point buy, 8,15,8,8,15,15. Rogue. Pick races that modify wis/dex/cha. With magic items that aren’t even hard to acquire, you will still have a 19 str, con, and INT. So, let’s go half elf. +2 cha, +1 dex and wis.
8/16/8/8/16/17. Very easily. Becomes 19/20/19/19/16/20 - with eleven accuracy and 2 more feats of your choice. Or if you don’t want the 2 extra feats.
19/20/19/19/20/20 with eleven accuracy. Any subclass. Doesn’t matter.
point buy, 8,15,8,8,15,15. Rogue. Pick races that modify wis/dex/cha. With magic items that aren’t even hard to acquire, you will still have a 19 str, con, and INT. So, let’s go half elf. +2 cha, +1 dex and wis.
8/16/8/8/16/17. Very easily. Becomes 19/20/19/19/16/20 - with eleven accuracy and 2 more feats of your choice. Or if you don’t want the 2 extra feats.
19/20/19/19/20/20 with eleven accuracy. Any subclass. Doesn’t matter.
not a whole lot of different builds being mentioned, i have a couple that aren't super min maxed but they have a strong focus. When I get a moment I will post them with their reasoning, see what people think.
Mostly based around the idea of dealing with magic users, as a gnome get advantage on saving throws vs Int Wis Cha, good saves for physical from stats and class. Skills are all mostly meh with stealth being an exception, Rune knight abilities can be used to gain resistance to slash pierce bludgeon, or if an enemy ends their turn within 30 ft they make a wis save or be charmed and have zero movement speed. Lock em down or remove their ally, if you need to physically restrain someone suddenly use the giant size and have advantage on grapple checks and some extra damage. Booming Blade to try and keep an enemy in range for the charm effect. Mostly defensive type spells, absorb elements, shield, sleep, color spray, Onomancy true name ability to try and charm for a single turn and then use bane on them if successful or bless on yourself if it fails. Using the Feat for Gnomes Fade Away (lots of others could be as good or better) just for the ability to disappear for a turn and get a chance to recover if things go poorly. Nothing hugely broken but would do well at a few things.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Creep factor Divine Smiter, Intimidation skill is good, Charisma save to avoid going unconscious, and Pact of the Blade with the Invocation for a stronger weapon. Fun things like the tentacles to use up bonus actions, A couple spells that recharge on a short rest, not really looking at stockpiling sorcery points with short rests, but if there is one unused maybe (depending on the dm). The standard melee cantrips (Booming, Green, and sword burst) and eldritch blast for ranged attacking. Devil sight to take advantage of using the drow darkness spell for advantage, shadow blade for occasional night work for a damage boost. Some defensive spells for general use, Hex, a smite spell when hex isn't warranted. Pretty common concept for a potent smiter, but I like having the added bonus of the tentacles to use up bonus actions consistently when not in use for casting any spells. Reaction saved for shield or absorb elements depending on what you're being attacked with.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Movement bonus from the wood elf and the extra 10 from blade flourish make for some strong mobility, in conjunction with swashbuckler and cunning action makes for extremely mobile in and out of combat attacker. The concept behind him is someone who annoys people with his bagpipe playing to sucker them into a duel. Longstrider to further increase movement when needed, lots of mind affecting spells from UA with only ID insinuation using concetration. I guess it is not super exceptional, but good one on one fighter.
