Hmmmm. I don't necessarily mind the mechanics of this, but I don't really appreciate what it means lorewise. This feels like another step the 5e dev team is taking in the direction of considering the fantasy creatures as different skins of a single species rather than a collection of distinct species.
What made Half-Elves and Half-Orcs unique is that they did not necessarily actually have to be a product of one parent of two races, but rather could have parents, grandparents and great-grandparents etc. who were also half-elves and half-orcs. Those blends created a true-breeding race (read as species), that unlike mules, etc. are fertile/viable amongst themselves; whereas most other creatures couldn't actually do that. They may be able to provide 1 generation of a mixed species, but not really ones that were reproductively viable amongst themselves.
I'm not sure how many creatures were initially really able to crossbreed in the first place. I think humans were able to breed with anyone and orcs were able to breed with anyone and polymorphed dragons were, and also manifested fiends. I don't really remember too many other examples from the 'good ol' days' of folk that could breed with other folk.
Given the new rules [redacted] I would argue creatures within the same Creature type could crossbreed, because it's worded here as "Humanoid" parents etc. What is odd about that, though is it means Changelings, who are Fey not humanoid, would not be able to interbreed, and I for one think that's dumb.
I love the openness of picking your halves so I am all for this element.
That said, I do think there should be a way to combine both DNA sources such as if one race has a walking speed of 30 and another 20 then you would be 25ft as an example. One has Darkvision at 60 and the other 120 - you get 90ft. You pick a race trait from each side...I know this most of all could lead to power gaming but power gamers are going to power game so I honestly just ignore them.
I can see the "dominate gene" thing they're trying to do here by saying you have to pick one race as the mechanical side for your half race character, but to have a true mix I'd rather see a way to build from them both myself. Yeah they give you the looks side of being able to mix like a kid would be, but some kids also strongly take after one parent so you could have a PC still who looks like an elf in every sense but genetically they're half elf and half dwarf or something. Aesthetics isn't enough for me to say I'm a true half race PC, but that's me.
Again let me have some way to build a true half race with the penalities to not being a full breed of something; a reduced walking speed, a reduced Darkvision (if the other race has no Darkvision then half the one parents vision - ex: 60ft becomes 30ft for you), and mixed racial features to represent both sides. Maybe you have Relentless Endurance from an orc but you can't have Powerful Build also. If you are of two races let's see that in the PC!
I will agree that you can say you're half A and half B all you want but mechanically you play as A or B which is the same mechanically as picking A or B from the start; the whole point of playing a mixed race PC is to combine elements of both into your PC to create the truest you.
As others have said, thankfully you can ignore the official format and play this way if it's how your DM allows. D&D is becoming more and more customizable as this recent presentation shows and even before now the rulebook itself calls itself a guide line more than rule so if you want to scrap the UA/official content then do it! 🙂 I certainly will...I'm doing it for the floating ASIs also because it makes no sense to me why you can't have one +3 to a stat if you can break up the +2 and do three +1s; it's all about the roll and as long as you don't go over 20 at the start how is any different than rolling a 19 pre-additions and dropping a +1 to get the 20 that way or doing an 18 and adding the +2.
I'm very pro-customization and so again I like some of what was pitched, but I do disagree on this build format. There needs to be a way to really half up features from two races! I know there's a book on DMsGuild that works on how to do this in a more balanced fashion so hopefully Wizards will look at that because I get again what they're trying to do here thematically, but the execution fails to the point I'll do it my own way for best results.
I Have made a half tabaxi and half human that is mostly half ex has human base with cat ears tail claws and some dark vision mixed in there
I'm not a fan but I think it's because I don't see races like Half-Elves or Half-Orcs as "half races". They are a race of people, it stems from the mixing of blood but they are no less a race than Elves and Orcs.
Additionally, I don't see races as equal in the narrative sense in D&D settings. Humans are the baseline for settings, D&D settings are all human-centric, I can't think of any that are not. Fantasy races are the exotic, the unusual outliers and they aren't races by definition of the word, they are entirely different species. Meaning if you compare a Dwarf to an Elf it's like comparing a Chicken to a Shark. You can't say they are both fish or birds, you can't say they are both mammals.. you have to go pretty high on the definition scale before you find a word that quantifies them both, perhaps animal.
When a Half-Orc walks into a tavern anywhere in the civilized world, most of the people in that tavern are seeing a half-orc for the first time in their lives, he is a bloody alien as far as they are concerned.
100% agreed. It-s always irritated me that I see few people actually PLAY humans, rather than say that they do or are overpowered. Fantasy in any book of fiction of note or value is human centric where other races are exotic and even a bit alien. D&D has become far more a place of cosmopolitan science fiction when it comes to races, along the lines of Star Wars, then it is Fantasy. And I also agree that Half-Elves and Half Orcs are as much a race to themselves as Tieflings or the Aasimar.
