A while ago I made a character for a friend's campaign with the intention of making it very skilled at exploring dungeons (i.e., finding/disabling traps, finding secret doors, etc). The character I made was a variant human mastermind rogue. The idea here was that with variant human I could pick up the dungeon delver feat and as a rogue I could have expertise in my thieves' tools for disabling traps. Expertise was also used for boosting perception and investigation checks for finding hidden things.
After playing that character up to 8th level, I found the following flaws with my design: 1) Variant human was great for getting Dungeon Delver early, but came at the cost of not having darkvision. Hard to look ahead for traps in a dark dungeon unless you have torches. 2) No real way to explore "magical" aspects of areas. To be fully explorer buff, having spells like Detect Magic and Identify would be crucial. 3) While mastermind fit super thematically with my characters backstory, it really didn't offer much in the way of exploration abilities. Inquisitive might have been better, but then there would have also been some overlap with the Dungeon Delver feat.
All of this got me thinking, what is the best class/subclass/multiclass combo for building an Indiana Jones, dungeon explorer character? Maybe a warlock or wizard for Find Familiar? Maybe a bard for a mixture of magic and skill expertise? What are your thoughts? I'm especially curious now that Tasha's options are out
(also, just fyi, I am not playing this character anymore so I am not looking for suggestions on how to continue that build past level 8)
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A Wizard using Tasha's Custom Origin so that you get a feat and darkvision. With the feat take Eldritch Adept to pick up Eldritch Sight. Make sure you take Mage Hand as one of your cantrips and Unseen Servant as one of your starting spells.
Your character can now cast Detect Magic at will without using a spell slot or materials. You can now ritual cast Unseen Servant and send it ahead of you to trigger any potential traps and you also have Mage Hand to fiddle with suspicious doors and whatnot from a safe distance.
Dungeon Delver is a trap in my opinion and not really worth taking.
Those all seem like great ideas. Although I disagree about Dungeon Delver. If you're building a character who is trying to explore places, having advantage on finding secret doors, advantage on saving throws against traps, and resistance to damage done by traps are all great. With it you almost guarantee with the right build you will find any and all secret doors, which could lead to more loot for the party or bypass more dangerous routes. Also, if you are already building to look for traps, you're either going to find them OR if you scout ahead and fail to spot it, youll have a better chance at surviving the trap than anyone else in the party. The better travel pace while searching for traps kinda depends on your DM. Unless the party is crunched for time while exploring, it won't make much of difference whether youre traveling slowly or not
The only place that I think things like detect magic and find familiar/unseen servant fall short for a dungeon delving build is that they will not detect or trigger traps. Not all traps are tied to doors or other things that mage hand and other spells interact with.
Admittedly, though, if you have a character with expertise in Perception or Investigation already, the advantages of Dungeon Delver may be overlapping and overkill at that point.
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Firbolg are very versatile scouts, since they have:
Detect Magic as a racial spell 1/short rest (to investigate magical traps, treasure, or environmental hazards)
Invisibility as a racial bonus action 1/short rest (to better skulk, or get out of trouble when caught away from the party)
Disguise Self as a racial spell 1/short rest (again to better skulk/infiltrate monster dungeons)
Powerful Build (to more easily solve puzzles and traps with physical solutions, and to be able to carry more kit more easily)
Speech of Beast & Leaf (to better investigate dungeons by enlisting the help of rats, fungus, etc.)
By default, Wisdom and Strength, to better perceive (wisdom) or move athletically (strength)
Their only real weakness? No darkvision! Unless mitigated by class or kit, this is a pretty big shortcoming for a scout... but I really feel like their other Race Traits are so versatile, it's worth considering going out of your way with a class solution for that.
Good classes for scouts:
Rogues are not so essential as they once were, since Expertise is so easy to pick up. Skill Expert, races like Aereni Elf, Ranger optional rules... there's a few more paths to get to Expertise than there used to be with Rogue, Bard, and Prodigy. I still think that you get a lot of value for starting as a Rogue at Level 1, but if for some reason you're avoiding Dex and can't swing that MC, there are alternatives.
