A Sorcerer can use Friends with Subtle Spell to chat advantageously with one person without drawing attention. If they go hostile after the time elapses, his friends won't know why and you can slip away while they try to hold him back.
I know this is an old thread, but I think a lot of people are overlooking the two best parts of the Friend spell:
1. The target is Self. You're not targeting anybody. You cast it on yourself. So no saving throws, no chance of failure, just immediate success. Which means it's hugely more useful than ANY other enchantment that requires saves against high-WIS target. When you consider that the Charm effect itself is basically just Friends plus protection from attack, this is far superior in any quick-and-bloody social situation where you don't need to be friends after.
2. Since you're casting it on yourself, you don't need line of sight or effect to your target. How many DMs have screwed an enchanter by saying "the guard sees you casting a spell and attacks"? With this, you can be on a different PLANE OF EXISTENCE, identify who you're using this on, and get a minute of advantage on checks.
Need to sweet talk your way into a hostile city with suspicious (but not actively hostile) guards? Cast it on yourself as you're still out of sight, schmooze your way in the door, then get lost in the crowd. Save the spell slot, no risk of saving throws, and no risk getting caught casting and thrown in prison.
Here's a fun one: Charm Person spell running out, and you need them to be cool for just a little longer as you make your getaway/finish your task/set up an ambush? Cast Friends, and use your next action to convince them that the spell you cast on them was benign - after all, they can check, and they're no longer under the effect of a magical spell, so it's all good. Then slip away before the spell effect runs out.
I love and hate this cantrip, mostly because I have a wizard in one of my campaigns who actively tries to derail and destroy the storyline, much the the chagrin of everybody else. For example, when tasked with investigating a home who's owner had not been seen in some time, after finding it empty, he insisted on burning it to the ground. Even after our Monk pinned him to the ground, and the NPC spellcaster counter spelled their first attempt, they rolled well and blew up the house, lighting the entire town on fire and causing the entire story to be derailed as the wizard is now seen as a Terrorist within the town that the entire storyline takes place in. This cantrip makes that sort of play style laughably easy. So my vote is there are very specific times when this cantrip is useful, so I wouldn't suggest it for any spell list except for someone like a Wizard who could prepare it one day and be rid of it the next, or for someone capable of shape shifting or disguises.
Also bear in mind - Friends isn't cast on the other creature, it is cast on yourself.
This means you can use it to influence creatures that are normally immune or resistant to enchantment/charm.effects. Of course, it is still highly limited by the non-hostile restriction
However gaining advantage can be a quick way to bump up the result of a check to influence someone, even a friendly creature if you need them to take a significant risk (such as hand over the keys to the main gate, or open the vault to allow the players to go inside). Just be quick about getting what you want.
CONVERSATION REACTION (CHARISMA check) DMG p 245 DC Friendly Creature's Reaction 0 The creature does as asked without taking risks or making sacrifices. 10 The creature accepts a minor risk or sacrifice to do as asked. 20 The creature accepts a significant risk or sacrifice to do as asked.
DC Indifferent Creature's Reaction 0 The creature offers no help but does no harm . 10 The creature does as asked as long as no risks or sacrifices are involved. 20 The creature accepts a minor risk or sacrifice to do as asked.
When you want to get into a trendy tavern but the bouncer thinks you’re just some average level 1 joe and won't let you in.
I'd be hesitant to use Friends in any situation where you end up in a confined space when the spell effect ends, especially when the subject of the spell is a bouncer. Remember that, once the spell ends, the subject will realize you used magic to influence its mood and become hostile to you. Assuming you schmooze your way into said club, the bouncer isn't just guarding the only entrance, but also the only exit, and knows the layout of the club and is on good terms with its inhabitants. Best-case scenario, you get dragged out of the club in front of everybody about two minutes after you enter. Worst-case, nobody stops the now-hostile bouncer from beating the tar out of you.
Could be a fun quest hook if a cocky player doesn't read their spells carefully. They try to sneak into the club, the bouncer drags them outside, and the "boss" press gangs you into service.
I love and hate this cantrip, mostly because I have a wizard in one of my campaigns who actively tries to derail and destroy the storyline, much the the chagrin of everybody else. For example, when tasked with investigating a home who's owner had not been seen in some time, after finding it empty, he insisted on burning it to the ground. Even after our Monk pinned him to the ground, and the NPC spellcaster counter spelled their first attempt, they rolled well and blew up the house, lighting the entire town on fire and causing the entire story to be derailed as the wizard is now seen as a Terrorist within the town that the entire storyline takes place in. This cantrip makes that sort of play style laughably easy. So my vote is there are very specific times when this cantrip is useful, so I wouldn't suggest it for any spell list except for someone like a Wizard who could prepare it one day and be rid of it the next, or for someone capable of shape shifting or disguises.
should have been a town posse and executed him.
