The current form of the Alert feat just looks hyper specialized for rogue, since rogues being dex-based almost always were high up the initiate chain and could get in situations in the first round where they had neither advantage or an ally within 5 feet of the target, making them lose their main ability just for rolling well. So the whole swap your initiative to some martial means they can now ensure that they are more likely to be striking a target within 5 foot of an ally. But if you're not a rogue why would you want the current form of alert? literally you'd only want it to be ensure a rogue goes after you... so it's hyper specialized for rogue and I am not certain I like that. I don't mind a feat that is better for rogue but still good for other classes, but this seems like it's excellent for rogue and not so good for other classes.
The current form of the Alert feat just looks hyper specialized for rogue, since rogues being dex-based almost always were high up the initiate chain and could get in situations in the first round where they had neither advantage or an ally within 5 feet of the target, making them lose their main ability just for rolling well. So the whole swap your initiative to some martial means they can now ensure that they are more likely to be striking a target within 5 foot of an ally. But if you're not a rogue why would you want the current form of alert? literally you'd only want it to be ensure a rogue goes after you... so it's hyper specialized for rogue and I am not certain I like that. I don't mind a feat that is better for rogue but still good for other classes, but this seems like it's excellent for rogue and not so good for other classes.
The PHB version of alert is prime for anyone who has an active feature they need online to function. Rage, bladesong, wild shapes, or rune knights spring to mind. It's also just a solid pick for anyone due to how initiative works. Going before the enemies is like getting a free action surge most of the time.
But the method to ensure that is by ganking down another player in the initiative order, so it's an extremely greedy feat that'll definitely cause friction at that table as one player will want to swap and the other won't. Most classes want to go first, with the exception of rogue who often went first but usually didn't want to go first. Also the lack of surprise immunity means you can now be surprised so no chance to get that wild shape or rage off early if you wanted to spec that way.
This Alert feat is NOT the Alert feat we are all used to in 5e. It is entirely a new feat. In the 3.5 days this considered two separate feats, alertness and improved initiative.
I like that this makes your PB come into play for your initiative roll. However, this should already be part of the game. But the scaling is more balanced compared to the 5e version of a flat +5.
The swap feature is meh. Unless you REALLY need someone in your party to go before you, but also before the enemies, I see this as nonsensical as you can just hold your action.
All in all this feat gives you a feature that should already be a game mechanic and a new mechanic that is almost already in the game. So this is a big let down.
Holding your action limits you extremely. It uses up your reaction and all you get is your action from the hold. No bonus, no movement (unless you are holding a dash action). This allows a lot more tactical options. Maybe you want the wizard to go first and drop a fireball before they can unclump. Or get the tankiest in front because you got attacked from behind. I like this option a lot personally but to each their own.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I would actually say that the new alert feat is specialized for commander types: roll high, then look around the table for who it would be really beneficial to have go first.
But the method to ensure that is by ganking down another player in the initiative order, so it's an extremely greedy feat that'll definitely cause friction at that table as one player will want to swap and the other won't. Most classes want to go first, with the exception of rogue who often went first but usually didn't want to go first. Also the lack of surprise immunity means you can now be surprised so no chance to get that wild shape or rage off early if you wanted to spec that way.
I guess that could happen, but that is a Player maturity problem and not a game mechanic problem. People that feel entitled to the benefits of another player's abilities are not the type of people I play with.
But the method to ensure that is by ganking down another player in the initiative order, so it's an extremely greedy feat that'll definitely cause friction at that table as one player will want to swap and the other won't.
It only applies to a willing target, so if your target doesn't want to swap... no swap happens. That's why it's more a feat for leaders: very few people will object to being swapped to a higher initiative.