When a Half-Orc walks into a tavern anywhere in the civilized world, most of the people in that tavern are seeing a half-orc for the first time in their lives, he is a bloody alien as far as they are concerned.
FYI - This hasn't been true of any of the published settings since about 1e, and not even really then. For example, there's mentions of half-orcs being found in Forgotten Realms cities & towns all the way back in the 80's. By 3e, over 20 years ago, half-orcs were pretty common. Nowhere in any of the official settings I have ever read (although admittedly, I haven't read much Greyhawk) has it claimed that half-orcs were so rare that people in all civilized lands might only ever see one in their entire lives. If you want your settings to be that way, sure, go for it. But that hasn't been the case in official D&D settings.
When a Half-Orc walks into a tavern anywhere in the civilized world
Which world is that, exactly?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yeah if half orcs and half elves are a big part of dnd for you, I'd just lean on backwards compatibility and just use the original PHB races for them. They will work, you just need to choose whether your ASI's come from the og race or the new backgrounds.
Fantasy in any book of fiction of note or value is human centric
I mean, I could list dozens of counterexamples, but the fact that the ur-text of high fantasy is not human-centric but halfling-centric should be enough
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Meaning if you compare a Dwarf to an Elf it's like comparing a Chicken to a Shark. You can't say they are both fish or birds, you can't say they are both mammals.. you have to go pretty high on the definition scale before you find a word that quantifies them both, perhaps animal.
If it has hair, live births it’s young and produces milk it’s a mammal. Boobs = milk production. Therefore Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Orcs, Gnomes, Hin (Halflings), Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Ogres…. All mammals.
When a Half-Orc walks into a tavern anywhere in the civilized world, most of the people in that tavern are seeing a half-orc for the first time in their lives, he is a bloody alien as far as they are concerned.
On my personal semi-ho version of Mystara, Half-Elves, and Half-Orcs (and Half-Goblinoids, Half-Gnomes, and Half-Dwarves, and most Half-Ogres) are all pretty commonplace and generally seen as “Human” by the population at large. Of course, the only universal breeders are Humans and Hin, so that’s part of it.
If you want to use older versions of races with existing ASI bonuses, it is still possible to do so. Essentially, you would choose between the older race's ASI's or your background's ASI's.
ABILITY SCORE INCREASES FROM ELSEWHERE
Since 2014, characters have received ability score increases from several sources, either from a Race that has the Ability Score Increase trait or from the ability score rules in Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything, Monsters of the Multiverse, and other books. If you make a character using one of those older sources and get ability score increases from it, the character doesn’t also get ability score increases from Background, unless you forgo the older ability score increases to gain the increases from the Background rules here.
I actually hope this makes it into the official release. I enjoyed the stat flexibility from Half-Elf for some unorthodox (and overall suboptimal) multiclass combos. That +1 is enough to get a 13 for a multiclass requirement while still having 2 16's and a 14.
100% agreed. It-s always irritated me that I see few people actually PLAY humans, rather than say that they do or are overpowered. Fantasy in any book of fiction of note or value is human centric where other races are exotic and even a bit alien. D&D has become far more a place of cosmopolitan science fiction when it comes to races, along the lines of Star Wars, then it is Fantasy. And I also agree that Half-Elves and Half Orcs are as much a race to themselves as Tieflings or the Aasimar.
This is an old trend. I haven't played a human character in D&D in at least 20 years.
I play a human every day of my life. Why would I want to do so when I play pretend?
That said, I'm just waiting to see what happens when the half-warforged show up.
Just started reading through the playtest doc and see that half-elves and half-orcs as we knew them seem to be gone, there is no-longer a specific racial entry for either. Instead you can now decide that your parents were any humanoid combo, and there is no benefit to this beyond choosing which parent's racial options you get, and then you can just "mix and match" aesthetics from both races to decide how you look.
So a "Half'Elf" is not an elf combined with any other humanoid race. You can choose to be half-elf and half-halfling. If you choose that you decide which parent grants you racial benefits. So you can say you are half-elf and half-halfling, and decide you get the benefits of being an elf, and... what? Your size and speed are determined by the parent you chose for your benefits? What's the point?
"I know I look like a goblin, but I'm actually half-orc and half-gnome."
This is just stupid.
