Well the thing is, it deals triple base damage, so it would multiply dice by 6 on a crit instead of 2 or 3
I meant you lose the auto crits if you lose surprise by becoming giant. I know they would multiply together if you can get both.
True, that would be harder to hide, but you're using pass without trace so you have the benefit of being hidden magically
Pass without trace does not magically hide you, it only makes it easier to hide. A +10 to stealth doesn't help if the DM decides you are too big to successfully hide.
This is all true, but with RAW there is no penalty to hiding if you are bigger, so I think that there’s still a good chance you could surprise someone. Anyways, theoretically it’s possible to both get all crits either from surprise or good luck, so this x6 damage is still the max theoretical damage.
Well the thing is, it deals triple base damage, so it would multiply dice by 6 on a crit instead of 2 or 3
I meant you lose the auto crits if you lose surprise by becoming giant. I know they would multiply together if you can get both.
True, that would be harder to hide, but you're using pass without trace so you have the benefit of being hidden magically
Pass without trace does not magically hide you, it only makes it easier to hide. A +10 to stealth doesn't help if the DM decides you are too big to successfully hide.
This is all true, but with RAW there is no penalty to hiding if you are bigger, so I think that there’s still a good chance you could surprise someone. Anyways, theoretically it’s possible to both get all crits either from surprise or good luck, so this x6 damage is still the max theoretical damage.
With RAW you can go through a wide open room. With snow on the ground. That shows footprints. Wearing a rainbow air if and highly reflective mirrors on your body. And if your stealth is greater than someone’s passive perception they don’t see you.
insert meme here of Drax going “I have mastered the art of moving so slowly to be invisible”
With RAW you can go through a wide open room. With snow on the ground. That shows footprints. Wearing a rainbow air if and highly reflective mirrors on your body. And if your stealth is greater than someone’s passive perception they don’t see you.
insert meme here of Drax going “I have mastered the art of moving so slowly to be invisible”
I think it goes without saying that you would have disadvantage, and maybe raise the DC to boot. If the DM even lets you roll, since you should only roll if you have a chance to succeed.
This is like saying that a charismatic character can ask the king to give them the kingdom. It just isn't realistic and the RAW does not say you can do that.
(Also I don't know what "air if" was supposed to be before autocorrect got to it, but I get the idea).
Thanks so much! I basically had made this character but didn’t have oathbow. Still, thanks to you I have the ultimate killing machine. I made this for my friend since I prefer playing monk🙏.
Variant Human Paladin 5, Barbarian 3, Fighter 12. Have a Glaive or Halberd. Now you can kill anything. Here's how:
As Variant Human take Polearm Master. Your Strength score should start out as a 17 if you can get it there. Start out as either fighter or paladin, I recommend paladin. At level 2 choose the Fighting Style: Great Weapon Fighting, your 1's and 2's on your glaive or halberd now can be re-rolled. Minor boost for a d10, but still useful. You also get Divine Smite, which is your main ability, at level 5, you get 2nd level spell slots to use for divine smite, you be Oath of Vengeance paladin, Oath of Conquest works as well. At level 4, use your ASI to increase your Strength score to 19. You also get Extra Attack at level 5. Now become barbarian, you now have rage, so +2 damage to all your attacks, which is great, and have reckless attack, which you should do every round, and when you become level 3, choose zealot barbarian, which gives you an extra 1d6 radiant damage on your first attack on each turn, and you have advantage against all weapon attack damage. Now be Fighter up to level 12, you should be Battle Master, but Champion can be good, Eldritch Knight is good if you want more spell slots for smiting. Your main abilities will be Extra Attack at level 11 which gives you 3 attacks as part of the attack action. At level 2 fighter, you have Action Surge, which will come in handy, and another Fighting Style, I'd choose Defense or the new one from UA that gives you a Superiority Dice and some Battle Master Maneuvers. At level 3 choose any maneuvers that allow you to add the damage after you hit, such as Pushing Attack, Tripping Attack, Maneuvering Attack, Disarming Attack, and there are a few others. Your Superiority Dice are d10s. At level 4, increase your Strength up to 20, you may use a feat for this, such as Athlete or Resilient. At level 6, choose the Great Weapon Fighting feat. Level 8, I'd choose Sentinel or increase your Constitution Score. At level 10, again increase your Constitution, or take a feat, such as Lucky, Martial Adept would also work, Savage Attacker also would be great. At level 12, take another feat or ASI.
