Have you ever seen the movie "Troy"? Remember how Achilles dominated the battlefield in both mass melee and single combat? That type of warrior is what I picture a true duelist to be, one whose martial prowess shines through regardless of the battlefield. But I need help on how to best bring the idea to life so I would appreciate any advice. I'm mostly a RPer so forgive as I am not much of a number cruncher or optimizer.
Campaign: Tyranny of Dragons 5e
Stat Format: Point Buy
Starting Level: 1
Expected Level Cap: 15-17
Resources Allowed: Feats, Multiclass, Critical Role Content, Unearthed Arcana, Homebrew material (at DM discretion).
Limitations: No flying or telepathy.
The general concept for the build is a cocky but tough duelist who travels from town to town, city to city earning coin by fighting uppity aristocrates in duels and the occasional contract as a mercenary (think the Eagle Bearer in AC: Odyssey). This what I'm thinking so far...
Race: Variant Human
Class: Fighter
Subclass: Battle Master
Armor: Breastplate
Weapon: Longsword or Scimitar (Alternatively, Spear)
Play Style: Sword & Board (Alternatively Spear and Board depending on circumstances)
Can I make such a idea work on a STR build or do I have to pick dex? What feats help make it stand out? Should I multiclass at some point and if so what class? Any suggeations would be helpful. I'm not necessarily looking for the most damage dealing build, I just don't want my character concept to be a detriment to my party in and out of combat. Thank you in advance for the help!
As an alternative, go for Fighter 2, Ranger/Hunter 15.
Take Horde Breaker, Multi attack Defense and Uncanny Dodge. That gives you an extra attack each round (3 attacks per round), the ability to instantly reduce the first attack each round by half, and get 4 extra AC on the others.
AC: 15 Half Plate, 2 Shield, 2 Dex, 1Defense Fighting Style = 20 before any magical mods. And if multi attacked by the same creature you get 24 AC
I think that your idea could work with either a STR build or a dex build. The main question there revolves around what type of armor that you envision your character wearing and what specific weapon they will wield. Remember that you can use strength or dexterity for finesse weapons, which means that sneak attack and feats such as Defensive Duelist are still on the table for Strength builds as long as you are still wielding a finesse weapon such as a rapier or a shortsword. The caveat there would be that a spear and board build (or a longsword and board) would require the strength build to make the melee go. If you are thinking lightly armored, then I would go a dex build with a finesse weapon. The heavier the armor, the more likely that you'll want to go strength based. You can go with a medium armor build and max your dexterity at 14 to get the max +2 dex benefit from medium armor (16/+3 if you get Medium Armor Master), but I would only go that route if you are thinking a strength based devastator that attacks early and often or you really want those bonuses to Acrobatics, Stealth, and Sleight of hand, but still want to go Longsword for attacks.
Multiclassing could be interesting if you want to dip rogue to get sneak attack, paladin (or ranger) to get a second fighting style (dueling and defensive fighting styles stack and fit the concept very well), or potentially wizard, warlock or sorcerer if you want to add Booming Blade with some other buffs. This would be a way to sort of get battlemaster and eldritch knight on the same character. If you go that route, I would focus on the buff spells and utility spells instead of trying to get more damaging spells. Cleric offers some other options for a little of that buff/utility route. You likely won't want to grab more than a few levels, maybe enough to get a third level spell like Haste (5 or 6 levels of Wizard or Sorcerer for that spell). Just remember that the more levels you take in other classes, the slower your fighter progression will be. One or two level dips are probably the most you'll want to do for your concept.
Feats- If you want to Spear and Board- Polearm Master is a no brainer. Magic Initiate can give a poor man's version of a 1 level dip to get some spellcasting that doesn't slow your fighter progession.
Optimal senses/conditioning- Alert, Athlete, Grappler, Mobile, Resilient (probably Wisdom or Dexterity) to give you more save proficiencies at a Half ASI rate, Tavern Brawler if you want to be a quasi-monk/ultimate grappler, or tough. Each of these could give you a significant advantage in the situations where they would be applicable, with Tavern Brawler probably being the worst of the bunch generally speaking.
