Our DM just gave us a Ring of Spell Storing (technically we took it from the dead body of an enemy but who's counting). I was familiar with the item but I didn't quite grasp it's potential for abuse until the DM started explaining all the restrictions it doesn't have. I had previously thought of it as a way for spellcasters to get a couple extra spell slots but he pointed out that anyone can cast the spells into it, it doesn't have to be the person using it. And the person using it doesn't have to be a spell caster. And there is nothing saying that you can't store Concentration spells in it.
Our first thoughts were some of the nice buffing spells that a couple party members have (Haste, Greater Invisibility) but the person benefitting from them (my Monk and our bow wielding Rogue, respectively) could be doing the Concentrating, freeing up the spell casters to concentrate on something else. Counterspell is always a good option (that is what the evil Paladin we took it from was using it for), Fireball is a classic but the options are vast. The DM mentioned putting Find Familiar in it and then passing it around to get us all familiars but what other crazy uses have people come up with for this item?
Man, if your DM is letting you pass around a Find Familiar for everyone, then if you have a Paladin or Bard, I would think that getting everyone Steeds or Greater Steeds would be a pretty big priority! And Homunculi too while you're at it, oh man oh jeez. Get the whole party new bodies with Magic Jar? Clone da boys? Simulacrum the Barbarian, Fighter, and Rogue?
Oh mannnnn are there some options to abuse, once non-casters start to get access to spells that create something without a limited duration.
Also, good way to protect your Wish caster from the risk of off-menu wishes, by letting it be the Fighter or someone else who actually says the words and risks never being allowed to cast Wish again if something goes wrong...
Looking at the Ring of Spell Storing more closely, it doesn't look to me like it allows the secondary cast to be any faster or use any fewer components than the first.
While wearing this ring, you can cast any spell stored in it. The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell attack bonus, and spellcasting ability of the original caster, but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell.
The ring version of the spell doesn't "use" the components or action economy that were spent putting it in, so... a spell that takes a minute to cast into the ring, still takes a minute to cast out of the ring (I don't mean that you'd be forced to cast the spell as a Ritual if the original caster had ritual cast it... more that you just need to still comply with the spell's casting time in its description, you can't launder that down to a generic "use magic item" action and disregard the spell description). A spell that consumes a costly component like Revivify, will still require the same component a second time when coming out of the ring.
That's kind of a bummer. In theory, it means that M spells will require the user to still have a free hand and a component pouch, since they won't even have the Spellcasting feature that would permit them to use Spell Focuses either.
Man, if your DM is letting you pass around a Find Familiar for everyone, then if you have a Paladin or Bard, I would think that getting everyone Steeds or Greater Steeds would be a pretty big priority! And Homunculi too while you're at it, oh man oh jeez. Get the whole party new bodies with Magic Jar? Clone da boys? Simulacrum the Barbarian, Fighter, and Rogue?
Oh mannnnn are there some options to abuse, once non-casters start to get access to spells that create something without a limited duration.
Well, it can only store up to 5 levels worth of spells so those last few starting with Homunculi are out but Steeds or Greater Steeds would theoretically be in. We have a Bard and a Wizard in our party and access to a Cleric, Warlock, Sorcerer and Ranger (though I have no idea what spells they actually have) so I'm assuming that pretty much any low level spell could be stored, with some effort and probably some gold.
The main benefits appear to be concentration spells, spells with a target of 'self', and spells that have a lasting effect that refers to the caster (such as familiar and steed, as discussed above). See Invisibility is actually pretty competitive for general use.
Shield would be pretty gross, I see why you might want several castings of that in there. Hex is one I was looking at, that would be awesome because it gives a little extra damage but I can use it to make my Monk shenanigans (Stunning Strike, Open Hand) more effective and if I kill the target I can just move it to someone else and start the fun all over again. Hunters Mark does some similar things but I think Hex would be a lot better if I was the one with the ring.
Taking the same amount of time to cast makes sense but are you saying you'd have to use the components a second time when you use the spell?
