I have just started playing a cleric and previously played a wizard. The cleric has no ranged attack roll spell cantrip like firebolt or ray or frost. They only have spells with DC saves. Our group only plays official rules and we do not use home brew stuff. Hoping that the next unearthed arcana adds one for the cleric. If anyone has any influence please pass this along.
Yes! Clerics should have attack spells so they can be more like wizards and sorcerers! Wizards need more melee options and fighters should have a hot line to the deities. And my barbarian wants to charm monsters by playing the harp.
We had a thief in our party who seemed happy to skulk about, picking pockets, opening chests, climbing walls and stabbing the occasional monster in painful parts. We had to boot him from the party for being too weird.
The Arcana Domain is not the only one that enables you to take a ranged spell attack cantrip.
Death Domain Clerics can take one necromancy cantrip from any spell list and have it hit two targets on top of that. Chill Touch is a ranged spell attack that they can take with this.
Nature Domain Clerics can take one druid cantrip. From this you can select Produce Flame.
Otherwise I agree with Stormknight, this seems to primarily be an intentional design decision.
Yes! Clerics should have attack spells so they can be more like wizards and sorcerers! Wizards need more melee options and fighters should have a hot line to the deities. And my barbarian wants to charm monsters by playing the harp.
We had a thief in our party who seemed happy to skulk about, picking pockets, opening chests, climbing walls and stabbing the occasional monster in painful parts. We had to boot him from the party for being too weird.
I think this is an unfair critic.
Without XgtE, there is only a single offensive cantrip and there is an entire Cleric ability set which is based around improving the damage of cantrips (Potent Cantrip).
This ability doesn't scale as the melee power and doesn't allow the Cleric any options other then Sacred Flame... Which also is nullified by Dex which is a save in a lot of monsters.
Also a personal point, Save or Spells I think feel less good to a player, Because it removes agency from the PC and gives it to the GM.
Also a personal point, Save or Spells I think feel less good to a player, Because it removes agency from the PC and gives it to the GM.
I feel it's partly by design, having the mechanics encourage the more supportive role the class is intended to be. But, that said, yeah it's inherently less satisfying to a player to do something that gives their die roll over to someone else, essentially. I get that.
That said, another build option for a more engaging range oriented cleric would be to have a Dex/Wis focus with your attributes, and bring along a crossbow and the spiritual weapon spell. The crossbow won't scale as well in raw damage as your cantrips, and any clerics with a divine smite feature won't be able to take advantage of it unless it's a melee attack. But spiritual weapon can sort of make up for it; lot of bang for your buck, so to speak.
I would like to defend my point. I shall be using some sweeping generalisations that obviously don't apply to anybody here, or in fact anybody you know of.
People these days are far too quick to demand game designers (Normally video games, TBH) change their games to fit their own personal view of what they think would be better/more enjoyable. Often these people have had a flash of 'inspiration' (probably a rare occurence) and can't wait to share this epiphany with the multiverse and or virtual community. They rush out to the nearest town crier/internet cafe and broadcast their genius idea before even considering if they actually need the change or with a little effort on their behalf (oh, the horror!) could achieve the desired result with what is already available...
On those rare occasions when the cleric finds himself with nothing to do as the nearest monster is 30 foot away and nobody is bleeding, perhaps he could keep an eye out for attacks from the rear, or give spiritual advice to the party rogue. He could pray to his deity, giving thanks for the hearty meal he ate at breakfast and asking for the opportunity for another 'short break' after the impending violence. I mean, isn't that what religious types do?
If you really feel the need to be able to contribute violence to every situation, then there are ways built into 5th Edition - it's called multi-classing. For just one level of wizard you can have Ray of Frost - 60ft range and allows YOU, YES YOU! to roll the attack and damage dice.