Honestly as they level, Rogues don't get a ton of new features level to level, though Reliable Talent is certainly nice in T3. Instead.... I actually think Monks, especially Way of the Shadow, are among the best scouts out there. Superior speed and mobility, superior defense from investing in wisdom, utility spells to sneak, hide, and teleport, immunity from some environmental hazards, tools to both assassinate lone targets but also easily escape when outnumbered.... They have almost everything I'd look for, except maybe for mage hand and the elemental control cantrips.
I think that Telekinetic patches that shortcoming of the Shadow Monk pretty handily, and provides a +1 Wisdom to boot, so take that.
Devil's Sight is obviously the gold standard of darkvision, but charisma isn't a great stat for a do-it-all delver to invest in. But, the Tome Pact with Book of Ancient Secrets is great value for a delver, opening up tons of utility exploration rituals, even if you have no interest in casting Eldritch Blast. I think you can fit two levels of Warlock in around the edges without too much trouble in a level 20 theoretical build, but in practice in T1 and T2, that's a rough pause in progression... the Eldritch Adept feat seems like it might be a more reasonable way to pick up Darkvision as a feat, but it DOES require you to have the Spellcasting feature through another class....
Luckily, a few levels of Ranger (Gloom Stalker) will synergize VERY well with your monk combat, and get you to Spellcaster. Or, one level of Cleric (Knowledge) or (Twilight) would be great, the Twilight cleric even makes Eldritch Adept unncessary! Shouldn't be a problem stat wise to add cleric to monk, even if you're also splashed into rogue and/or ranger.
Put it all together, and what would I suggest?
In T1, start as a level 1 Rogue (expertise in Thieves' Tools and Perception), and then take Monk (Shadow) for four levels. Take Telekinetic (+1 Wisdom) at Monk 4
In T2, consider the order you want to accomplish the following:
2 levels of Twilight Cleric
2 more levels of Monk to get to Monk 6 (Shadow Step)
1 level of Ranger w/ the Deft Explorer swap from Tasha's (expertise in Stealth or Investigation)
In T3, consider the order you want to accomplish the following:
2 more levels of Monk to get to Monk 8 feat (Skill Expert, + 1 Dex, expertise in Stealth or Investigation)
1 more level of Ranger (Ranger 3), to get Gloomstalker.
3 more levels of Monk to get to Monk 11 (Cloak of Shadows)
In T4, finish it off with
3 more levels of Monk to get to Monk 14 (Diamond Soul), and an ASI for +2 Dexterity
Or, stop at Monk 12 or 13, and get 1 or 2 more Ranger levels to get another ASI for +2 Dexterity or Wisdom. Honestly, I'd rather have the saves, and Shadow Monks don't really need 20 Dex (or 20 Wisdom) to be effective in combat.
Wildshape offers various movement modes, and being a spider on the wall in a dungeon is about as good as invisibility, if not better in most situations.
Guidance/Resistance cantrips give a small edge on ability checks and saving throws when disarming traps.
Summon Beast gives you a buffer for everything else, and lets you safely disarm traps by triggering them.
As mentioned, Expertise can be taken as a feat to cover skill bases, and a good background can grant proficiency in Thieve's Tools. Being a full caster means they get all of the benefits of magic, and they can summon allies to do what they can't.
Being able to transform makes them ridiculously versatile, and with the right magic items to round them out, you're golden.
Edit: Plus they get Thorn Whip, which is great for the Indiana Jones flair!
I like that suggestion as well. Also, just putting it out there, Druids that aren't Moon Druids are more MC friendly, since there's less of a rush to unlock CR-appropriate beast forms to stay on curve. Being a Druid/Monk can be a very effective way to make even basic druid wild shapes as good or better than the Moon Druid wild shapes (though, fewer HP), so I'd still recommend some Shadow Monk levels for a Druid Deliver.
While controversial, you could also do a Druid/Artificer multiclass to gain access to Arcane Armor. Since it magically adapts to the user's body, and can even replace missing limbs, I'd say it's fair to let it be used while Wildshaped. And since a 3 level dip would only cost 1 level of spell slot progression, it's not so bad in the long run.
There are some odd interactions to discuss with the DM, but the Infiltrator armor has a built-in ranged weapon, which greatly expands its potential for use on beasts.
A Giant Spider in Plate armor shooting lightning up to 300ft would be a sight to behold.
