No, but a feat that consists of almost nothing but bad options is a different matter. And many of the species traits that would merit being feat'd don't necessarily feel like "Character of Mixed Heritage". Gnome Cunning for advantage on mental saves is mostly just free advantage on mental saves. Same with Magic Resistance from satyrs or yuan-ti, or most any of the damage resistance traits. The things 'Good Players' would use the feat for aren't going to work for the intended goal of "create mixed heritage character that feels like mixed heritage character", so the feat is even worse than it'd otherwise be. And it starts as terrible, sooooooooooooooooooooooo..................
Yeah, a lot of the valuable species features aren't terribly flavorful. For most species, it's the ribbon features that really make them distinctive, and ribbon features really aren't worth a feat (if it's worth a feat, it's not a ribbon).
Yeah, a lot of the valuable species features aren't terribly flavorful. For most species, it's the ribbon features that really make them distinctive, and ribbon features really aren't worth a feat (if it's worth a feat, it's not a ribbon).
Giant Ancestry isn't a good way of representing goliath blood? Fiendish Legacy doesn't add any flavor to a tiefling? Elven Lineage doesn't make elves feel like the inherently magical species they are? Even Adrenaline Rush seems like a very orcish ability. These are some solid, flavorful, distinctive features that are almost definitely worth a feat.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I don't want features in the game that allow such a wide gulf of difference between the right choice and the wrong one.
Let's imagine two players pick the same race, and the race has only one feature where they have to choose something. One of them chooses the ability to cast a really good spell a bunch of times in a day. And the other one chooses the ability to... not have their already-below-average movement speed, reduced further, during the times when they happen to be wearing the wrong kind of armor, provided that they don't have a good STR score, because if they do have a good STR score then this doesn't do anything.
That would be a failure on the part of the designers.
That's what the proposed "pick a racial feature" feat would be. I don't think that's acceptable design for this game. It might work for a different game. One where you can freely rebuild your character, perhaps, or one where you can expect your character to get many upgrades that will radically and unpredictably eclipse whatever garbage you started out with. But not D&D. And especially not for a racial feature! That's probably the one thing that's the hardest to retroactively fix when you eventually discover how miserable it can be to play a truly suboptimal build in a long-running game!
Here's a thought: Flight is a racial feature, Fly is a spell. Darkvision is both a racial feature and a spell. How far can we get just by replacing all racial features with analogous spells? "You are constantly under the effects of the Fly spell. Blah blah blah it isn't magic." Because spells are already pretty clearly delineated in terms of power level.
Giant Ancestry isn't a good way of representing goliath blood? Fiendish Legacy doesn't add any flavor to a tiefling? Elven Lineage doesn't make elves feel like the inherently magical species they are? Even Adrenaline Rush seems like a very orcish ability. These are some solid, flavorful, distinctive features that are almost definitely worth a feat.
Giant Ancestry isn't a particularly good way of representing Goliath blood -- it's pretty much just a generic elemental affinity. I'd pick Powerful Build and Large Form
Fiendish Legacy is decent for a tiefling.
Elven Lineage isn't a particularly good way of representing Elvish blood, it's just a focused Magic Initiate. I'd pick Trance and Fey Ancestry.
Adrenaline Rush is a marginal feat because it collides with a bunch of other ways of doing the same thing.
I don't want features in the game that allow such a wide gulf of difference between the right choice and the wrong one.
Let's imagine two players pick the same race, and the race has only one feature where they have to choose something. One of them chooses the ability to cast a really good spell a bunch of times in a day. And the other one chooses the ability to... not have their already-below-average movement speed, reduced further, during the times when they happen to be wearing the wrong kind of armor, provided that they don't have a good STR score, because if they do have a good STR score then this doesn't do anything.
That would be a failure on the part of the designers.
Yeah but like... the problem there is that Option 2 shouldn't be a racial at all. (And lo and behold - in 5.5e it won't be, because the designers realized it sucked axe. Problem solved!)
