Actually, an "attack" requires an attack roll. In fact, a spell isn't even considered an attack unless it has an attack roll.
You're trying to inflict a harmful effect onto an unwilling target in the middle of battle. To do that successfully you'd need to make an attack roll. Which means that you can't use Mage Hand for it. There are things you can use Mage Hand for, like smearing a contact poison onto an object that an enemy is likely to touch (such as the hilt of their weapon) or to drop a torch into a large puddle of lantern oil after some enemies have stepped into it. But the only direct effect you can perform against an enemy with Mage Hand is to shove them via the Telekinesis feat.
There are all kinds of ways to inflict harm on a target without making an attack roll, i.e. Toll the Dead, etc. There is nothing that says I can't inflict harm without making an attack roll.
Toll the Dead is a spell effect that harms its target on a metaphysical level and is resisted by pure willpower. Your hypothetical poisoned Mage Hand is attempting to physically touch an unwilling target. That needs an attack roll, like Shocking Grasp or Inflict Wounds.
Fifth Edition D&D rules are not based on the principle that you can do something as long as the rules don't say you can't. They're based on the principle that you can do something if the rules say you can.
The Essence of Either is an inhaled poison that only requires you to blow it in someone's direction, no attack roll needed. It does require a Con save, though, just like any poison that could be applied by mage hand. So, how is that "legal" and the other not?
______________
We could debate the rules of DnD forever, but I don't think they were ever meant to be a source of contention. Maybe everyone at your table is very impressed by your "grasp of the rules", but I feel that they're simply a guideline, not a mandate.
Play the game any way you like, but I don't feel it was ever meant to be a competition between the DM and the players. In my games I'm not afraid of my players - creativity is applauded and encouraged; let the dice tell the story. I'm almost certain Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson would be happy with the way they play out.
In the case of mage hand, who is blowing this poison, from even 5 feet away, let alone 30 feet? And even then, there’s still a save. There’s always an attack or a save (except for magic missile). Saying I know a utility cantrip, so I can auto-damage an enemy was never anyone’s idea of how the game should work.
If you want the mage hand to carry and open a vapor vector poison in the space of a foe so that normal spread (eventually) reaches the foe then you really need to consider the delay of the spread and more importantly the decrease in effectiveness since it’s not nearly as concentrated - so a 1-2 round delay before the save and a +2-4 on the save for the decreased concentration. I agree with Xalthu - no auto hits, the foe has to have a way to avoid.
That said, we have talked about a few mundane possibilities here or in other threads: fishing pole whips, flour bombs, ball bearing “grease spells”, so what other ways do folks have of using mundane equipment to help out in combat or instead of spells and slots?
Don’t waste your encumberance or cash on iron spikes, take 10 pitons instead- half the encumberance, and less than half the cost. The list I first gave is basically the equipment I try to get for my characters as quickly as possible.
Don’t waste your encumberance or cash on iron spikes, take 10 pitons instead- half the encumberance, and less than half the cost. The list I first gave is basically the equipment I try to get for my characters as quickly as possible.
If you want to actually do something like secure a door shut, you need spikes, not pitons.
Also, if you run into something like a rust monster, tossing out a handfull of iron spikes, or some other metal item like a bag of caltrops should distract said rust monster for a round or two while your metal-wearing party members GTFO.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
As for the poison the DM is perfectly in their rights to make you throw an attack roll. The com save is for the poison not necessarily the application of it.
"Mage Hand is not an attack spell."
Never said it was.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
In the case of mage hand, who is blowing this poison, from even 5 feet away, let alone 30 feet? And even then, there’s still a save. There’s always an attack or a save (except for magic missile). Saying I know a utility cantrip, so I can auto-damage an enemy was never anyone’s idea of how the game should work.
If you want the mage hand to carry and open a vapor vector poison in the space of a foe so that normal spread (eventually) reaches the foe then you really need to consider the delay of the spread and more importantly the decrease in effectiveness since it’s not nearly as concentrated - so a 1-2 round delay before the save and a +2-4 on the save for the decreased concentration. I agree with Xalthu - no auto hits, the foe has to have a way to avoid.
That said, we have talked about a few mundane possibilities here or in other threads: fishing pole whips, flour bombs, ball bearing “grease spells”, so what other ways do folks have of using mundane equipment to help out in combat or instead of spells and slots?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I have used mage hand to drop some burnable/smoke poison on a fire and then to block the chimney. But never in a direct attack.
It cleared out the house for my subsequent robbery quite well.
I don’t think these are for combat specifically, but pretty much every character I create carries a small knife, string ×10, a bell, some chalk, a few candles, a steel mirror, sealing wax, a couple of iron spikes, an empty vial, and often a signal whistle. And it all fits in a single pouch.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Don’t waste your encumberance or cash on iron spikes, take 10 pitons instead- half the encumberance, and less than half the cost. The list I first gave is basically the equipment I try to get for my characters as quickly as possible.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
a torch, poison and rope and a little knife to cut out improvised weapons
I found empty vials useful at times. A couple of times I collected green slime or yellow mold by using mage hand to get it in the vials
If you want to actually do something like secure a door shut, you need spikes, not pitons.
Also, if you run into something like a rust monster, tossing out a handfull of iron spikes, or some other metal item like a bag of caltrops should distract said rust monster for a round or two while your metal-wearing party members GTFO.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
A few simple door wedges works wonders for blocking doors real quick and quiet.
And with a little planing you can secure the door from either side.
yes they can be quickly removed but they could give the party that extra few rounds of movement to get away.
"Mage Hand is not an attack spell."
Never said it was.