Ok. so the PHB defines the whip as a weapon, and furthermore, as effective as a low-level monk's fist or open hand. So yes, under the rules, the whip can be used to pushback/shove.
As always, the DM can make exceptions. Tripping someone prone with a whip or polearm is easy to imagine, but pushing someone back with a whip is silly in my opinion.
Relating to whips, I'd personally houserule that whips should count as light weapons, to make them a decent off-hand weapon. Low damage, but getting a reach weapon in your off-hand? Hell yeah.
...Though I don't think that would be AL legal, so nevermind.
to be fair they are already finesse and reach, IF AL rulings support using shove type attack with it it is plenty potent. If you can't use it for anything tricky then it is an awful weapon although I guess you could still use it for sneak attack since it is finesse lol.
To be honest I don't know what the actual question that was asked that prompted the tweet from Jeremy, since the tweet no longer exists/account no longer exists. Regardless it is not something I was planning for AL league type event so meh. I'll try it it out and see how badly it can get abused.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Relating to whips, I'd personally houserule that whips should count as light weapons, to make them a decent off-hand weapon. Low damage, but getting a reach weapon in your off-hand? Hell yeah.
Nothing stops you from holding a whip in addition to another weapon, you just don't get a bonus action attack out of it. In any situation where an enemy is only within range of the whip you wouldn't be able to attack with both weapons anyways.
Can always take Dual Wielder feat to wield Whips in off-hand. Combine with Battle Master or the Feat that gives you Maneuvers to gain access to the ability to trip/shove opponents with the Whips.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
... I am wondering if you can use the Whip's reach to essentially trip (shove) an enemy and knock them flat at 10 ft.
One thing to consider is, if such a maneuver is successful, you may be imposing your own disadvantage on subsequent attacks if you stay 10ft away, as that is what happens when a creature has the prone condition.
Please, even that mangling of our beautiful language hurt me more than I want to think about.
You have to have something pure to show true foulness. It was no coincidence that the Temple to Paladine was the backdrop to cursed tower of High Sorcery in Palanthus. The best horror movies have moments where you laugh, the best comedies have moments of pathos, and nights of glorious debauchery have hangovers. I hesitate to mention Caress of Steel.
Getting that sentence completely wrong would have been wrong. And now I am confused.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
If a dragon can breathe fire or i get turned into a giant ape and rip his jaw off.....then a whip can push lol. Very odd of you to say something like that.
Well like he said he's not actually shoving with the whip, hes using it to trip. He's merely using the shove attack in the rule to justify the ability, since there's no direct trip attack. Otherwise you know we might need a rule for a chop attack over a punch. Its just flavor that makes some sense.
... I am wondering if you can use the Whip's reach to essentially trip (shove) an enemy and knock them flat at 10 ft.
One thing to consider is, if such a maneuver is successful, you may be imposing your own disadvantage on subsequent attacks if you stay 10ft away, as that is what happens when a creature has the prone condition.
Isnt the rule if its ranged attack vs if its melee attack, which the whip is still considered a melee attack.
First off, I am one of those players that likes to put flavour over min/maxing (at least to a point)
That said, I am currently working on an AL character that I plan to eventually use to dual wield whips while Bladesinging.
One strategy is going to be to utilize Spell Sniper to hit an enemy with Booming Blade at 10ft range, thus making them have to move in order to hit attack me.
My question is on the type of tactics I can use to make whips better (since they unfortunately have low damage). Specifically, this time with the Shove action. Since this action can be used to either push a target back or knock them prone, I am wondering if you can use the Whip's reach to essentially trip (shove) an enemy and knock them flat at 10 ft.
I am also interested in hearing if anyone else has any other strategies/tactics
No need to use two whips - if you use Booming Blade you can’t use an offhand attack.
Technically, you're not shoving with a string. You shove with the force behind it and those weights at the end can definitely act as a medium to transfer that force.
Since I originally asked this question so many years ago, I have learned a few new tricks.
For damage, a 2-level dip into Paladin (though mad) allows great nova damage with smites (up to 3/turn).
Rogue certainly comes up second with Sneak Attack. X2 if 17 levels into Scout subclass.
For Bladesinger, there is the nice damage boost of +Int on each damage roll with a melee weapon. We also now have access to Tenser's Transformation for advantage and 2d12 per damage roll. If my math is right, at 20 Dex/Str and 20 Int, that's average 26/hit. Not great, but nothing to sneeze at.
