I think they'll probably stick to the most common divine themes with Cleric subclasses. The ones that cover the most kinds of gods and playstyles. While avoiding the ones that kind of blend with other classes in theme like the Knowledge and Nature domains.
So my bet is Life, War, Tempest, and Trickery.
Or they might broaden the scope more into a few bigger catch-all domains. Combine Light and Life, War and Tempest, etc. I guess we'll see tomorrow.
For Wizards they'll probably combine all of the schools into one specialist subclass. That seems the easiest, but it will mean they have to think harder to come up with more in the future. So if they don't like that, they might just pick the 4 most popular, or combine some of the most complimentary schools together to create 4 semi-specialists. That could be interesting.
I think they'll probably stick to the most common divine themes with Cleric subclasses. The ones that cover the most kinds of gods and playstyles. While avoiding the ones that kind of blend with other classes in theme like the Knowledge and Nature domains.
So my bet is Life, War, Tempest, and Trickery.
Or they might broaden the scope more into a few bigger catch-all domains. Combine Light and Life, War and Tempest, etc. I guess we'll see tomorrow.
For Wizards they'll probably combine all of the schools into one specialist subclass. That seems the easiest, but it will mean they have to think harder to come up with more in the future. So if they don't like that, they might just pick the 4 most popular, or combine some of the most complimentary schools together to create 4 semi-specialists. That could be interesting.
We will know more tomorrow. At least for Clerics. I am sure it will be a very fun month of discussion.
I’m interested in the new cleric! Hopefully it’ll be a it more thematic. Clerics to me felt more like holy wizards than wielders of the divine. I’m hoping for the new cleric to be focused a bit more on big bursts of absurd power but with little consistent power to get the “epic god power” moments I’d expect from the class.
Druid being soon after is interesting as well. Hopefully they outright remove conjure animals and the PHB summoning and replace it with Tasha’s summons. Also I hope (hot take incoming) that wild shape gets to be circle of the moon only. I dislike Druid currently as it’s just a mismash of random abilities with a somewhat “nature” theme. I hope there’s more of a focus on different flavors of nature abilities rather than the “you get everything” type Druid.
I’m worried for the warriors. It’ll be nice to see them get stronger and with options in combat but I’m worried about a lack of utility still
With only 4 subclasses for Cleric, I think there will have to be some big changes involved with the Domains. (same for Wizard)
I haven’t had time to watch the video yet but this seems interesting. I like that wizard is being more unified but unsure on cleric. I think domains add a ton of flavor and that might be ruined by only 4 subclasses. Maybe the subclasses are focused on the alignment chart
Given that they have been moving away from alignment for a while now, I doubt they would base subclasses around it. I honestly expect to see Alignment phased out completely in One D&D
Hoping that they'll scale back very sharply on the overall power level of spellcasters, particularly at low levels. Maybe get rid of cantrips, or limit their power (e.g. no more than 1 point of damage, etc.), and cut the number of available spells at each level in half?
I'm not very hopeful, though; IIRC, the lead designer is on record as saying that Wizard is his favorite class, so I expect that they'll benefit from that...
I think life (the healer) and war (wade in with mace or whatever, smiting evil) are solid bets. I would expect one that's focused on smiting with spells, but I'd be inclined more towards light domain than tempest domain for that (both are solid choices). The last is a somewhat harder choice, both knowledge and trickery are tending to overlap with experts, and nature of course overlaps with druids. I might be tempted to go outside of the PHB and pull in the Order domain.
I think life (the healer) and war (wade in with mace or whatever, smiting evil) are solid bets. I would expect one that's focused on smiting with spells, but I'd be inclined more towards light domain than tempest domain for that (both are solid choices). The last is a somewhat harder choice, both knowledge and trickery are tending to overlap with experts, and nature of course overlaps with druids. I might be tempted to go outside of the PHB and pull in the Order domain.
If they are going to pull from other sources, I would hope for Grave Domain. But that is just because War and Grave are the two I like most.
Hoping that they'll scale back very sharply on the overall power level of spellcasters, particularly at low levels. Maybe get rid of cantrips, or limit their power (e.g. no more than 1 point of damage, etc.), and cut the number of available spells at each level in half?