Now, lets get into how much damage you can do. You can attack 3 times each attack action, and once as a bonus action with a lesser damage dice, or if you get a critical hit on one of your attacks or killed a creature, you can attack with your blade instead of the minor attack. You also will always make your attacks with reckless attack, and if you have any magic items or abilities that allow you to crit on a 19-20, I would use it all the time. If you attack 4 times each round all at advantage, during your turn you have a 40% chance of getting a critical hit, or 80% if you crit on 19-20. I am assuming at level 20 your character has a +3 glaive or halberd. Your first attack on your turn will be 1d10+20+1d6 radiant. Your average damage for this will be 29 damage. Your second and third attacks will do 1d10+20 damage your average damage will be 25.5 damage. Your fourth attack if you didn't kill or crit during your first 3 attacks will be 1d4+20 damage, with an average of 22.5 damage, but if you did kill or crit on your first 3 attacks, your 4th attack will be identical to your 2nd and 3rd attacks. This is an average 110 damage each round, with no crits, at most 128 damage in a round, assuming you don't smite, crit, use a maneuver, or get your better bonus action attack.
Now, this is when it gets crazy, those first 4 attacks are good, so you already do a lot of damage, now if you crit on one of your first 3 attacks this is what happens. If you crit on your first attack you will deal 2d10+20+2d6 radiant damage, and you should use a maneuver, and you should use a 2nd level divine smite. The total damage dice from this would be 4d10+2d6 radiant damage+6d8 radiant damage+20. The average damage on this is 42 piercing or slashing + 34 radiant. If you crit and roll as much damage as possible on this attack, you deal 60 piercing or slashing damage + 60 radiant damage. So your average 1st attack crit does 76 damage, at most 120 damage. This is on one attack. If it is your second or third attack you deal 4d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 69 damage, at most 108 damage. If you crit on your last minor attack, you deal 2d4+2d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 63 damage, at most 98 damage.
What if you used Action Surge, crit on each attack, expending all spell slots and all 7 superiority dice while raging? Your average damage would be 431 damage, at most 688 damage. This is insane. 688 damage in one round! This is clearly the most powerful multiclass ever!
Convince me I'm wrong. Double check my math, if you would.
I know I'm late to this, but doubling your attacks doesn't double your chance of getting a critical hit. If it did, you would have a 160% chance of critting if you made 8 attacks, which isn't possible as you are never guaranteed to crit. To calculate the chance of getting at least one crit, you need to calculate 1 - (chance of no crits).
Variant Human Paladin 5, Barbarian 3, Fighter 12. Have a Glaive or Halberd. Now you can kill anything. Here's how:
As Variant Human take Polearm Master. Your Strength score should start out as a 17 if you can get it there. Start out as either fighter or paladin, I recommend paladin. At level 2 choose the Fighting Style: Great Weapon Fighting, your 1's and 2's on your glaive or halberd now can be re-rolled. Minor boost for a d10, but still useful. You also get Divine Smite, which is your main ability, at level 5, you get 2nd level spell slots to use for divine smite, you be Oath of Vengeance paladin, Oath of Conquest works as well. At level 4, use your ASI to increase your Strength score to 19. You also get Extra Attack at level 5. Now become barbarian, you now have rage, so +2 damage to all your attacks, which is great, and have reckless attack, which you should do every round, and when you become level 3, choose zealot barbarian, which gives you an extra 1d6 radiant damage on your first attack on each turn, and you have advantage against all weapon attack damage. Now be Fighter up to level 12, you should be Battle Master, but Champion can be good, Eldritch Knight is good if you want more spell slots for smiting. Your main abilities will be Extra Attack at level 11 which gives you 3 attacks as part of the attack action. At level 2 fighter, you have Action Surge, which will come in handy, and another Fighting Style, I'd choose Defense or the new one from UA that gives you a Superiority Dice and some Battle Master Maneuvers. At level 3 choose any maneuvers that allow you to add the damage after you hit, such as Pushing Attack, Tripping Attack, Maneuvering Attack, Disarming Attack, and there are a few others. Your Superiority Dice are d10s. At level 4, increase your Strength up to 20, you may use a feat for this, such as Athlete or Resilient. At level 6, choose the Great Weapon Fighting feat. Level 8, I'd choose Sentinel or increase your Constitution Score. At level 10, again increase your Constitution, or take a feat, such as Lucky, Martial Adept would also work, Savage Attacker also would be great. At level 12, take another feat or ASI.
