Crits are back for all of those. Maybe they should design better monsters. The legendary save was a clumsy way to deal with save or else spells ending a boss fight. Having a similar mechanic for absurd damage would be clumsy but still work. Hopefully they can come up with a non clumsy method for both of these.
I mean... are they realistic? Fighter dashing 10 turns in a row while wearing plate armour can move 600 foot or almost 183 meters, where 10 turns is a minute... Usain Bolt would love those speeds.
Sleep is just a knock out blow, paralyze I don't want to get into. But there is an untapped method of getting some effects that is still sort of magical without being spellcasting, and that's poisons/alchemy. I think a rogue or fighter subclass that uses poisons like that could be interesting.
Usain Bolt did 100m in 9,58 seconds. His walking speed in DnD would be 100m/9,58sec=2Xm/6sec, X=(100m*6sec)/(9,58sec*2)=31,32m=102,74ft. A plate-wearing knight moving over three times slower is alright, I'd say))
Mmm, maybe, the idea still seems crazy to me that a full plated adventurer with weapons, gear, etc is hitting those types of speeds but ah well.
Yeah, but also every fighter is not Usain Bolt, or even a third as fast as him when in plate armor.
They should as fast as Usain Bolt and more by level 5.
Someone's agility should be reflected by their dex score, not their level. But anyways, speed in D&D is the same at lower levels as it is for higher ones. The only impacting factor that is likely to change is your constitution score, and then I guess it should be reflected off that instead of your level.
This conversation has veered wildly off track. First off, comparing the average fighter to Usain Bolt, even if you calculate for plate armor and stuff, is not a very good comparison. But on a more related note, martials like fighters and barbarians aren't that realistic, for example, they can literally be hit by arrows or slashed with swords dozens of times before going unconscious, (not even dying) but I guess a lot of stuff in D&D really isn't realistic, but yeah fighters and barbarians are still included in that, just to a slightly lesser extent.
Also, barbarians and fighters are way, way, more buff than anyone could possibly be in real life. Especially when compared to the time period D&D is mostly replicating. But again, yeah, D&D is not very realistic anyways, and martials aren't exceptions to that rule.
Hit points are not meat points.
"Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck."
"Dungeon Masters describe hit point loss in different ways. When your current hit point total is half or more of your hit point maximum, you typically show no signs of injury. When you drop below half your hit point maximum, you show signs of wear, such as cuts and bruises. An attack that reduces you to 0 hit points strikes you directly, leaving a bleeding injury or other trauma, or it simply knocks you unconscious."
Wow, you just taught me something new. But anyways, D&D is still not very realistic: the fact that you can engage in 8 random fight every day as a bunch of random adventures, and come out uninjured, is also not very realistic. And if you do come out injured, the fact that it doesn't slow you down is also unrealistic.
Oh, so is the fact that PC's fall unconscious while NPC's die. But anyways, D&D is very unrealistic, and again, even if hit points isn't one ways it is unrealistic, many other things are. And again, fighters and barbarians and other martials, especially the ones that channel godly powers, aren't realistic either.
While HP can reflect a lot of things, there isn't much around that it lets a fighter stand in the elemental plane of fire and take no noticeable damage for multiple rounds, fall 300 feet and hop right back up on repeat, stand in the middle of a breath weapon that can melt stone like its nothing etc. People can try and narrate it away but for large swaths of the game it just does not work. They are superhuman from HP. And then we look at everything else, they can swing a dagger and hurt a 50 ton scaled beast whether they are in a position to stab a vulnerable spot or not etc. So yeah they are not realistic, its time for the game to just flat out accept that and lean into it, I know 4e did and while the game was not loved having competent martials was not one of the complaints.
Because D&D would need options for deadly combat, like the ones presented at DMG. They should polish more the injuries and massive damage options/tables with much better written rules for applying them. I still am thinking how to add them to my table, but is not easy in the way are written, but maybe when dropping HP to 0 or failing a death roll by 5 or more. We need them for crits.
