I spent some time last night read the new race info from MTM that my GM had posted for his game. Looking at the bugbear I think it is very powerful compared to the other rewrites with reach and the surprise attack abilities and if I was running a game I would give players of other races something to balance it out or remove it from the bugbear race.
Honestly, same. As much as I'm having fun figuring out how to cheese out this build, if I was DMing a game and someone wanted to play as a Bugbear I would limit it to triggering only a single time each combat. 2d6 of damage is nothing to sneeze at, and the race is pretty stacked with features as well, so it's not like the Bugbear player is going to be at a disadvantage compared to everyone else at the table.
I agree and I wouldn’t be surprised to see an errata to make it once on your turn you get the extra 2d6 if they haven’t taken a turn yet. I would do this before banning the bugbear altogether.
I agree I would not ban the bugbear (unless it did not fit my game or story I was trying to tell) but I think they are very strong without that ability compared to other races I have seen and played. In general I was not really taken by any of the races presented in MtM and would prefer the other races my GM has allowed us to play.
Note: Creating rules and designing new rules is often not as easy as it seems.
Is there another race/monster that has an ability like this?
I think I understand on what the author is trying to do, provide the race with a form of sneak attack that triggers in specific situations. For some reason it works with physical and magical attacks and even with inferior attacks (for example a fist doing 1+STR Mod damage is affected just like a Great Sword 2d6+STR Mod damage). So to me it seems more like a sneak attack damage idea (special knowledge, craftiness or special skill) vs a rage idea (Strength and or emotion based idea).
So what I think I would do is test out if simply giving the bugbear race advantage on damage rolls (I think I would limit it to physical attacks, ie base weapon damage not including extra things such as flame/frost/elemental/poison/etc) in the situations presented in the ability. Why? Well advantage/disadvantage is a core feature of 5e so you are not creating anything new, and the mechanic in this case simply says in the first round the bugbear race has a greater chance of dealing maximum base weapon damage and not any special extra damage.
I spent some time last night read the new race info from MTM that my GM had posted for his game. Looking at the bugbear I think it is very powerful compared to the other rewrites with reach and the surprise attack abilities and if I was running a game I would give players of other races something to balance it out or remove it from the bugbear race.
Honestly, same. As much as I'm having fun figuring out how to cheese out this build, if I was DMing a game and someone wanted to play as a Bugbear I would limit it to triggering only a single time each combat. 2d6 of damage is nothing to sneeze at, and the race is pretty stacked with features as well, so it's not like the Bugbear player is going to be at a disadvantage compared to everyone else at the table.
Given the way the feature is written, I'd rule that each creature can only take the extra 2d6 once per combat. So you can still use it multiple times if you have multiple attacks, just not against the same target multiple times. Which is still kind of ridiculous, but it least has some sort of limit
Surprise Attack. If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn’t taken a turn yet in the current combat.
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Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ooh, I like that idea. I always enjoy rules that encourage creative play... so with that change a Bugbear player would have to think strategically at the start of combat... do you use all your extra attacks to target different creatures? Or if there's one priority target do you forego that extra damage just to remain focused on one target.... if you're not playing a ranged build, you either need to find some way to move between targets or position yourself... the Long Limbed feature pairs well with this, now that I'm thinking about it. Plus the odds of it being completely busted go down, since you're not always going to roll higher initiative than everything else on the board, so it's not like you can still dish out this damage to huge crowds reliably.
I think that is a good option to test and see how it plays in your game.
TransmorpherDDS,
The rule by AntonSirius does require some more thought about combat and I will lay out some options below.
HailRobonia,
Yes I will lay out an example below.
Having thought about how I would exploit or how a race that had these abilities would act in its day to day living, I thought of the following.
1) Race is an ambush race: The extra 2d6 is fairly significant damage (as the rule is written RAW), it is the same about of damage as a great sword and it applies to all attack type for some reason.
1a) What a race would do: A group of bugbears has this ability multiplied. So multiple bugbears if able to act from surprise or before others in the first round would trigger this extra damage.
1b) Bugbears and reach: The race has an extra 5' of reach so that allows the race to have more "people" attack a given target then a race with out reach. For a melee example have a number of bugbears with 1 H weapons in the 2 surrounding squares/hex's then bugbears with polearms in the next squares/hex's or if you use a missile/thrown/ranged spell example it gets potentially worse with every combatant getting the bonus (if they meat the criteria).
