This is my first post, so forgive me if this is the wrong forum.
I'm playing a 5e campaign (Rise Of The Runelords) as a halfling bard. One of my cantrips is Minor Illusion, which has been virtually useless in my campaign. I've been looking for creative times to cast the cantrip, since it has a lot of flexibility, but it's really just been taking up a slot. So...
My party recently defeated some nasty creatures that used a howl to frighten us. After the battle, I asked the DM if I could roll (performance, intelligence, whatever) to learn the howl and recreate it using Minor Illusion. My DM decided that I couldn't because the fright was an innate property of these beasts that couldn't be replicated by my halfling. However, he did like the idea of it and suggested I look through the player's handbook to see if there are any spells that my bard could study and learn to replicate through Minor Illusion.
Has anyone tried this in their own campaigns? Any suggestions?
I could recreate it, but it would just be a sound. The specific reason given was because these were beasts and my halfling doesn't have access to the same type of magic as a humanoid.
EDIT: I'm not sure what standard rules should apply -this is just the determination my DM made.
Minor illusion doesn't do a whole lot on its own. To replicate a spell it would have to be something static. You couldn't use it to replicate the visual of the more active spells like say Fireball, which not only moves but explodes.
The main use I've seen and recently started using on my Warlock is portable cover. As a halfling this is even easier for you as you're small. Someone searching for you? Minor illusion a rock around yourself. Unless they try to touch it or some how think it's an illusion they won't be able to see you, but as you know it's an illusion you can see through it. Trying to do something in an open doorway? Make an illusionary door. Illusions can be some of the strongest spells in the game, limited only by your imagination.
Of course it is, for the most part, always up to the DM. And i have no idea what creature you were facing, so i can't say whether or not it was magical. but let's look at an example.
What would happen if you recreated a wolf howl or growl, near a flock of rabbits. Would the rabbits know that the howl is fake or would they be scared and hide?
Of course intelligent creatures could deduce that the noise might be fake based on where it appears, for example if you recreate a dragon's roar underground intelligent creatures might think that, a dragon being underground would be highly unlikely and ignore it. while simple minded creatures might take a look around to see where the noise came from
Unfortunately, a lot of the uses you've described haven't been possible in my campaign, mostly because I'm playing with a half-orc barbarian that kicks down literally every single door she sees. We're always rolling initiative before perception/stealth checks. My halfling has started pretty much every battle surrounded on all sides, making the "illusion" part of the cantrip useless (since all the enemy NPCs can see me casting it right in front of them) -not to mention he has a lot of other spells that are just better uses of an action (Vicious Mockery, etc.).
I'm not complaining about the barbarian, though. She has literally carried me through battle. Literally. On her shoulders.
And again, I'm not trying to just imitate spells (making an illusion that looks like a Fireball). I want to actually try and have my illusions create an effect, since my DM has opened the door up for me to do so.
I'm looking to create an image or sound that will frighten, blind, deafen, etc. I'm sure my DM will find suitable limitations.
Gotta love half orcs and kicking down doors. My own tried that but failed to realize it was an open out door and got it stuck.
I dunno about deafening as the spell says how loud it can go, which isn't loud enough to deafen, but blinding could be done. Let's say you're in a dark dungeon fighting some Goblins hiding in the shadows. You then minor illusion a bright orb of light in their face, which could cause them to go temporarily blind like a flashbang (without the bang of course.)
Frightening could be done as well, though more as intimidation. You're in a room taking to some group of foes and try to convince them you have some beast they're scared of outside the door. To help, you minor illusion the beasts growl outside the door. Dunno if that would give the condition, but if you did it subtly you might get advantage on the persuasion/intimidation roll.
I dunno about deafening as the spell says how loud it can go, which isn't loud enough to deafen, but blinding could be done. Let's say you're in a dark dungeon fighting some Goblins hiding in the shadows. You then minor illusion a bright orb of light in their face, which could cause them to go temporarily blind like a flashbang (without the bang of course.)
I've taken the Minor Illusion description and split it into two parts. The first only contains specific info about sound illusions. The second is about image illusions.
SOUNDS
You create a sound within range (30 ft.) that lasts for the duration (1 min.). The illusion also ends if you dismiss it as an action or cast this spell again.
Its volume can range from a whisper to a scream. It can be your voice, someone else’s voice, a lion’s roar, a beating of drums, or any other sound you choose. The sound continues unabated throughout the duration, or you can make discrete sounds at different times.
If a creature uses its action to examine the illusion, the creature must pass an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint to the creature.
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IMAGES
You create an image of an object within range (30 ft.) that lasts for the duration (1 min.). The illusion also ends if you dismiss it as an action or cast this spell again.