Here's a thought: Flight is a racial feature, Fly is a spell. Darkvision is both a racial feature and a spell. How far can we get just by replacing all racial features with analogous spells? "You are constantly under the effects of the Fly spell. Blah blah blah it isn't magic." Because spells are already pretty clearly delineated in terms of power level.
Racial flight isn't really analogous to the fly spell - you covered the constant duration part, but there's also the fact that it doesn't require concentration. It also has downsides like being self-only and not allowing you to wear medium or heavy armor. And when it relies on wings it's easier to interfere with.
Racial flight isn't really analogous to the fly spell - you covered the constant duration part, but there's also the fact that it doesn't require concentration. It also has downsides like being self-only and not allowing you to wear medium or heavy armor. And when it relies on wings it's easier to interfere with.
It also doesn't have the hover trait, so you fall if immobilized or knocked prone, though monsters that can hit flying targets and do either one are relatively rare.
Yeah that's part of what I meant with the last sentence, though I acknowledge I wasn't as clear as I could have been. Since you're not flying with magic, that trait's absence is important.
Instead of choosing one of the game’s species for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character’s lineage. This can represent mixed lineages or completely new linages.
Creature Type. You are a humanoid. You determine your appearance and whether you resemble any of your kin.
Size. You are Small or Medium (your choice).
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Variable Traits. You gain three of the following options of your choice (you may only choose a letter once even if it has multiple choices):
(a) Darkvision- darkvision with a range of 60 feet
(b) Skillful- proficiency in one skill of your choice.
(c) Draconic Breath -choose acid, cold, fire, or lightning and gain Dragonborn’s Breath Weapon of that type.
(d) Resistance- choose acid, cold, fire, lightning, necrotic, poison, psychic, radiant, or thunder and gain resistance to that damage type
(e) Magical lineage- choose from arcane, divine or primal spell list. You gain one cantrip, and one 1st level spell of your choice from that list. You can cast the 1st spell once without expending a spell slot. You can use spell slots to cast the spell normally.
(f) Toughness - Your hp max increases by 1 and it increases by 1 again each time you gain a level.
(g) Powerful Build- You count as one size larger
(h) Fey Ancestry- advantage against being charmed
(i) Cunning- Choose between Int, Wis, or Cha and you have advantage on all saving throws of that type.
(j) Nimbleness- you may move through the space of a creature a size larger than you but can not stop there.
(k) Ancestral Movement- You gain one of the following: (1)Speed becomes 35, (2) can cast Misty Step half your proficiency bonus rounded down times per long rest without expending a spell slot. Can cast it normally with spell slots, (3) Climb speed, (4) Swim speed, (5) Dash as bonus action proficiency times per long rest
(m) Amphibious- you can breath air and water
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and one other language that you and your DM agree is appropriate for your character.
I’m sure this needs some work, but this might be a better method than a feat.
It’s a nice idea, but personally I don’t think there needs to be that many choices. I would get rid of C, D, E, J and K (but keep option 1)
And have this alongside the option to pick one of your parents and use that species’s traits, if they really want the options of the ones I said get rid of.
Custom Lineage is already part of the game so updating it with more options seems like a good route. Along with the UA option so there are “official” means. And then there is always homebrew for those that these options don’t quite fit their build
The issue with that is, it doesn't include expansion content. When they release the next "X's Y to Everything" book and it contains the Lobsterfolk race, you won't have any way to make a half-lobster using that template.
The issue with that is, it doesn't include expansion content. When they release the next "X's Y to Everything" book and it contains the Lobsterfolk race, you won't have any way to make a half-lobster using that template.
And there are one or possibly two sets of 3 choices that vastly outperform every other set of choices. If things like free access to any two spells you want (everyone takes shield) are on the list that choice needs to take two or even three points to pick.
The issue with that is, it doesn't include expansion content. When they release the next "X's Y to Everything" book and it contains the Lobsterfolk race, you won't have any way to make a half-lobster using that template.
While it would preclude new species introduced I think a limited list would cover most bases.
I forgot to include option (i) in my list of options that should be removed. I think the remaining options would cover most and you can still have the option to choose one parent and use their traits. You can’t have “all the things” to choose from. Otherwise why bother with species at all.