Now, lets get into how much damage you can do. You can attack 3 times each attack action, and once as a bonus action with a lesser damage dice, or if you get a critical hit on one of your attacks or killed a creature, you can attack with your blade instead of the minor attack. You also will always make your attacks with reckless attack, and if you have any magic items or abilities that allow you to crit on a 19-20, I would use it all the time. If you attack 4 times each round all at advantage, during your turn you have a 40% chance of getting a critical hit, or 80% if you crit on 19-20. I am assuming at level 20 your character has a +3 glaive or halberd. Your first attack on your turn will be 1d10+20+1d6 radiant. Your average damage for this will be 29 damage. Your second and third attacks will do 1d10+20 damage your average damage will be 25.5 damage. Your fourth attack if you didn't kill or crit during your first 3 attacks will be 1d4+20 damage, with an average of 22.5 damage, but if you did kill or crit on your first 3 attacks, your 4th attack will be identical to your 2nd and 3rd attacks. This is an average 110 damage each round, with no crits, at most 128 damage in a round, assuming you don't smite, crit, use a maneuver, or get your better bonus action attack.
Now, this is when it gets crazy, those first 4 attacks are good, so you already do a lot of damage, now if you crit on one of your first 3 attacks this is what happens. If you crit on your first attack you will deal 2d10+20+2d6 radiant damage, and you should use a maneuver, and you should use a 2nd level divine smite. The total damage dice from this would be 4d10+2d6 radiant damage+6d8 radiant damage+20. The average damage on this is 42 piercing or slashing + 34 radiant. If you crit and roll as much damage as possible on this attack, you deal 60 piercing or slashing damage + 60 radiant damage. So your average 1st attack crit does 76 damage, at most 120 damage. This is on one attack. If it is your second or third attack you deal 4d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 69 damage, at most 108 damage. If you crit on your last minor attack, you deal 2d4+2d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 63 damage, at most 98 damage.
What if you used Action Surge, crit on each attack, expending all spell slots and all 7 superiority dice while raging? Your average damage would be 431 damage, at most 688 damage. This is insane. 688 damage in one round! This is clearly the most powerful multiclass ever!
Convince me I'm wrong. Double check my math, if you would.
I know I'm late to this, but doubling your attacks doesn't double your chance of getting a critical hit. If it did, you would have a 160% chance of critting if you made 8 attacks, which isn't possible as you are never guaranteed to crit. To calculate the chance of getting at least one crit, you need to calculate 1 - (chance of no crits).
Allow me to calculate: Each of the four attacks at advantage would have a chance of critting equal to 1-(19/20)^2. This comes out to 9.75%.
For all four attacks at advantage, set the formula to 1-(19/20)^8, and you find that for all four attacks the chance of critting at least once would be about 33.658%, not 40%.
Math is fun, so let's check with a 19-20 crit range: 1-(18/20)^8, which is about 56.95%, way less than 80%
_____
Overall, Third_Sundering's crit chance calculations were off by over 20% for one of the situations, but the build is an impressive damager, and over a 50% chance of critting in one round is quite powerful.
If anyone thinks these calculations don't make sense or are wrong, I can elaborate on why these work in future posts.
I was over looking the build and it is pretty solid. However, I was confused and found myself scratching my head after reading that you would be able to make 8 attacks.