It must be no larger than a 5-foot cube. The image can't create any sensory effect. Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an illusion, because things can pass through it.
If a creature uses its action to examine the illusion, the creature must pass an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint to the creature.
I feel like that makes it a lot easier to see what this cantrip actually does.
There's no limit to the volume of the sound, but it's not entirely clear in the description concerning the location of the sound or area of effect. I'm sure this spell was intended for things like knocking on doors or footsteps in a hallway, so I'd imagine the source of the sound can be anywhere within the radius, but if I try to deafen my enemies, I might deafen my party too.
Images can't create any sensory effect. Whatever that means. Prestidigitation creates harmless sensory effects. I'm not sure there's a definition anywhere for what a sensory effect is in terms of 5e rules.
I believe the intent of this specific line is to prevent your Minor Illusion of a candle from burning through a rope. But since vision is a sense itself, I think this is a poor way to word the description. The intent is to prevent the image from interacting with the world around it. But whether my bard could conjure an illusion so bright to blind might be a kind of loophole. Or maybe he could make a light bright enough to convince an enemy that it's blind.
"I'm looking to create an image or sound that will frighten, blind, deafen, etc. I'm sure my DM will find suitable limitations."
The idea of a cantrip illusion recreating the impact of even 1st level spells is generally outside the intent of the spell's level. Why would someone take Blindness/Deafness when they can recreate the effect with an illusion?
As for your trio of ideas quoted above, the 1st seems quite easily doable. Want to frighten away a bunch of campers? Create the illusion of a skunk and have it raise its tail. Or a super nasty spider with gleaming red eyes. A 5-foot cube is lots of space to work with. Fear is a very case-specific reaction. What you can't do is forcefully have your illusion impose the frightened state. Or for that matter the blinded or deafened conditions. The sounds you make your illusion have can still have an impact on the minds of those that experience it. If you hear thunder, you'll think rain is coming. If you hear howl, you'll think a wolf is in the vicinity. The power of illusions is such that the target's mind fills in the blanks.
And the visual suggestions above are all great uses. Want to get a guard away from a post? Make an illusion of someone trying to jimmy a lock of a nearby door. (Or back to audio, make the sound of breakfast glass and perhaps he'll go investigate?) Want to hide, put up a harmless object to mask your presence. Want to appear wealthier than you are? Put some illusory bling on. Want to cause havoc? Dig a pit in front of the only entrance to somewhere and cover it with an illusion of simple ground. There are, I believe, a number of threads discussing illusion ideas. But to your actual question, you can't "really" have an illusion do the same thing as a higher level spell.
Actually, the description of the spell specifically states the sound ranges from a whisper to a scream.
Otherwise, I too am confused by the wording of sensory. Sure, you can't make smells or have the creature feel say fire with an illusion of fire, but it does make me wonder where the line is drawn for imagery.
Aye, but a scream wouldn't deafen someone, in regards to the condition. For RP flavor you can say the target has a ringing in its ears if let's say someone has the illusion sound off right next to the target.
As for the sensory effect, it's as you suggest. Illusory fire can't burn or produce heat, you can't "touch" it, the brightness of a light can't blind; it's even questionable if it can produce light. I feel like that's an old D&D question and I can't remember what the answer is; if it's completely dark outside and you make the illusion of a candle, does it emit enough light to see?
I feel like that's an old D&D question and I can't remember what the answer is; if it's completely dark outside and you make the illusion of a candle, does it emit enough light to see?
Shit, now I cant sleep before I get a answer to this! Why oh why do you have to torment me with this just before bed???
A candle is an object, but a flame is not, and Minor Illusion doesn't create other sensory effects (warmth, light, smell.) At best, it'd produce an image of a lit candle with a static flame and no light; at worst, you can only produce an unlit candle.
1) Create 5' cube of fog. Because it's only sensory input is visual it's fine. You can use it for cover, so you can hide behind it, and because you know it's an illusion you can see through it. Other people can't. If you put on ON a creature they still RAW have to use their action to examine it (Investigation vs your Spell DC). If they fail they are blind in the fog, because they think the fog is real. If they pass then they see it's illusion. If you use it for defense then it always works. They still have to use their Action to discern it or they automatically believe it because even if they shoot into a fog of cloud it there is no ability to interact with it, so that won't give it away.
2) Make a physical object that "fits" into the area that I can hide inside. Rock, crate, more wall, etc... anything to help my character not be seen. Only physical interaction or an Action to examine the object or sound will reveal it.
3) I use it like a holographic display in a Sci-fi.