The current form of the Alert feat just looks hyper specialized for rogue, since rogues being dex-based almost always were high up the initiate chain and could get in situations in the first round where they had neither advantage or an ally within 5 feet of the target, making them lose their main ability just for rolling well. So the whole swap your initiative to some martial means they can now ensure that they are more likely to be striking a target within 5 foot of an ally. But if you're not a rogue why would you want the current form of alert? literally you'd only want it to be ensure a rogue goes after you... so it's hyper specialized for rogue and I am not certain I like that. I don't mind a feat that is better for rogue but still good for other classes, but this seems like it's excellent for rogue and not so good for other classes.
a few sub-classes come to mind that would desire to go first, including the rogue assassin or a twilight cleric (if you want a sneaky b*stard that is the most lethal killer around go a Gloom Stalker Assassin with Crossbow Expert and a Heavy Crossbow. I'm looking at you The Wolf, you know who you are...).
question for all: if a roll of a natural 1 is an automatic failure, and reading that this is for all d20 rolls (checks, saves, whatever's), then how would you rule an absolute failure to gain initiative? can the person with the new alert feat swap with an individual that has rolled a 1 to give the individual that flubbed the roll a higher turn order
But the method to ensure that is by ganking down another player in the initiative order, so it's an extremely greedy feat that'll definitely cause friction at that table as one player will want to swap and the other won't. Most classes want to go first, with the exception of rogue who often went first but usually didn't want to go first. Also the lack of surprise immunity means you can now be surprised so no chance to get that wild shape or rage off early if you wanted to spec that way.
I guess that could happen, but that is a Player maturity problem and not a game mechanic problem. People that feel entitled to the benefits of another player's abilities are not the type of people I play with.
I agree with that, I still see it being a feature that'll appear in all those r/rpghorrorstories commentator channels all over youtube tho. I personally try to play with mature players in closed groups but I think it is something that'll open conflict in the wider sphere.
The current form of the Alert feat just looks hyper specialized for rogue, since rogues being dex-based almost always were high up the initiate chain and could get in situations in the first round where they had neither advantage or an ally within 5 feet of the target, making them lose their main ability just for rolling well. So the whole swap your initiative to some martial means they can now ensure that they are more likely to be striking a target within 5 foot of an ally. But if you're not a rogue why would you want the current form of alert? literally you'd only want it to be ensure a rogue goes after you... so it's hyper specialized for rogue and I am not certain I like that. I don't mind a feat that is better for rogue but still good for other classes, but this seems like it's excellent for rogue and not so good for other classes.
a few sub-classes come to mind that would desire to go first, including the rogue assassin or a twilight cleric (if you want a sneaky b*stard that is the most lethal killer around go a Gloom Stalker Assassin with Crossbow Expert and a Heavy Crossbow. I'm looking at you The Wolf, you know who you are...).
question for all: if a roll of a natural 1 is an automatic failure, and reading that this is for all d20 rolls (checks, saves, whatever's), then how would you rule an absolute failure to gain initiative? can the person with the new alert feat swap with an individual that has rolled a 1 to give the individual that flubbed the roll a higher turn order
Initiative is unique in that it doesn't really have a defined fail or success state. So nat 1/20 should not do anything special as far as I know.
question for all: if a roll of a natural 1 is an automatic failure, and reading that this is for all d20 rolls (checks, saves, whatever's), then how would you rule an absolute failure to gain initiative? can the person with the new alert feat swap with an individual that has rolled a 1 to give the individual that flubbed the roll a higher turn order
Initiative is unique in that it doesn't really have a defined fail or success state. So nat 1/20 should not do anything special as far as I know.
When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity check to determine their place in the initiative order. under the new rules doesn't the nat1/nat20 apply?
it doesn't need to have a defined state, a 1 could be you are too distracted by something to react to the attack, a 20 the opposite – hyperalert
the question is would someone rolling a 1 be able to be placed higher in the turn order by another individual with the new alert feat
No reason why they can't. While initiative is an ability check, it does not have a rules defined failure or success as it does not have a DC defined by the rules; that's why I called it unique. So while ability checks can auto fail/success, you can't fail an initiative roll. So even if you roll a 1, someone can still be after you in the initiative order if their roll+modifier is lower than yours.
You can't succeed nor fail an initiative check because it has no rules defined condition for success or failure that other ability checks do, a DC.
That's always bug me how to describe initiative. By the rules it's actually an ability challenge not a check.
By the rules 5E, Initiative roll is a Dexterity Check. Nothing in the one D&D play test material out has changed that yet.