I don't see a way around it? "You can cast any spell stored within it." We know that casting a spell ordinarily involves having a Spellcasting feature (or other race/class/other feature allowing you to cast a spell), knowing/preparing the spell, using the appropriate action, fulfilling its components, and usually expending a spell slot or other limited use resource. We know that we can cross "Spellcasting", "knowing/preparing", and "spell slot" off that list, since the ring describes specific ways that those are bypassed for the user... but the appropriate action, and components? Nothing in the ring's description suggests that those have been replaced. In the SAC, there's the following:
A spell is a spell, no matter its source. When you cast a spell through a feature, the spell is subject to the normal spellcasting rules, unless the feature says otherwise.
Spellcasting rules provide that spell components must be satisfied to cast spells. You are casting the spell. Thus, you must provide spell components. The fact that someone else also cast the spell earlier for a different purpose and provided components for that casting, that has no real relevance to the fact that here and now, you need components to cast this spell.
Compare this Ring's function, vs. taking an action to Ready a spell for a later turn, or delivering a spell through Find Familiar. In those instances, there is one casting, but a delayed or transferred delivery of the single spell that is cast. For the ring, it's pretty clear that the spell is cast twice. And that's a good thing! Because that's what's letting the end-user be the caster of their own Find Familiar or whatever, instead of just delivering a spell that still looks back to the Wizard as its caster.
Revivify, to me, is a top priority for having in it. If only one person the party can cast it, but they go down, you can get them back up. And if no one in the party has it, it's double important to have in there.
Revivify, to me, is a top priority for having in it. If only one person the party can cast it, but they go down, you can get them back up. And if no one in the party has it, it's double important to have in there.
As long as you're willing to spend an extra 300 gp diamond for the privilege of loading it in there in addition to the one the user will have to use to cast it...
Well, first, if you're the one who's dead, you're not going to worry too much about how much it cost.
Second, I disagree you need to use the components twice. From the activating an item section of the DMG:
Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, and requires no components, unless the item's description says otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires concentration.
The ring description doesn't say it needs components, so it doesn't. I'd agree you need them to put a spell into the ring, but not to get it out.
Hmmm, that's a good find. I often forget to look for player rules in the DMG, since it has so few of them. Link to your information is in DMG Chapter 7: Treasure.
Activating an Item
Activating some magic items requires a user to do something in particular, such as holding the item and uttering a command word, reading the item if it is a scroll, or drinking it if it is a potion. The description of each item category or individual item details how an item is activated. Certain items use one or more of the following rules related to their activation.
If an item requires an action to activate, that action isn't a function of the Use an Object action, so a feature such as the rogue's Fast Hands can't be used to activate the item.
...
Spells
Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item, often by expending charges from it. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn’t expend any of the user’s spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description says otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires concentration. Many items, such as potions, bypass the casting of a spell and confer the spell’s effects with their usual duration. Certain items make exceptions to these rules, changing the casting time, duration, or other parts of a spell.
A magic item, such as certain staffs, may require you to use your own spellcasting ability when you cast a spell from the item. If you have more than one spellcasting ability, you choose which one to use with the item. If you don't have a spellcasting ability - perhaps you're a rogue with the Use Magic Device feature - your spellcasting ability modifier is +0 for the item, and your proficiency bonus does apply.
On the one hand, the Ring does describe itself as working differently from that in respect to caster level at least... but it doesn't have any language that would explicitly contradict the DMG for components, unless "otherwise treated as if you cast the spell" is enough to do that. I stand corrected!
Theoretically, if you could get a "God-Level" character to cast a spell into the ring, you could cast any spell with a Save DC of 25~30. Not necessarily realistic, but shifts the focus from the spell to the spellcaster. On a spell like Dominate Person, that basically becomes an instant win button, so long as the target doesn't have Legendary Resistances.
Similarly, a "God-Level" character casting something like Summon Celestial would give you a minion with an attack bonus of 17~23+.
Other than that, most things scale by Spell Level, not Caster stats, so that leads back to the previous suggestions for (semi-)permanent allies and sharing concentration. Just keep in mind that giving a concentration spell to a melee character is likely to result in a lot of concentration checks.