When our group is planning an attack, I use minor illusion to create a 3D representation of the plan, instead of "drawing in the dirt". In addition if my familiar is scouting ahead of the group, instead of "describing the room", I created a 3D display. Do you need to describe an NPC or object to another NPC? BAMF! Minor Illusion makes holodisplay.
This is my first post, so forgive me if this is the wrong forum.
I'm playing a 5e campaign (Rise Of The Runelords) as a halfling bard. One of my cantrips is Minor Illusion, which has been virtually useless in my campaign. I've been looking for creative times to cast the cantrip, since it has a lot of flexibility, but it's really just been taking up a slot. So...
My party recently defeated some nasty creatures that used a howl to frighten us. After the battle, I asked the DM if I could roll (performance, intelligence, whatever) to learn the howl and recreate it using Minor Illusion. My DM decided that I couldn't because the fright was an innate property of these beasts that couldn't be replicated by my halfling. However, he did like the idea of it and suggested I look through the player's handbook to see if there are any spells that my bard could study and learn to replicate through Minor Illusion.
Has anyone tried this in their own campaigns? Any suggestions?
Did your DM say that your Bard couldn't recreate the sound? or that if you did it wouldn't frighten anyone?
The latter.
I could recreate it, but it would just be a sound. The specific reason given was because these were beasts and my halfling doesn't have access to the same type of magic as a humanoid.
EDIT: I'm not sure what standard rules should apply -this is just the determination my DM made.
Minor illusion doesn't do a whole lot on its own. To replicate a spell it would have to be something static. You couldn't use it to replicate the visual of the more active spells like say Fireball, which not only moves but explodes.
The main use I've seen and recently started using on my Warlock is portable cover. As a halfling this is even easier for you as you're small. Someone searching for you? Minor illusion a rock around yourself. Unless they try to touch it or some how think it's an illusion they won't be able to see you, but as you know it's an illusion you can see through it. Trying to do something in an open doorway? Make an illusionary door. Illusions can be some of the strongest spells in the game, limited only by your imagination.
Of course it is, for the most part, always up to the DM. And i have no idea what creature you were facing, so i can't say whether or not it was magical. but let's look at an example.
What would happen if you recreated a wolf howl or growl, near a flock of rabbits. Would the rabbits know that the howl is fake or would they be scared and hide?
Of course intelligent creatures could deduce that the noise might be fake based on where it appears, for example if you recreate a dragon's roar underground intelligent creatures might think that, a dragon being underground would be highly unlikely and ignore it. while simple minded creatures might take a look around to see where the noise came from
KageAcuma,
Unfortunately, a lot of the uses you've described haven't been possible in my campaign, mostly because I'm playing with a half-orc barbarian that kicks down literally every single door she sees. We're always rolling initiative before perception/stealth checks. My halfling has started pretty much every battle surrounded on all sides, making the "illusion" part of the cantrip useless (since all the enemy NPCs can see me casting it right in front of them) -not to mention he has a lot of other spells that are just better uses of an action (Vicious Mockery, etc.).
I'm not complaining about the barbarian, though. She has literally carried me through battle. Literally. On her shoulders.
And again, I'm not trying to just imitate spells (making an illusion that looks like a Fireball). I want to actually try and have my illusions create an effect, since my DM has opened the door up for me to do so.
I'm looking to create an image or sound that will frighten, blind, deafen, etc. I'm sure my DM will find suitable limitations.
Gotta love half orcs and kicking down doors. My own tried that but failed to realize it was an open out door and got it stuck.
I dunno about deafening as the spell says how loud it can go, which isn't loud enough to deafen, but blinding could be done. Let's say you're in a dark dungeon fighting some Goblins hiding in the shadows. You then minor illusion a bright orb of light in their face, which could cause them to go temporarily blind like a flashbang (without the bang of course.)
Frightening could be done as well, though more as intimidation. You're in a room taking to some group of foes and try to convince them you have some beast they're scared of outside the door. To help, you minor illusion the beasts growl outside the door. Dunno if that would give the condition, but if you did it subtly you might get advantage on the persuasion/intimidation roll.
That's at least what I do at my table.
SOUNDS
You create a sound within range (30 ft.) that lasts for the duration (1 min.). The illusion also ends if you dismiss it as an action or cast this spell again.
Its volume can range from a whisper to a scream. It can be your voice, someone else’s voice, a lion’s roar, a beating of drums, or any other sound you choose. The sound continues unabated throughout the duration, or you can make discrete sounds at different times.
If a creature uses its action to examine the illusion, the creature must pass an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint to the creature.
You create an image of an object within range (30 ft.) that lasts for the duration (1 min.). The illusion also ends if you dismiss it as an action or cast this spell again.