Perhaps this will get some conversations started, most of these are relatively low level and i have not given a huge amount of thought of where they will go from here. Lots of options in terms of level balance and feats/stats.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Variant Human Paladin 5, Barbarian 3, Fighter 12. Have a Glaive or Halberd. Now you can kill anything. Here's how:
As Variant Human take Polearm Master. Your Strength score should start out as a 17 if you can get it there. Start out as either fighter or paladin, I recommend paladin. At level 2 choose the Fighting Style: Great Weapon Fighting, your 1's and 2's on your glaive or halberd now can be re-rolled. Minor boost for a d10, but still useful. You also get Divine Smite, which is your main ability, at level 5, you get 2nd level spell slots to use for divine smite, you be Oath of Vengeance paladin, Oath of Conquest works as well. At level 4, use your ASI to increase your Strength score to 19. You also get Extra Attack at level 5. Now become barbarian, you now have rage, so +2 damage to all your attacks, which is great, and have reckless attack, which you should do every round, and when you become level 3, choose zealot barbarian, which gives you an extra 1d6 radiant damage on your first attack on each turn, and you have advantage against all weapon attack damage. Now be Fighter up to level 12, you should be Battle Master, but Champion can be good, Eldritch Knight is good if you want more spell slots for smiting. Your main abilities will be Extra Attack at level 11 which gives you 3 attacks as part of the attack action. At level 2 fighter, you have Action Surge, which will come in handy, and another Fighting Style, I'd choose Defense or the new one from UA that gives you a Superiority Dice and some Battle Master Maneuvers. At level 3 choose any maneuvers that allow you to add the damage after you hit, such as Pushing Attack, Tripping Attack, Maneuvering Attack, Disarming Attack, and there are a few others. Your Superiority Dice are d10s. At level 4, increase your Strength up to 20, you may use a feat for this, such as Athlete or Resilient. At level 6, choose the Great Weapon Fighting feat. Level 8, I'd choose Sentinel or increase your Constitution Score. At level 10, again increase your Constitution, or take a feat, such as Lucky, Martial Adept would also work, Savage Attacker also would be great. At level 12, take another feat or ASI.
Now, lets get into how much damage you can do. You can attack 3 times each attack action, and once as a bonus action with a lesser damage dice, or if you get a critical hit on one of your attacks or killed a creature, you can attack with your blade instead of the minor attack. You also will always make your attacks with reckless attack, and if you have any magic items or abilities that allow you to crit on a 19-20, I would use it all the time. If you attack 4 times each round all at advantage, during your turn you have a 40% chance of getting a critical hit, or 80% if you crit on 19-20. I am assuming at level 20 your character has a +3 glaive or halberd. Your first attack on your turn will be 1d10+20+1d6 radiant. Your average damage for this will be 29 damage. Your second and third attacks will do 1d10+20 damage your average damage will be 25.5 damage. Your fourth attack if you didn't kill or crit during your first 3 attacks will be 1d4+20 damage, with an average of 22.5 damage, but if you did kill or crit on your first 3 attacks, your 4th attack will be identical to your 2nd and 3rd attacks. This is an average 110 damage each round, with no crits, at most 128 damage in a round, assuming you don't smite, crit, use a maneuver, or get your better bonus action attack.
Now, this is when it gets crazy, those first 4 attacks are good, so you already do a lot of damage, now if you crit on one of your first 3 attacks this is what happens. If you crit on your first attack you will deal 2d10+20+2d6 radiant damage, and you should use a maneuver, and you should use a 2nd level divine smite. The total damage dice from this would be 4d10+2d6 radiant damage+6d8 radiant damage+20. The average damage on this is 42 piercing or slashing + 34 radiant. If you crit and roll as much damage as possible on this attack, you deal 60 piercing or slashing damage + 60 radiant damage. So your average 1st attack crit does 76 damage, at most 120 damage. This is on one attack. If it is your second or third attack you deal 4d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 69 damage, at most 108 damage. If you crit on your last minor attack, you deal 2d4+2d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 63 damage, at most 98 damage.
What if you used Action Surge, crit on each attack, expending all spell slots and all 7 superiority dice while raging? Your average damage would be 431 damage, at most 688 damage. This is insane. 688 damage in one round!
I posted this on a different thread, just thought it could be applied here.
Can you think of any official ways to make it better? Obviously the Rune Knight Fighter could significantly increase damage in large form, but I'd prefer some official ways.
my favorite character might be relegated to NPC status shortly after attaining power, and it isn't a build exactly, more like a guideline. first off, simulacrum and true polymorph are awesome. you can create a duplicate of yourself, which is at least 17th level, then true polymorph it into any CR17 or lower monster. any creature created can have geas cast on it or something to make it obey you. chose a sphinx and use it's lair action to go back in time (10 years forward or backward.) you are now a time traveling wizard. turn another simulacrum into a vampire, and then turn a rock into a person. have the vampire kill the rock-person and turn them into a vampire spawn. then have the spawn feed on the vampire to become another vampire. rinse and repeat for high level polymorph fodder. use the sphinx if you need more time. polymorph a vampire into anything you want of a lower CR, my favorite is a gold dragon wyrmling, even though you don't need to use a vampire for this. put the wyrmling in the shadow fell (sphinx lair action to planeshift, or just a planeshift spell.) and make sure it is 800 years ago. bam. instant ancient gold shadow dragon. that has to be at least CR30, given how intense it is. you can use that for polymorph fodder as well, to make an army of terrasques or tiamats, or anything really. technically you don't even need the sphinx if you have enough clone spells and a tolerant DM, but besides the sphinx lair actions, this is a 100 percent rules legal wizard build.