I really like Druid Armorers too, what a fun build! I especially like the potential of building Pots of Awakening with your infusions, to give yourself a series of sidekick Awakened Shrubs instead of using Find Familiar, too :)
That's a great use of an Infusion for a Druid MC. There is no guarantee that the Awakened Shrub will stick around, since it's merely friendly toward you, but I'd totally allow it in my game. The only downside is the 30 day recharge window!
I'd probably work with my player to make it slightly more manageable, like burning spell slots to reduce the incubation period, or buying high quality fertilizer. Some kind of resource drain.
I suppose it's not explicitly RAW that a Pot of Awakening operates in the same manner that Awaken does, I hadn't really thought of that... Awakendoes guarantee that the shrub is not only friendly, but in fact charmed ... but I suppose even that isn't a guarantee that it's willing to travel with you as your companion. The Pot does say that you can issue "commands" to it though, so I think it's reasonable to read that as giving you a Shrub companion for the 30 day window. But there is some room for a DM to be a jerk to you, and not let you constantly be traveling with an adult Shrub while growing its little brother/replacement.
30 days is still 30 days, so even if you had one growing continuously, that could translate to months of real world time between shrub companions. They're more durable than the average familiar, but if attacked or caught in an AOE, it's going to go down pretty fast.
Given that the Shrub's default behavior is to do nothing, I'd agree to making it more agreeable. Without ambition, it doesn't really have any motivation to wander off.
Maybe one option could be to give it a regeneration ability, so that it regains 1hp at dawn unless killed with fire damage.
30 days to grow one, then it's charmed/friendly for 30 days and the item is destroyed. While it's friendly, you're growing a second one in a new pot. As long as one doesn't die prematurely before its 30 day term is up, you should always have a Shrub, after the first 30 day set up cycle.
But, that's a pretty big "as long as". But, I think being overly protective about your mushroom babies to make sure they grow up to be big and strong would be a fun RP quirk for a Firbolg Druid/Artificer :)
But, that's a pretty big "as long as". But, I think being overly protective about your mushroom babies to make sure they grow up to be big and strong would be a fun RP quirk for a Firbolg Druid/Artificer :)
Letting the plant advance would be a worthwhile incentive for keeping it safe. Maybe borrow the Beast Master companion template and scale it down accordingly.
Though, at this point, we're probably just creating a new subclass.
I had an Inquisitor Rogue / Gloomstalker Ranger that was amazing at this - and it wasn't even the focus of the character. Pick up Eldritch Adept or a level of Twilight Cleric, and your darkvision woes are over (although Gloomstalker takes care of that as well... I might still go with some warlock goodness though..). Chicken's ideas re Firbolg are interesting, as well. That's some good synergy...
While controversial, you could also do a Druid/Artificer multiclass to gain access to Arcane Armor. Since it magically adapts to the user's body, and can even replace missing limbs, I'd say it's fair to let it be used while Wildshaped. And since a 3 level dip would only cost 1 level of spell slot progression, it's not so bad in the long run.
There are some odd interactions to discuss with the DM, but the Infiltrator armor has a built-in ranged weapon, which greatly expands its potential for use on beasts.
A Giant Spider in Plate armor shooting lightning up to 300ft would be a sight to behold.
You can't wear metal armour as a druid, so the plate armour would have to be made from some organic material.
There is no actual prohibition against Druids wearing metal armor. They "won't" for conceptual reasons, but there are no consequences for doing so. A Paladin "won't" betray their god, but there is a whole Oathbreaker subclass that accommodates them if they do.
Even Buddhist monks are willing to eat meat if it is necessary to preserve their own life.
Narratively, the druid may simply have had a change of heart and moved into the big city, but they'd still retain all of their class features.
Maybe I'm too stuck on details, but there's a seemingly big glaring issue with OP's issue: it can all be fixed with a feat-- ritual caster. you literally get two ritual spells of 1st level, and guess what? that's what identify and detect magic are!
Maybe I'm too stuck on details, but there's a seemingly big glaring issue with OP's issue: it can all be fixed with a feat-- ritual caster. you literally get two ritual spells of 1st level, and guess what? that's what identify and detect magic are!
While casting Identify as a ritual spell is ok as long as you do it during downtime. Having to spend 10 minutes to ritual cast Detect Magic every 20 minutes is going to slow your group's progression to a crawl. That was why in my earlier post I proposed getting Eldritch Sight for the on demand Detect Magic.
