By the way, Divine Spark has its own independent resource pool - PBtpLR, unlike healing spells you might gain from a feat or lineage. Pretty dope for 1 level investment, but I wouldn't yet call it game-breaking.
I agree that the damage part alone isn't gong to make anyone run to dip into Cleric. But the healing is pretty great. Especially if the party doesn't have a dedicated healer. It has the range you want, scales very well, and isn't ability score dependant.
I would consider the healing (and the rare usefulness of Turn Undead as a bonus) to make it a very appealing multiclass choice for any spellcaster or half caster. Clerics have full caster progression, so you aren't losing out on anything there. They get medium armor and shields right from the start. Better hit dice in a lot of cases.
With the capstone abilities moved down to level 18, and the subclasses up to level 3, it really feels like WotC is encouraging two levels of multiclassing. Enough to get something cool, but not enough for the big features. They say they want to discourage the kind of multiclassing that makes people 'grit their teeth.' But then they make some of the 1st and 2nd level features really good. Like Divine Spark, Favored Enemy, and Bardic Inspiration. They scale well and don't require any investment in a different stat to work. While the subclass features at level 3 aren't as impressive.
I'm not really sure what the goal is. And whether more multiclassing is good or not is going to be completely subjective. But the more classes we see, the more I wonder what their plan really is.
I agree that the damage part alone isn't gong to make anyone run to dip into Cleric. But the healing is pretty great. Especially if the party doesn't have a dedicated healer. It has the range you want, scales very well, and isn't ability score dependant.
I would consider the healing (and the rare usefulness of Turn Undead as a bonus) to make it a very appealing multiclass choice for any spellcaster or half caster. Clerics have full caster progression, so you aren't losing out on anything there. They get medium armor and shields right from the start. Better hit dice in a lot of cases.
With the capstone abilities moved down to level 18, and the subclasses up to level 3, it really feels like WotC is encouraging two levels of multiclassing. Enough to get something cool, but not enough for the big features. They say they want to discourage the kind of multiclassing that makes people 'grit their teeth.' But then they make some of the 1st and 2nd level features really good. Like Divine Spark, Favored Enemy, and Bardic Inspiration. They scale well and don't require any investment in a different stat to work. While the subclass features at level 3 aren't as impressive.
I'm not really sure what the goal is. And whether more multiclassing is good or not is going to be completely subjective. But the more classes we see, the more I wonder what their plan really is.
Maybe the objective is to except that people are going to multiclass and to balance that with features that make all classes more appealing instead of just Hexblade all while rewarding those that go further with subclass features.
WotC talks about Multiclassing in the videos as part of why some things are changing. The acknowledgement that Multiclassing and Feats are common means that they can start thinking of that as part of class design.
Admittedly, it's a small sample size with only four classes shown, but if you look at other level 1 active features like sneak attack and bardic inspiration, you get examples where the potency of the feature scales on class level rather than proficiency bonus. With talk of multiclassing, it seems like channel divinity's structure was a bit of a blind spot and I expect it to be refined through the feedback process.
Or maybe upcoming classes will provide more examples of level 1 active features scaling potency on proficiency bonus and bards and rogues will be more of an exception rather than the rule. Time will tell.
Admittedly, it's a small sample size with only four classes shown, but if you look at other level 1 active features like sneak attack and bardic inspiration, you get examples where the potency of the feature scales on class level rather than proficiency bonus. With talk of multiclassing, it seems like channel divinity's structure was a bit of a blind spot and I expect it to be refined through the feedback process.
Or maybe upcoming classes will provide more examples of level 1 active features scaling potency on proficiency bonus and bards and rogues will be more of an exception rather than the rule. Time will tell.
Right, that was the oddest part to me. That both the number of uses, and the power of each use increases based on proficiency. One of those should probably change. They have repeatedly said that power levels will be adjusted before printing. So sometimes I wonder if they put some really strong things out first for a reason. Whether it's to see how far they can push it, to find out if that's what we really wanted all along, or just to see if we're paying attention haha.
Admittedly, it's a small sample size with only four classes shown, but if you look at other level 1 active features like sneak attack and bardic inspiration, you get examples where the potency of the feature scales on class level rather than proficiency bonus. With talk of multiclassing, it seems like channel divinity's structure was a bit of a blind spot and I expect it to be refined through the feedback process.
Or maybe upcoming classes will provide more examples of level 1 active features scaling potency on proficiency bonus and bards and rogues will be more of an exception rather than the rule. Time will tell.