so the sphinx just gets be in a lair anywhere they are? not sure thats how lair actions work.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
HeroZero, not any where, but any WHEN. The plane shift can be used after they time travel, but as I said this requires a VERY lenient DM to even start working. It is just fun to think of 17th level wizard shenanigans.
I'm trying a Sorcadin now and it seems to be pretty awesome. First 2 levels of Paladin then on to draconic sorcerer for the rest. Be a full spell level behind other casters, but will eventually have full casting all the way to level 9. Granted you only get one attack unless you quicken booming or greenflame blade but a whole lot of smites and full casting while having plate and an additional health point per level with draconic bloodline. Then at higher levels you have full flight capability to get into melee, quicken you green flame, and smite away!
Be a divination wizard. Wait until you get a portent dice rolled 1-5, should just take a few days. Cast polymorph on anything you want to kill, turn it into a frog, or anything under 100 hit points. Then, power word kill it. Now, you can kill anything, except creatures with legendary resistances, which you'll need party team work to kill.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
point buy, 8,15,8,8,15,15. Rogue. Pick races that modify wis/dex/cha. With magic items that aren’t even hard to acquire, you will still have a 19 str, con, and INT. So, let’s go half elf. +2 cha, +1 dex and wis.
8/16/8/8/16/17. Very easily. Becomes 19/20/19/19/16/20 - with eleven accuracy and 2 more feats of your choice. Or if you don’t want the 2 extra feats.
19/20/19/19/20/20 with eleven accuracy. Any subclass. Doesn’t matter.
You and I have played very different games.
Never played AL have you?
This is completely wrong. For one, having that score in every stat isn’t possible unless you’re using all attuned items or slot-wasting Tomes, both of which are a complete waste.
Second, sacrificing slots to get those scores is an absolute waste of time and actually not even a good character to play. It’ll still have crappy saves, the same attack bonus as everyone else... it’s not min-maxed at all. It’s just “stat ******”.
point buy, 8,15,8,8,15,15. Rogue. Pick races that modify wis/dex/cha. With magic items that aren’t even hard to acquire, you will still have a 19 str, con, and INT. So, let’s go half elf. +2 cha, +1 dex and wis.
8/16/8/8/16/17. Very easily. Becomes 19/20/19/19/16/20 - with eleven accuracy and 2 more feats of your choice. Or if you don’t want the 2 extra feats.
19/20/19/19/20/20 with eleven accuracy. Any subclass. Doesn’t matter.
You and I have played very different games.
Never played AL have you?
This is completely wrong. For one, having that score in every stat isn’t possible unless you’re using all attuned items or slot-wasting Tomes, both of which are a complete waste.
Second, sacrificing slots to get those scores is an absolute waste of time and actually not even a good character to play. It’ll still have crappy saves, the same attack bonus as everyone else... it’s not min-maxed at all. It’s just “stat ******”.
It’s only not a good character if you don’t have fun. You tip your hand you are the power gamer type.
and 2. You contradict your own first paragraph yourself.
and to your it’s not min-maxes it’s just “Star ******”. That would depend on if combat is the only thing you believe one can min max for.
theres a reason I said any subclass of Rogue there.
and If you don’t think having a reliable talent have anything be a 14 at the worst roll for you. Whether proficient, expertise, or not, isn’t a powerful thing. Then, I’m intrigued to know how the campaigns you play/run operate.
ex: stand that rogue within 30 ft of a paladin with 20 cha. minimum saves +9 every single stat.🤷🏼♂️ woth proficiency in Dex, Wis, and Int.
cant make you like something. But it is what it is. And it maintains my point. There’s literally an infinite number of ways to min-max.