Conjuration Wizard 2/Lore Bard X. Need a tool? conjure it with Minor Conjuration. and then be a Bard, jack of all trades, trip traps, pick locks, pull things open via a conjured crowbar.
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A while ago I made a character for a friend's campaign with the intention of making it very skilled at exploring dungeons (i.e., finding/disabling traps, finding secret doors, etc). The character I made was a variant human mastermind rogue. The idea here was that with variant human I could pick up the dungeon delver feat and as a rogue I could have expertise in my thieves' tools for disabling traps. Expertise was also used for boosting perception and investigation checks for finding hidden things.
After playing that character up to 8th level, I found the following flaws with my design: 1) Variant human was great for getting Dungeon Delver early, but came at the cost of not having darkvision. Hard to look ahead for traps in a dark dungeon unless you have torches. 2) No real way to explore "magical" aspects of areas. To be fully explorer buff, having spells like Detect Magic and Identify would be crucial. 3) While mastermind fit super thematically with my characters backstory, it really didn't offer much in the way of exploration abilities. Inquisitive might have been better, but then there would have also been some overlap with the Dungeon Delver feat.
All of this got me thinking, what is the best class/subclass/multiclass combo for building an Indiana Jones, dungeon explorer character? Maybe a warlock or wizard for Find Familiar? Maybe a bard for a mixture of magic and skill expertise? What are your thoughts? I'm especially curious now that Tasha's options are out
(also, just fyi, I am not playing this character anymore so I am not looking for suggestions on how to continue that build past level 8)
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
A Wizard using Tasha's Custom Origin so that you get a feat and darkvision. With the feat take Eldritch Adept to pick up Eldritch Sight. Make sure you take Mage Hand as one of your cantrips and Unseen Servant as one of your starting spells.
Your character can now cast Detect Magic at will without using a spell slot or materials. You can now ritual cast Unseen Servant and send it ahead of you to trigger any potential traps and you also have Mage Hand to fiddle with suspicious doors and whatnot from a safe distance.
Dungeon Delver is a trap in my opinion and not really worth taking.
Those all seem like great ideas. Although I disagree about Dungeon Delver. If you're building a character who is trying to explore places, having advantage on finding secret doors, advantage on saving throws against traps, and resistance to damage done by traps are all great. With it you almost guarantee with the right build you will find any and all secret doors, which could lead to more loot for the party or bypass more dangerous routes. Also, if you are already building to look for traps, you're either going to find them OR if you scout ahead and fail to spot it, youll have a better chance at surviving the trap than anyone else in the party. The better travel pace while searching for traps kinda depends on your DM. Unless the party is crunched for time while exploring, it won't make much of difference whether youre traveling slowly or not
The only place that I think things like detect magic and find familiar/unseen servant fall short for a dungeon delving build is that they will not detect or trigger traps. Not all traps are tied to doors or other things that mage hand and other spells interact with.
Admittedly, though, if you have a character with expertise in Perception or Investigation already, the advantages of Dungeon Delver may be overlapping and overkill at that point.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Firbolg are very versatile scouts, since they have:
Their only real weakness? No darkvision! Unless mitigated by class or kit, this is a pretty big shortcoming for a scout... but I really feel like their other Race Traits are so versatile, it's worth considering going out of your way with a class solution for that.
Good classes for scouts:
Put it all together, and what would I suggest?
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I'd propose Druid as a contender.
As mentioned, Expertise can be taken as a feat to cover skill bases, and a good background can grant proficiency in Thieve's Tools. Being a full caster means they get all of the benefits of magic, and they can summon allies to do what they can't.
Being able to transform makes them ridiculously versatile, and with the right magic items to round them out, you're golden.
Edit: Plus they get Thorn Whip, which is great for the Indiana Jones flair!
I like that suggestion as well. Also, just putting it out there, Druids that aren't Moon Druids are more MC friendly, since there's less of a rush to unlock CR-appropriate beast forms to stay on curve. Being a Druid/Monk can be a very effective way to make even basic druid wild shapes as good or better than the Moon Druid wild shapes (though, fewer HP), so I'd still recommend some Shadow Monk levels for a Druid Deliver.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
While controversial, you could also do a Druid/Artificer multiclass to gain access to Arcane Armor. Since it magically adapts to the user's body, and can even replace missing limbs, I'd say it's fair to let it be used while Wildshaped. And since a 3 level dip would only cost 1 level of spell slot progression, it's not so bad in the long run.