Right, that was the oddest part to me. That both the number of uses, and the power of each use increases based on proficiency. One of those should probably change. They have repeatedly said that power levels will be adjusted before printing. So sometimes I wonder if they put some really strong things out first for a reason. Whether it's to see how far they can push it, to find out if that's what we really wanted all along, or just to see if we're paying attention haha.
I really don't think that Divine Spark is too strong, it is good, but not too good. It is one of those abilities that are great when you really need it, but there is normally a better option. I don't see people multiclassing into cleric for it the way people multiclassed into Hexblade for example.
Currently DMing for a Goliath Life Cleric. They are having fun and enjoy the feature, but as DM, it hasn't really broken anything. The closest thing to broken has been Healing Word followed by a Divine Spark to double up on the healing of a downed PC, but even that isn't exactly game breaking, but this is just my opinion.
Do many of our perceptions or calculations regarding the UA Cleric (+ Life Domain) assume multi-classing will be the same as 5e? What changes to multiclassing would eliminate concerns and questions regarding the UA Cleric or other classes?
Admittedly, it's a small sample size with only four classes shown, but if you look at other level 1 active features like sneak attack and bardic inspiration, you get examples where the potency of the feature scales on class level rather than proficiency bonus. With talk of multiclassing, it seems like channel divinity's structure was a bit of a blind spot and I expect it to be refined through the feedback process.
Or maybe upcoming classes will provide more examples of level 1 active features scaling potency on proficiency bonus and bards and rogues will be more of an exception rather than the rule. Time will tell.
Right, that was the oddest part to me. That both the number of uses, and the power of each use increases based on proficiency. One of those should probably change. They have repeatedly said that power levels will be adjusted before printing. So sometimes I wonder if they put some really strong things out first for a reason. Whether it's to see how far they can push it, to find out if that's what we really wanted all along, or just to see if we're paying attention haha.
I really don't think that Divine Spark is too strong, it is good, but not too good. It is one of those abilities that are great when you really need it, but there is normally a better option. I don't see people multiclassing into cleric for it the way people multiclassed into Hexblade for example.
Currently DMing for a Goliath Life Cleric. They are having fun and enjoy the feature, but as DM, it hasn't really broken anything. The closest thing to broken has been Healing Word followed by a Divine Spark to double up on the healing of a downed PC, but even that isn't exactly game breaking, but this is just my opinion.
You could be right. It might all balance out in end. I'm excited to playtest it. I do try to find the parts in the UAs that look abusable so I can be aware of them during play. I tracked every potential use of Guidance during the last one for that reason. And had one multiclass ranger to see how big an impact it had. I'll probably do the same with Cleric. We'll try to run one Cleric straight. And then also keep trying to make the most broken multiclass combos we can think of. Just to see if it's really that bad. Looks like a Cleric/Ranger/Bard this time haha. If anyone has ideas to make a really OP character out of the UA material we have so far, I'd love to compile them.
Current UA Playtest 6 - Life Cleric subclass ability Preserve Life is interesting and useful, but the cost is excessive.
3RD LEVEL: PRESERVE LIFE As part of casting a prepared Abjuration spell from the Divine spell list, you can expend uses of Channel Divinity to create a spell slot to use for the casting. You must expend a number of Channel Divinity uses equal to the spell’s level. For example, you can expend one use of Channel Divinity to create a 1st-level spell slot for a casting of Shield of Faith if you have that spell prepared
Good design insight that a Life Cleric may need another Abjuration spell to help their team rather than only healing hitpoints. However, using one Channel Divinity per spell level is too high. In comparison, every 5E Cleric has Harness Divinity, providing a level 1-3 spell slot per use of Channel Divinity.
Harness Divine Power
2nd-level cleric feature You can expend a use of your Channel Divinity to fuel your spells. As a bonus action, you touch your holy symbol, utter a prayer, and regain one expended spell slot, the level of which can be no higher than half your proficiency bonus (rounded up). The number of times you can use this feature is based on the level you’ve reached in this class: 2nd level, once; 6th level, twice; and 18th level, thrice. You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Finally, Divine Intervention in Playtest 6 provides a 5th level spell so there seems to be multiple mechanisms for a Life Cleric to get a spell slot.
I would prefer Preserve Life to be something unique rather than a means to duplicate another spell slot. For example, can one use of Channel Divinity be used as a reaction to offset a critical hit and save a character? Another example is that Divine Spark scales with cleric level for a single use of Channel Divinity, a more efficient use than a single Channel Divinity for a 1st level Abjuration spell.