Shields- Sentinel to dominate a creature specifically one on one by keeping it close (plus the benefit of making it harder for creatures to get around you to your teammates) or Shield Master for a quasi-Resilient Dex plus a bonus action shove attack with your shield.
Dex Builds- Medium Armor Master if you want Stealth without Disadvantage and the +3 max dex bonus or Defensive Duelist for the finesse builds.
Others- Lucky is almost always good, and Mage slayer if you wish to punish magic users.
Fighter (Battlemaster) is a very versatile class, and you should not need to multiclass to excel.
As a Fighter you have access to heavy armor and shields, which will give you an excellent armor class, or medium armor and shields, which will lag 1-2 AC behind but allow you to make Stealth checks without disadvantage. Using heavy armor is less stat-intensive if you'll be making Strength attacks (any non-finesse weapons, "thrown" weapons), or using medium armor is less stat-intensive if you'll be making Dexterity attacks (finesse weapons, ranged weapons). Its certainly possible to have good Strength AND Dexterity, but it is easier to focus on one or the other to allow yourself some room to have a strong Constitution and decent intelligence, wisdom, or charisma. A shield+spear/shield+javelin fighter is a good Strength build, and what's great about 5e is... if you ever come across a magic longsword there's not much reason you can't use it instead of a spear, unless you've committed by taking a feat like Polearm Master.
For your fighting style, I would recommend "Defense" for +1 AC, or "Dueling" for +2 damage on all of your 1-handed weapon attacks. "Protection" is probably more trouble than it's worth, unless you specifically are looking to be tied at the hip to your allies and play as a defender the whole game.
For feats, Fighters get more than any other class (7 instead of 4, with those extra 3 feats all falling within the level range you're describing), so there's more freedom to take anything that looks interesting. +1 more feat if you're a variant human! Getting your attack stat (Strength or Dexterity) to 20 as soon as possible should usually be your first priority, so your first two feats at 4 and 6 should either be used for +2 Ability Score Improvements, or to take a feat which provides a +1 Str/Dex bonus (depending on whether your Str/Dex is starting at 15, 16, or 17 after racial bonus). If you're a Strength Build, Heavy Armor Master provides +1 Strength and is good to take early in your career; if you're a Dexterity Build, Resilient (Dexterity) provides a +1 Dexterity and is good to take early. Other feats to consider after getting Str or Dex to 20 include Tough (2-40 extra HP), Shield Master (better saves and less damage from many nasty dex-save effects, ability to make shield shoves with a bonus action), Sharpshooter (ignore this if you're a Str build using thrown weapons, but a Dex-based bow user does much more damage with it), Sentinel (lets you lock enemies down in combat with you and punish them for ignoring you), Polearm Master (gives you a bonus attack option when wielding a spear or quarterstaff, combos well with Sentinel to stop enemies moving around within your range), Medium Armor Master (required if you're a Dex build to avoid having bad AC, avoid otherwise), Martial Adept (combos well with Battlemaster to give you one more known maneuver), Lucky (good for everyone for sticky/heroic situations), Prodigy (only if you're a human, half-elf, or half-orc, but Expertise is a very useful thing to have in a skill like Perception, Athletics, or Stealth), or Tavern Brawler (useful for +1 Str, nice to have as a fallback if you ever have to fight your way out of a tavern or jail cell, and makes you very good at throwing things like Alchemist Fire, Holy Water, and Acid).
Too many options, right? For a shield and spear (or javelin) fighter, I'd recommend a Strength build variant human (16/13/16/8/12/8) and take: 1: Heavy Armor Master (17 Str); 4: Tavern Brawler (18 Str); 6: ASI +2 Str (20 Str); 8: Shield Master; 12: Resilient (Dexterity); 14: Lucky or Prodigy or Tough or Sentinel; 16: choice of whatever you skipped or Polearm Master (if you're still grooving on spears) or Martial Adept (if there's a maneuver you still don't have but want).