There are some odd interactions to discuss with the DM, but the Infiltrator armor has a built-in ranged weapon, which greatly expands its potential for use on beasts.
A Giant Spider in Plate armor shooting lightning up to 300ft would be a sight to behold.
I really like Druid Armorers too, what a fun build! I especially like the potential of building Pots of Awakening with your infusions, to give yourself a series of sidekick Awakened Shrubs instead of using Find Familiar, too :)
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
That's a great use of an Infusion for a Druid MC. There is no guarantee that the Awakened Shrub will stick around, since it's merely friendly toward you, but I'd totally allow it in my game. The only downside is the 30 day recharge window!
I'd probably work with my player to make it slightly more manageable, like burning spell slots to reduce the incubation period, or buying high quality fertilizer. Some kind of resource drain.
I suppose it's not explicitly RAW that a Pot of Awakening operates in the same manner that Awaken does, I hadn't really thought of that... Awaken does guarantee that the shrub is not only friendly, but in fact charmed ... but I suppose even that isn't a guarantee that it's willing to travel with you as your companion. The Pot does say that you can issue "commands" to it though, so I think it's reasonable to read that as giving you a Shrub companion for the 30 day window. But there is some room for a DM to be a jerk to you, and not let you constantly be traveling with an adult Shrub while growing its little brother/replacement.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
30 days is still 30 days, so even if you had one growing continuously, that could translate to months of real world time between shrub companions. They're more durable than the average familiar, but if attacked or caught in an AOE, it's going to go down pretty fast.
Given that the Shrub's default behavior is to do nothing, I'd agree to making it more agreeable. Without ambition, it doesn't really have any motivation to wander off.
Maybe one option could be to give it a regeneration ability, so that it regains 1hp at dawn unless killed with fire damage.
30 days to grow one, then it's charmed/friendly for 30 days and the item is destroyed. While it's friendly, you're growing a second one in a new pot. As long as one doesn't die prematurely before its 30 day term is up, you should always have a Shrub, after the first 30 day set up cycle.
But, that's a pretty big "as long as". But, I think being overly protective about your mushroom babies to make sure they grow up to be big and strong would be a fun RP quirk for a Firbolg Druid/Artificer :)
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Letting the plant advance would be a worthwhile incentive for keeping it safe. Maybe borrow the Beast Master companion template and scale it down accordingly.
Though, at this point, we're probably just creating a new subclass.
I had an Inquisitor Rogue / Gloomstalker Ranger that was amazing at this - and it wasn't even the focus of the character. Pick up Eldritch Adept or a level of Twilight Cleric, and your darkvision woes are over (although Gloomstalker takes care of that as well... I might still go with some warlock goodness though..). Chicken's ideas re Firbolg are interesting, as well. That's some good synergy...
You can't wear metal armour as a druid, so the plate armour would have to be made from some organic material.
There is no actual prohibition against Druids wearing metal armor. They "won't" for conceptual reasons, but there are no consequences for doing so. A Paladin "won't" betray their god, but there is a whole Oathbreaker subclass that accommodates them if they do.
Even Buddhist monks are willing to eat meat if it is necessary to preserve their own life.
Narratively, the druid may simply have had a change of heart and moved into the big city, but they'd still retain all of their class features.
Maybe I'm too stuck on details, but there's a seemingly big glaring issue with OP's issue: it can all be fixed with a feat-- ritual caster. you literally get two ritual spells of 1st level, and guess what? that's what identify and detect magic are!
While casting Identify as a ritual spell is ok as long as you do it during downtime. Having to spend 10 minutes to ritual cast Detect Magic every 20 minutes is going to slow your group's progression to a crawl. That was why in my earlier post I proposed getting Eldritch Sight for the on demand Detect Magic.
Conjuration Wizard 2/Lore Bard X. Need a tool? conjure it with Minor Conjuration. and then be a Bard, jack of all trades, trip traps, pick locks, pull things open via a conjured crowbar.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"