I can assume you would achieve this by action surging and factoring in the extra attack you'd get from the ranger class. In theory that would work, but as rules are written you cannot stack extra attack that is obtained from an additional class feature or ability. By obtaining it from fighter you would have 3 extra attacks with a maximum of 6 per turn. Even though ranger states you can pick up another extra attack you wouldn't be able to factor that into your action economy as the rules do not allow it. This can be negated due to the DM's discretion, but thought I'd point that out.
I'm sure you already knew this, and as you stated earlier this was all in theory, but figured I'd state a counter argument for those who may not be aware of the ruling. If I am somehow mistaken and have overlooked something, feel free to enlighten me as I am greatly interested in using a powerhouse like this in a future campaign. I myself would love to abuse a potential 8 attacks in a single round action economy doing absurd damage that would make any DM cry. Lol.
I was over looking the build and it is pretty solid. However, I was confused and found myself scratching my head after reading that you would be able to make 8 attacks.
I can assume you would achieve this by action surging and factoring in the extra attack you'd get from the ranger class. In theory that would work, but as rules are written you cannot stack extra attack that is obtained from an additional class feature or ability.
It is from dread ambush. 1 bonus attack that deals 1d8 bonus damage per attack action on first turn of combat. The build is completely RAW.
You only get 8 attacks on turn 1 (3 from extra attack, 1 from dread ambush, ×2 action surge). After that you have 3 attacks per attack action.
Thank you so much for replying. This cleared up quite a bit. I'm glad the build is as it appears to be.
One thing that made absolutely no sense to me as I went to recreate the exact some build, how is it possible for them to have gotten expertise I'm 3 skills when rogue at that level only grants 2?
Thank you so much for replying. This cleared up quite a bit. I'm glad the build is as it appears to be.
One thing that made absolutely no sense to me as I went to recreate the exact some build, how is it possible for them to have gotten expertise I'm 3 skills when rogue at that level only grants 2?
Survival expertise is from deft explorer ranger optional feature.
Variant Human Paladin 5, Barbarian 3, Fighter 12. Have a Glaive or Halberd. Now you can kill anything. Here's how:
As Variant Human take Polearm Master. Your Strength score should start out as a 17 if you can get it there. Start out as either fighter or paladin, I recommend paladin. At level 2 choose the Fighting Style: Great Weapon Fighting, your 1's and 2's on your glaive or halberd now can be re-rolled. Minor boost for a d10, but still useful. You also get Divine Smite, which is your main ability, at level 5, you get 2nd level spell slots to use for divine smite, you be Oath of Vengeance paladin, Oath of Conquest works as well. At level 4, use your ASI to increase your Strength score to 19. You also get Extra Attack at level 5. Now become barbarian, you now have rage, so +2 damage to all your attacks, which is great, and have reckless attack, which you should do every round, and when you become level 3, choose zealot barbarian, which gives you an extra 1d6 radiant damage on your first attack on each turn, and you have advantage against all weapon attack damage. Now be Fighter up to level 12, you should be Battle Master, but Champion can be good, Eldritch Knight is good if you want more spell slots for smiting. Your main abilities will be Extra Attack at level 11 which gives you 3 attacks as part of the attack action. At level 2 fighter, you have Action Surge, which will come in handy, and another Fighting Style, I'd choose Defense or the new one from UA that gives you a Superiority Dice and some Battle Master Maneuvers. At level 3 choose any maneuvers that allow you to add the damage after you hit, such as Pushing Attack, Tripping Attack, Maneuvering Attack, Disarming Attack, and there are a few others. Your Superiority Dice are d10s. At level 4, increase your Strength up to 20, you may use a feat for this, such as Athlete or Resilient. At level 6, choose the Great Weapon Fighting feat. Level 8, I'd choose Sentinel or increase your Constitution Score. At level 10, again increase your Constitution, or take a feat, such as Lucky, Martial Adept would also work, Savage Attacker also would be great. At level 12, take another feat or ASI.