I could see a feat that grants an option or two from a curated list of "humanoid traits" that precludes the weakest options as a viable approach here. But as ChoirofFire said, that would be impossible to future-proof in a way that my suggestion isn't. We already know we're getting at least one new humanoid that won't be in the 2024 PHB (the Ardling, at a future date) and they haven't even nailed down what features it will end up with, and there will be more beyond that as well.
The issue with that is, it doesn't include expansion content. When they release the next "X's Y to Everything" book and it contains the Lobsterfolk race, you won't have any way to make a half-lobster using that template.
Well I think Lobster species is covered by Ancestral Movement swim speed and amphibious. Maybe I should add (n) Carapace- you gain a +1 to your AC when not wearing armor. This works while carrying a shield. also (p) Natural Weapon- you have a bite, claw, or tail whip that deals 1d6 Bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage on hit. Choose the damage type when you select this trait.
My goal of the species was to cover mixed ancestry and original species as well, so I would be fine adding more options. Also I know some of the options aren’t balanced. I’m a DM and I enjoy design experiments and discussions, but I’m not a designer.
The issue with that is, it doesn't include expansion content. When they release the next "X's Y to Everything" book and it contains the Lobsterfolk race, you won't have any way to make a half-lobster using that template.
Well I think Lobster species is covered by Ancestral Movement swim speed and amphibious. Maybe I should add (n) Carapace- you gain a +1 to your AC when not wearing armor. This works while carrying a shield. also (p) Natural Weapon- you have a bite, claw, or tail whip that deals 1d6 Bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage on hit. Choose the damage type when you select this trait.
My goal of the species was to cover mixed ancestry and original species as well, so I would be fine adding more options. Also I know some of the options aren’t balanced. I’m a DM and I enjoy design experiments and discussions, but I’m not a designer.
I think the point is more, we can’t know what would be covered in this lobster species until we actually have it in hand. Otherwise, you’re just kind of deciding what features it has, and they quite conveniently line up with those in the proposed feat. They may have new features that aren’t covered. I mean, you could have written one early in 5e, but then they release plasmoid or thri-kreen which have things that are completely foreign to early species. So, if you make a feat like this, you end up restricting options in future species. We can argue about whether or not that restriction is a good idea, but that’s a different conversation.
Whether it's treated as a list of actual feats (1st level feats, physiological feats, whatever), or a list of traits for a more specific rule, it can be extended. (Much like how the game can add fighting styles, or invocations, etc.) Adding new species would be simply a matter of adding new options alongside new lore. Like it is now, just more systemized.
The issue with that is, it doesn't include expansion content. When they release the next "X's Y to Everything" book and it contains the Lobsterfolk race, you won't have any way to make a half-lobster using that template.
Well I think Lobster species is covered by Ancestral Movement swim speed and amphibious. Maybe I should add (n) Carapace- you gain a +1 to your AC when not wearing armor. This works while carrying a shield. also (p) Natural Weapon- you have a bite, claw, or tail whip that deals 1d6 Bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage on hit. Choose the damage type when you select this trait.
My goal of the species was to cover mixed ancestry and original species as well, so I would be fine adding more options. Also I know some of the options aren’t balanced. I’m a DM and I enjoy design experiments and discussions, but I’m not a designer.
I think the point is more, we can’t know what would be covered in this lobster species until we actually have it in hand. Otherwise, you’re just kind of deciding what features it has, and they quite conveniently line up with those in the proposed feat. They may have new features that aren’t covered. I mean, you could have written one early in 5e, but then they release plasmoid or thri-kreen which have things that are completely foreign to early species. So, if you make a feat like this, you end up restricting options in future species. We can argue about whether or not that restriction is a good idea, but that’s a different conversation.
That’s why I moved from a fear and to an improved Custom Lineage offered in Tasha’s. It allows more flexibility and I tried to make sure the abilities weren’t exactly the same as the species I took them from were I could. That way they could represent different aspects of a creature. Honestly I looking at it again I would change Draconic Breath into Elemental blast making it only a cone that comes from your mouth or hands so it could be used as Breath weapon or some kind of Genasi. My design goal isn’t to perfectly replicate features from other species, but to give player the mechanical freedom to feel like they are multi species or a completely new species.