Comparison, Booming Blade nets us 3d8 on the Attack and 4d8 on the splash (so avg damage is 17/hit + 18 If the enemy moves) so not as effective Tenser's Transformation, but allows you to cast spells.
Other dip options include Warlock (Hexblade) for Hexblade's Curse.
So absolute ball busting max damage with Whip would be 1 Hexblade, 2 Paladin and 17 Bladesinger. Drop Tenser's and Bladesong. Next turn, activate curse. You now Whip it for 1d4 + Str/Dex or Cha + Int + Proficiency + 2d12 (Tenser's) + 5d8 (6d8 if Fiend, Undead, etc) Smite. Avg 51dmg/hit if my math is right.
Trust me, if you got hit full force in the chest with a Bullwhip you're gonna stagger. If they hit you in the face, even more so. A whip can DEFINITELY move someone back 5ft. Anyone arguing otherwise has never seen a real whip used. The force that "little string" hits with is much nastier than you're giving it credit for.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Can always take Dual Wielder feat to wield Whips in off-hand. Combine with Battle Master or the Feat that gives you Maneuvers to gain access to the ability to trip/shove opponents with the Whips.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Roleplaying since Runequest.
One thing to consider is, if such a maneuver is successful, you may be imposing your own disadvantage on subsequent attacks if you stay 10ft away, as that is what happens when a creature has the prone condition.
True, but usually knocking something prone is done to provide advantage to other party members that deal a bit more damage.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Please, even that mangling of our beautiful language hurt me more than I want to think about.
You have to have something pure to show true foulness. It was no coincidence that the Temple to Paladine was the backdrop to cursed tower of High Sorcery in Palanthus. The best horror movies have moments where you laugh, the best comedies have moments of pathos, and nights of glorious debauchery have hangovers. I hesitate to mention Caress of Steel.
Getting that sentence completely wrong would have been wrong. And now I am confused.
Don't do drugs, Kids!
Roleplaying since Runequest.
FEAR THE WHIP OF ZEUS!
Maybe I should make a homebrew flame whip with knockback...
I had to go back and watch that clip again just for the expression on Ares' face.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
If a dragon can breathe fire or i get turned into a giant ape and rip his jaw off.....then a whip can push lol. Very odd of you to say something like that.
Well like he said he's not actually shoving with the whip, hes using it to trip. He's merely using the shove attack in the rule to justify the ability, since there's no direct trip attack. Otherwise you know we might need a rule for a chop attack over a punch. Its just flavor that makes some sense.
Isnt the rule if its ranged attack vs if its melee attack, which the whip is still considered a melee attack.
The third bullet in the prone condition reads as follows:
An attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll has disadvantage.
No need to use two whips - if you use Booming Blade you can’t use an offhand attack.
You sir need a better string.
Got some necromancy practitioners here...
@filcat
Technically, you're not shoving with a string. You shove with the force behind it and those weights at the end can definitely act as a medium to transfer that force.
Since I originally asked this question so many years ago, I have learned a few new tricks.
For damage, a 2-level dip into Paladin (though mad) allows great nova damage with smites (up to 3/turn).
Rogue certainly comes up second with Sneak Attack. X2 if 17 levels into Scout subclass.
For Bladesinger, there is the nice damage boost of +Int on each damage roll with a melee weapon. We also now have access to Tenser's Transformation for advantage and 2d12 per damage roll. If my math is right, at 20 Dex/Str and 20 Int, that's average 26/hit. Not great, but nothing to sneeze at.
Comparison, Booming Blade nets us 3d8 on the Attack and 4d8 on the splash (so avg damage is 17/hit + 18 If the enemy moves) so not as effective Tenser's Transformation, but allows you to cast spells.
Other dip options include Warlock (Hexblade) for Hexblade's Curse.
So absolute ball busting max damage with Whip would be 1 Hexblade, 2 Paladin and 17 Bladesinger. Drop Tenser's and Bladesong. Next turn, activate curse. You now Whip it for 1d4 + Str/Dex or Cha + Int + Proficiency + 2d12 (Tenser's) + 5d8 (6d8 if Fiend, Undead, etc) Smite. Avg 51dmg/hit if my math is right.
Trust me, if you got hit full force in the chest with a Bullwhip you're gonna stagger. If they hit you in the face, even more so. A whip can DEFINITELY move someone back 5ft. Anyone arguing otherwise has never seen a real whip used. The force that "little string" hits with is much nastier than you're giving it credit for.