1c) A worse situation (if allowed by your combat rules) is all bugbears are reduced in size so there are 2 bugbears per square in melee combat.
I think the author was trying to provide a way for them to be ambushers but IMHO the ability to too much, I think an extra 1d6 is a bit much and as i said I think just allowing for advantage on their damage rolls would work best with my interpretation of the core rules.
What I would test:
1) Bugbear Adrenalin: A bugbears metabolism triggers giving them a surge when encountering a new opponent in combat, so the first round of combat with a new opponent (not one they have attacked before in the last 24 hours) the bugbear gets advantage on their first physical melee damage roll.
The above would trigger every new opponent for every combat and every new opponent and only applies to physical damage (in general I do not know why it would apply to spell/magical damage and I would exclude ranged attacks as well). This could be abused by a PC/NPC/etc simply attacking a new opponent every round and I think wording to limit that would need to be inserted into the rule (ie better wording then I have above).
The above is probably too powerful so then I would test, giving the ability a usage/day; probably equal to their proficiency bonus (as seems to be standard) or as per proficiency bonus + Con stat bonus (since my idea is based on biology of creature).
A group of bugbears has this ability multiplied. So multiple bugbears if able to act from surprise or before others in the first round would trigger this extra damage.
Keep in mind this new version of the ability is only for PCs. The "monster" version of bugbear didn't get changed
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I don't like the idea of giving them "Advantage on Damage Rolls" because that's not really a thing in 5e... it would be an entirely new ability. Not that there aren't examples of it or something similar in various abilities and features in the game (like Great Weapon Fighting, which allows rerolls of 1's and 2's in damage rolls), but it feels clunky and unexciting. I do think that the Bugbear feature needs to be nerfed in some way, as it's clearly way too powerful for something that can be done in every single combat at no cost to resources or action economy, but less-powerful version of the same ability is exciting and fun to me, but being able to reroll maybe 2 dice (more likely 1, unless you're playing as a Rogue) in the hopes of rolling slightly higher isn't. Plus needing to track, "did you encounter this guy in the past 24 hours" is a pain, and is the kind of thing that should be limited to much more impactful abilities.
Limiting it to weapon attacks does make sense to me. It's a much easier ability to cheese out when applying it to spells as well, since they have such a wider variety of potential impacts.
I know at the very least that I've been focused just on maximizing the number of attack rolls in a single round... I'm not surprised to learn that more clever and complicated builds can put this absolutely to shame, although the best possible damage builds generally assume some pretty generous prep-time or access to specific very rare or legendary items. I always appreciate the ones that can be done with just base class features.
A group of bugbears has this ability multiplied. So multiple bugbears if able to act from surprise or before others in the first round would trigger this extra damage.
Keep in mind this new version of the ability is only for PCs. The "monster" version of bugbear didn't get changed
Thanks for that info, I do not read the monster stuff unless the GM provides it (in general).
In general, I think that monster and PC base race stuff should be the same. IMHO it makes things more easy to remember and justify for GM's and players. My base reasoning is that simply because you wear a player pin on yourself should not mean you get a bunch of stuff that a normal member of your race does not.
I don't like the idea of giving them "Advantage on Damage Rolls" because that's not really a thing in 5e... it would be an entirely new ability. Not that there aren't examples of it or something similar in various abilities and features in the game (like Great Weapon Fighting, which allows rerolls of 1's and 2's in damage rolls), but it feels clunky and unexciting. I do think that the Bugbear feature needs to be nerfed in some way, as it's clearly way too powerful for something that can be done in every single combat at no cost to resources or action economy, but less-powerful version of the same ability is exciting and fun to me, but being able to reroll maybe 2 dice (more likely 1, unless you're playing as a Rogue) in the hopes of rolling slightly higher isn't. Plus needing to track, "did you encounter this guy in the past 24 hours" is a pain, and is the kind of thing that should be limited to much more impactful abilities.
Limiting it to weapon attacks does make sense to me. It's a much easier ability to cheese out when applying it to spells as well, since they have such a wider variety of potential impacts.
I was basing my idea on what are the core rules of 5e (from my perspective; advantage/disadvantage; simply rules and small mods).