Obviously the lobsterfolk's main defining feature is their total immunity to one spell of their choice. It's drawn from the classic myth of the lobster that we all heard as kids.
Except in the rework, where their lore was changed to have them come from the Astral Plane, and they lost the spell immunity but gained the ability to move 3-dimensionally a number of feet equal to the result of their Intelligence check.
Can't believe y'all don't know about the history of this iconic D&D race I just made up.
It would certainly be possible to create a batch of ancestry feats and have a custom ancestry that amount to 'pick any two', but it would be a significant amount of extra rules that I doubt they want to bother with.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
No, but a feat that consists of almost nothing but bad options is a different matter. And many of the species traits that would merit being feat'd don't necessarily feel like "Character of Mixed Heritage". Gnome Cunning for advantage on mental saves is mostly just free advantage on mental saves. Same with Magic Resistance from satyrs or yuan-ti, or most any of the damage resistance traits. The things 'Good Players' would use the feat for aren't going to work for the intended goal of "create mixed heritage character that feels like mixed heritage character", so the feat is even worse than it'd otherwise be. And it starts as terrible, sooooooooooooooooooooooo..................
Please do not contact or message me.
Yeah, a lot of the valuable species features aren't terribly flavorful. For most species, it's the ribbon features that really make them distinctive, and ribbon features really aren't worth a feat (if it's worth a feat, it's not a ribbon).
Giant Ancestry isn't a good way of representing goliath blood? Fiendish Legacy doesn't add any flavor to a tiefling? Elven Lineage doesn't make elves feel like the inherently magical species they are? Even Adrenaline Rush seems like a very orcish ability. These are some solid, flavorful, distinctive features that are almost definitely worth a feat.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I don't want features in the game that allow such a wide gulf of difference between the right choice and the wrong one.
Let's imagine two players pick the same race, and the race has only one feature where they have to choose something. One of them chooses the ability to cast a really good spell a bunch of times in a day. And the other one chooses the ability to... not have their already-below-average movement speed, reduced further, during the times when they happen to be wearing the wrong kind of armor, provided that they don't have a good STR score, because if they do have a good STR score then this doesn't do anything.
That would be a failure on the part of the designers.
That's what the proposed "pick a racial feature" feat would be. I don't think that's acceptable design for this game. It might work for a different game. One where you can freely rebuild your character, perhaps, or one where you can expect your character to get many upgrades that will radically and unpredictably eclipse whatever garbage you started out with. But not D&D. And especially not for a racial feature! That's probably the one thing that's the hardest to retroactively fix when you eventually discover how miserable it can be to play a truly suboptimal build in a long-running game!
Here's a thought: Flight is a racial feature, Fly is a spell. Darkvision is both a racial feature and a spell. How far can we get just by replacing all racial features with analogous spells? "You are constantly under the effects of the Fly spell. Blah blah blah it isn't magic." Because spells are already pretty clearly delineated in terms of power level.
Yeah but like... the problem there is that Option 2 shouldn't be a racial at all. (And lo and behold - in 5.5e it won't be, because the designers realized it sucked axe. Problem solved!)
Racial flight isn't really analogous to the fly spell - you covered the constant duration part, but there's also the fact that it doesn't require concentration. It also has downsides like being self-only and not allowing you to wear medium or heavy armor. And when it relies on wings it's easier to interfere with.
It also doesn't have the hover trait, so you fall if immobilized or knocked prone, though monsters that can hit flying targets and do either one are relatively rare.
Yeah that's part of what I meant with the last sentence, though I acknowledge I wasn't as clear as I could have been. Since you're not flying with magic, that trait's absence is important.
Instead of a feat what about this as a species.
CUSTOM LINEAGE
Instead of choosing one of the game’s species for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character’s lineage. This can represent mixed lineages or completely new linages.
Creature Type. You are a humanoid. You determine your appearance and whether you resemble any of your kin.