Now, lets get into how much damage you can do. You can attack 3 times each attack action, and once as a bonus action with a lesser damage dice, or if you get a critical hit on one of your attacks or killed a creature, you can attack with your blade instead of the minor attack. You also will always make your attacks with reckless attack, and if you have any magic items or abilities that allow you to crit on a 19-20, I would use it all the time. If you attack 4 times each round all at advantage, during your turn you have a 40% chance of getting a critical hit, or 80% if you crit on 19-20. I am assuming at level 20 your character has a +3 glaive or halberd. Your first attack on your turn will be 1d10+20+1d6 radiant. Your average damage for this will be 29 damage. Your second and third attacks will do 1d10+20 damage your average damage will be 25.5 damage. Your fourth attack if you didn't kill or crit during your first 3 attacks will be 1d4+20 damage, with an average of 22.5 damage, but if you did kill or crit on your first 3 attacks, your 4th attack will be identical to your 2nd and 3rd attacks. This is an average 110 damage each round, with no crits, at most 128 damage in a round, assuming you don't smite, crit, use a maneuver, or get your better bonus action attack.
Now, this is when it gets crazy, those first 4 attacks are good, so you already do a lot of damage, now if you crit on one of your first 3 attacks this is what happens. If you crit on your first attack you will deal 2d10+20+2d6 radiant damage, and you should use a maneuver, and you should use a 2nd level divine smite. The total damage dice from this would be 4d10+2d6 radiant damage+6d8 radiant damage+20. The average damage on this is 42 piercing or slashing + 34 radiant. If you crit and roll as much damage as possible on this attack, you deal 60 piercing or slashing damage + 60 radiant damage. So your average 1st attack crit does 76 damage, at most 120 damage. This is on one attack. If it is your second or third attack you deal 4d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 69 damage, at most 108 damage. If you crit on your last minor attack, you deal 2d4+2d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 63 damage, at most 98 damage.
What if you used Action Surge, crit on each attack, expending all spell slots and all 7 superiority dice while raging? Your average damage would be 431 damage, at most 688 damage. This is insane. 688 damage in one round! This is clearly the most powerful multiclass ever!
Convince me I'm wrong. Double check my math, if you would.
Variant Human Paladin 5, Barbarian 3, Fighter 12. Have a Glaive or Halberd. Now you can kill anything. Here's how:
As Variant Human take Polearm Master. Your Strength score should start out as a 17 if you can get it there. Start out as either fighter or paladin, I recommend paladin. At level 2 choose the Fighting Style: Great Weapon Fighting, your 1's and 2's on your glaive or halberd now can be re-rolled. Minor boost for a d10, but still useful. You also get Divine Smite, which is your main ability, at level 5, you get 2nd level spell slots to use for divine smite, you be Oath of Vengeance paladin, Oath of Conquest works as well. At level 4, use your ASI to increase your Strength score to 19. You also get Extra Attack at level 5. Now become barbarian, you now have rage, so +2 damage to all your attacks, which is great, and have reckless attack, which you should do every round, and when you become level 3, choose zealot barbarian, which gives you an extra 1d6 radiant damage on your first attack on each turn, and you have advantage against all weapon attack damage. Now be Fighter up to level 12, you should be Battle Master, but Champion can be good, Eldritch Knight is good if you want more spell slots for smiting. Your main abilities will be Extra Attack at level 11 which gives you 3 attacks as part of the attack action. At level 2 fighter, you have Action Surge, which will come in handy, and another Fighting Style, I'd choose Defense or the new one from UA that gives you a Superiority Dice and some Battle Master Maneuvers. At level 3 choose any maneuvers that allow you to add the damage after you hit, such as Pushing Attack, Tripping Attack, Maneuvering Attack, Disarming Attack, and there are a few others. Your Superiority Dice are d10s. At level 4, increase your Strength up to 20, you may use a feat for this, such as Athlete or Resilient. At level 6, choose the Great Weapon Fighting feat. Level 8, I'd choose Sentinel or increase your Constitution Score. At level 10, again increase your Constitution, or take a feat, such as Lucky, Martial Adept would also work, Savage Attacker also would be great. At level 12, take another feat or ASI.