Also the 5E long rest was already too easy, and now seems that also it grants you all your hit dice back… I use the system at DMG, with long rest not recovering HP, and half hit dice, so you have to recover HP spending hit dice. I addition I use the rule from DMG for healing having to use healing kits to roll hit dice, if not is like you roll a 1.
But, to be honest, Divine Smite crits are out of place. Its main problem is the fact that is used AFTER you know have hit, so you use your max level slot if you already knows your have crit, so the foe can be prepared.
Also some effects that upcast can be excessive.
For now, I think I'll make that Legendary Resistance can also be used to avoid an attack. This does not solve the issue about some supposed bosses like young dragons or Gorthok the Thunder Boar which are easily defeated with those massive damages.
For now, I think I'll make that Legendary Resistance can also be used to avoid an attack. This does not solve the issue about some supposed bosses like young dragons or Gorthok the Thunder Boar which are easily defeated with those massive damages.
They're also difficult to run because they're either unintuitive or badly designed.
A young white dragon is CR 6, but only because the tactics assume it never uses its breath weapon. Which is insane, considering one is supposed to be the final boss of Dragon of Icespire Peak. And Gorthok isn't actually CR 6. It's CR 5, because that's what its traits and actions balance out to. Both make for okay mini-bosses, and they aren't really meant to be viewed as more than that.
3. Extra Attacks (and a lot of them in the Fighter's case)
4. Better armor proficiencies
5. Ability to use Opportunity Attacks for something they're good at (weapons)
6. Slightly better save-main stat overlap: A martial's main stats are Str/Dex & Con, a caster's mains are Wis/Int/Cha. 2 of the martial stats are "good" saves (Dex & Con), while only 1 caster stat is a "good" save (Wis).
7. Lack of worry about Magic Resistance.
Let the Casters Crit!
1. No? The only thing martials have going for them in "staying power" is your point 2 and 4, higher HP and AC. Because, for the most part, martials have to be up close to be effective. Up close means they are susceptible to both melee, ranged and magic. They're also more vulnerable to area based effects such as the Heated Body of a Remorhaz or the wail of a banshee. Casters have staying power in the sense they have more options for battlefield control that can be used at a distance where they are far safer on average. Whether that is debuffing the enemy, buffing themselves (including their HP and AC) and the party, or healing/curing themselves and the party.
2. See #1.
3. Yeah, because singular attacks cannot keep up with spells. This is especially true when multiple enemies are involved. [Insert Fireball Joke]
4. See #1.
5. Casters have WAY more options for battlefield control that goes beyond the "utility" of a single weapon attack against a creature that leaves your threat area.
6. Which can be readily offset by simple spells such as bless or guidance.
7. How far can a martial get without some way of getting around resistance/immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from non-magical sources? Casters aren't worried about it as soon as they get access to spellcasting. There are FAR more monsters in the MM that have resistance/immunity to weapon damage from non-magical sources then there are monsters with resistance/immune to ALL types of magic damage.
For now, I think I'll make that Legendary Resistance can also be used to avoid an attack. This does not solve the issue about some supposed bosses like young dragons or Gorthok the Thunder Boar which are easily defeated with those massive damages.
They're also difficult to run because they're either unintuitive or badly designed.
A young white dragon is CR 6, but only because the tactics assume it never uses its breath weapon. Which is insane, considering one is supposed to be the final boss of Dragon of Icespire Peak. And Gorthok isn't actually CR 6. It's CR 5, because that's what its traits and actions balance out to. Both make for okay mini-bosses, and they aren't really meant to be viewed as more than that.
Well have to try now, with the new direction about applying the added damages only once per round. Limiting Divine Smite and others like Hex to once per round i.e. could do the trick for them to last more than 2 rounds.
About breath, dispersing the party it only hits one character, reducing greatly its effectiveness. Even having 2 melee characters, they can place in opposite dragon sides, so it should move (receiving an opportunity attack) to target both from aligned position, which can even be avoided with Sentinel feat.