Now as far as Battle Maneuvers go... they're all good! But some stand outs include Menacing Attack (hard control on enemy movement, good debuff for enemies you don't want landing their attacks), Precision Attack (good fall back when you need to land a hit), Pushing Attack (hard board control when you need an enemy to not be where they are), Trip Attack (good debuff to stack on a target that you want the group to pile onto), and Maneuvering Attack (potential lifesaver for a squishy party member who's pinned down where they shouldn't be).
As far as equipment goes I planned on wearing Breastplate armor and was debating between using a Longsword or Scimitar, if that helps at all.
That leaves you open to either dex or str. If you decide on Longsword, set your dex at 14 and go strength. After you max your strength at 20, you can get your Dexterity up to 16 if you want medium armor master, which will give you the same max non magical AC (with halfplate) as plate in heavy armor. If you want scimitar, don't worry about strength, just go dex. It will give you more flexibility in the long run.
For longsword, I recommend that you suck it up and wear plate and use the exact same build as I put above, but remove any consideration of Polearm Master at 16. But for a scimitar-wielding breastplate-wearing Dex build, then 13/16/16/8/12/8 would be my recommendation, because it's risky to completely tank Strength as an armored martial character, who's probably still going to want to carry armor and break down doors and stuff.
1: Resilient (Dexterity) (17 Dex); 4: ASI (+1 Str & +1 Dex) or Athlete (18 Dex); 6: ASI (+2 Dex) (20 Dex); 8: Medium Armor Master (switch to half plate now); 12: Shield Master; 14: Lucky or Prodigy or Tough or Sentinel or Sharpshooter; 16: same as 14 or Martial Adept
You could instead go 8/16/16/8/15/8 and take ASI (+1 Dex & +1 Wis) at 4, but it's going to result in a lot of missed opportunities for you to feel like a buff fighter over the life of your character, just for +2 to your will saves and perception checks. 10/16/16/8/14/8 and taking Athlete at 4 would be safer/better and still give you +1 will save over the build above.
I honestly like the Strength Spear/Javelin build better than this Dex Scimitar/Bow build. But you do you, either one (or, really anything you do with a Battlemaster) will feel good at the table.
Take the Mobile feat. You want to play like Achilles, then the following allows you to run around the battlefield.
Your speed increases by 10 feet.
When you use the Dash action, difficult terrain doesn't cost you extra movement on that turn.
When you make a melee attack against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature for the rest of the turn, whether you hit or not.
Take Battlemaster at level 3, and start with the following, based on wanting to play an Achilles type character:
Bard-College of Swords 5 then the rest battlemaster fighter the flourishes really synergize exceptionally well with battlemaster
5 lvls of bard allows your flourishes to recharge on a short rest, gives access to the catnap spell for those long dungeon crawls plus the other goodie bard utility spells
This build also gives some nice skills and expertise which is nice since you know the game is more than just combat
Attack goes defensive flourish into goading attack then when they miss you you get to riposte
Its better if you go elf or half elf since that would open up elven accuracy which is phenomenal with trip attack
This is my current build I am playing and he is an absolute blast with elven accuracy he crits ALOT. I went 5 levels of fighter first then went bard 5 and then back to fighter.
Bard-College of Swords 5 then the rest battlemaster fighter the flourishes really synergize exceptionally well with battlemaster
5 lvls of bard allows your flourishes to recharge on a short rest, gives access to the catnap spell for those long dungeon crawls plus the other goodie bard utility spells
This build also gives some nice skills and expertise which is nice since you know the game is more than just combat
Attack goes defensive flourish into goading attack then when they miss you you get to riposte
Its better if you go elf or half elf since that would open up elven accuracy which is phenomenal with trip attack
This is my current build I am playing and he is an absolute blast with elven accuracy he crits ALOT. I went 5 levels of fighter first then went bard 5 and then back to fighter.