CHILDREN OF DIFFERENT HUMANOID KINDS Thanks to the magical workings of the multiverse, Humanoids of different kinds sometimes have children together. For example, folk who have a human parent and an orc or an elf parent are particularly common. Many other combinations are possible. If you’d like to play the child of such a wondrous pairing, choose two Race options that are Humanoid to represent your parents. Then determine which of those Race options provides your game traits: Size, Speed, and special traits. You can then mix and match visual characteristics—color, ear shape, and the like—of the two options. For example, if your character has a halfling and a gnome parent, you might choose Halfling for your game traits and then decide that your character has the pointed ears that are characteristic of a gnome. Finally, determine the average of the two options’ Life Span traits to figure out how long your character might live. For example, a child of a halfling and a gnome has an average life span of 288 years.
While we do lose those two I think we get a lot more. We can have half ANYTHING. So You can have a half elf that isn't just half human, half elf, but a half orc half elf. It also means you can have a mix of any 2 species and you have clear rules on how to do it. While being able to take some traits from one and some from another, I feel they didn't do that due to mechanics. Trying to balance every race so players can pick Half X and Half Y and take the best trait of each or even find some weird synergy between two aspects that unbalance things more.
The point this 1DnD made to me was that WotC is trying to make it so people can play what they want without being steered into picking an "optimal" race to fit a class (which is why weapon and armor proficiencies are gone from races). While many DnD players don't feel that pressure new players do. When I started DnD (4e) I played a monk and I looked for a race that had the optimum stats and abilities that work well with a monk.
Not to mention that, well, frankly what are we gaining by REMOVING them as a distinct race in favor of a generic option (one that needs serious curtailing as there's a bunch of choices, like tortle/aarakocra, that would be either absurd or just... no... Would Warforged count? I believe they count as a humanoid race so RAW you could have a warforged parent)?
"I am my father's son! He was the proudest of and most stalwart of all Earth Genasi, as for my mother; She was the finest Warforged in all the lands!"
That would be... something. I assume tho, to be more serious, that will not allow this for Warforged, still hilarious to think about.
Not to mention that, well, frankly what are we gaining by REMOVING them as a distinct race in favor of a generic option (one that needs serious curtailing as there's a bunch of choices, like tortle/aarakocra, that would be either absurd or just... no... Would Warforged count? I believe they count as a humanoid race so RAW you could have a warforged parent)?
"I am my father's son! He was the proudest of and most stalwart of all Earth Genasi, as for my mother; She was the finest Warforged in all the lands!"
That would be... something. I assume tho, to be more serious, that will not allow this for Warforged, still hilarious to think about.
As written, they do, and I see no reason not to.
Since there are literally zero mechanical advantages, the only reason some will be playing it will be:
They're being silly. Which is fine. D&D is not Serious Business. If it doesn't fit the tone of your table, that's a matter for discussion between the players and the DM. Not for the rules.
It makes perfect sense in the context of the particular world the DM has set up, because of setting-specific factors.
The concept is strong. Honestly, Warforged is perhaps the easiest one of these to justify. I can give you a Warforged/anything character concept for the low, low price of six million gp.
That would just make races more formulaic. You would always have to have one major and one minor feature, basically, for every race. And they wouldn't be able to synergize with one another, or rather, the degree of synergy would needs be much smaller -- they couldn't rely on one another to work, is what I mean. You could have the ability to talk to sea creatures, but not the ability to swim. Lol.
That would just make races more formulaic. You would always have to have one major and one minor feature, basically, for every race. And they wouldn't be able to synergize with one another, or rather, the degree of synergy would needs be much smaller -- they couldn't rely on one another to work, is what I mean. You could have the ability to talk to sea creatures, but not the ability to swim. Lol.
That would be a lot like the custom background options, so maybe not far from a possibility. The possibility of something like being able to talk to sea creatures but not swim could be seen as a perfect example of living in two worlds but being an outcast in each. Instead of picking a major+minor racial feature from both races, maybe something like pick half of the racial special abilities of each race could be simple enough? I don't think I would always like this, though. I might suggest giving any half- character the option to pick the racial special abilities for humans, which are quite generic and emphasize the hopefulness and versality a half- character (and human character) can represent.
I really don't understand why they can't just allow you to pick one feature from each race and gain both racial languages. I'd love this. Sure, there would be a couple extra strong min/max options but overall most options would just allow you to make a character that feels like they belong to both races and not just be a single race in disguise.
I really don't understand why they can't just allow you to pick one feature from each race and gain both racial languages. I'd love this. Sure, there would be a couple extra strong min/max options but overall most options would just allow you to make a character that feels like they belong to both races and not just be a single race in disguise.
Why does "belonging to both races" have to be a mechanically enforced thing?
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
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Given the new rules [redacted] I would argue creatures within the same Creature type could crossbreed, because it's worded here as "Humanoid" parents etc. What is odd about that, though is it means Changelings, who are Fey not humanoid, would not be able to interbreed, and I for one think that's dumb.