Another bizarre idea that I got from checking the starting gear of a first level kneeler - you start with a holy symbol that you could chuck at the monsters. I'm sure your local Bishop won't mind selling you a couple more for such a holy (and re-usable) purpose. I have listed your starting equipment as proof that you really do start with a holy symbol that you could use for missile combat. In a pinch, you could probably fill your priest's pack with holy books and lob that at the enemy too. A dozen books landing simultaneously on the old noggin has gotta hurt more than being attacked by a 20ft long strip of rawhide.
Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
(a) a mace or (b) a warhammer (if proficient)
(a) scale mail, (b) leather armor, or (c) chain mail (if proficient)
(a) a light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) any simple weapon
Hey Plundered I imagine you feel your phrasing is the epitome of dry wit, but really, you're just coming off as an unbearably sarcastic, condescending jerk.
If you don't like a player approaching a class usually fitted for a specific role and trying to find a way to make it fit their preferred playstyle, you can not participate in the discussion. Or, you know, explain that you prefer that it's set up that way by design without being rude.
Ooh, someone got myxomotosis under the tree this year! :)
My point was that they are not 'trying to make it fit' as you put it. The OP was asking for new rules (well extra cantrips) to allow him to have a missile attack. That option is already there.
I have no issue with people going beyond the rules or trying something different, but if the rules change to make his quirky character the new normal, what has he achieved?
These days it seems that everybody is getting a tattoo. The new rebellion is NOT to have tattoos.
If you want to stand out from the crowd you have to break the norm, not convince everyone else to follow. I guess you can be Stylish or Fashionable, but rarely both.
As for your suggestions that I could "not participate in the discussion"; ridiculous - you would have to unbind Fenrir and use those chains on me to keep me away from any debate that looks interesting! If you don't speak up, people assume you agree.
Clerics already have two of the best low level attack roll spells (Inflict Wounds and Spiritual Weapon), enough armor to be effective in close combat (they can use shields as a spellcasting focus...) and the one cantrip they get in the Player's Handbook is one of the best in the game for dealing with high AC enemies. They really don't need much else. As Rabbot points out, if you want to be more wizardy, the Arcana domain is right up your alley.
Hey Plundered I imagine you feel your phrasing is the epitome of dry wit, but really, you're just coming off as an unbearably sarcastic, condescending jerk.
I thought it was funny. Obviously, you and FullMetalBunny didn't. Different senses of humor, I suppose.
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Just a quick note - please avoid directing criticism or insults at other users.
This thread is skirting the edges of what is acceptable on these forums - it is perfectly possible to debate differing views, without needing to attack, or belittle, the person who holds those views.
I have just started playing a cleric and previously played a wizard. The cleric has no ranged attack roll spell cantrip like firebolt or ray or frost. They only have spells with DC saves. Our group only plays official rules and we do not use home brew stuff. Hoping that the next unearthed arcana adds one for the cleric. If anyone has any influence please pass this along.
Spell sniper, or magic initiate feats could help with that. If you still feel the need and feats are an option for you.
Perpetually annoyed that Eldritch Knights can't use Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Smite, and Eldritch Sight.
There's also the arcana domain for clerics. At level 1 they can take two wizard cantrips but still use their wisdom to cast 'em.
I was not sure if the arcana cleric was officially adopted. Where do I find info on it?
It's in the Sword Coast Adventure Guide, aka the SCAG. I dunno if it's ADL legal but I can't imagine why it wouldn't be.
Yes!
Clerics should have attack spells so they can be more like wizards and sorcerers!
Wizards need more melee options and fighters should have a hot line to the deities.
And my barbarian wants to charm monsters by playing the harp.
We had a thief in our party who seemed happy to skulk about, picking pockets, opening chests, climbing walls and stabbing the occasional monster in painful parts. We had to boot him from the party for being too weird.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
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D&D Beyond FoundersI think it's a design decision - that makes clerics different to Wizards, Sorcerers and their ilk.
Clerics can wear much better armour and use decent weapons, so are designed much more with melee combat in mind.