I'm not very hopeful, though; IIRC, the lead designer is on record as saying that Wizard is his favorite class, so I expect that they'll benefit from that...
We can already see that cantrips aren't going anywhere with the two UA's we have already received.
Hoping that they'll scale back very sharply on the overall power level of spellcasters, particularly at low levels. Maybe get rid of cantrips, or limit their power (e.g. no more than 1 point of damage, etc.), and cut the number of available spells at each level in half?
I'm not very hopeful, though; IIRC, the lead designer is on record as saying that Wizard is his favorite class, so I expect that they'll benefit from that...
Yeah, there's no chance of any of that happening. It would be a surefire way to tank OneDnD right out of the gate.
Hoping that they'll scale back very sharply on the overall power level of spellcasters, particularly at low levels. Maybe get rid of cantrips, or limit their power (e.g. no more than 1 point of damage, etc.), and cut the number of available spells at each level in half?
I'm not very hopeful, though; IIRC, the lead designer is on record as saying that Wizard is his favorite class, so I expect that they'll benefit from that...
Yeah, there's no chance of any of that happening. It would be a surefire way to tank OneDnD right out of the gate.
Not to mention: making spellcasters worse at the levels where they're already weak? Why would they do that? I kind of expect things like forcecage and simulacrum to receive the nerf bat, but hardly cantrips.
The majority of survey items scored 80% or higher on satisfaction, with over 39,000 completed surveys for Character Backgrounds. It would appear that the suggestion that everyone hates the new stuff is no accurate.
My take on this is that 5e was so rushed and had so many broken or incomplete mechanics that these new, more refined versions of the rules come across as 80% satisfactory in comparison.
Slightly adjacent to the topic, but its kind of odd that they decided to do 3 classes in one UA then all of sudden they need to focus on a single class (without including multiple subclasses).
After looking at the new UA, I am wondering if the druid will get a similar breakdown of features as the Holy order effecting wild shape/alternatives.
Looking at the basic Player's Handbook there are only about 40 subclasses there in any case.
Other than Cleric and Mage none of them have more than 3 subclasses unless other approved sourcebooks are included.
Other approved books bring the number to about 120 not including the Artificer 3 subs and the not official Blood Hunter 4 subs.
Barb has 2 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Bard has 2 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Cleric has 7 in the PHB and 7 from other official sources.
Druid has 2 in the PHB and 5 from other official sources.
Fighter has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources and 2 more listed but not official sources.
Monk has 3 in the PHB and 7 from other official sources and 1 more listed but not an official source.
Paladin has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources and 1 more listed but not an official source.
Ranger has 2 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Rogue has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Sorcerer has 2 in the PHB and 5 from other official sources.
Warlock has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Wizard has 8 in the PHB and 3 from other official sources and 2 more listed but not official sources.
Every subclass listed so far in the UA is from the basic PHB as expected. The question is are all of the official subclasses not from the PHB going away in 2024 until "remade" in later years? It certainly makes the 12 /48 number easier to achieve. All they would need to do is cut 3 subclasses from Cleric and 4 subclasses from Wizard and increase the other classes by one or two subclasses each.
Looking at the basic Player's Handbook there are only about 40 subclasses there in any case.
Other than Cleric and Mage none of them have more than 3 subclasses unless other approved sourcebooks are included.
Other approved books bring the number to about 120 not including the Artificer 3 subs and the not official Blood Hunter 4 subs.
Barb has 2 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Bard has 2 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Cleric has 7 in the PHB and 7 from other official sources.
Druid has 2 in the PHB and 5 from other official sources.
Fighter has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources and 2 more listed but not official sources.
Monk has 3 in the PHB and 7 from other official sources and 1 more listed but not an official source.
Paladin has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources and 1 more listed but not an official source.
Ranger has 2 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Rogue has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Sorcerer has 2 in the PHB and 5 from other official sources.
Warlock has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Wizard has 8 in the PHB and 3 from other official sources and 2 more listed but not official sources.