Plus that’s just going off easy to acquire items.
want to be a muscle rogue? Do the same thing but noW with a legendary belt of storm giant strength 29/20/19/19/20/20
Did someone say 29/20/19/19/16/20 grappler feat rogue assassin who sneaks in, and assassinates the living s out of people andnif they live grapples them our muscles and sneak attack stabs them to death?
You’re a rogue. People, npcs, monsters don’t instantly know your class unless it’s obvious. Rogue like that. Easily convince people you’re a ranger (scout) or a fighter (any) or a wizard (arcane trickster) or artificer (arcane trickster) or a bard (any).
combat is not 100% o D&D there buddy. So before you flame people think of that.
One build that I remember encountering, but which I didn't see the full character sheet for, was a rogue/warlock build. Basically they stuck with warlock just long enough to get Devil's Sight and the Darkness spell... then they would just cast darkness centered on an object they were carrying (I think it was their rapier), then just walked around getting free sneak attacks against anything they faced and the ability to stealth just about anywhere. I think the character also had Warcaster to help them keep up concentration on their darkness... either way I don't know all the details, but it ended up being a character that was a huge pain in the ass for both the DM and the rest of the party, since we were effectively blinded by them half the time as well and they ended up getting most of the kills for the session.
point buy, 8,15,8,8,15,15. Rogue. Pick races that modify wis/dex/cha. With magic items that aren’t even hard to acquire, you will still have a 19 str, con, and INT. So, let’s go half elf. +2 cha, +1 dex and wis.
8/16/8/8/16/17. Very easily. Becomes 19/20/19/19/16/20 - with eleven accuracy and 2 more feats of your choice. Or if you don’t want the 2 extra feats.
19/20/19/19/20/20 with eleven accuracy. Any subclass. Doesn’t matter.
You and I have played very different games.
Never played AL have you?
This is completely wrong. For one, having that score in every stat isn’t possible unless you’re using all attuned items or slot-wasting Tomes, both of which are a complete waste.
Second, sacrificing slots to get those scores is an absolute waste of time and actually not even a good character to play. It’ll still have crappy saves, the same attack bonus as everyone else... it’s not min-maxed at all. It’s just “stat ******”.
It’s only not a good character if you don’t have fun. You tip your hand you are the power gamer type.
and 2. You contradict your own first paragraph yourself.
and to your it’s not min-maxes it’s just “Star ******”. That would depend on if combat is the only thing you believe one can min max for.
theres a reason I said any subclass of Rogue there.
and If you don’t think having a reliable talent have anything be a 14 at the worst roll for you. Whether proficient, expertise, or not, isn’t a powerful thing. Then, I’m intrigued to know how the campaigns you play/run operate.
ex: stand that rogue within 30 ft of a paladin with 20 cha. minimum saves +9 every single stat.🤷🏼♂️
cant make you like something. But it is what it is. And it maintains my point. There’s literally an infinite number of ways to min-max.
So you’re making a ****** skill-monkey? Your posts here have been about how you easy it is to “Break” not only 5e, but also AL - which is to say that this description doesn’t break a single thing. You’ve created a skill monkey (that will still fail many skill checks that it doesn’t have proficiency in) that’s middlingly average in all other scenarios.
+4 in a stat and Reliable Talent gives you a 50% chance of rolling a 14 in a skill you’re not proficient in. That’s not broken... it’s just average. And every other “specialist” in your group will have fun just being better than you at it. Almost nothing at Tier 3-4 has a DC of 15.
And +9 in Str, Con, and Charisma checks... not broken either.
I never said it wouldn’t be “fun” - I said it doesn’t break anything. And calling me a “power gamer” as if it’s some sort of insult or argument that refutes mine is childish. We aren’t discussing each other, we are discussing your “broken” build as you put it. And these are not broken. In any way.
