Does anyone know of builds that have a reliable ranged spell attack and melee (spell or not) attack? Basically a gish build that is not a hexadin. Thanks
I never really tried it, but you could use aberrant dragonmark. It boosts con, and gives you a cantrip that uses con as your casting stat. You’d be mostly a melee type, but you could toss around a fire bolt, and with a pretty good con, you might actually hit with it sometimes.
Eldritch Knight Fighter. Much more melee than caster, and the spell progression is s l o w.
Arcane Trickster Rogue. Similar setup to the EK above, just more... roguish. Rogue-gish.
Bladesinger Wizard. Their Extra Attack lets you replace one attack with a cantrip.
Armorer Artificer. Guardian mode lets you punch with thunder gauntlets, and the subclass spells are mostly blasty things.
Battle Smith Artificer. Though this is way more melee-reliant.
Bard has the colleges of Swords and Valor, but both of those feel like they're lacking on the melee side IMO.
Not really meant as a gish, but if you just want a spell attack, the Glory Paladin gets Guiding Bolt.
Also not really a gish, but the Arcana Cleric has easy access to the blade cantrips, and is durable enough for at least occasional melee.
For multiclassing:
Sorcadin is pretty nice, but takes a while to come online. I have one at Paladin 6 / Sorcerer 3 that's feeling strong now (oath of vengeance / aberrant mind).
War Cleric + Hunter or Gloom Stalker Ranger can also do some fun things, like Divine Favor + 3 attacks.
If you rolled the stats to support it, you can multiclass Bladesinger 6 with Hunter Ranger 3, on a Fizban's dragonborn, for a truly ridiculous attack action. Booming Blade, a regular weapon attack, and a breath weapon, all as one action. And that still leaves the possibility of a bonus action attack, depending on what weapons or feats you're using.
Artificers are good for that. An Armorer or Battlesmith can use their Intelligence for melee attacks and their ranged magic attacks, so you'll be wanting to get your Intelligence to 20 first, then your Constitution.
Druids are also really good for that. Moon and Spores are both really good for tanking, Land gives you more spells available, including some that Druids don't typically get, and Dreams gives some really nice abilities that are good for exploration campaigns. Druids have multiple cantrips that allow them to use their Wisdom Modifier to make melee attacks, and they're full casters, so you'll be wanting to get your Wisdom to 20 first, then your Constitution.
Hexblade 1, Sword Bard X. Probably the best Gish around. If you can accept less spellcasting, the already mentioned Battle Smith is a nice bet.
If you want something really crazy and more focused on Melee then Sword Bard 3 (at least), Barbarian (at least 2, preferebly 3 for Bear Totem) and Paladin 6 will give you a real monster. Your saves will be good because of Aura of Protection, your skills will be pretty good due to Jack of All Trades, you have spells from Bard, survivability from Barbarian and you get two Fighting styles so if you get Defence from Paladin and Dueling from Sword Bard you can do some real damage with a longsword and shield. If you roll well or invest an ASI in Dex you can easily have an AC of 19 (without magic items) and you'll do 1D8 +Rage Bonus +Strength Bonus +Dueling +Smite +Flourish Damage. Reckless attack for advantage to make it easier to hit and double your crit chance, not bad if I may say so. B)
HexBard. 1-2 levels of Hexblade Warlock, rest of the levels into Swords Bard.
Could you explain?
The biggest selling point of this build is being able to use CHA for all your offensive needs. Start Hexblade Warlock at level 1 preferably with Custom Lineage or V Human so that you can start with the Warcaster feat to allow you to cast and fight even if your hands are full. This gives you access to the powerful Eldritch Blast cantrip as well as medium armor and shield proficiencies on top of being able to attack using 1 handed weapons with your CHA stat. This makes stats management a lot easier than other gishes than may require them to improve both a weapon attack stat (STR/DEX) and their spell casting stat.
From level 2 onwards you can focus on leveling College of Swords Bard to pick up extra attack and Blade Flourishes to make you a formidable close quarters combatant. All the while having access to the spellcasting capabilities of a full caster (Bard).
The optional 2nd level in Warlock is to gain access to a couple of invocations like the powerful Agonizing Blast. But 1 level is all you really need. A 1 level dip also ensures you do not fall too far behind in terms of spell progression compared to a full caster.