Every subclass listed so far in the UA is from the basic PHB as expected. The question is are all of the official subclasses not from the PHB going away in 2024 until "remade" in later years? It certainly makes the 12 /48 number easier to achieve. All they would need to do is cut 3 subclasses from Cleric and 4 subclasses from Wizard and increase the other classes by one or two subclasses each.
What do others think?
My Guess is that they'll focus on updating older subclasses. PHB, Sword Coast Adventurer's guide and such. Maybe some of the more lackluster choices from Xanathar's. These are my guesses for what we'll see, with a tag on what I think they consider the 'default' subclasses.
Barbarian: Berserker (default), Totem Warrior, Battle Rager, One of the Xanathar's Subclasses that needs fixing in some way. Tasha's is too knew for us to see any rebuilds of those subclasses I think.
Bard: Lore, Valor (default), Spirits, ???
Cleric: Life (default), Light, War and Knowledge would seem to be good fits with the Holy Orders.
Druid: Land, Moon (default), Shepard and Dreams
Fighter: Battlemaster (default), Champion, Eldritch Knight, and Arcane Archer.
Monk: Way of the Open Hand (default), Way of Shadow, Way of the Four Elements, Way of the Long Death
Ranger: Hunter, Beast Master, Monster Slayer and Something new.
Rogue: Thief (default), Assassin, Arcane Trickster and either Mastermind, or Swashbucker. Mastermind probably needs more of an overhaul that Swashbuckler, but Swashbuckler is a more popular achetype.
Sorcerer: Draconic Bloodline (default), Wild Magic (they've already said we're getting a new version of this), Storm (This *really* needs a lot of work), Shadow or something new.
Warlock: Archfey, Fiend (default), Great Old One, Hexblade (too popular not to include)
Wizard: I suspect we'll see four entirely new subclasses, and the old PHB subclasses will be phased out.
I suspect Wizard, Warlock, and maybe Monk are going to get huge overhauls to the way they work. Wizard getting massive changes is pretty much a given since everyone is going to prepared caster. We'll see some sort of change to the Spell Book mechanic. At a guess, Wizards will be able to cast rituals out of their spellbooks without having the spells prepared at the very least. They might, also, get all spells of a given level in their spell book automatically when they hit a certain level, but they are going to have to do something to the spell book mechanic to make Wizards stand out compared to Sorcerers now that Sorcerers are going to be prepared casters, and it can't just be a larger spell list.
I don't see how they can make the Sorcerer a prepared caster. The whole point is that the magic just comes out of them whenever they want it to.
As for prepared casting, the lack of that game mechanic in all the other classes kind of nerfed the 5e wizard, so it is refreshing to see that come back for the Bard and Cleric. It's also good for emersion--especially if some players enjoy taking time in their adventure to find spell components and searching old libraries for scrolls that can be learned.
I would like to see a Wizard subclass that is more about being a scholar (Expertise in Knowledge skills, etc) since they enhanced that role in the Cleric. I know some worlds like to have "Colleges of Magic" and I thought it was kind of odd that they would give that role so specifically to the Cleric. (I'm not saying it doesn't work with the Cleric, I'm just saying it might break some worlds where the wizards are the ones who normally take on that kind of role).
I don't see how they can make the Sorcerer a prepared caster. The whole point is that the magic just comes out of them whenever they want it to.
As for prepared casting, the lack of that game mechanic in all the other classes kind of nerfed the 5e wizard, so it is refreshing to see that come back for the Bard and Cleric. It's also good for emersion--especially if some players enjoy taking time in their adventure to find spell components and searching old libraries for scrolls that can be learned.
I would like to see a Wizard subclass that is more about being a scholar (Expertise in Knowledge skills, etc) since they enhanced that role in the Cleric. I know some worlds like to have "Colleges of Magic" and I thought it was kind of odd that they would give that role so specifically to the Cleric. (I'm not saying it doesn't work with the Cleric, I'm just saying it might break some worlds where the wizards are the ones who normally take on that kind of role).