I really don't see what's wrong with letting at least the cantrips crit. Maybe make an exception for EB so we don't get the freaking gatling gun being even more OP, but otherwise, I don't see what's so wrong with letting something like firebolt crit or something.
I have to ask, the crits are officially returning to the 5E way? I mean, if the rule writers have said it at least. I am going to start a new game and want to include this OD&D material, so I need to know if I'd had to apply the UA crit or not.
I have to ask, the crits are officially returning to the 5E way? I mean, if the rule writers have said it at least. I am going to start a new game and want to include this OD&D material, so I need to know if I'd had to apply the UA crit or not.
Thanks.
Unless 1D&D changes what the rules say on this, then crits are remaining basically the same as they did in 5e. However, Wizards may have changed certain abilities so that they interact with the rule differently, and I would encourage you to check because I could definitely be wrong.
I really don't see what's wrong with letting at least the cantrips crit. Maybe make an exception for EB so we don't get the freaking gatling gun being even more OP, but otherwise, I don't see what's so wrong with letting something like firebolt crit or something.
Why would you exclude EB? Some of us love it the way it is, don't be that person
I really don't see what's wrong with letting at least the cantrips crit. Maybe make an exception for EB so we don't get the freaking gatling gun being even more OP, but otherwise, I don't see what's so wrong with letting something like firebolt crit or something.
Why would you exclude EB? Some of us love it the way it is, don't be that person
It's already getting a +CHA bonus with an invocation and can fire off multiple shots per cast. I think it's getting enough power without being able to crit on top of it. Nevermind if you include what you can do with quicken metamagic and Hex. It will be fine.
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But it’s 1d10+CHA per bolt. So unless you roll two nat 20’s you are only critting on the 1d10. At 17 firebolt is doing 4d10, 8d10 on a crit. EB is still 2d10+CHA on a crit unless you are rolling very very well.
I love how every martial advocate is forgetting - except shared option, such as inspirationn, being invisible (high cost) or gift (lesser cost usually) - caster can't have advantages on attacks - martial got pincer attack and in built self sufficient options
the fact so u only need to get lucky once on a spell, and 4 times on attacks is way avoiding the advantages options which totally balance that.
Hey the warrior is doing a 5th level slot of dammage every round. Seems legit.
But it’s 1d10+CHA per bolt. So unless you roll two nat 20’s you are only critting on the 1d10. At 17 firebolt is doing 4d10, 8d10 on a crit. EB is still 2d10+CHA on a crit unless you are rolling very very well.
You're also much more likely to crit.
At L5, Firebolt crits once every 20 rounds, doing 4d10. In other words, over 20 rounds, Firebolt does 2d10 additional damage due to critting, 1d10 per 10 rounds.
EB rolls twice as often, meaning it crits twice as often, so once every 10 rounds it doubles the damage of one ray due to critting, so it does 1d10 per 10 rounds.
The damage due to critting is exactly the same. EB critting does one fifth the damage at L20, but crits 5 times more often and balances out. There are only two differences - one, EB is less likely to lead to damage overflow and therefore wasting crits, and EB (with that invocation) without crits still does more average damage than Firebolt with crits.
Please break it down for me, what exactly is the complaint about EB here?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I have No complaints about EB. I think it is fine critting just like any other cantrip. And I’m fine it does more damage due to modifier. And since it looks like it will only scale with warlock level I like it even more.
The reason its silly to restrict crits in general(and also why the barbairans brutal crit sucks) is crits just don't happen enough to swing balance at all. Paladin some argument can be made but I suspect it kind of washes out as paladins end up saving smites for things like crits and don't use them in the tons of situations it would be more valuable. But lets say firebolt at level 17 where odds are no wizard will be casting cantrips for damage as they have over 9000 leveled spells to use, but at that point sort of peak crit damage for spells a crit adds 1 DPR.
The thing is crits are fun. so rules to restrict this do nothing to help with balance but do something to hamper fun. I'm thinking for a game rules that hamper fun but don't fix a balance issue are a bad choice.