Broken implies that your character is using the game and items in such a way that makes them break some of the normal limitations that people expect from a class or race or archetype. Nothing you’ve typed here is out of character for the role you’ve chosen and each of them have very simple counters that DMs would easily be able to bring back into line.
edit: I’m not “flaming” you. Your blanket statement “AL is easy to break” is wrong and I was just drawing attention to that.
so, it’s normal for anyone to have +4 in every stat minimum?
i have a very simple counter to all of the other builds
listed above.
the DM takes away all your items, possessions, and everything. You’re naked with just yourself and your spells.
how well do they fair now?
yeah. It’s super easy to troll ideas.
as to the “other specialists”
are you forgetting a level 20 rogue, has more expertise than your other “specialists” within the group? Or that 14 is the LOWEST skill check said rogue would have, as opposed to some skill checks where their lowest roll would be a 27 Or are you simply not addressing it to try and Make your trolling a more sound argument.
as I said. If it’s not your flavor it’s not your flavor. There’s an infinite number of broken builds.
so, it’s normal for anyone to have +4 in every stat minimum?
i have a very simple counter to all of the other builds
listed above.
the DM takes away all your items, possessions, and everything. You’re naked with just yourself and your spells.
how well do they fair now?
yeah. It’s super easy to troll ideas.
What are you even on about?
It’s not normal to have +4 in every stat. It’s also not broken. It’s balanced for your campaign and hasn’t broken anything at all.
Take away all your possessions so you have 8 in three stats again? I don’t know what you’re even using that scenario to prove?
Broken doesn’t mean that if your character is naked it’s still viable. Man... just stop it. Breaking something is like doing 500+ damage in a single round of combat. Broken is getting 33 AC, +17 attack bonus, averaging 90 damage a round and +10-12 in every save with a single spell. Anything that makes certain aspects of the game trivial. I’m not saying they can’t be countered easily, just that the game breaks down when the extreme examples are pushed.
so, it’s normal for anyone to have +4 in every stat minimum?
i have a very simple counter to all of the other builds
listed above.
the DM takes away all your items, possessions, and everything. You’re naked with just yourself and your spells.
how well do they fair now?
yeah. It’s super easy to troll ideas.
What are you even on about?
It’s not normal to have +4 in every stat. It’s also not broken. It’s balanced for your campaign and hasn’t broken anything at all.
Take away all your possessions so you have 8 in three stats again? I don’t know what you’re even using that scenario to prove?
Broken doesn’t mean that if your character is naked it’s still viable. Man... just stop it. Breaking something is like doing 500+ damage in a single round of combat. Broken is getting 33 AC, +17 attack bonus, averaging 90 damage a round and +10-12 in every save with a single spell. Anything that makes certain aspects of the game trivial. I’m not saying they can’t be countered easily, just that the game breaks down when the extreme examples are pushed.
Okay. You can do 500 damage a round.
sorry, this is a mystery solving campaign. There’s 0 combat.
womp womp.
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You and I have played very different games.
Never played AL have you?
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not a whole lot of different builds being mentioned, i have a couple that aren't super min maxed but they have a strong focus. When I get a moment I will post them with their reasoning, see what people think.
https://ddb.ac/characters/21477221/O0YjBw
Rock Gnome Rune Knight, Onomancer
Mostly based around the idea of dealing with magic users, as a gnome get advantage on saving throws vs Int Wis Cha, good saves for physical from stats and class. Skills are all mostly meh with stealth being an exception, Rune knight abilities can be used to gain resistance to slash pierce bludgeon, or if an enemy ends their turn within 30 ft they make a wis save or be charmed and have zero movement speed. Lock em down or remove their ally, if you need to physically restrain someone suddenly use the giant size and have advantage on grapple checks and some extra damage. Booming Blade to try and keep an enemy in range for the charm effect. Mostly defensive type spells, absorb elements, shield, sleep, color spray, Onomancy true name ability to try and charm for a single turn and then use bane on them if successful or bless on yourself if it fails. Using the Feat for Gnomes Fade Away (lots of others could be as good or better) just for the ability to disappear for a turn and get a chance to recover if things go poorly. Nothing hugely broken but would do well at a few things.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
https://ddb.ac/characters/21468652/rZge3J
Half-Elf Drow Paladin, Shadow Sorceror, Lurker of the Deeps Warlock
Creep factor Divine Smiter, Intimidation skill is good, Charisma save to avoid going unconscious, and Pact of the Blade with the Invocation for a stronger weapon. Fun things like the tentacles to use up bonus actions, A couple spells that recharge on a short rest, not really looking at stockpiling sorcery points with short rests, but if there is one unused maybe (depending on the dm). The standard melee cantrips (Booming, Green, and sword burst) and eldritch blast for ranged attacking. Devil sight to take advantage of using the drow darkness spell for advantage, shadow blade for occasional night work for a damage boost. Some defensive spells for general use, Hex, a smite spell when hex isn't warranted. Pretty common concept for a potent smiter, but I like having the added bonus of the tentacles to use up bonus actions consistently when not in use for casting any spells. Reaction saved for shield or absorb elements depending on what you're being attacked with.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
https://ddb.ac/characters/21548146/u81TvW
Half Wood Elf Swashbuckler, College of Blades
Movement bonus from the wood elf and the extra 10 from blade flourish make for some strong mobility, in conjunction with swashbuckler and cunning action makes for extremely mobile in and out of combat attacker. The concept behind him is someone who annoys people with his bagpipe playing to sucker them into a duel. Longstrider to further increase movement when needed, lots of mind affecting spells from UA with only ID insinuation using concetration. I guess it is not super exceptional, but good one on one fighter.