HexBard. 1-2 levels of Hexblade Warlock, rest of the levels into Swords Bard.
Could you explain?
The biggest selling point of this build is being able to use CHA for all your offensive needs. Start Hexblade Warlock at level 1 preferably with Custom Lineage or V Human so that you can start with the Warcaster feat to allow you to cast and fight even if your hands are full. This gives you access to the powerful Eldritch Blast cantrip as well as medium armor and shield proficiencies on top of being able to attack using 1 handed weapons with your CHA stat. This makes stats management a lot easier than other gishes than may require them to improve both a weapon attack stat (STR/DEX) and their spell casting stat.
From level 2 onwards you can focus on leveling College of Swords Bard to pick up extra attack and Blade Flourishes to make you a formidable close quarters combatant. All the while having access to the spellcasting capabilities of a full caster (Bard).
The optional 2nd level in Warlock is to gain access to a couple of invocations like the powerful Agonizing Blast. But 1 level is all you really need. A 1 level dip also ensures you do not fall too far behind in terms of spell progression compared to a full caster.
HexBard. 1-2 levels of Hexblade Warlock, rest of the levels into Swords Bard.
Could you explain?
The biggest selling point of this build is being able to use CHA for all your offensive needs. Start Hexblade Warlock at level 1 preferably with Custom Lineage or V Human so that you can start with the Warcaster feat to allow you to cast and fight even if your hands are full. This gives you access to the powerful Eldritch Blast cantrip as well as medium armor and shield proficiencies on top of being able to attack using 1 handed weapons with your CHA stat. This makes stats management a lot easier than other gishes than may require them to improve both a weapon attack stat (STR/DEX) and their spell casting stat.
From level 2 onwards you can focus on leveling College of Swords Bard to pick up extra attack and Blade Flourishes to make you a formidable close quarters combatant. All the while having access to the spellcasting capabilities of a full caster (Bard).
The optional 2nd level in Warlock is to gain access to a couple of invocations like the powerful Agonizing Blast. But 1 level is all you really need. A 1 level dip also ensures you do not fall too far behind in terms of spell progression compared to a full caster.
No point in getting War caster since at Sword Bard 3 you get to use your weapon as an arcane focus. Just another perk of this build. :D
No point in getting War caster since at Sword Bard 3 you get to use your weapon as an arcane focus. Just another perk of this build. :D
A Gish really needs help with con saves to keep concentration. This can come through resiliant con there are pros and cons of each, Warcaster is relatvely better at lower levels so if you are getting a feat at level 1 warcaster helps much more than resilianrt con, by level 8 resiliant is probably the better of the two (if you don't need the second feature or warcaster) a case can be made for a gish to take both.
I would also note that RAW while a swords bard with a sword in one hand and a shield in the other (or duel wielding) can cast a spel with both somantic and material components they can not cast a spell with somantic components but no material component.
HexBard. 1-2 levels of Hexblade Warlock, rest of the levels into Swords Bard.
Could you explain?
The biggest selling point of this build is being able to use CHA for all your offensive needs. Start Hexblade Warlock at level 1 preferably with Custom Lineage or V Human so that you can start with the Warcaster feat to allow you to cast and fight even if your hands are full. This gives you access to the powerful Eldritch Blast cantrip as well as medium armor and shield proficiencies on top of being able to attack using 1 handed weapons with your CHA stat. This makes stats management a lot easier than other gishes than may require them to improve both a weapon attack stat (STR/DEX) and their spell casting stat.
From level 2 onwards you can focus on leveling College of Swords Bard to pick up extra attack and Blade Flourishes to make you a formidable close quarters combatant. All the while having access to the spellcasting capabilities of a full caster (Bard).
The optional 2nd level in Warlock is to gain access to a couple of invocations like the powerful Agonizing Blast. But 1 level is all you really need. A 1 level dip also ensures you do not fall too far behind in terms of spell progression compared to a full caster.
No point in getting War caster since at Sword Bard 3 you get to use your weapon as an arcane focus. Just another perk of this build. :D
No point in getting War caster since at Sword Bard 3 you get to use your weapon as an arcane focus. Just another perk of this build. :D
A Gish really needs help with con saves to keep concentration. This can come through resiliant con there are pros and cons of each, Warcaster is relatvely better at lower levels so if you are getting a feat at level 1 warcaster helps much more than resilianrt con, by level 8 resiliant is probably the better of the two (if you don't need the second feature or warcaster) a case can be made for a gish to take both.