Now, lets get into how much damage you can do. You can attack 3 times each attack action, and once as a bonus action with a lesser damage dice, or if you get a critical hit on one of your attacks or killed a creature, you can attack with your blade instead of the minor attack. You also will always make your attacks with reckless attack, and if you have any magic items or abilities that allow you to crit on a 19-20, I would use it all the time. If you attack 4 times each round all at advantage, during your turn you have a 40% chance of getting a critical hit, or 80% if you crit on 19-20. I am assuming at level 20 your character has a +3 glaive or halberd. Your first attack on your turn will be 1d10+20+1d6 radiant. Your average damage for this will be 29 damage. Your second and third attacks will do 1d10+20 damage your average damage will be 25.5 damage. Your fourth attack if you didn't kill or crit during your first 3 attacks will be 1d4+20 damage, with an average of 22.5 damage, but if you did kill or crit on your first 3 attacks, your 4th attack will be identical to your 2nd and 3rd attacks. This is an average 110 damage each round, with no crits, at most 128 damage in a round, assuming you don't smite, crit, use a maneuver, or get your better bonus action attack.
Now, this is when it gets crazy, those first 4 attacks are good, so you already do a lot of damage, now if you crit on one of your first 3 attacks this is what happens. If you crit on your first attack you will deal 2d10+20+2d6 radiant damage, and you should use a maneuver, and you should use a 2nd level divine smite. The total damage dice from this would be 4d10+2d6 radiant damage+6d8 radiant damage+20. The average damage on this is 42 piercing or slashing + 34 radiant. If you crit and roll as much damage as possible on this attack, you deal 60 piercing or slashing damage + 60 radiant damage. So your average 1st attack crit does 76 damage, at most 120 damage. This is on one attack. If it is your second or third attack you deal 4d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 69 damage, at most 108 damage. If you crit on your last minor attack, you deal 2d4+2d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 63 damage, at most 98 damage.
What if you used Action Surge, crit on each attack, expending all spell slots and all 7 superiority dice while raging? Your average damage would be 431 damage, at most 688 damage. This is insane. 688 damage in one round! This is clearly the most powerful multiclass ever!
Convince me I'm wrong. Double check my math, if you would.
What do they do on turn 2?
Loot the bodies? Use their Channel Divinity to Harness Divine Power to get off one more smite combined with the rest of their damaging features (Improved Divine Smite, Great Weapon Master, Rage, etc). They're still powerful even when they're not Nova-ing. However, the point of a nova build is to kill other monsters before they can go, thus preventing damage/debuffs in the future. Why plan for turn 2 if turn 1 kills 90% of monsters in the game?
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Wait. If you make 4 attacks a round and crit on a 19-20, you still only have a 10% chance to crit. The % isn't how often you will get a cit on your turn it's how often you will crit on any given attack. Advantage on an attack with a crit range of 19-20 yields a chance to crit of 19%. Right? https://anydice.com/program/16a1
Wait. If you make 4 attacks a round and crit on a 19-20, you still only have a 10% chance to crit. The % isn't how often you will get a cit on your turn it's how often you will crit on any given attack. Advantage on an attack with a crit range of 19-20 yields a chance to crit of 19%. Right? https://anydice.com/program/16a1
Correct. That is why I ignore criticals in my damage calculations unless it is increased or guaranteed by a feature and then adjust accordingly.
Most other theory crafters on these threads do not share my attention to detail though. "Crits make numbers go brrr."
With RAW you can go through a wide open room. With snow on the ground. That shows footprints. Wearing a rainbow air if and highly reflective mirrors on your body. And if your stealth is greater than someone’s passive perception they don’t see you.
insert meme here of Drax going “I have mastered the art of moving so slowly to be invisible”
I think it goes without saying that you would have disadvantage, and maybe raise the DC to boot. If the DM even lets you roll, since you should only roll if you have a chance to succeed.
This is like saying that a charismatic character can ask the king to give them the kingdom. It just isn't realistic and the RAW does not say you can do that.
(Also I don't know what "air if" was supposed to be before autocorrect got to it, but I get the idea).