Hmmm.... Planar Ally in theory doesn't have a CR limit, and is all about transactional requests like "cast spells into this ring for me", but it's pretty hard to control what specific outsider gets sent to you (and thus, what their spell selection will be). I doubt you're going to get Demogorgon to show up and load a DC 23 Fear into your ring for you. Something reasonably powerful like a Rakshasa or Arcanaloth could probably be called and bargained with, but you're already likely to have the same or higher DC yourself by the time you can cast Planar Ally that those guys do. It seems like a Pit Fiend might be the only theoretically-summonable Fiend I can think of that would stand to have a higher DC than the party's caster, but not be so godlike that it wouldn't conceivably be willing to do some work in exchange for your soul.
One could technically use the Cleric's Divine Intervention feature to gain access to potent spells, but at that point, you could probably ask for something more useful than a single spell.
Our DM just gave us a Ring of Spell Storing (technically we took it from the dead body of an enemy but who's counting). I was familiar with the item but I didn't quite grasp it's potential for abuse until the DM started explaining all the restrictions it doesn't have. I had previously thought of it as a way for spellcasters to get a couple extra spell slots but he pointed out that anyone can cast the spells into it, it doesn't have to be the person using it. And the person using it doesn't have to be a spell caster. And there is nothing saying that you can't store Concentration spells in it.
Our first thoughts were some of the nice buffing spells that a couple party members have (Haste, Greater Invisibility) but the person benefitting from them (my Monk and our bow wielding Rogue, respectively) could be doing the Concentrating, freeing up the spell casters to concentrate on something else. Counterspell is always a good option (that is what the evil Paladin we took it from was using it for), Fireball is a classic but the options are vast. The DM mentioned putting Find Familiar in it and then passing it around to get us all familiars but what other crazy uses have people come up with for this item?
Those would be high on my list:
Monk: shield (several), absorb element, divine favour, hex, hunters mark, fly, enlarge/reduce
Rogue: bless, absorb element, enhance ability, misty step, shadow blade, feather fall
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]Man, if your DM is letting you pass around a Find Familiar for everyone, then if you have a Paladin or Bard, I would think that getting everyone Steeds or Greater Steeds would be a pretty big priority! And Homunculi too while you're at it, oh man oh jeez. Get the whole party new bodies with Magic Jar? Clone da boys? Simulacrum the Barbarian, Fighter, and Rogue?
Oh mannnnn are there some options to abuse, once non-casters start to get access to spells that create something without a limited duration.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Also, good way to protect your Wish caster from the risk of off-menu wishes, by letting it be the Fighter or someone else who actually says the words and risks never being allowed to cast Wish again if something goes wrong...
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Most rings of spell storing have a limit of 5 spell levels or less. So for example 5x1st lvl or 2x2nd lvl+1x1st or 1x5th lvl...
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]Haha oh jeez I guess they anticipated that then... oh well, still a good way to get a Steed though :p
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Looking at the Ring of Spell Storing more closely, it doesn't look to me like it allows the secondary cast to be any faster or use any fewer components than the first.
The ring version of the spell doesn't "use" the components or action economy that were spent putting it in, so... a spell that takes a minute to cast into the ring, still takes a minute to cast out of the ring (I don't mean that you'd be forced to cast the spell as a Ritual if the original caster had ritual cast it... more that you just need to still comply with the spell's casting time in its description, you can't launder that down to a generic "use magic item" action and disregard the spell description). A spell that consumes a costly component like Revivify, will still require the same component a second time when coming out of the ring.
That's kind of a bummer. In theory, it means that M spells will require the user to still have a free hand and a component pouch, since they won't even have the Spellcasting feature that would permit them to use Spell Focuses either.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Well, it can only store up to 5 levels worth of spells so those last few starting with Homunculi are out but Steeds or Greater Steeds would theoretically be in. We have a Bard and a Wizard in our party and access to a Cleric, Warlock, Sorcerer and Ranger (though I have no idea what spells they actually have) so I'm assuming that pretty much any low level spell could be stored, with some effort and probably some gold.
Taking the same amount of time to cast makes sense but are you saying you'd have to use the components a second time when you use the spell?
The main benefits appear to be concentration spells, spells with a target of 'self', and spells that have a lasting effect that refers to the caster (such as familiar and steed, as discussed above). See Invisibility is actually pretty competitive for general use.