They get plenty of options for ranged spell combat at higher levels too.
Guiding Bolt is really good imho.
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The Arcana Domain is not the only one that enables you to take a ranged spell attack cantrip.
Otherwise I agree with Stormknight, this seems to primarily be an intentional design decision.
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My homebrew: [Subclasses] [Races] [Feats] [Discussion Thread]
I get it. A cleric is a cleric. Thanks.
@ FullMetalBunny:
I would like to defend my point. I shall be using some sweeping generalisations that obviously don't apply to anybody here, or in fact anybody you know of.
People these days are far too quick to demand game designers (Normally video games, TBH) change their games to fit their own personal view of what they think would be better/more enjoyable. Often these people have had a flash of 'inspiration' (probably a rare occurence) and can't wait to share this epiphany with the multiverse and or virtual community. They rush out to the nearest town crier/internet cafe and broadcast their genius idea before even considering if they actually need the change or with a little effort on their behalf (oh, the horror!) could achieve the desired result with what is already available...
On those rare occasions when the cleric finds himself with nothing to do as the nearest monster is 30 foot away and nobody is bleeding, perhaps he could keep an eye out for attacks from the rear, or give spiritual advice to the party rogue. He could pray to his deity, giving thanks for the hearty meal he ate at breakfast and asking for the opportunity for another 'short break' after the impending violence. I mean, isn't that what religious types do?
If you really feel the need to be able to contribute violence to every situation, then there are ways built into 5th Edition - it's called multi-classing. For just one level of wizard you can have Ray of Frost - 60ft range and allows YOU, YES YOU! to roll the attack and damage dice.
Another bizarre idea that I got from checking the starting gear of a first level kneeler - you start with a holy symbol that you could chuck at the monsters. I'm sure your local Bishop won't mind selling you a couple more for such a holy (and re-usable) purpose. I have listed your starting equipment as proof that you really do start with a holy symbol that you could use for missile combat. In a pinch, you could probably fill your priest's pack with holy books and lob that at the enemy too. A dozen books landing simultaneously on the old noggin has gotta hurt more than being attacked by a 20ft long strip of rawhide.
Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Hey Plundered I imagine you feel your phrasing is the epitome of dry wit, but really, you're just coming off as an unbearably sarcastic, condescending jerk.
If you don't like a player approaching a class usually fitted for a specific role and trying to find a way to make it fit their preferred playstyle, you can not participate in the discussion. Or, you know, explain that you prefer that it's set up that way by design without being rude.
Just a thought.
Ooh, someone got myxomotosis under the tree this year! :)
My point was that they are not 'trying to make it fit' as you put it. The OP was asking for new rules (well extra cantrips) to allow him to have a missile attack.
That option is already there.
I have no issue with people going beyond the rules or trying something different, but if the rules change to make his quirky character the new normal, what has he achieved?
These days it seems that everybody is getting a tattoo. The new rebellion is NOT to have tattoos.
If you want to stand out from the crowd you have to break the norm, not convince everyone else to follow.
I guess you can be Stylish or Fashionable, but rarely both.
As for your suggestions that I could "not participate in the discussion"; ridiculous - you would have to unbind Fenrir and use those chains on me to keep me away from any debate that looks interesting!
If you don't speak up, people assume you agree.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Clerics already have two of the best low level attack roll spells (Inflict Wounds and Spiritual Weapon), enough armor to be effective in close combat (they can use shields as a spellcasting focus...) and the one cantrip they get in the Player's Handbook is one of the best in the game for dealing with high AC enemies. They really don't need much else. As Rabbot points out, if you want to be more wizardy, the Arcana domain is right up your alley.
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D&D Beyond FoundersJust a quick note - please avoid directing criticism or insults at other users.
This thread is skirting the edges of what is acceptable on these forums - it is perfectly possible to debate differing views, without needing to attack, or belittle, the person who holds those views.
Thank you all. :)
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