Initiative determines the order of turns during combat. When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity check to determine their place in the initiative order.
By the rules 5E, Initiative roll is a Dexterity Check. Nothing in the one D&D play test material out has changed that yet.
The definition of a d20 test requires a target number, so either initiative checks are not d20 tests or they've got sloppy wording (neither would particularly surprise me).
But the method to ensure that is by ganking down another player in the initiative order, so it's an extremely greedy feat that'll definitely cause friction at that table as one player will want to swap and the other won't. Most classes want to go first, with the exception of rogue who often went first but usually didn't want to go first. Also the lack of surprise immunity means you can now be surprised so no chance to get that wild shape or rage off early if you wanted to spec that way.
This Alert feat is NOT the Alert feat we are all used to in 5e. It is entirely a new feat. In the 3.5 days this considered two separate feats, alertness and improved initiative.
I like that this makes your PB come into play for your initiative roll. However, this should already be part of the game. But the scaling is more balanced compared to the 5e version of a flat +5.
The swap feature is meh. Unless you REALLY need someone in your party to go before you, but also before the enemies, I see this as nonsensical as you can just hold your action.
All in all this feat gives you a feature that should already be a game mechanic and a new mechanic that is almost already in the game. So this is a big let down.
Holding your action limits you extremely. It uses up your reaction and all you get is your action from the hold. No bonus, no movement (unless you are holding a dash action). This allows a lot more tactical options. Maybe you want the wizard to go first and drop a fireball before they can unclump. Or get the tankiest in front because you got attacked from behind. I like this option a lot personally but to each their own.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I would actually say that the new alert feat is specialized for commander types: roll high, then look around the table for who it would be really beneficial to have go first.
I guess that could happen, but that is a Player maturity problem and not a game mechanic problem. People that feel entitled to the benefits of another player's abilities are not the type of people I play with.
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It only applies to a willing target, so if your target doesn't want to swap... no swap happens. That's why it's more a feat for leaders: very few people will object to being swapped to a higher initiative.
a few sub-classes come to mind that would desire to go first, including the rogue assassin or a twilight cleric (if you want a sneaky b*stard that is the most lethal killer around go a Gloom Stalker Assassin with Crossbow Expert and a Heavy Crossbow. I'm looking at you The Wolf, you know who you are...).
question for all: if a roll of a natural 1 is an automatic failure, and reading that this is for all d20 rolls (checks, saves, whatever's), then how would you rule an absolute failure to gain initiative? can the person with the new alert feat swap with an individual that has rolled a 1 to give the individual that flubbed the roll a higher turn order
I agree with that, I still see it being a feature that'll appear in all those r/rpghorrorstories commentator channels all over youtube tho. I personally try to play with mature players in closed groups but I think it is something that'll open conflict in the wider sphere.
Initiative is unique in that it doesn't really have a defined fail or success state. So nat 1/20 should not do anything special as far as I know.
When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity check to determine their place in the initiative order. under the new rules doesn't the nat1/nat20 apply?
it doesn't need to have a defined state, a 1 could be you are too distracted by something to react to the attack, a 20 the opposite – hyperalert
my question remains the same, thoughts?
The roll would apply to initiative but an auto success on initiative doesn't mean anything.
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The roll would apply to initiative but an auto success on initiative doesn't mean anything.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
the question is would someone rolling a 1 be able to be placed higher in the turn order by another individual with the new alert feat
Yes, I don't see why not.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
No reason why they can't. While initiative is an ability check, it does not have a rules defined failure or success as it does not have a DC defined by the rules; that's why I called it unique. So while ability checks can auto fail/success, you can't fail an initiative roll. So even if you roll a 1, someone can still be after you in the initiative order if their roll+modifier is lower than yours.
You can't succeed nor fail an initiative check because it has no rules defined condition for success or failure that other ability checks do, a DC.
By the rules 5E, Initiative roll is a Dexterity Check. Nothing in the one D&D play test material out has changed that yet.
The definition of a d20 test requires a target number, so either initiative checks are not d20 tests or they've got sloppy wording (neither would particularly surprise me).