Don't forget that you can kit out EB with a bunch of other abilities as well. The ability to toy with an enemy's movement is not to be underestimated especially with proper set-up. FB doesn't get that. FB's also of the most commonly resisted element while EB is not. And the Eldritch Gatling is far, far, more effective than trying the same thing with firebolt.
Simply put, EB's already a really, really, effective cantrip. The best in the game for combat and arguably the best overall with the only one I can think of coming close for combat being Mind Sliver (and that's not because of damage).
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Crits are back for all of those. Maybe they should design better monsters. The legendary save was a clumsy way to deal with save or else spells ending a boss fight. Having a similar mechanic for absurd damage would be clumsy but still work. Hopefully they can come up with a non clumsy method for both of these.
Because D&D would need options for deadly combat, like the ones presented at DMG. They should polish more the injuries and massive damage options/tables with much better written rules for applying them. I still am thinking how to add them to my table, but is not easy in the way are written, but maybe when dropping HP to 0 or failing a death roll by 5 or more. We need them for crits.
Also the 5E long rest was already too easy, and now seems that also it grants you all your hit dice back… I use the system at DMG, with long rest not recovering HP, and half hit dice, so you have to recover HP spending hit dice. I addition I use the rule from DMG for healing having to use healing kits to roll hit dice, if not is like you roll a 1.
But, to be honest, Divine Smite crits are out of place. Its main problem is the fact that is used AFTER you know have hit, so you use your max level slot if you already knows your have crit, so the foe can be prepared.
Also some effects that upcast can be excessive.
For now, I think I'll make that Legendary Resistance can also be used to avoid an attack. This does not solve the issue about some supposed bosses like young dragons or Gorthok the Thunder Boar which are easily defeated with those massive damages.
They're also difficult to run because they're either unintuitive or badly designed.
A young white dragon is CR 6, but only because the tactics assume it never uses its breath weapon. Which is insane, considering one is supposed to be the final boss of Dragon of Icespire Peak. And Gorthok isn't actually CR 6. It's CR 5, because that's what its traits and actions balance out to. Both make for okay mini-bosses, and they aren't really meant to be viewed as more than that.
1. No? The only thing martials have going for them in "staying power" is your point 2 and 4, higher HP and AC. Because, for the most part, martials have to be up close to be effective. Up close means they are susceptible to both melee, ranged and magic. They're also more vulnerable to area based effects such as the Heated Body of a Remorhaz or the wail of a banshee. Casters have staying power in the sense they have more options for battlefield control that can be used at a distance where they are far safer on average. Whether that is debuffing the enemy, buffing themselves (including their HP and AC) and the party, or healing/curing themselves and the party.
2. See #1.
3. Yeah, because singular attacks cannot keep up with spells. This is especially true when multiple enemies are involved. [Insert Fireball Joke]
4. See #1.
5. Casters have WAY more options for battlefield control that goes beyond the "utility" of a single weapon attack against a creature that leaves your threat area.
6. Which can be readily offset by simple spells such as bless or guidance.
7. How far can a martial get without some way of getting around resistance/immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from non-magical sources? Casters aren't worried about it as soon as they get access to spellcasting. There are FAR more monsters in the MM that have resistance/immunity to weapon damage from non-magical sources then there are monsters with resistance/immune to ALL types of magic damage.
Well have to try now, with the new direction about applying the added damages only once per round. Limiting Divine Smite and others like Hex to once per round i.e. could do the trick for them to last more than 2 rounds.
About breath, dispersing the party it only hits one character, reducing greatly its effectiveness. Even having 2 melee characters, they can place in opposite dragon sides, so it should move (receiving an opportunity attack) to target both from aligned position, which can even be avoided with Sentinel feat.
I really don't see what's wrong with letting at least the cantrips crit. Maybe make an exception for EB so we don't get the freaking gatling gun being even more OP, but otherwise, I don't see what's so wrong with letting something like firebolt crit or something.