Perhaps this will get some conversations started, most of these are relatively low level and i have not given a huge amount of thought of where they will go from here. Lots of options in terms of level balance and feats/stats.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Variant Human Paladin 5, Barbarian 3, Fighter 12. Have a Glaive or Halberd. Now you can kill anything. Here's how:
As Variant Human take Polearm Master. Your Strength score should start out as a 17 if you can get it there. Start out as either fighter or paladin, I recommend paladin. At level 2 choose the Fighting Style: Great Weapon Fighting, your 1's and 2's on your glaive or halberd now can be re-rolled. Minor boost for a d10, but still useful. You also get Divine Smite, which is your main ability, at level 5, you get 2nd level spell slots to use for divine smite, you be Oath of Vengeance paladin, Oath of Conquest works as well. At level 4, use your ASI to increase your Strength score to 19. You also get Extra Attack at level 5. Now become barbarian, you now have rage, so +2 damage to all your attacks, which is great, and have reckless attack, which you should do every round, and when you become level 3, choose zealot barbarian, which gives you an extra 1d6 radiant damage on your first attack on each turn, and you have advantage against all weapon attack damage. Now be Fighter up to level 12, you should be Battle Master, but Champion can be good, Eldritch Knight is good if you want more spell slots for smiting. Your main abilities will be Extra Attack at level 11 which gives you 3 attacks as part of the attack action. At level 2 fighter, you have Action Surge, which will come in handy, and another Fighting Style, I'd choose Defense or the new one from UA that gives you a Superiority Dice and some Battle Master Maneuvers. At level 3 choose any maneuvers that allow you to add the damage after you hit, such as Pushing Attack, Tripping Attack, Maneuvering Attack, Disarming Attack, and there are a few others. Your Superiority Dice are d10s. At level 4, increase your Strength up to 20, you may use a feat for this, such as Athlete or Resilient. At level 6, choose the Great Weapon Fighting feat. Level 8, I'd choose Sentinel or increase your Constitution Score. At level 10, again increase your Constitution, or take a feat, such as Lucky, Martial Adept would also work, Savage Attacker also would be great. At level 12, take another feat or ASI.
Now, lets get into how much damage you can do. You can attack 3 times each attack action, and once as a bonus action with a lesser damage dice, or if you get a critical hit on one of your attacks or killed a creature, you can attack with your blade instead of the minor attack. You also will always make your attacks with reckless attack, and if you have any magic items or abilities that allow you to crit on a 19-20, I would use it all the time. If you attack 4 times each round all at advantage, during your turn you have a 40% chance of getting a critical hit, or 80% if you crit on 19-20. I am assuming at level 20 your character has a +3 glaive or halberd. Your first attack on your turn will be 1d10+20+1d6 radiant. Your average damage for this will be 29 damage. Your second and third attacks will do 1d10+20 damage your average damage will be 25.5 damage. Your fourth attack if you didn't kill or crit during your first 3 attacks will be 1d4+20 damage, with an average of 22.5 damage, but if you did kill or crit on your first 3 attacks, your 4th attack will be identical to your 2nd and 3rd attacks. This is an average 110 damage each round, with no crits, at most 128 damage in a round, assuming you don't smite, crit, use a maneuver, or get your better bonus action attack.