You could also swap out the fighter for Paladin with this concept to deal more punishing damage when you do land a hit by burning those bard spell slots (if going with many multiclass, even taking two levels there and the rest in fighter wouldn't be bad). Take an extra level and go heroism (UA) for some pretty solid uses of Channel Divinity.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
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Have you ever seen the movie "Troy"? Remember how Achilles dominated the battlefield in both mass melee and single combat? That type of warrior is what I picture a true duelist to be, one whose martial prowess shines through regardless of the battlefield. But I need help on how to best bring the idea to life so I would appreciate any advice. I'm mostly a RPer so forgive as I am not much of a number cruncher or optimizer.
Campaign: Tyranny of Dragons 5e
Stat Format: Point Buy
Starting Level: 1
Expected Level Cap: 15-17
Resources Allowed: Feats, Multiclass, Critical Role Content, Unearthed Arcana, Homebrew material (at DM discretion).
Limitations: No flying or telepathy.
The general concept for the build is a cocky but tough duelist who travels from town to town, city to city earning coin by fighting uppity aristocrates in duels and the occasional contract as a mercenary (think the Eagle Bearer in AC: Odyssey). This what I'm thinking so far...
Race: Variant Human
Class: Fighter
Subclass: Battle Master
Armor: Breastplate
Weapon: Longsword or Scimitar (Alternatively, Spear)
Play Style: Sword & Board (Alternatively Spear and Board depending on circumstances)
Can I make such a idea work on a STR build or do I have to pick dex? What feats help make it stand out? Should I multiclass at some point and if so what class? Any suggeations would be helpful. I'm not necessarily looking for the most damage dealing build, I just don't want my character concept to be a detriment to my party in and out of combat. Thank you in advance for the help!
As an alternative, go for Fighter 2, Ranger/Hunter 15.
Take Horde Breaker, Multi attack Defense and Uncanny Dodge. That gives you an extra attack each round (3 attacks per round), the ability to instantly reduce the first attack each round by half, and get 4 extra AC on the others.
AC: 15 Half Plate, 2 Shield, 2 Dex, 1Defense Fighting Style = 20 before any magical mods. And if multi attacked by the same creature you get 24 AC
I think that your idea could work with either a STR build or a dex build. The main question there revolves around what type of armor that you envision your character wearing and what specific weapon they will wield. Remember that you can use strength or dexterity for finesse weapons, which means that sneak attack and feats such as Defensive Duelist are still on the table for Strength builds as long as you are still wielding a finesse weapon such as a rapier or a shortsword. The caveat there would be that a spear and board build (or a longsword and board) would require the strength build to make the melee go. If you are thinking lightly armored, then I would go a dex build with a finesse weapon. The heavier the armor, the more likely that you'll want to go strength based. You can go with a medium armor build and max your dexterity at 14 to get the max +2 dex benefit from medium armor (16/+3 if you get Medium Armor Master), but I would only go that route if you are thinking a strength based devastator that attacks early and often or you really want those bonuses to Acrobatics, Stealth, and Sleight of hand, but still want to go Longsword for attacks.
Multiclassing could be interesting if you want to dip rogue to get sneak attack, paladin (or ranger) to get a second fighting style (dueling and defensive fighting styles stack and fit the concept very well), or potentially wizard, warlock or sorcerer if you want to add Booming Blade with some other buffs. This would be a way to sort of get battlemaster and eldritch knight on the same character. If you go that route, I would focus on the buff spells and utility spells instead of trying to get more damaging spells. Cleric offers some other options for a little of that buff/utility route. You likely won't want to grab more than a few levels, maybe enough to get a third level spell like Haste (5 or 6 levels of Wizard or Sorcerer for that spell). Just remember that the more levels you take in other classes, the slower your fighter progression will be. One or two level dips are probably the most you'll want to do for your concept.