It must be no larger than a 5-foot cube. The image can't create any sensory effect. Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an illusion, because things can pass through it.
If a creature uses its action to examine the illusion, the creature must pass an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint to the creature.
I feel like that makes it a lot easier to see what this cantrip actually does.
There's no limit to the volume of the sound, but it's not entirely clear in the description concerning the location of the sound or area of effect. I'm sure this spell was intended for things like knocking on doors or footsteps in a hallway, so I'd imagine the source of the sound can be anywhere within the radius, but if I try to deafen my enemies, I might deafen my party too.
Images can't create any sensory effect. Whatever that means. Prestidigitation creates harmless sensory effects. I'm not sure there's a definition anywhere for what a sensory effect is in terms of 5e rules.
I believe the intent of this specific line is to prevent your Minor Illusion of a candle from burning through a rope. But since vision is a sense itself, I think this is a poor way to word the description. The intent is to prevent the image from interacting with the world around it. But whether my bard could conjure an illusion so bright to blind might be a kind of loophole. Or maybe he could make a light bright enough to convince an enemy that it's blind.
"I'm looking to create an image or sound that will frighten, blind, deafen, etc. I'm sure my DM will find suitable limitations."
The idea of a cantrip illusion recreating the impact of even 1st level spells is generally outside the intent of the spell's level. Why would someone take Blindness/Deafness when they can recreate the effect with an illusion?
As for your trio of ideas quoted above, the 1st seems quite easily doable. Want to frighten away a bunch of campers? Create the illusion of a skunk and have it raise its tail. Or a super nasty spider with gleaming red eyes. A 5-foot cube is lots of space to work with. Fear is a very case-specific reaction. What you can't do is forcefully have your illusion impose the frightened state. Or for that matter the blinded or deafened conditions. The sounds you make your illusion have can still have an impact on the minds of those that experience it. If you hear thunder, you'll think rain is coming. If you hear howl, you'll think a wolf is in the vicinity. The power of illusions is such that the target's mind fills in the blanks.
And the visual suggestions above are all great uses. Want to get a guard away from a post? Make an illusion of someone trying to jimmy a lock of a nearby door. (Or back to audio, make the sound of breakfast glass and perhaps he'll go investigate?) Want to hide, put up a harmless object to mask your presence. Want to appear wealthier than you are? Put some illusory bling on. Want to cause havoc? Dig a pit in front of the only entrance to somewhere and cover it with an illusion of simple ground. There are, I believe, a number of threads discussing illusion ideas. But to your actual question, you can't "really" have an illusion do the same thing as a higher level spell.
Actually, the description of the spell specifically states the sound ranges from a whisper to a scream.
Otherwise, I too am confused by the wording of sensory. Sure, you can't make smells or have the creature feel say fire with an illusion of fire, but it does make me wonder where the line is drawn for imagery.
Aye, but a scream wouldn't deafen someone, in regards to the condition. For RP flavor you can say the target has a ringing in its ears if let's say someone has the illusion sound off right next to the target.
As for the sensory effect, it's as you suggest. Illusory fire can't burn or produce heat, you can't "touch" it, the brightness of a light can't blind; it's even questionable if it can produce light. I feel like that's an old D&D question and I can't remember what the answer is; if it's completely dark outside and you make the illusion of a candle, does it emit enough light to see?
A candle is an object, but a flame is not, and Minor Illusion doesn't create other sensory effects (warmth, light, smell.) At best, it'd produce an image of a lit candle with a static flame and no light; at worst, you can only produce an unlit candle.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I'm surprised they altered those lines.
My favorite uses for Minor Illusion.
1) Create 5' cube of fog. Because it's only sensory input is visual it's fine. You can use it for cover, so you can hide behind it, and because you know it's an illusion you can see through it. Other people can't.
If you put on ON a creature they still RAW have to use their action to examine it (Investigation vs your Spell DC). If they fail they are blind in the fog, because they think the fog is real. If they pass then they see it's illusion.
If you use it for defense then it always works. They still have to use their Action to discern it or they automatically believe it because even if they shoot into a fog of cloud it there is no ability to interact with it, so that won't give it away.
2) Make a physical object that "fits" into the area that I can hide inside. Rock, crate, more wall, etc... anything to help my character not be seen.
Only physical interaction or an Action to examine the object or sound will reveal it.
3) I use it like a holographic display in a Sci-fi.
When our group is planning an attack, I use minor illusion to create a 3D representation of the plan, instead of "drawing in the dirt". In addition if my familiar is scouting ahead of the group, instead of "describing the room", I created a 3D display.
Do you need to describe an NPC or object to another NPC? BAMF! Minor Illusion makes holodisplay.