I Have made a half tabaxi and half human that is mostly half ex has human base with cat ears tail claws and some dark vision mixed in there
100% agreed. It-s always irritated me that I see few people actually PLAY humans, rather than say that they do or are overpowered. Fantasy in any book of fiction of note or value is human centric where other races are exotic and even a bit alien. D&D has become far more a place of cosmopolitan science fiction when it comes to races, along the lines of Star Wars, then it is Fantasy. And I also agree that Half-Elves and Half Orcs are as much a race to themselves as Tieflings or the Aasimar.
FYI - This hasn't been true of any of the published settings since about 1e, and not even really then. For example, there's mentions of half-orcs being found in Forgotten Realms cities & towns all the way back in the 80's. By 3e, over 20 years ago, half-orcs were pretty common. Nowhere in any of the official settings I have ever read (although admittedly, I haven't read much Greyhawk) has it claimed that half-orcs were so rare that people in all civilized lands might only ever see one in their entire lives. If you want your settings to be that way, sure, go for it. But that hasn't been the case in official D&D settings.
Which world is that, exactly?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yeah if half orcs and half elves are a big part of dnd for you, I'd just lean on backwards compatibility and just use the original PHB races for them. They will work, you just need to choose whether your ASI's come from the og race or the new backgrounds.
I mean, I could list dozens of counterexamples, but the fact that the ur-text of high fantasy is not human-centric but halfling-centric should be enough
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If it has hair, live births it’s young and produces milk it’s a mammal. Boobs = milk production. Therefore Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Orcs, Gnomes, Hin (Halflings), Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Ogres…. All mammals.
On my personal semi-ho version of Mystara, Half-Elves, and Half-Orcs (and Half-Goblinoids, Half-Gnomes, and Half-Dwarves, and most Half-Ogres) are all pretty commonplace and generally seen as “Human” by the population at large. Of course, the only universal breeders are Humans and Hin, so that’s part of it.
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I actually hope this makes it into the official release. I enjoyed the stat flexibility from Half-Elf for some unorthodox (and overall suboptimal) multiclass combos. That +1 is enough to get a 13 for a multiclass requirement while still having 2 16's and a 14.
I called them out on it in the survey. Here’s hoping they listen
This is an old trend. I haven't played a human character in D&D in at least 20 years.
I play a human every day of my life. Why would I want to do so when I play pretend?
That said, I'm just waiting to see what happens when the half-warforged show up.
While we do lose those two I think we get a lot more.
We can have half ANYTHING.
So You can have a half elf that isn't just half human, half elf, but a half orc half elf.
It also means you can have a mix of any 2 species and you have clear rules on how to do it.
While being able to take some traits from one and some from another, I feel they didn't do that due to mechanics. Trying to balance every race so players can pick Half X and Half Y and take the best trait of each or even find some weird synergy between two aspects that unbalance things more.
The point this 1DnD made to me was that WotC is trying to make it so people can play what they want without being steered into picking an "optimal" race to fit a class (which is why weapon and armor proficiencies are gone from races). While many DnD players don't feel that pressure new players do. When I started DnD (4e) I played a monk and I looked for a race that had the optimum stats and abilities that work well with a monk.
"I am my father's son! He was the proudest of and most stalwart of all Earth Genasi, as for my mother; She was the finest Warforged in all the lands!"
That would be... something. I assume tho, to be more serious, that will not allow this for Warforged, still hilarious to think about.
As written, they do, and I see no reason not to.
Since there are literally zero mechanical advantages, the only reason some will be playing it will be:
I love the idea of a half-gnome that is orc/gnome. I think this will be my next character.
I do think there should be some mechanical benefit, but not one that will break the character.
Like maybe at least one feature of each race has a tag that tells you if it's compatible for mixing together in a hybrid character? I don't know.
That would just make races more formulaic. You would always have to have one major and one minor feature, basically, for every race. And they wouldn't be able to synergize with one another, or rather, the degree of synergy would needs be much smaller -- they couldn't rely on one another to work, is what I mean. You could have the ability to talk to sea creatures, but not the ability to swim. Lol.
That would be a lot like the custom background options, so maybe not far from a possibility. The possibility of something like being able to talk to sea creatures but not swim could be seen as a perfect example of living in two worlds but being an outcast in each. Instead of picking a major+minor racial feature from both races, maybe something like pick half of the racial special abilities of each race could be simple enough? I don't think I would always like this, though. I might suggest giving any half- character the option to pick the racial special abilities for humans, which are quite generic and emphasize the hopefulness and versality a half- character (and human character) can represent.
I really don't understand why they can't just allow you to pick one feature from each race and gain both racial languages. I'd love this. Sure, there would be a couple extra strong min/max options but overall most options would just allow you to make a character that feels like they belong to both races and not just be a single race in disguise.
Why does "belonging to both races" have to be a mechanically enforced thing?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!