Not comparable to your persuasion for kingdom scenario.
just because there’s snow on the ground. And I have bright colors on. Does not mean that I cannot be moving about very silently. The mirrors is what would give the disadvantage I agree. But, with snow on the ground, that can also just be the snow reflecting it too. So DM discretion. I specifically gave this hyperbole example of ridiculousness the way it is because picture wise. It’s ludicrous, but mechanically. Nothing in it means instant failure.
With RAW you can go through a wide open room. With snow on the ground. That shows footprints. Wearing a rainbow air if and highly reflective mirrors on your body. And if your stealth is greater than someone’s passive perception they don’t see you.
insert meme here of Drax going “I have mastered the art of moving so slowly to be invisible”
I think it goes without saying that you would have disadvantage, and maybe raise the DC to boot. If the DM even lets you roll, since you should only roll if you have a chance to succeed.
This is like saying that a charismatic character can ask the king to give them the kingdom. It just isn't realistic and the RAW does not say you can do that.
(Also I don't know what "air if" was supposed to be before autocorrect got to it, but I get the idea).
Not comparable to your persuasion for kingdom scenario.
just because there’s snow on the ground. And I have bright colors on. Does not mean that I cannot be moving about very silently. The mirrors is what would give the disadvantage I agree. But, with snow on the ground, that can also just be the snow reflecting it too. So DM discretion. I specifically gave this hyperbole example of ridiculousness the way it is because picture wise. It’s ludicrous, but mechanically. Nothing in it means instant failure.
Your post only mentions sight. And in the described scenario, you are about as invisible as the sun. You can even be moving completely silently behind someone and there is a significant chance they notice you before even turning around. Assuming you aren't in total darkness, the mirrors will reflect light all over the place.
Comparing it to asking a king for their kingdom was hyperbolic, but completely comparable. Both are situations where allowing a player to roll for it to succeed could lead to an illogical conclusion (king gives away their kingdom=guard doesn't notice the human disco ball dancing in front of them).
The king example is a classic "you can't even roll for that because it won't work" situation. I was only suggesting that this is in that same vein.
Go for Wizard (Evocation), use Spirit Shroud and cast as many Scorching rays as you can.
At level 20, multiclassing in sorcerer for quickened metamagic, you are going to deal 34d6+85d8+85 = 586 damage (average) in one round, and it is scaling really well
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This is all true, but with RAW there is no penalty to hiding if you are bigger, so I think that there’s still a good chance you could surprise someone. Anyways, theoretically it’s possible to both get all crits either from surprise or good luck, so this x6 damage is still the max theoretical damage.
With RAW you can go through a wide open room. With snow on the ground. That shows footprints. Wearing a rainbow air if and highly reflective mirrors on your body. And if your stealth is greater than someone’s passive perception they don’t see you.
insert meme here of Drax going “I have mastered the art of moving so slowly to be invisible”
Blank
I think it goes without saying that you would have disadvantage, and maybe raise the DC to boot. If the DM even lets you roll, since you should only roll if you have a chance to succeed.
This is like saying that a charismatic character can ask the king to give them the kingdom. It just isn't realistic and the RAW does not say you can do that.
(Also I don't know what "air if" was supposed to be before autocorrect got to it, but I get the idea).
Thanks so much! I basically had made this character but didn’t have oathbow. Still, thanks to you I have the ultimate killing machine. I made this for my friend since I prefer playing monk🙏.
I know I'm late to this, but doubling your attacks doesn't double your chance of getting a critical hit. If it did, you would have a 160% chance of critting if you made 8 attacks, which isn't possible as you are never guaranteed to crit. To calculate the chance of getting at least one crit, you need to calculate 1 - (chance of no crits).
Allow me to calculate: Each of the four attacks at advantage would have a chance of critting equal to 1-(19/20)^2. This comes out to 9.75%.
For all four attacks at advantage, set the formula to 1-(19/20)^8, and you find that for all four attacks the chance of critting at least once would be about 33.658%, not 40%.
Math is fun, so let's check with a 19-20 crit range: 1-(18/20)^8, which is about 56.95%, way less than 80%
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Overall, Third_Sundering's crit chance calculations were off by over 20% for one of the situations, but the build is an impressive damager, and over a 50% chance of critting in one round is quite powerful.