I would also note that RAW while a swords bard with a sword in one hand and a shield in the other (or duel wielding) can cast a spel with both somantic and material components they can not cast a spell with somantic components but no material component.
HexBard. 1-2 levels of Hexblade Warlock, rest of the levels into Swords Bard.
Could you explain?
The biggest selling point of this build is being able to use CHA for all your offensive needs. Start Hexblade Warlock at level 1 preferably with Custom Lineage or V Human so that you can start with the Warcaster feat to allow you to cast and fight even if your hands are full. This gives you access to the powerful Eldritch Blast cantrip as well as medium armor and shield proficiencies on top of being able to attack using 1 handed weapons with your CHA stat. This makes stats management a lot easier than other gishes than may require them to improve both a weapon attack stat (STR/DEX) and their spell casting stat.
From level 2 onwards you can focus on leveling College of Swords Bard to pick up extra attack and Blade Flourishes to make you a formidable close quarters combatant. All the while having access to the spellcasting capabilities of a full caster (Bard).
The optional 2nd level in Warlock is to gain access to a couple of invocations like the powerful Agonizing Blast. But 1 level is all you really need. A 1 level dip also ensures you do not fall too far behind in terms of spell progression compared to a full caster.
No point in getting War caster since at Sword Bard 3 you get to use your weapon as an arcane focus. Just another perk of this build. :D
What Jegpeg said.
Resilient Con is better than Warcasters, especially for Swords Bards. If you really want that advantage, just tale a second level of Warlock which, besides all the goodies from second level warlock, also gives you Eldritch Mind. Bards only have about three level 1-9 spells and two cantrips that are Somantic only so it's a huge cost to take warcaster just because you might want to cast one of those in a situation where you can't stove your weapon for a turn.
Resilient Con is better than Warcasters, especially for Swords Bards. If you really want that advantage, just tale a second level of Warlock which, besides all the goodies from second level warlock, also gives you Eldritch Mind. Bards only have about three level 1-9 spells and two cantrips that are Somantic only so it's a huge cost to take warcaster just because you might want to cast one of those in a situation where you can't stove your weapon for a turn.
Resilient CON is better at maintaining concentration at higher levels, there is no doubt about it. But Warcaster is superior at earlier levels, especially when you get it at level 1. Eldritch Mind is also a solid invocation however a second level in Warlock does delay all your nice Sword Bard features meaning you will not get Extra Attack until level 8 not to mention having your spell progression delayed by 2 levels.
You are also ignoring the benefit of replacing Attacks of Opportunity with spells which is doing Warcaster a disservice.
Does anyone know of builds that have a reliable ranged spell attack and melee (spell or not) attack? Basically a gish build that is not a hexadin. Thanks
A different way to do this is to pick a melee class then use the variant human race and choose an initiate feat grabbing at least 1 ranged cantrip for your ranged attacks. As long as you boost the appropriate casting stat you should be good. So something like a feylost, Fey wanderer ranger with magic initiate warlock and the Druidic warrior fighting style would have 4 cantrips for ranged attacks (and/or melee) and all the fighting abilities and other spell abilities of a ranger.
Resilient Con is better than Warcasters, especially for Swords Bards. If you really want that advantage, just tale a second level of Warlock which, besides all the goodies from second level warlock, also gives you Eldritch Mind. Bards only have about three level 1-9 spells and two cantrips that are Somantic only so it's a huge cost to take warcaster just because you might want to cast one of those in a situation where you can't stove your weapon for a turn.
Resilient CON is better at maintaining concentration at higher levels, there is no doubt about it. But Warcaster is superior at earlier levels, especially when you get it at level 1. Eldritch Mind is also a solid invocation however a second level in Warlock does delay all your nice Sword Bard features meaning you will not get Extra Attack until level 8 not to mention having your spell progression delayed by 2 levels.
You are also ignoring the benefit of replacing Attacks of Opportunity with spells which is doing Warcaster a disservice.
I'm not ignoring anything but since that feature hadn't really been brought up I didn't care to comment on it. But sure, it is, situationally a useful ability.The question is whether or not it is worth getting the whole feat over. And since you're a gish, the likelyhood of you rather wanting to weapon attack with the OA is most likely rather high.