If that does not work for you then I would propose getting a bonus to attack in specific situations. That way they have a greater chance to deal damage but not a greater chance to deal more damage or damage outside of the norm.
Other options off the top of my head:
1) Deal x2 Str bonus damage in specific situations, possibly a limited number of times per day.
2) a min of 1d6 sneak damage or backstab damage, note does not stack with any other type of sneak/backstab damage.
3) Use min damage idea from feats: ie a 1, 2 on a die roll becomes a 3 during the bugbear sneak attack.
Note: Again IMHO creating rules can be hard and seeing all the permutations even harder.
I don't like the idea of giving them "Advantage on Damage Rolls" because that's not really a thing in 5e... it would be an entirely new ability. Not that there aren't examples of it or something similar in various abilities and features in the game (like Great Weapon Fighting, which allows rerolls of 1's and 2's in damage rolls), but it feels clunky and unexciting. I do think that the Bugbear feature needs to be nerfed in some way, as it's clearly way too powerful for something that can be done in every single combat at no cost to resources or action economy, but less-powerful version of the same ability is exciting and fun to me, but being able to reroll maybe 2 dice (more likely 1, unless you're playing as a Rogue) in the hopes of rolling slightly higher isn't. Plus needing to track, "did you encounter this guy in the past 24 hours" is a pain, and is the kind of thing that should be limited to much more impactful abilities.
Limiting it to weapon attacks does make sense to me. It's a much easier ability to cheese out when applying it to spells as well, since they have such a wider variety of potential impacts.
Additional Thoughts:
1) Advantage/Disadvantage on damage: To me this is in line with advantage/disadvantage (A/D) being used in the core rules for attacks, skill rolls and saves (what I can think of off the top of my head right now). A/D IMHO is core to the game and one of the selling points of the game as it was presented to me multiple times.
2) Exciting: I agree dealing extra damage is more exciting but is it unbalancing based on the core rules + house rules you use.
3) You said the A/D damage idea is not presented in 5e, is additional damage +2d6 for a race present in the rules? (I apologize as I focus on being a player in 5e so I am not in the rules as deep as I am with other systems)
4) Tracking: This was simply a way to prevent a PC/NPC from engaging an opponent and then disengaging to get the bonus every other (or possibly every round if the wording presents the opportunity) round or every round if attacking another target. But it also preserves the idea that bugbear's can use the ability again on the same target in another combat.
5) General: IMHO As a game ages it get more difficult to have exciting mechanics without core rule changes.
6) Would changing the damage to 1d6 be better? IMHO yes but it still is a problem IMHO just not as big of a problem.
7) Would giving the race 1d6 sneak/backstab damage be an issue? Possibly as extra damage can be an issue when looking at preserving game balance (especially over the long run and with other rules that come down the line)
I think, of the ideas suggested, the one that has the most precedent is just adding a flat damage bonus instead of the 2d6, probably once per combat.
It makes me think of the change they made to Goblins in Multiverse... Fury of the Small was originally once-per-day you can add your level in damage to any one attack or spell once per day if the target is larger than you. However, in Multiverse they changed it so the Goblin can add damage equal to their proficiency bonus against larger creatures, but they can use it a number of times equal to their Proficiency Bonus.
I think taking that as a basis, and saying the Multiverse Bugbear can add damage equal to their Proficiency Bonus once per combat as part of an attack is a nice balance. Unlike a Goblin, they can't just use it when it's most useful... they must use it on the first round of combat or it's lost. They also must do it as part of an attack, whereas Fury of the Small can be added to practically anything that deals damage. So that would be a good balance, in my head... it's easier to use multiple times in a day, but it's harder to use it efficiently, since you're limited to the first person you can target at the start of combat.
If the person above numbers are correct, changing the max damage from around 520 to over 1000 is a big jump, so IMHO something should change to prevent power creep (unless power creep is needed).
I think asking the author what they were trying to do is important and if that can be done with the rules. So if they wanted to make bugbears efficient ambush attackers is it better adjusting the damage in some way or giving the attacker advantage or simply a bonus to attack. Providing a bonus to attack would not adjust the max damage in any way, just make it more likely the bugbear would hit (in most cases).
Adjusting the bonus to hit may not be as exciting but IMHO is much more likely to preserve game balance and prevent max damage creep.