Now, this is when it gets crazy, those first 4 attacks are good, so you already do a lot of damage, now if you crit on one of your first 3 attacks this is what happens. If you crit on your first attack you will deal 2d10+20+2d6 radiant damage, and you should use a maneuver, and you should use a 2nd level divine smite. The total damage dice from this would be 4d10+2d6 radiant damage+6d8 radiant damage+20. The average damage on this is 42 piercing or slashing + 34 radiant. If you crit and roll as much damage as possible on this attack, you deal 60 piercing or slashing damage + 60 radiant damage. So your average 1st attack crit does 76 damage, at most 120 damage. This is on one attack. If it is your second or third attack you deal 4d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 69 damage, at most 108 damage. If you crit on your last minor attack, you deal 2d4+2d10+6d8+20 damage, an average of 63 damage, at most 98 damage.
What if you used Action Surge, crit on each attack, expending all spell slots and all 7 superiority dice while raging? Your average damage would be 431 damage, at most 688 damage. This is insane. 688 damage in one round!
I posted this on a different thread, just thought it could be applied here.
Can you think of any official ways to make it better? Obviously the Rune Knight Fighter could significantly increase damage in large form, but I'd prefer some official ways.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
my favorite character might be relegated to NPC status shortly after attaining power, and it isn't a build exactly, more like a guideline.
first off, simulacrum and true polymorph are awesome.
you can create a duplicate of yourself, which is at least 17th level, then true polymorph it into any CR17 or lower monster. any creature created can have geas cast on it or something to make it obey you.
chose a sphinx and use it's lair action to go back in time (10 years forward or backward.) you are now a time traveling wizard.
turn another simulacrum into a vampire, and then turn a rock into a person. have the vampire kill the rock-person and turn them into a vampire spawn. then have the spawn feed on the vampire to become another vampire. rinse and repeat for high level polymorph fodder. use the sphinx if you need more time.
polymorph a vampire into anything you want of a lower CR, my favorite is a gold dragon wyrmling, even though you don't need to use a vampire for this.
put the wyrmling in the shadow fell (sphinx lair action to planeshift, or just a planeshift spell.) and make sure it is 800 years ago. bam. instant ancient gold shadow dragon. that has to be at least CR30, given how intense it is.
you can use that for polymorph fodder as well, to make an army of terrasques or tiamats, or anything really.
technically you don't even need the sphinx if you have enough clone spells and a tolerant DM, but besides the sphinx lair actions, this is a 100 percent rules legal wizard build.
so the sphinx just gets be in a lair anywhere they are? not sure thats how lair actions work.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Its really hard to break 5e. Especially more so than casting Force Cage, and its hard to call that min/maxing.
agree to disagree
but I think it’s hard if the DM nips things in the bud early
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HeroZero, not any where, but any WHEN. The plane shift can be used after they time travel, but as I said this requires a VERY lenient DM to even start working. It is just fun to think of 17th level wizard shenanigans.
I'm trying a Sorcadin now and it seems to be pretty awesome. First 2 levels of Paladin then on to draconic sorcerer for the rest. Be a full spell level behind other casters, but will eventually have full casting all the way to level 9. Granted you only get one attack unless you quicken booming or greenflame blade but a whole lot of smites and full casting while having plate and an additional health point per level with draconic bloodline. Then at higher levels you have full flight capability to get into melee, quicken you green flame, and smite away!
Be a divination wizard. Wait until you get a portent dice rolled 1-5, should just take a few days. Cast polymorph on anything you want to kill, turn it into a frog, or anything under 100 hit points. Then, power word kill it. Now, you can kill anything, except creatures with legendary resistances, which you'll need party team work to kill.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
This is completely wrong. For one, having that score in every stat isn’t possible unless you’re using all attuned items or slot-wasting Tomes, both of which are a complete waste.
Second, sacrificing slots to get those scores is an absolute waste of time and actually not even a good character to play. It’ll still have crappy saves, the same attack bonus as everyone else... it’s not min-maxed at all. It’s just “stat ******”.
It’s only not a good character if you don’t have fun. You tip your hand you are the power gamer type.
and 2. You contradict your own first paragraph yourself.
and to your it’s not min-maxes it’s just “Star ******”. That would depend on if combat is the only thing you believe one can min max for.
theres a reason I said any subclass of Rogue there.
and If you don’t think having a reliable talent have anything be a 14 at the worst roll for you. Whether proficient, expertise, or not, isn’t a powerful thing. Then, I’m intrigued to know how the campaigns you play/run operate.
ex: stand that rogue within 30 ft of a paladin with 20 cha. minimum saves +9 every single stat.🤷🏼♂️
woth proficiency in Dex, Wis, and Int.
cant make you like something. But it is what it is. And it maintains my point. There’s literally an infinite number of ways to min-max.