Thematically, Sorcerers should just be able to cast anything on the arcane spell list at any time provided they have a level appropriate spell slot for it, with subclasses opening up the divine and primal spell lists. The problem with that is balance wise, it would kill Wizards and probably Warlocks and Clerics and any Druid subclass that wasn't heavily focused on Wildshape. Sometimes, for balance, you have to accept mechanics that don't necessarily make the most sense. I don't like the fact that they are moving Sorcerer and Warlock subclasses to level 3, because lore wise, it doesn't make a bit of sense, but it's happening anyway. So is the change to Sorcerer and Warlock being prepared casters. They've made it pretty clear that one of their design choices for OneDnD is to do away with Known Spell casters and go all prepared, and honestly, it makes sense from a game mechanics standpoint. It's much friendlier for new players. Especially with the recommended spells lists.
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I think they'll probably stick to the most common divine themes with Cleric subclasses. The ones that cover the most kinds of gods and playstyles. While avoiding the ones that kind of blend with other classes in theme like the Knowledge and Nature domains.
So my bet is Life, War, Tempest, and Trickery.
Or they might broaden the scope more into a few bigger catch-all domains. Combine Light and Life, War and Tempest, etc. I guess we'll see tomorrow.
For Wizards they'll probably combine all of the schools into one specialist subclass. That seems the easiest, but it will mean they have to think harder to come up with more in the future. So if they don't like that, they might just pick the 4 most popular, or combine some of the most complimentary schools together to create 4 semi-specialists. That could be interesting.
We will know more tomorrow. At least for Clerics. I am sure it will be a very fun month of discussion.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Given that they have been moving away from alignment for a while now, I doubt they would base subclasses around it. I honestly expect to see Alignment phased out completely in One D&D
Hoping that they'll scale back very sharply on the overall power level of spellcasters, particularly at low levels. Maybe get rid of cantrips, or limit their power (e.g. no more than 1 point of damage, etc.), and cut the number of available spells at each level in half?
I'm not very hopeful, though; IIRC, the lead designer is on record as saying that Wizard is his favorite class, so I expect that they'll benefit from that...
I think life (the healer) and war (wade in with mace or whatever, smiting evil) are solid bets. I would expect one that's focused on smiting with spells, but I'd be inclined more towards light domain than tempest domain for that (both are solid choices). The last is a somewhat harder choice, both knowledge and trickery are tending to overlap with experts, and nature of course overlaps with druids. I might be tempted to go outside of the PHB and pull in the Order domain.
If they are going to pull from other sources, I would hope for Grave Domain. But that is just because War and Grave are the two I like most.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
We can already see that cantrips aren't going anywhere with the two UA's we have already received.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Why are people expecting multiple subclasses for the Cleric in tomorrow's UA? The Expert Classes UA only had a single subclass for every class.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I only expect to see one, but it will likely give us a good idea what to expect from the other 3.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Yeah, there's no chance of any of that happening. It would be a surefire way to tank OneDnD right out of the gate.
Not to mention: making spellcasters worse at the levels where they're already weak? Why would they do that? I kind of expect things like forcecage and simulacrum to receive the nerf bat, but hardly cantrips.
My take on this is that 5e was so rushed and had so many broken or incomplete mechanics that these new, more refined versions of the rules come across as 80% satisfactory in comparison.
~not a "lazy dungeon master"
Slightly adjacent to the topic, but its kind of odd that they decided to do 3 classes in one UA then all of sudden they need to focus on a single class (without including multiple subclasses).
After looking at the new UA, I am wondering if the druid will get a similar breakdown of features as the Holy order effecting wild shape/alternatives.
Looking at the basic Player's Handbook there are only about 40 subclasses there in any case.
Other than Cleric and Mage none of them have more than 3 subclasses unless other approved sourcebooks are included.
Other approved books bring the number to about 120 not including the Artificer 3 subs and the not official Blood Hunter 4 subs.
Barb has 2 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Bard has 2 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Cleric has 7 in the PHB and 7 from other official sources.
Druid has 2 in the PHB and 5 from other official sources.
Fighter has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources and 2 more listed but not official sources.
Monk has 3 in the PHB and 7 from other official sources and 1 more listed but not an official source.
Paladin has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources and 1 more listed but not an official source.
Ranger has 2 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Rogue has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Sorcerer has 2 in the PHB and 5 from other official sources.
Warlock has 3 in the PHB and 6 from other official sources.
Wizard has 8 in the PHB and 3 from other official sources and 2 more listed but not official sources.