Now, if 5e v2.0 comes out and they change a whole bunch of things then maybe the bugbear extra 2d6 would not be as big a deal.
I would be interested to see if just how many people decided to play the race now and why they decided to play the race now vs before the rule change.
Back to exploitation having the whole group be bugbears and in any situation where the rule applies means an extra 2d6 damage where it applies. That average is 7 points/attack (max 12, min 2) which does not seem like a lot in normal combat but IMHO that extra damage add's up and IIRC I heard most 5e combat lasts 3 rounds or less, so this ends combat sooner. Note, I have seen a lot of custom combat rules that can change how combat is enacted so I use the 3 rounds statement I saw here on D&DB and your game may be different.
If the person above numbers are correct, changing the max damage from around 520 to over 1000 is a big jump, so IMHO something should change to prevent power creep (unless power creep is needed).
The jump was from 768 to 1006. It involves a large number of stacking stupid tricks. There are other builds at similar totals that don't benefit as much from bugbear, most of the fighter-ish builds are only making 8-9 attacks. You can do a whole lot more if you have no-limit magic items.
If the person above numbers are correct, changing the max damage from around 520 to over 1000 is a big jump, so IMHO something should change to prevent power creep (unless power creep is needed).
The jump was from 768 to 1006. It involves a large number of stacking stupid tricks. There are other builds at similar totals that don't benefit as much from bugbear, most of the fighter-ish builds are only making 8-9 attacks. You can do a whole lot more if you have no-limit magic items.
Thanks for that info, so it is a jump of 238 (if my math is right after 1 cup of coffee) and I suspect involves multiple rolls of nat 20 to hit rolls and max die rolls for damage in a row (which if you want to geek out you could compute what is the chance of that happening, 1 in a million or more or less, I would guess it is a small chance of everything happening perfectly and generating the max result).
Having said that an extra 7 damage average per attack in a limited situation does not seem (could seem not to be) like allowing an offensive cantrip for a race that does or potentially does a lot more damage, unbalancing...but to me it is based on the core rules (not 3rd party and or house rules). I have read some 3rd party stuff that makes this seem to have a smaller impact but still IMHO it is an escalation of power or power creep that is not really called for.
I would like to state again, authors and or creators want their material to be used (and often in the manner they intend, ie embody good or evil, weak or strong). So I have found it is often good to have others from outside look at rules and options that have differing points of view.
Good Luck and I hope what ever you decide makes your game better.
“Thanks for that info, so it is a jump of 238 (if my math is right after 1 cup of coffee) and I suspect involves multiple rolls of nat 20 to hit rolls and max die rolls for damage in a row (which if you want to geek out you could compute what is the chance of that happening, 1 in a million or more or less, I would guess it is a small chance of everything happening perfectly and generating the max result). “
Actually it’s a lot worse than that. The longest streak like that I’ve seen was 10 rolls in a row of either a Nat 20 or Nat 1 as the DM called for. The odds of that are .05 to the 10th power or about 1 in 10 billion. Getting 10 Nat 20s in a row would be the same then getting max damage each time would be in the same ballpark so your talking about a something like a 1 in a sextillion chance to get that sort of damage. Fun to figure out what it could be but you can forget it ever happening more than once so useless to actually make the build.
As for number of attacks and damage about the best I can see as being reasonable would be a L3 Kensai/L17 fighter allowing you to use a battle axe or longsword as a 2 handed Kensai weapon with 3 attacks each followed by a flurry of blows 2 open hand attacks for each of your 3 Ki points then action surge for another 3 attacks followed by a single open hand attack from martial arts, followed by the second action surge for another 3 attacks followed by another 3 martial arts open hand attacks for a total of 21 attacks in 1 round doing an average of 9*5 (D10) + 11*2(D4) + 21*7 (2d6) or 45+22+147=214 damage average in round 1 (and 21 damage every later round).
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Honestly, same. As much as I'm having fun figuring out how to cheese out this build, if I was DMing a game and someone wanted to play as a Bugbear I would limit it to triggering only a single time each combat. 2d6 of damage is nothing to sneeze at, and the race is pretty stacked with features as well, so it's not like the Bugbear player is going to be at a disadvantage compared to everyone else at the table.
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I agree and I wouldn’t be surprised to see an errata to make it once on your turn you get the extra 2d6 if they haven’t taken a turn yet. I would do this before banning the bugbear altogether.