I have to ask, the crits are officially returning to the 5E way? I mean, if the rule writers have said it at least. I am going to start a new game and want to include this OD&D material, so I need to know if I'd had to apply the UA crit or not.
Thanks.
Unless 1D&D changes what the rules say on this, then crits are remaining basically the same as they did in 5e. However, Wizards may have changed certain abilities so that they interact with the rule differently, and I would encourage you to check because I could definitely be wrong.
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HERE.Why would you exclude EB? Some of us love it the way it is, don't be that person
It's already getting a +CHA bonus with an invocation and can fire off multiple shots per cast. I think it's getting enough power without being able to crit on top of it. Nevermind if you include what you can do with quicken metamagic and Hex. It will be fine.
Nup, no dice
eldritch blast crits just like every other spell
You don’t get to say Firebolt with 2d10 at 5th level gets to crit and eldritch blast at 5th level with 1d10+cha does not
To gain the extra cha on EB the warlock also has to use a class ability, locking that option away
wizard gets much more versatility and spell slots, there is balance in the two casters and if spells crit then EB crits.
Eldritch Blast does 2d10 L5, not 1d10.
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But it’s 1d10+CHA per bolt. So unless you roll two nat 20’s you are only critting on the 1d10. At 17 firebolt is doing 4d10, 8d10 on a crit. EB is still 2d10+CHA on a crit unless you are rolling very very well.
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Which is exactly the same output as a fighter or ranger at L5 with a heavy crossbow and crossbow expert, bonus and all.
there is no argument for firebolt to have crits and EB to not have crits
I love how every martial advocate is forgetting
- except shared option, such as inspirationn, being invisible (high cost) or gift (lesser cost usually)
- caster can't have advantages on attacks
- martial got pincer attack and in built self sufficient options
the fact so u only need to get lucky once on a spell, and 4 times on attacks is way avoiding the advantages options which totally balance that.
Hey the warrior is doing a 5th level slot of dammage every round. Seems legit.
You're also much more likely to crit.
At L5, Firebolt crits once every 20 rounds, doing 4d10. In other words, over 20 rounds, Firebolt does 2d10 additional damage due to critting, 1d10 per 10 rounds.
EB rolls twice as often, meaning it crits twice as often, so once every 10 rounds it doubles the damage of one ray due to critting, so it does 1d10 per 10 rounds.
The damage due to critting is exactly the same. EB critting does one fifth the damage at L20, but crits 5 times more often and balances out. There are only two differences - one, EB is less likely to lead to damage overflow and therefore wasting crits, and EB (with that invocation) without crits still does more average damage than Firebolt with crits.
Please break it down for me, what exactly is the complaint about EB here?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I have No complaints about EB. I think it is fine critting just like any other cantrip. And I’m fine it does more damage due to modifier. And since it looks like it will only scale with warlock level I like it even more.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
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The reason its silly to restrict crits in general(and also why the barbairans brutal crit sucks) is crits just don't happen enough to swing balance at all. Paladin some argument can be made but I suspect it kind of washes out as paladins end up saving smites for things like crits and don't use them in the tons of situations it would be more valuable. But lets say firebolt at level 17 where odds are no wizard will be casting cantrips for damage as they have over 9000 leveled spells to use, but at that point sort of peak crit damage for spells a crit adds 1 DPR.
The thing is crits are fun. so rules to restrict this do nothing to help with balance but do something to hamper fun. I'm thinking for a game rules that hamper fun but don't fix a balance issue are a bad choice.
Don't forget that you can kit out EB with a bunch of other abilities as well. The ability to toy with an enemy's movement is not to be underestimated especially with proper set-up. FB doesn't get that. FB's also of the most commonly resisted element while EB is not. And the Eldritch Gatling is far, far, more effective than trying the same thing with firebolt.
Simply put, EB's already a really, really, effective cantrip. The best in the game for combat and arguably the best overall with the only one I can think of coming close for combat being Mind Sliver (and that's not because of damage).