Every subclass listed so far in the UA is from the basic PHB as expected. The question is are all of the official subclasses not from the PHB going away in 2024 until "remade" in later years? It certainly makes the 12 /48 number easier to achieve. All they would need to do is cut 3 subclasses from Cleric and 4 subclasses from Wizard and increase the other classes by one or two subclasses each.
What do others think?
My Guess is that they'll focus on updating older subclasses. PHB, Sword Coast Adventurer's guide and such. Maybe some of the more lackluster choices from Xanathar's. These are my guesses for what we'll see, with a tag on what I think they consider the 'default' subclasses.
Barbarian: Berserker (default), Totem Warrior, Battle Rager, One of the Xanathar's Subclasses that needs fixing in some way. Tasha's is too knew for us to see any rebuilds of those subclasses I think.
Bard: Lore, Valor (default), Spirits, ???
Cleric: Life (default), Light, War and Knowledge would seem to be good fits with the Holy Orders.
Druid: Land, Moon (default), Shepard and Dreams
Fighter: Battlemaster (default), Champion, Eldritch Knight, and Arcane Archer.
Monk: Way of the Open Hand (default), Way of Shadow, Way of the Four Elements, Way of the Long Death
Paladin: Devotion (default), Ancients, Vengence, Crown
Ranger: Hunter, Beast Master, Monster Slayer and Something new.
Rogue: Thief (default), Assassin, Arcane Trickster and either Mastermind, or Swashbucker. Mastermind probably needs more of an overhaul that Swashbuckler, but Swashbuckler is a more popular achetype.
Sorcerer: Draconic Bloodline (default), Wild Magic (they've already said we're getting a new version of this), Storm (This *really* needs a lot of work), Shadow or something new.
Warlock: Archfey, Fiend (default), Great Old One, Hexblade (too popular not to include)
Wizard: I suspect we'll see four entirely new subclasses, and the old PHB subclasses will be phased out.
I suspect Wizard, Warlock, and maybe Monk are going to get huge overhauls to the way they work. Wizard getting massive changes is pretty much a given since everyone is going to prepared caster. We'll see some sort of change to the Spell Book mechanic. At a guess, Wizards will be able to cast rituals out of their spellbooks without having the spells prepared at the very least. They might, also, get all spells of a given level in their spell book automatically when they hit a certain level, but they are going to have to do something to the spell book mechanic to make Wizards stand out compared to Sorcerers now that Sorcerers are going to be prepared casters, and it can't just be a larger spell list.
I don't see how they can make the Sorcerer a prepared caster. The whole point is that the magic just comes out of them whenever they want it to.
As for prepared casting, the lack of that game mechanic in all the other classes kind of nerfed the 5e wizard, so it is refreshing to see that come back for the Bard and Cleric. It's also good for emersion--especially if some players enjoy taking time in their adventure to find spell components and searching old libraries for scrolls that can be learned.
I would like to see a Wizard subclass that is more about being a scholar (Expertise in Knowledge skills, etc) since they enhanced that role in the Cleric. I know some worlds like to have "Colleges of Magic" and I thought it was kind of odd that they would give that role so specifically to the Cleric. (I'm not saying it doesn't work with the Cleric, I'm just saying it might break some worlds where the wizards are the ones who normally take on that kind of role).
~not a "lazy dungeon master"
Thematically, Sorcerers should just be able to cast anything on the arcane spell list at any time provided they have a level appropriate spell slot for it, with subclasses opening up the divine and primal spell lists. The problem with that is balance wise, it would kill Wizards and probably Warlocks and Clerics and any Druid subclass that wasn't heavily focused on Wildshape. Sometimes, for balance, you have to accept mechanics that don't necessarily make the most sense. I don't like the fact that they are moving Sorcerer and Warlock subclasses to level 3, because lore wise, it doesn't make a bit of sense, but it's happening anyway. So is the change to Sorcerer and Warlock being prepared casters. They've made it pretty clear that one of their design choices for OneDnD is to do away with Known Spell casters and go all prepared, and honestly, it makes sense from a game mechanics standpoint. It's much friendlier for new players. Especially with the recommended spells lists.