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I agree I would not ban the bugbear (unless it did not fit my game or story I was trying to tell) but I think they are very strong without that ability compared to other races I have seen and played. In general I was not really taken by any of the races presented in MtM and would prefer the other races my GM has allowed us to play.
Note: Creating rules and designing new rules is often not as easy as it seems.
Is there another race/monster that has an ability like this?
I think I understand on what the author is trying to do, provide the race with a form of sneak attack that triggers in specific situations. For some reason it works with physical and magical attacks and even with inferior attacks (for example a fist doing 1+STR Mod damage is affected just like a Great Sword 2d6+STR Mod damage). So to me it seems more like a sneak attack damage idea (special knowledge, craftiness or special skill) vs a rage idea (Strength and or emotion based idea).
So what I think I would do is test out if simply giving the bugbear race advantage on damage rolls (I think I would limit it to physical attacks, ie base weapon damage not including extra things such as flame/frost/elemental/poison/etc) in the situations presented in the ability. Why? Well advantage/disadvantage is a core feature of 5e so you are not creating anything new, and the mechanic in this case simply says in the first round the bugbear race has a greater chance of dealing maximum base weapon damage and not any special extra damage.
Given the way the feature is written, I'd rule that each creature can only take the extra 2d6 once per combat. So you can still use it multiple times if you have multiple attacks, just not against the same target multiple times. Which is still kind of ridiculous, but it least has some sort of limit
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ooh, I like that idea. I always enjoy rules that encourage creative play... so with that change a Bugbear player would have to think strategically at the start of combat... do you use all your extra attacks to target different creatures? Or if there's one priority target do you forego that extra damage just to remain focused on one target.... if you're not playing a ranged build, you either need to find some way to move between targets or position yourself... the Long Limbed feature pairs well with this, now that I'm thinking about it. Plus the odds of it being completely busted go down, since you're not always going to roll higher initiative than everything else on the board, so it's not like you can still dish out this damage to huge crowds reliably.
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Total boogeymen, able to hide under beds and in closets to sneak out and scare children.
/Just to harvest screams to power their city.
Sorry been away.
AntonSirius,
I think that is a good option to test and see how it plays in your game.
TransmorpherDDS,
The rule by AntonSirius does require some more thought about combat and I will lay out some options below.
HailRobonia,
Yes I will lay out an example below.
Having thought about how I would exploit or how a race that had these abilities would act in its day to day living, I thought of the following.
1) Race is an ambush race: The extra 2d6 is fairly significant damage (as the rule is written RAW), it is the same about of damage as a great sword and it applies to all attack type for some reason.
1a) What a race would do: A group of bugbears has this ability multiplied. So multiple bugbears if able to act from surprise or before others in the first round would trigger this extra damage.
1b) Bugbears and reach: The race has an extra 5' of reach so that allows the race to have more "people" attack a given target then a race with out reach. For a melee example have a number of bugbears with 1 H weapons in the 2 surrounding squares/hex's then bugbears with polearms in the next squares/hex's or if you use a missile/thrown/ranged spell example it gets potentially worse with every combatant getting the bonus (if they meat the criteria).
1c) A worse situation (if allowed by your combat rules) is all bugbears are reduced in size so there are 2 bugbears per square in melee combat.
I think the author was trying to provide a way for them to be ambushers but IMHO the ability to too much, I think an extra 1d6 is a bit much and as i said I think just allowing for advantage on their damage rolls would work best with my interpretation of the core rules.
What I would test:
1) Bugbear Adrenalin: A bugbears metabolism triggers giving them a surge when encountering a new opponent in combat, so the first round of combat with a new opponent (not one they have attacked before in the last 24 hours) the bugbear gets advantage on their first physical melee damage roll.
The above would trigger every new opponent for every combat and every new opponent and only applies to physical damage (in general I do not know why it would apply to spell/magical damage and I would exclude ranged attacks as well). This could be abused by a PC/NPC/etc simply attacking a new opponent every round and I think wording to limit that would need to be inserted into the rule (ie better wording then I have above).
The above is probably too powerful so then I would test, giving the ability a usage/day; probably equal to their proficiency bonus (as seems to be standard) or as per proficiency bonus + Con stat bonus (since my idea is based on biology of creature).
