior surface the object would be weak as hell, so it would probably deform and cause the hole to fold and close, depending how folded you rule it needs to be before that happens (e.g- is it enough just to crease it)?
That's just my thinking on it anyway. It makes for a fun thought experiment!
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Who said that you have to wear a portable hole over a suit of armor? Who says you can't just make a 1 piece suit designed to wear it? Also portable holes don't create a hole in whatever you put it on, it's a portal to an extradimensional space, just like a bag of holding. That doesn't mean this has no weaknesses though, as if you tried to pick anything up it would fall into the hole, and spell you attempt to cast through the fabric could damage it. This isn't broken, as you can't attack other than trying to jump on someone to trap them in the hole.
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
Basically what you are saying is 'if you allow it, it's doable' in which case you are right.
There are many reasons why what you have said won't work as others have mentioned. If there is any overlap the cloth either doesn't function or destroys itself, the use of the word "solid" having multiple interpretations as an example. There is a strategy for decerning the truth of things used in problem-solving called Occams Razor which states that the best answer is almost always the simplest solution (I acknowledge that assuming everything can be determined via Occams razor is a logical fallacy but still) and given there is no precedent to allow the portable hole to be armor and the number of exceptions you have to make to allow it to be I'd have to say it's impossible.
However as a dm if you want to allow people to have a custom set of armor made of a single piece of metal the perfect size for the portable hole that wouldn't allow them to move, see, or do other practical things then that's fine. Your fun doesn't threaten my fun. Honestly, it sounds pretty funny and has inspired a little side quest for my players...
Edit: Typos from phone
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
It should be possible to design a portable hole to have other dimensions - as in, a different size and/or shape. Say, so that it matches a tower shield.
The argument here that I agree with is this: The surface needs to be flat. The hole doesn't open until it's flat against some single surface - could be the sail of a ship, or the timbers of the deck, or the side of a mountain. But once it's flat against a solid surface, it opens. If you lift the edge a bit, it closes.
So stick it on a shield. Climb in, make it a pit trap (then come back out again, of course). Go around shield bashing dudes into that on the battlefield, strike terror into all who see. Sure, it'll be somewhat weird and inconvenient whenever someone survives and climbs back out, hiding in your shield while reaching over to punch you in the face.
But that's still an awesome image - to me, at least =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Personally, I think the item description is lacking and left open to interpretation.
Skin is a solid surface so go naked and just wear the portable hole. At least in the context of I hope many GMs, that should be a joke. Have a single surfaced cloak between the many surfaced armour and the "underside" of the portable hole.
I think if the item description contained words such as "predominantly flat" or perhaps "stationary" and things like that, it could clarify matters. In the meantime:
ask your GM!
It's a hole. It does hole stuff. It has to be unfolded and placed on a solid surface. If any part is not unfolded on a solid surface it doesn't open. When open it is a hole like any other hole. It is it's own extrademional plane. That gives it it's own gravity to the prospective of the the opening. The opening is up and the bottom is down. Objects placed in the hole conform to it's gravity well. 6x10 is about 245 cubic feet maybe more. If you fill it with water you have to pump, scoop, or siphon the water out. If you place it on a surface that's uneven the exradementional hole is still 6×10. It is listed as utility and container, It is not armor, a vehicle, food, or a weapon. The only rule that can change it to a weapon is the rules for improvised weapon. You can push some one in the hole, close the hole, and suffocate them. This would be no different than pushing them in a standard hole, covering the top, and suffocating them. I see a lot of opportunities for abuse. But if you call it a hole, give it is up and it's down, and don't allow deviation you should have no issues. I believe this was meant for stowage of loot and gear, not player jackassery.
i could see a custom made shield with the portable hole spell cast on it.
Going along with the portable basic description I would say the hole created is similar to the basic hole. The Port hole is 20'diam 20'deep so any hole made with a shield would only be the diameter or size of the shield and only as deep as the diameter/size.
They would pretty much be quirky bags of holding at that point. But what if you placed some type of tentacled creature inside so it could reach out and attack your foe. Or a gelatinous cube of some type to eat your foes weapons.
Ehh, i mean as a DM i would not allow this if a player tried this on the fly, maybe if they talked with me outside of a campagin and explained their thinking beacuse this just HURTs my brain to think about, but it would likely be abused, so it would be a No for me
The hole would be so big that it would cover most of the character, likely obstructing their vision
also it has to be on a solid object, and i have a feeling that it cant be on a moving or living thing
Now dont get all nealdegrease tyson on me and say "But everything is moving all the time", you know what i mean
BUT UGGG I HAVE A MAJOR HEADAKE NOW THINKING ABOUT IT, WITH THIS RULING CAN IT BE CAST ON A SHIP, WHAT ABOUT SAND
I need some coffee
A 6 foot diameter shield is hugeangous.
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On the other hand, it doesn't have to weigh much at all. Have two hinged halfcircles with a sheet strapped across - unfold your shield of portable hole and go to town.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.