By the way, Divine Spark has its own independent resource pool - PBtpLR, unlike healing spells you might gain from a feat or lineage. Pretty dope for 1 level investment, but I wouldn't yet call it game-breaking.
I agree that the damage part alone isn't gong to make anyone run to dip into Cleric. But the healing is pretty great. Especially if the party doesn't have a dedicated healer. It has the range you want, scales very well, and isn't ability score dependant.
I would consider the healing (and the rare usefulness of Turn Undead as a bonus) to make it a very appealing multiclass choice for any spellcaster or half caster. Clerics have full caster progression, so you aren't losing out on anything there. They get medium armor and shields right from the start. Better hit dice in a lot of cases.
With the capstone abilities moved down to level 18, and the subclasses up to level 3, it really feels like WotC is encouraging two levels of multiclassing. Enough to get something cool, but not enough for the big features. They say they want to discourage the kind of multiclassing that makes people 'grit their teeth.' But then they make some of the 1st and 2nd level features really good. Like Divine Spark, Favored Enemy, and Bardic Inspiration. They scale well and don't require any investment in a different stat to work. While the subclass features at level 3 aren't as impressive.
I'm not really sure what the goal is. And whether more multiclassing is good or not is going to be completely subjective. But the more classes we see, the more I wonder what their plan really is.
Maybe the objective is to except that people are going to multiclass and to balance that with features that make all classes more appealing
instead of just Hexbladeall while rewarding those that go further with subclass features.WotC talks about Multiclassing in the videos as part of why some things are changing. The acknowledgement that Multiclassing and Feats are common means that they can start thinking of that as part of class design.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Admittedly, it's a small sample size with only four classes shown, but if you look at other level 1 active features like sneak attack and bardic inspiration, you get examples where the potency of the feature scales on class level rather than proficiency bonus. With talk of multiclassing, it seems like channel divinity's structure was a bit of a blind spot and I expect it to be refined through the feedback process.
Or maybe upcoming classes will provide more examples of level 1 active features scaling potency on proficiency bonus and bards and rogues will be more of an exception rather than the rule. Time will tell.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Right, that was the oddest part to me. That both the number of uses, and the power of each use increases based on proficiency. One of those should probably change. They have repeatedly said that power levels will be adjusted before printing. So sometimes I wonder if they put some really strong things out first for a reason. Whether it's to see how far they can push it, to find out if that's what we really wanted all along, or just to see if we're paying attention haha.
I really don't think that Divine Spark is too strong, it is good, but not too good. It is one of those abilities that are great when you really need it, but there is normally a better option. I don't see people multiclassing into cleric for it the way people multiclassed into Hexblade for example.
Currently DMing for a Goliath Life Cleric. They are having fun and enjoy the feature, but as DM, it hasn't really broken anything. The closest thing to broken has been Healing Word followed by a Divine Spark to double up on the healing of a downed PC, but even that isn't exactly game breaking, but this is just my opinion.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Do many of our perceptions or calculations regarding the UA Cleric (+ Life Domain) assume multi-classing will be the same as 5e? What changes to multiclassing would eliminate concerns and questions regarding the UA Cleric or other classes?
You could be right. It might all balance out in end. I'm excited to playtest it. I do try to find the parts in the UAs that look abusable so I can be aware of them during play. I tracked every potential use of Guidance during the last one for that reason. And had one multiclass ranger to see how big an impact it had. I'll probably do the same with Cleric. We'll try to run one Cleric straight. And then also keep trying to make the most broken multiclass combos we can think of. Just to see if it's really that bad. Looks like a Cleric/Ranger/Bard this time haha. If anyone has ideas to make a really OP character out of the UA material we have so far, I'd love to compile them.
Current UA Playtest 6 - Life Cleric subclass ability Preserve Life is interesting and useful, but the cost is excessive.
Good design insight that a Life Cleric may need another Abjuration spell to help their team rather than only healing hitpoints. However, using one Channel Divinity per spell level is too high. In comparison, every 5E Cleric has Harness Divinity, providing a level 1-3 spell slot per use of Channel Divinity.
Finally, Divine Intervention in Playtest 6 provides a 5th level spell so there seems to be multiple mechanisms for a Life Cleric to get a spell slot.
I would prefer Preserve Life to be something unique rather than a means to duplicate another spell slot. For example, can one use of Channel Divinity be used as a reaction to offset a critical hit and save a character? Another example is that Divine Spark scales with cleric level for a single use of Channel Divinity, a more efficient use than a single Channel Divinity for a 1st level Abjuration spell.