Keep in mind this new version of the ability is only for PCs. The "monster" version of bugbear didn't get changed
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I don't like the idea of giving them "Advantage on Damage Rolls" because that's not really a thing in 5e... it would be an entirely new ability. Not that there aren't examples of it or something similar in various abilities and features in the game (like Great Weapon Fighting, which allows rerolls of 1's and 2's in damage rolls), but it feels clunky and unexciting. I do think that the Bugbear feature needs to be nerfed in some way, as it's clearly way too powerful for something that can be done in every single combat at no cost to resources or action economy, but less-powerful version of the same ability is exciting and fun to me, but being able to reroll maybe 2 dice (more likely 1, unless you're playing as a Rogue) in the hopes of rolling slightly higher isn't. Plus needing to track, "did you encounter this guy in the past 24 hours" is a pain, and is the kind of thing that should be limited to much more impactful abilities.
Limiting it to weapon attacks does make sense to me. It's a much easier ability to cheese out when applying it to spells as well, since they have such a wider variety of potential impacts.
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I would note that the highest possible damaging builds thread has been over 500 for a while. You can exceed 1,000 average with a bugbear setup.
I know at the very least that I've been focused just on maximizing the number of attack rolls in a single round... I'm not surprised to learn that more clever and complicated builds can put this absolutely to shame, although the best possible damage builds generally assume some pretty generous prep-time or access to specific very rare or legendary items. I always appreciate the ones that can be done with just base class features.
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Thanks for that info, I do not read the monster stuff unless the GM provides it (in general).
In general, I think that monster and PC base race stuff should be the same. IMHO it makes things more easy to remember and justify for GM's and players. My base reasoning is that simply because you wear a player pin on yourself should not mean you get a bunch of stuff that a normal member of your race does not.
I was basing my idea on what are the core rules of 5e (from my perspective; advantage/disadvantage; simply rules and small mods).
If that does not work for you then I would propose getting a bonus to attack in specific situations. That way they have a greater chance to deal damage but not a greater chance to deal more damage or damage outside of the norm.
Other options off the top of my head:
1) Deal x2 Str bonus damage in specific situations, possibly a limited number of times per day.
2) a min of 1d6 sneak damage or backstab damage, note does not stack with any other type of sneak/backstab damage.
3) Use min damage idea from feats: ie a 1, 2 on a die roll becomes a 3 during the bugbear sneak attack.
Note: Again IMHO creating rules can be hard and seeing all the permutations even harder.
Additional Thoughts:
1) Advantage/Disadvantage on damage: To me this is in line with advantage/disadvantage (A/D) being used in the core rules for attacks, skill rolls and saves (what I can think of off the top of my head right now). A/D IMHO is core to the game and one of the selling points of the game as it was presented to me multiple times.
2) Exciting: I agree dealing extra damage is more exciting but is it unbalancing based on the core rules + house rules you use.
3) You said the A/D damage idea is not presented in 5e, is additional damage +2d6 for a race present in the rules? (I apologize as I focus on being a player in 5e so I am not in the rules as deep as I am with other systems)
4) Tracking: This was simply a way to prevent a PC/NPC from engaging an opponent and then disengaging to get the bonus every other (or possibly every round if the wording presents the opportunity) round or every round if attacking another target. But it also preserves the idea that bugbear's can use the ability again on the same target in another combat.
5) General: IMHO As a game ages it get more difficult to have exciting mechanics without core rule changes.
6) Would changing the damage to 1d6 be better? IMHO yes but it still is a problem IMHO just not as big of a problem.
7) Would giving the race 1d6 sneak/backstab damage be an issue? Possibly as extra damage can be an issue when looking at preserving game balance (especially over the long run and with other rules that come down the line)
Thanks
I think, of the ideas suggested, the one that has the most precedent is just adding a flat damage bonus instead of the 2d6, probably once per combat.
It makes me think of the change they made to Goblins in Multiverse... Fury of the Small was originally once-per-day you can add your level in damage to any one attack or spell once per day if the target is larger than you. However, in Multiverse they changed it so the Goblin can add damage equal to their proficiency bonus against larger creatures, but they can use it a number of times equal to their Proficiency Bonus.