Plus that’s just going off easy to acquire items.
want to be a muscle rogue? Do the same thing but noW with a legendary belt of storm giant strength
29/20/19/19/20/20
Did someone say 29/20/19/19/16/20 grappler feat rogue assassin who sneaks in, and assassinates the living s out of people andnif they live grapples them our muscles and sneak attack stabs them to death?
You’re a rogue. People, npcs, monsters don’t instantly know your class unless it’s obvious. Rogue like that. Easily convince people you’re a ranger (scout) or a fighter (any) or a wizard (arcane trickster) or artificer (arcane trickster) or a bard (any).
combat is not 100% o D&D there buddy. So before you flame people think of that.
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One build that I remember encountering, but which I didn't see the full character sheet for, was a rogue/warlock build. Basically they stuck with warlock just long enough to get Devil's Sight and the Darkness spell... then they would just cast darkness centered on an object they were carrying (I think it was their rapier), then just walked around getting free sneak attacks against anything they faced and the ability to stealth just about anywhere. I think the character also had Warcaster to help them keep up concentration on their darkness... either way I don't know all the details, but it ended up being a character that was a huge pain in the ass for both the DM and the rest of the party, since we were effectively blinded by them half the time as well and they ended up getting most of the kills for the session.
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So you’re making a ****** skill-monkey? Your posts here have been about how you easy it is to “Break” not only 5e, but also AL - which is to say that this description doesn’t break a single thing. You’ve created a skill monkey (that will still fail many skill checks that it doesn’t have proficiency in) that’s middlingly average in all other scenarios.
+4 in a stat and Reliable Talent gives you a 50% chance of rolling a 14 in a skill you’re not proficient in. That’s not broken... it’s just average. And every other “specialist” in your group will have fun just being better than you at it. Almost nothing at Tier 3-4 has a DC of 15.
And +9 in Str, Con, and Charisma checks... not broken either.
I never said it wouldn’t be “fun” - I said it doesn’t break anything. And calling me a “power gamer” as if it’s some sort of insult or argument that refutes mine is childish. We aren’t discussing each other, we are discussing your “broken” build as you put it. And these are not broken. In any way.
Broken implies that your character is using the game and items in such a way that makes them break some of the normal limitations that people expect from a class or race or archetype. Nothing you’ve typed here is out of character for the role you’ve chosen and each of them have very simple counters that DMs would easily be able to bring back into line.
edit: I’m not “flaming” you. Your blanket statement “AL is easy to break” is wrong and I was just drawing attention to that.
“Breaks normal limitations”
so, it’s normal for anyone to have +4 in every stat minimum?
i have a very simple counter to all of the other builds
listed above.
the DM takes away all your items, possessions, and everything. You’re naked with just yourself and your spells.
how well do they fair now?
yeah. It’s super easy to troll ideas.
as to the “other specialists”
are you forgetting a level 20 rogue, has more expertise than your other “specialists” within the group? Or that 14 is the LOWEST skill check said rogue would have, as opposed to some skill checks where their lowest roll would be a 27 Or are you simply not addressing it to try and Make your trolling a more sound argument.
as I said. If it’s not your flavor it’s not your flavor. There’s an infinite number of broken builds.
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What are you even on about?
It’s not normal to have +4 in every stat. It’s also not broken. It’s balanced for your campaign and hasn’t broken anything at all.
Take away all your possessions so you have 8 in three stats again? I don’t know what you’re even using that scenario to prove?
Broken doesn’t mean that if your character is naked it’s still viable. Man... just stop it. Breaking something is like doing 500+ damage in a single round of combat. Broken is getting 33 AC, +17 attack bonus, averaging 90 damage a round and +10-12 in every save with a single spell. Anything that makes certain aspects of the game trivial. I’m not saying they can’t be countered easily, just that the game breaks down when the extreme examples are pushed.
Okay. You can do 500 damage a round.
sorry, this is a mystery solving campaign. There’s 0 combat.
womp womp.
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