All in all, whereas War Caster pretty much only gives you benefits in combat, any many of those benefits are either highly situational or you get the same thing from just being a sword, Res-Con gives you not only an edge that works in combat (two actually, if you consider the extra HP), it can also be used for ANY con save, not just concentration checks. Being poisoned at a party? Res con will help you. Needing to roll a con save to avoid exhaustion? Res con will help you. Needing to resist a whole number of nasty spell effects? Again, res con is the thing. So, overall, due to the sheer versatility of con saves and the added bonus of extra HP, to me, Res-Con is the better option. I'd rather have something that is useful throughout my career than something that starts out kind of OK and then just less so.
@Lostwhilefishing just out of curiosity when you were counting up the spells that had a Somantic but no Material component for the HexBard did you take into account the Shield spell from the Hexblade spell list?
I feel being able to cast that spell without restriction with Warcaster tilts taking Warcaster over Resilient CON at level 1. That is of course my personal opinion and you are very much welcome to yours.
@Lostwhilefishing just out of curiosity when you were counting up the spells that had a Somantic but no Material component for the HexBard did you take into account the Shield spell from the Hexblade spell list?
I feel being able to cast that spell without restriction with Warcaster tilts taking Warcaster over Resilient CON at level 1. That is of course my personal opinion and you are very much welcome to yours.
I didn't actually. Mostly because I've never really seen anyone use Shield that often. Especially at lower levels since it eats away your spell slots so quick. But sure, if you feel that it's worth getting an entire feat to be able to cast a single spell, go right ahead. I tend to prefer utility and versatility in my builds.
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Does anyone know of builds that have a reliable ranged spell attack and melee (spell or not) attack? Basically a gish build that is not a hexadin. Thanks
No, I don't have too many weapons.
Homebrew: Spells, Magic Items, Feats
I never really tried it, but you could use aberrant dragonmark. It boosts con, and gives you a cantrip that uses con as your casting stat. You’d be mostly a melee type, but you could toss around a fire bolt, and with a pretty good con, you might actually hit with it sometimes.
A few options off the top of my head.
The "made for it" subclasses:
For multiclassing:
there's also the unusual & interesting druid gish of circle of wildfire + 1 level arcana cleric dip for the SCAG melee cantrips.
credit to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9-PuMmZO4s
add in a flame-tounge scimitar for best results. and maybe a 3 level swashbuckler rogue dip.
Artificers are good for that. An Armorer or Battlesmith can use their Intelligence for melee attacks and their ranged magic attacks, so you'll be wanting to get your Intelligence to 20 first, then your Constitution.
Druids are also really good for that. Moon and Spores are both really good for tanking, Land gives you more spells available, including some that Druids don't typically get, and Dreams gives some really nice abilities that are good for exploration campaigns. Druids have multiple cantrips that allow them to use their Wisdom Modifier to make melee attacks, and they're full casters, so you'll be wanting to get your Wisdom to 20 first, then your Constitution.
Hexblade 1, Sword Bard X. Probably the best Gish around. If you can accept less spellcasting, the already mentioned Battle Smith is a nice bet.
If you want something really crazy and more focused on Melee then Sword Bard 3 (at least), Barbarian (at least 2, preferebly 3 for Bear Totem) and Paladin 6 will give you a real monster. Your saves will be good because of Aura of Protection, your skills will be pretty good due to Jack of All Trades, you have spells from Bard, survivability from Barbarian and you get two Fighting styles so if you get Defence from Paladin and Dueling from Sword Bard you can do some real damage with a longsword and shield. If you roll well or invest an ASI in Dex you can easily have an AC of 19 (without magic items) and you'll do 1D8 +Rage Bonus +Strength Bonus +Dueling +Smite +Flourish Damage. Reckless attack for advantage to make it easier to hit and double your crit chance, not bad if I may say so. B)
HexBard. 1-2 levels of Hexblade Warlock, rest of the levels into Swords Bard.
Could you explain?
No, I don't have too many weapons.