Feats- If you want to Spear and Board- Polearm Master is a no brainer. Magic Initiate can give a poor man's version of a 1 level dip to get some spellcasting that doesn't slow your fighter progession.
Optimal senses/conditioning- Alert, Athlete, Grappler, Mobile, Resilient (probably Wisdom or Dexterity) to give you more save proficiencies at a Half ASI rate, Tavern Brawler if you want to be a quasi-monk/ultimate grappler, or tough. Each of these could give you a significant advantage in the situations where they would be applicable, with Tavern Brawler probably being the worst of the bunch generally speaking.
Shields- Sentinel to dominate a creature specifically one on one by keeping it close (plus the benefit of making it harder for creatures to get around you to your teammates) or Shield Master for a quasi-Resilient Dex plus a bonus action shove attack with your shield.
Dex Builds- Medium Armor Master if you want Stealth without Disadvantage and the +3 max dex bonus or Defensive Duelist for the finesse builds.
Others- Lucky is almost always good, and Mage slayer if you wish to punish magic users.
Fighter (Battlemaster) is a very versatile class, and you should not need to multiclass to excel.
As a Fighter you have access to heavy armor and shields, which will give you an excellent armor class, or medium armor and shields, which will lag 1-2 AC behind but allow you to make Stealth checks without disadvantage. Using heavy armor is less stat-intensive if you'll be making Strength attacks (any non-finesse weapons, "thrown" weapons), or using medium armor is less stat-intensive if you'll be making Dexterity attacks (finesse weapons, ranged weapons). Its certainly possible to have good Strength AND Dexterity, but it is easier to focus on one or the other to allow yourself some room to have a strong Constitution and decent intelligence, wisdom, or charisma. A shield+spear/shield+javelin fighter is a good Strength build, and what's great about 5e is... if you ever come across a magic longsword there's not much reason you can't use it instead of a spear, unless you've committed by taking a feat like Polearm Master.
For your fighting style, I would recommend "Defense" for +1 AC, or "Dueling" for +2 damage on all of your 1-handed weapon attacks. "Protection" is probably more trouble than it's worth, unless you specifically are looking to be tied at the hip to your allies and play as a defender the whole game.
For feats, Fighters get more than any other class (7 instead of 4, with those extra 3 feats all falling within the level range you're describing), so there's more freedom to take anything that looks interesting. +1 more feat if you're a variant human! Getting your attack stat (Strength or Dexterity) to 20 as soon as possible should usually be your first priority, so your first two feats at 4 and 6 should either be used for +2 Ability Score Improvements, or to take a feat which provides a +1 Str/Dex bonus (depending on whether your Str/Dex is starting at 15, 16, or 17 after racial bonus). If you're a Strength Build, Heavy Armor Master provides +1 Strength and is good to take early in your career; if you're a Dexterity Build, Resilient (Dexterity) provides a +1 Dexterity and is good to take early. Other feats to consider after getting Str or Dex to 20 include Tough (2-40 extra HP), Shield Master (better saves and less damage from many nasty dex-save effects, ability to make shield shoves with a bonus action), Sharpshooter (ignore this if you're a Str build using thrown weapons, but a Dex-based bow user does much more damage with it), Sentinel (lets you lock enemies down in combat with you and punish them for ignoring you), Polearm Master (gives you a bonus attack option when wielding a spear or quarterstaff, combos well with Sentinel to stop enemies moving around within your range), Medium Armor Master (required if you're a Dex build to avoid having bad AC, avoid otherwise), Martial Adept (combos well with Battlemaster to give you one more known maneuver), Lucky (good for everyone for sticky/heroic situations), Prodigy (only if you're a human, half-elf, or half-orc, but Expertise is a very useful thing to have in a skill like Perception, Athletics, or Stealth), or Tavern Brawler (useful for +1 Str, nice to have as a fallback if you ever have to fight your way out of a tavern or jail cell, and makes you very good at throwing things like Alchemist Fire, Holy Water, and Acid).