I think taking that as a basis, and saying the Multiverse Bugbear can add damage equal to their Proficiency Bonus once per combat as part of an attack is a nice balance. Unlike a Goblin, they can't just use it when it's most useful... they must use it on the first round of combat or it's lost. They also must do it as part of an attack, whereas Fury of the Small can be added to practically anything that deals damage. So that would be a good balance, in my head... it's easier to use multiple times in a day, but it's harder to use it efficiently, since you're limited to the first person you can target at the start of combat.
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If the person above numbers are correct, changing the max damage from around 520 to over 1000 is a big jump, so IMHO something should change to prevent power creep (unless power creep is needed).
I think asking the author what they were trying to do is important and if that can be done with the rules. So if they wanted to make bugbears efficient ambush attackers is it better adjusting the damage in some way or giving the attacker advantage or simply a bonus to attack. Providing a bonus to attack would not adjust the max damage in any way, just make it more likely the bugbear would hit (in most cases).
Adjusting the bonus to hit may not be as exciting but IMHO is much more likely to preserve game balance and prevent max damage creep.
Now, if 5e v2.0 comes out and they change a whole bunch of things then maybe the bugbear extra 2d6 would not be as big a deal.
I would be interested to see if just how many people decided to play the race now and why they decided to play the race now vs before the rule change.
Back to exploitation having the whole group be bugbears and in any situation where the rule applies means an extra 2d6 damage where it applies. That average is 7 points/attack (max 12, min 2) which does not seem like a lot in normal combat but IMHO that extra damage add's up and IIRC I heard most 5e combat lasts 3 rounds or less, so this ends combat sooner. Note, I have seen a lot of custom combat rules that can change how combat is enacted so I use the 3 rounds statement I saw here on D&DB and your game may be different.
The jump was from 768 to 1006. It involves a large number of stacking stupid tricks. There are other builds at similar totals that don't benefit as much from bugbear, most of the fighter-ish builds are only making 8-9 attacks. You can do a whole lot more if you have no-limit magic items.
Thanks for that info, so it is a jump of 238 (if my math is right after 1 cup of coffee) and I suspect involves multiple rolls of nat 20 to hit rolls and max die rolls for damage in a row (which if you want to geek out you could compute what is the chance of that happening, 1 in a million or more or less, I would guess it is a small chance of everything happening perfectly and generating the max result).
Having said that an extra 7 damage average per attack in a limited situation does not seem (could seem not to be) like allowing an offensive cantrip for a race that does or potentially does a lot more damage, unbalancing...but to me it is based on the core rules (not 3rd party and or house rules). I have read some 3rd party stuff that makes this seem to have a smaller impact but still IMHO it is an escalation of power or power creep that is not really called for.
I would like to state again, authors and or creators want their material to be used (and often in the manner they intend, ie embody good or evil, weak or strong). So I have found it is often good to have others from outside look at rules and options that have differing points of view.
Good Luck and I hope what ever you decide makes your game better.
“Thanks for that info, so it is a jump of 238 (if my math is right after 1 cup of coffee) and I suspect involves multiple rolls of nat 20 to hit rolls and max die rolls for damage in a row (which if you want to geek out you could compute what is the chance of that happening, 1 in a million or more or less, I would guess it is a small chance of everything happening perfectly and generating the max result). “
Actually it’s a lot worse than that. The longest streak like that I’ve seen was 10 rolls in a row of either a Nat 20 or Nat 1 as the DM called for. The odds of that are .05 to the 10th power or about 1 in 10 billion. Getting 10 Nat 20s in a row would be the same then getting max damage each time would be in the same ballpark so your talking about a something like a 1 in a sextillion chance to get that sort of damage. Fun to figure out what it could be but you can forget it ever happening more than once so useless to actually make the build.
As for number of attacks and damage about the best I can see as being reasonable would be a L3 Kensai/L17 fighter allowing you to use a battle axe or longsword as a 2 handed Kensai weapon with 3 attacks each followed by a flurry of blows 2 open hand attacks for each of your 3 Ki points then action surge for another 3 attacks followed by a single open hand attack from martial arts, followed by the second action surge for another 3 attacks followed by another 3 martial arts open hand attacks for a total of 21 attacks in 1 round doing an average of 9*5 (D10) + 11*2(D4) + 21*7 (2d6) or 45+22+147=214 damage average in round 1 (and 21 damage every later round).
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