Homebrew: Spells, Magic Items, Feats
The biggest selling point of this build is being able to use CHA for all your offensive needs. Start Hexblade Warlock at level 1 preferably with Custom Lineage or V Human so that you can start with the Warcaster feat to allow you to cast and fight even if your hands are full. This gives you access to the powerful Eldritch Blast cantrip as well as medium armor and shield proficiencies on top of being able to attack using 1 handed weapons with your CHA stat. This makes stats management a lot easier than other gishes than may require them to improve both a weapon attack stat (STR/DEX) and their spell casting stat.
From level 2 onwards you can focus on leveling College of Swords Bard to pick up extra attack and Blade Flourishes to make you a formidable close quarters combatant. All the while having access to the spellcasting capabilities of a full caster (Bard).
The optional 2nd level in Warlock is to gain access to a couple of invocations like the powerful Agonizing Blast. But 1 level is all you really need. A 1 level dip also ensures you do not fall too far behind in terms of spell progression compared to a full caster.
Thanks!
No, I don't have too many weapons.
Homebrew: Spells, Magic Items, Feats
Bladesinger Wizard is another decent gish build, probably my favorite.
No point in getting War caster since at Sword Bard 3 you get to use your weapon as an arcane focus. Just another perk of this build. :D
A Gish really needs help with con saves to keep concentration. This can come through resiliant con there are pros and cons of each, Warcaster is relatvely better at lower levels so if you are getting a feat at level 1 warcaster helps much more than resilianrt con, by level 8 resiliant is probably the better of the two (if you don't need the second feature or warcaster) a case can be made for a gish to take both.
I would also note that RAW while a swords bard with a sword in one hand and a shield in the other (or duel wielding) can cast a spel with both somantic and material components they can not cast a spell with somantic components but no material component.
What Jegpeg said.
Resilient Con is better than Warcasters, especially for Swords Bards. If you really want that advantage, just tale a second level of Warlock which, besides all the goodies from second level warlock, also gives you Eldritch Mind. Bards only have about three level 1-9 spells and two cantrips that are Somantic only so it's a huge cost to take warcaster just because you might want to cast one of those in a situation where you can't stove your weapon for a turn.
Resilient CON is better at maintaining concentration at higher levels, there is no doubt about it. But Warcaster is superior at earlier levels, especially when you get it at level 1. Eldritch Mind is also a solid invocation however a second level in Warlock does delay all your nice Sword Bard features meaning you will not get Extra Attack until level 8 not to mention having your spell progression delayed by 2 levels.
You are also ignoring the benefit of replacing Attacks of Opportunity with spells which is doing Warcaster a disservice.
A different way to do this is to pick a melee class then use the variant human race and choose an initiate feat grabbing at least 1 ranged cantrip for your ranged attacks. As long as you boost the appropriate casting stat you should be good. So something like a feylost, Fey wanderer ranger with magic initiate warlock and the Druidic warrior fighting style would have 4 cantrips for ranged attacks (and/or melee) and all the fighting abilities and other spell abilities of a ranger.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I'm not ignoring anything but since that feature hadn't really been brought up I didn't care to comment on it. But sure, it is, situationally a useful ability.The question is whether or not it is worth getting the whole feat over. And since you're a gish, the likelyhood of you rather wanting to weapon attack with the OA is most likely rather high.
All in all, whereas War Caster pretty much only gives you benefits in combat, any many of those benefits are either highly situational or you get the same thing from just being a sword, Res-Con gives you not only an edge that works in combat (two actually, if you consider the extra HP), it can also be used for ANY con save, not just concentration checks. Being poisoned at a party? Res con will help you. Needing to roll a con save to avoid exhaustion? Res con will help you. Needing to resist a whole number of nasty spell effects? Again, res con is the thing. So, overall, due to the sheer versatility of con saves and the added bonus of extra HP, to me, Res-Con is the better option. I'd rather have something that is useful throughout my career than something that starts out kind of OK and then just less so.
@Lostwhilefishing just out of curiosity when you were counting up the spells that had a Somantic but no Material component for the HexBard did you take into account the Shield spell from the Hexblade spell list?
I feel being able to cast that spell without restriction with Warcaster tilts taking Warcaster over Resilient CON at level 1. That is of course my personal opinion and you are very much welcome to yours.
I didn't actually. Mostly because I've never really seen anyone use Shield that often. Especially at lower levels since it eats away your spell slots so quick. But sure, if you feel that it's worth getting an entire feat to be able to cast a single spell, go right ahead. I tend to prefer utility and versatility in my builds.