Shield would be pretty gross, I see why you might want several castings of that in there. Hex is one I was looking at, that would be awesome because it gives a little extra damage but I can use it to make my Monk shenanigans (Stunning Strike, Open Hand) more effective and if I kill the target I can just move it to someone else and start the fun all over again. Hunters Mark does some similar things but I think Hex would be a lot better if I was the one with the ring.
I don't see a way around it? "You can cast any spell stored within it." We know that casting a spell ordinarily involves having a Spellcasting feature (or other race/class/other feature allowing you to cast a spell), knowing/preparing the spell, using the appropriate action, fulfilling its components, and usually expending a spell slot or other limited use resource. We know that we can cross "Spellcasting", "knowing/preparing", and "spell slot" off that list, since the ring describes specific ways that those are bypassed for the user... but the appropriate action, and components? Nothing in the ring's description suggests that those have been replaced. In the SAC, there's the following:
Spellcasting rules provide that spell components must be satisfied to cast spells. You are casting the spell. Thus, you must provide spell components. The fact that someone else also cast the spell earlier for a different purpose and provided components for that casting, that has no real relevance to the fact that here and now, you need components to cast this spell.
Compare this Ring's function, vs. taking an action to Ready a spell for a later turn, or delivering a spell through Find Familiar. In those instances, there is one casting, but a delayed or transferred delivery of the single spell that is cast. For the ring, it's pretty clear that the spell is cast twice. And that's a good thing! Because that's what's letting the end-user be the caster of their own Find Familiar or whatever, instead of just delivering a spell that still looks back to the Wizard as its caster.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Revivify, to me, is a top priority for having in it. If only one person the party can cast it, but they go down, you can get them back up. And if no one in the party has it, it's double important to have in there.
As long as you're willing to spend an extra 300 gp diamond for the privilege of loading it in there in addition to the one the user will have to use to cast it...
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Well, first, if you're the one who's dead, you're not going to worry too much about how much it cost.
Second, I disagree you need to use the components twice. From the activating an item section of the DMG:
Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, and requires no components, unless the item's description says otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires concentration.
The ring description doesn't say it needs components, so it doesn't. I'd agree you need them to put a spell into the ring, but not to get it out.
Hmmm, that's a good find. I often forget to look for player rules in the DMG, since it has so few of them. Link to your information is in DMG Chapter 7: Treasure.
On the one hand, the Ring does describe itself as working differently from that in respect to caster level at least... but it doesn't have any language that would explicitly contradict the DMG for components, unless "otherwise treated as if you cast the spell" is enough to do that. I stand corrected!
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Theoretically, if you could get a "God-Level" character to cast a spell into the ring, you could cast any spell with a Save DC of 25~30. Not necessarily realistic, but shifts the focus from the spell to the spellcaster. On a spell like Dominate Person, that basically becomes an instant win button, so long as the target doesn't have Legendary Resistances.
Similarly, a "God-Level" character casting something like Summon Celestial would give you a minion with an attack bonus of 17~23+.
Other than that, most things scale by Spell Level, not Caster stats, so that leads back to the previous suggestions for (semi-)permanent allies and sharing concentration. Just keep in mind that giving a concentration spell to a melee character is likely to result in a lot of concentration checks.
Hmmm.... Planar Ally in theory doesn't have a CR limit, and is all about transactional requests like "cast spells into this ring for me", but it's pretty hard to control what specific outsider gets sent to you (and thus, what their spell selection will be). I doubt you're going to get Demogorgon to show up and load a DC 23 Fear into your ring for you. Something reasonably powerful like a Rakshasa or Arcanaloth could probably be called and bargained with, but you're already likely to have the same or higher DC yourself by the time you can cast Planar Ally that those guys do. It seems like a Pit Fiend might be the only theoretically-summonable Fiend I can think of that would stand to have a higher DC than the party's caster, but not be so godlike that it wouldn't conceivably be willing to do some work in exchange for your soul.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
One could technically use the Cleric's Divine Intervention feature to gain access to potent spells, but at that point, you could probably ask for something more useful than a single spell.
Tooltipping to see if it's below 6: Tenser's transformation. Nope.
I have a weird sense of humor.
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