You could just talk to your player, one-on-one sometime, and let them know they're being a disruptive influence. If you can make it clear they're ruining everyone else's fun, you give them the chance to change their character decisions without having to have your team physically prevent them from causing mayhem. If you can't get through to them, then it's a good opportunity to free up table space for another player who will be considerate of the rest of the table. In-game punishments just create problems for the rest of the team, and that's hardly fair to them. Besides, if you kill his character, 100% guarantee he rolls a new character with an ax to grind.
A note about the spell ending: If you cast the spell again, maintaining concentratio,n you could potentially keep your new informant talking for hours.
BDaddLy, when the spell ends (after its 1 minute duration) the creature turns hostile toward you. As the spell can't be used against creatures hostile towards you, there is no way to extend the effect past the duration.
you can cast the spell after 30 seconds then it will last another 60 seconds. Then you can cast it after 30 seconds and it will last another 60 seconds. Do not allow the spell to end and the target will not turn hostile.
No, casting concentration spells over and over again doesn't extend the previous spell's duration. Starting concentration on one spell breaks concentration on previously-concentrated-on spells. If you cast friends, and thirty seconds in cast friends again, you'd have to break concentration on the first casting to begin concentrating on it again. Thus ending it. Thus hostile. Thus the second casting fails.
Feels like an unnecessarily harsh interpretation. Though there is some support for it.
RaW: Concentration ends when you cast a spell. If you are counterspelled you dont cast the spell, right? You use a spell slot and you are interrupted in the process of casting the spell. The spell is not cast until it takes effect. To clarify if I attempt to throw my fishing lure into a lake and it gets caught on my brother I fail to cast the lure.
RaF: Let your players befriend the PC.
RaI: according to Crawford (years ago), there is "a split second or so" between when concentration ends and the next spell takes effect. No fun allowed.
It's not overly harsh, it's a cantrip. It's meant to be a quick, free effect. And your Counterspell interpretation doesn't make sense. If you cast a spell and it's counterspelled, you still cast the spell, it just doesn't work. Otherwise, you would get to keep the spell slot.
Casting a spell that required concentration breaks concentration. It doesn't matter if the duration that spell is interrupted is measured in nanoseconds. It's interrupted. The spell ends. When the spell ends, the target becomes hostile.
If you want to play by your interpretation, you are free to. But that's not the rule, and it's not the rule as intended.
Never tried this but if you cast friends, say a politician who's a pain. since they are friendly, could you be a jerk and attack them and get an automatic crit?
You wouldn't get any of these things. Friends doesn't make anybody friendly. It only gives you advantage on any Charisma-based ability checks that you use against the target. Now, you could potentially use Deception to convince them that they were safe with you, and having done that, potentially give them the surprised condition on the first round of combat should you choose to attack them. But if the duration of Friends ended before you made your attack, they'd become hostile and likely immediately attack you, thus negating any benefit you'd have. So you'd have to move pretty quickly.
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I have a wild magic sorcerer who’s personality is loosely based off of Tom Green and Caboose.
so, I use the friends cantrip to create wacky RP settings.
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was said by someone above:
exactly what I do with my guy.
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I know this is an old thread, but I think a lot of people are overlooking the two best parts of the Friend spell:
1. The target is Self. You're not targeting anybody. You cast it on yourself. So no saving throws, no chance of failure, just immediate success. Which means it's hugely more useful than ANY other enchantment that requires saves against high-WIS target. When you consider that the Charm effect itself is basically just Friends plus protection from attack, this is far superior in any quick-and-bloody social situation where you don't need to be friends after.
2. Since you're casting it on yourself, you don't need line of sight or effect to your target. How many DMs have screwed an enchanter by saying "the guard sees you casting a spell and attacks"? With this, you can be on a different PLANE OF EXISTENCE, identify who you're using this on, and get a minute of advantage on checks.
Need to sweet talk your way into a hostile city with suspicious (but not actively hostile) guards? Cast it on yourself as you're still out of sight, schmooze your way in the door, then get lost in the crowd. Save the spell slot, no risk of saving throws, and no risk getting caught casting and thrown in prison.
Here's a fun one: Charm Person spell running out, and you need them to be cool for just a little longer as you make your getaway/finish your task/set up an ambush? Cast Friends, and use your next action to convince them that the spell you cast on them was benign - after all, they can check, and they're no longer under the effect of a magical spell, so it's all good. Then slip away before the spell effect runs out.
should have been a town posse and executed him.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
"These aren't the droids you're looking for."
Enough said :-)
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Until the Stormtroopers turn around a minute later and call for reinforcements to hunt you down.
"When the spell ends, the creature realizes that you used magic to influence its mood and becomes hostile toward you."
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
Well that's actually what happened in the movie, Luke and Obi-Wan just left the cantina before they arrived.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Also bear in mind - Friends isn't cast on the other creature, it is cast on yourself.