Too many options, right? For a shield and spear (or javelin) fighter, I'd recommend a Strength build variant human (16/13/16/8/12/8) and take: 1: Heavy Armor Master (17 Str); 4: Tavern Brawler (18 Str); 6: ASI +2 Str (20 Str); 8: Shield Master; 12: Resilient (Dexterity); 14: Lucky or Prodigy or Tough or Sentinel; 16: choice of whatever you skipped or Polearm Master (if you're still grooving on spears) or Martial Adept (if there's a maneuver you still don't have but want).
Now as far as Battle Maneuvers go... they're all good! But some stand outs include Menacing Attack (hard control on enemy movement, good debuff for enemies you don't want landing their attacks), Precision Attack (good fall back when you need to land a hit), Pushing Attack (hard board control when you need an enemy to not be where they are), Trip Attack (good debuff to stack on a target that you want the group to pile onto), and Maneuvering Attack (potential lifesaver for a squishy party member who's pinned down where they shouldn't be).
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
As far as equipment goes I planned on wearing Breastplate armor and was debating between using a Longsword or Scimitar, if that helps at all.
That leaves you open to either dex or str. If you decide on Longsword, set your dex at 14 and go strength. After you max your strength at 20, you can get your Dexterity up to 16 if you want medium armor master, which will give you the same max non magical AC (with halfplate) as plate in heavy armor. If you want scimitar, don't worry about strength, just go dex. It will give you more flexibility in the long run.
For longsword, I recommend that you suck it up and wear plate and use the exact same build as I put above, but remove any consideration of Polearm Master at 16. But for a scimitar-wielding breastplate-wearing Dex build, then 13/16/16/8/12/8 would be my recommendation, because it's risky to completely tank Strength as an armored martial character, who's probably still going to want to carry armor and break down doors and stuff.
1: Resilient (Dexterity) (17 Dex); 4: ASI (+1 Str & +1 Dex) or Athlete (18 Dex); 6: ASI (+2 Dex) (20 Dex); 8: Medium Armor Master (switch to half plate now); 12: Shield Master; 14: Lucky or Prodigy or Tough or Sentinel or Sharpshooter; 16: same as 14 or Martial Adept
You could instead go 8/16/16/8/15/8 and take ASI (+1 Dex & +1 Wis) at 4, but it's going to result in a lot of missed opportunities for you to feel like a buff fighter over the life of your character, just for +2 to your will saves and perception checks. 10/16/16/8/14/8 and taking Athlete at 4 would be safer/better and still give you +1 will save over the build above.
I honestly like the Strength Spear/Javelin build better than this Dex Scimitar/Bow build. But you do you, either one (or, really anything you do with a Battlemaster) will feel good at the table.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
STR: 16 (+3)
DEX: 14 (+2)
CON: 16 (+3)
INT: 8 (-1)
WIS: 10 (+0)
CHA: 8 (-1)
Take the Mobile feat. You want to play like Achilles, then the following allows you to run around the battlefield.
Take Battlemaster at level 3, and start with the following, based on wanting to play an Achilles type character:
Bard-College of Swords 5 then the rest battlemaster fighter the flourishes really synergize exceptionally well with battlemaster
5 lvls of bard allows your flourishes to recharge on a short rest, gives access to the catnap spell for those long dungeon crawls plus the other goodie bard utility spells
This build also gives some nice skills and expertise which is nice since you know the game is more than just combat
Attack goes defensive flourish into goading attack then when they miss you you get to riposte
Its better if you go elf or half elf since that would open up elven accuracy which is phenomenal with trip attack
This is my current build I am playing and he is an absolute blast with elven accuracy he crits ALOT. I went 5 levels of fighter first then went bard 5 and then back to fighter.
You could also swap out the fighter for Paladin with this concept to deal more punishing damage when you do land a hit by burning those bard spell slots (if going with many multiclass, even taking two levels there and the rest in fighter wouldn't be bad). Take an extra level and go heroism (UA) for some pretty solid uses of Channel Divinity.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."