If anyone thinks these calculations don't make sense or are wrong, I can elaborate on why these work in future posts.
Proud poster on the Create a World thread
I was over looking the build and it is pretty solid. However, I was confused and found myself scratching my head after reading that you would be able to make 8 attacks.
I can assume you would achieve this by action surging and factoring in the extra attack you'd get from the ranger class. In theory that would work, but as rules are written you cannot stack extra attack that is obtained from an additional class feature or ability. By obtaining it from fighter you would have 3 extra attacks with a maximum of 6 per turn. Even though ranger states you can pick up another extra attack you wouldn't be able to factor that into your action economy as the rules do not allow it. This can be negated due to the DM's discretion, but thought I'd point that out.
I'm sure you already knew this, and as you stated earlier this was all in theory, but figured I'd state a counter argument for those who may not be aware of the ruling. If I am somehow mistaken and have overlooked something, feel free to enlighten me as I am greatly interested in using a powerhouse like this in a future campaign. I myself would love to abuse a potential 8 attacks in a single round action economy doing absurd damage that would make any DM cry. Lol.
It is from dread ambush. 1 bonus attack that deals 1d8 bonus damage per attack action on first turn of combat. The build is completely RAW.
You only get 8 attacks on turn 1 (3 from extra attack, 1 from dread ambush, ×2 action surge). After that you have 3 attacks per attack action.
Thank you so much for replying. This cleared up quite a bit. I'm glad the build is as it appears to be.
One thing that made absolutely no sense to me as I went to recreate the exact some build, how is it possible for them to have gotten expertise I'm 3 skills when rogue at that level only grants 2?
TCoE Ranger I think.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Survival expertise is from deft explorer ranger optional feature.
What do they do on turn 2?
Let the rest of the party participate. Loot the body.
We are talking about damage focus builds that could potentially 1 shot CR 30 monsters.
Loot the bodies? Use their Channel Divinity to Harness Divine Power to get off one more smite combined with the rest of their damaging features (Improved Divine Smite, Great Weapon Master, Rage, etc). They're still powerful even when they're not Nova-ing. However, the point of a nova build is to kill other monsters before they can go, thus preventing damage/debuffs in the future. Why plan for turn 2 if turn 1 kills 90% of monsters in the game?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Wait. If you make 4 attacks a round and crit on a 19-20, you still only have a 10% chance to crit. The % isn't how often you will get a cit on your turn it's how often you will crit on any given attack. Advantage on an attack with a crit range of 19-20 yields a chance to crit of 19%. Right? https://anydice.com/program/16a1
Correct. That is why I ignore criticals in my damage calculations unless it is increased or guaranteed by a feature and then adjust accordingly.
Most other theory crafters on these threads do not share my attention to detail though. "Crits make numbers go brrr."
Not comparable to your persuasion for kingdom scenario.
just because there’s snow on the ground. And I have bright colors on. Does not mean that I cannot be moving about very silently. The mirrors is what would give the disadvantage I agree. But, with snow on the ground, that can also just be the snow reflecting it too. So DM discretion. I specifically gave this hyperbole example of ridiculousness the way it is because picture wise. It’s ludicrous, but mechanically. Nothing in it means instant failure.
Blank
Your post only mentions sight. And in the described scenario, you are about as invisible as the sun. You can even be moving completely silently behind someone and there is a significant chance they notice you before even turning around. Assuming you aren't in total darkness, the mirrors will reflect light all over the place.
Comparing it to asking a king for their kingdom was hyperbolic, but completely comparable. Both are situations where allowing a player to roll for it to succeed could lead to an illogical conclusion (king gives away their kingdom=guard doesn't notice the human disco ball dancing in front of them).
The king example is a classic "you can't even roll for that because it won't work" situation. I was only suggesting that this is in that same vein.
"The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding."
Go for Wizard (Evocation), use Spirit Shroud and cast as many Scorching rays as you can.
At level 20, multiclassing in sorcerer for quickened metamagic, you are going to deal 34d6+85d8+85 = 586 damage (average) in one round, and it is scaling really well