This means you can use it to influence creatures that are normally immune or resistant to enchantment/charm.effects.
Of course, it is still highly limited by the non-hostile restriction
However gaining advantage can be a quick way to bump up the result of a check to influence someone, even a friendly creature if you need them to take a significant risk (such as hand over the keys to the main gate, or open the vault to allow the players to go inside).
Just be quick about getting what you want.
CONVERSATION REACTION (CHARISMA check) DMG p 245
DC Friendly Creature's Reaction
0 The creature does as asked without taking risks or making sacrifices.
10 The creature accepts a minor risk or sacrifice to do as asked.
20 The creature accepts a significant risk or sacrifice to do as asked.
DC Indifferent Creature's Reaction
0 The creature offers no help but does no harm .
10 The creature does as asked as long as no risks or sacrifices are involved.
20 The creature accepts a minor risk or sacrifice to do as asked.
When you want to get into a trendy tavern but the bouncer thinks you’re just some average level 1 joe and won't let you in.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
I'd be hesitant to use Friends in any situation where you end up in a confined space when the spell effect ends, especially when the subject of the spell is a bouncer. Remember that, once the spell ends, the subject will realize you used magic to influence its mood and become hostile to you. Assuming you schmooze your way into said club, the bouncer isn't just guarding the only entrance, but also the only exit, and knows the layout of the club and is on good terms with its inhabitants. Best-case scenario, you get dragged out of the club in front of everybody about two minutes after you enter. Worst-case, nobody stops the now-hostile bouncer from beating the tar out of you.
Could be a fun quest hook if a cocky player doesn't read their spells carefully. They try to sneak into the club, the bouncer drags them outside, and the "boss" press gangs you into service.
Also:
You could just talk to your player, one-on-one sometime, and let them know they're being a disruptive influence. If you can make it clear they're ruining everyone else's fun, you give them the chance to change their character decisions without having to have your team physically prevent them from causing mayhem. If you can't get through to them, then it's a good opportunity to free up table space for another player who will be considerate of the rest of the table. In-game punishments just create problems for the rest of the team, and that's hardly fair to them. Besides, if you kill his character, 100% guarantee he rolls a new character with an ax to grind.
A note about the spell ending: If you cast the spell again, maintaining concentratio,n you could potentially keep your new informant talking for hours.
Extended Signature
BDaddLy, when the spell ends (after its 1 minute duration) the creature turns hostile toward you. As the spell can't be used against creatures hostile towards you, there is no way to extend the effect past the duration.
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
you can cast the spell after 30 seconds then it will last another 60 seconds. Then you can cast it after 30 seconds and it will last another 60 seconds. Do not allow the spell to end and the target will not turn hostile.
Extended Signature
No, casting concentration spells over and over again doesn't extend the previous spell's duration. Starting concentration on one spell breaks concentration on previously-concentrated-on spells. If you cast friends, and thirty seconds in cast friends again, you'd have to break concentration on the first casting to begin concentrating on it again. Thus ending it. Thus hostile. Thus the second casting fails.
Feels like an unnecessarily harsh interpretation. Though there is some support for it.
RaW: Concentration ends when you cast a spell. If you are counterspelled you dont cast the spell, right? You use a spell slot and you are interrupted in the process of casting the spell. The spell is not cast until it takes effect. To clarify if I attempt to throw my fishing lure into a lake and it gets caught on my brother I fail to cast the lure.
RaF: Let your players befriend the PC.
RaI: according to Crawford (years ago), there is "a split second or so" between when concentration ends and the next spell takes effect. No fun allowed.
Extended Signature
It's not overly harsh, it's a cantrip. It's meant to be a quick, free effect. And your Counterspell interpretation doesn't make sense. If you cast a spell and it's counterspelled, you still cast the spell, it just doesn't work. Otherwise, you would get to keep the spell slot.
Casting a spell that required concentration breaks concentration. It doesn't matter if the duration that spell is interrupted is measured in nanoseconds. It's interrupted. The spell ends. When the spell ends, the target becomes hostile.
If you want to play by your interpretation, you are free to. But that's not the rule, and it's not the rule as intended.
Never tried this but if you cast friends, say a politician who's a pain. since they are friendly, could you be a jerk and attack them and get an automatic crit?
You don't get an automatic crit against targets that are friendly, at most you get Advantage on the attack roll.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
You wouldn't get any of these things. Friends doesn't make anybody friendly. It only gives you advantage on any Charisma-based ability checks that you use against the target. Now, you could potentially use Deception to convince them that they were safe with you, and having done that, potentially give them the surprised condition on the first round of combat should you choose to attack them. But if the duration of Friends ended before you made your attack, they'd become hostile and likely immediately attack you, thus negating any benefit you'd have. So you'd have to move pretty quickly.