Size. You are Small or Medium (your choice).
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Variable Traits. You gain three of the following options of your choice (you may only choose a letter once even if it has multiple choices):
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and one other language that you and your DM agree is appropriate for your character.
I’m sure this needs some work, but this might be a better method than a feat.
It’s a nice idea, but personally I don’t think there needs to be that many choices. I would get rid of C, D, E, J and K (but keep option 1)
And have this alongside the option to pick one of your parents and use that species’s traits, if they really want the options of the ones I said get rid of.
Custom Lineage is already part of the game so updating it with more options seems like a good route. Along with the UA option so there are “official” means. And then there is always homebrew for those that these options don’t quite fit their build
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
The issue with that is, it doesn't include expansion content. When they release the next "X's Y to Everything" book and it contains the Lobsterfolk race, you won't have any way to make a half-lobster using that template.
And there are one or possibly two sets of 3 choices that vastly outperform every other set of choices. If things like free access to any two spells you want (everyone takes shield) are on the list that choice needs to take two or even three points to pick.
While it would preclude new species introduced I think a limited list would cover most bases.
I forgot to include option (i) in my list of options that should be removed. I think the remaining options would cover most and you can still have the option to choose one parent and use their traits. You can’t have “all the things” to choose from. Otherwise why bother with species at all.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I could see a feat that grants an option or two from a curated list of "humanoid traits" that precludes the weakest options as a viable approach here. But as ChoirofFire said, that would be impossible to future-proof in a way that my suggestion isn't. We already know we're getting at least one new humanoid that won't be in the 2024 PHB (the Ardling, at a future date) and they haven't even nailed down what features it will end up with, and there will be more beyond that as well.
Well I think Lobster species is covered by Ancestral Movement swim speed and amphibious. Maybe I should add (n) Carapace- you gain a +1 to your AC when not wearing armor. This works while carrying a shield.
also (p) Natural Weapon- you have a bite, claw, or tail whip that deals 1d6 Bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage on hit. Choose the damage type when you select this trait.
My goal of the species was to cover mixed ancestry and original species as well, so I would be fine adding more options. Also I know some of the options aren’t balanced. I’m a DM and I enjoy design experiments and discussions, but I’m not a designer.
I think the point is more, we can’t know what would be covered in this lobster species until we actually have it in hand. Otherwise, you’re just kind of deciding what features it has, and they quite conveniently line up with those in the proposed feat. They may have new features that aren’t covered.
I mean, you could have written one early in 5e, but then they release plasmoid or thri-kreen which have things that are completely foreign to early species.
So, if you make a feat like this, you end up restricting options in future species. We can argue about whether or not that restriction is a good idea, but that’s a different conversation.
Whether it's treated as a list of actual feats (1st level feats, physiological feats, whatever), or a list of traits for a more specific rule, it can be extended. (Much like how the game can add fighting styles, or invocations, etc.) Adding new species would be simply a matter of adding new options alongside new lore. Like it is now, just more systemized.
That’s why I moved from a fear and to an improved Custom Lineage offered in Tasha’s. It allows more flexibility and I tried to make sure the abilities weren’t exactly the same as the species I took them from were I could. That way they could represent different aspects of a creature. Honestly I looking at it again I would change Draconic Breath into Elemental blast making it only a cone that comes from your mouth or hands so it could be used as Breath weapon or some kind of Genasi. My design goal isn’t to perfectly replicate features from other species, but to give player the mechanical freedom to feel like they are multi species or a completely new species.
Obviously the lobsterfolk's main defining feature is their total immunity to one spell of their choice. It's drawn from the classic myth of the lobster that we all heard as kids.
Except in the rework, where their lore was changed to have them come from the Astral Plane, and they lost the spell immunity but gained the ability to move 3-dimensionally a number of feet equal to the result of their Intelligence check.
Can't believe y'all don't know about the history of this iconic D&D race I just made up.
It would certainly be possible to create a batch of ancestry feats and have a custom ancestry that amount to 'pick any two', but it would be a significant amount of extra rules that I doubt they want to bother with.