I'll start by saying that overall, every single release so far has had overwhelmingly great changes. That said, druid missed the boat. There are some good things there but it removes a lot of what veterans love about the class.
I get that the druid is far and away the most complicated class. They have all the complexity of casters with a more complex and difficult to understand spell list, plus all those wild shapes. The reality is, there are really only a handful of useful beasts out there. The druid should not need to go visit the monster manual, the One DND release got that right. However, simply giving 3 stat blocks and calling it good removes a ton of what makes the feature exciting, especially for moon druids. Need to lock down an enemy? Giant Constrictor snake! Want to be a bear? Or a Squirrel? or a giant eagle? Or a spider? Sometimes wild shape is useful just to do some scouting. Sometimes it's useful to run away or traverse an obstacle. A better option to make wild shape easier would be to just dedicate a few pages in the new PHB to showcase some of the most useful forms. Or, give 2 or 3 useful options at level breakpoints. I do think that continuing to use the druid hit points instead of the animal's does fix the issues of the near invincible druids. This is a needed change.
This feature is so interesting but the fun has been nerfed into the ground. I really hope this doesn't make it into the final product.
Setting aside the other issues with WS, the best thing they could have done was change the wording slightly so the new statblocks are optional additions to being able to use any qualifying beast statblock. That way, newbies and people who don't want to/can't use the MM statblocks have their simple statblocks they can use, people who want the variety and complexity of using MM statblocks can also do so.
Job done.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Need to lock down an enemy? Giant Constrictor snake! Want to be a bear? Or a Squirrel? or a giant eagle? Or a spider? Sometimes wild shape is useful just to do some scouting. Sometimes it's useful to run away or traverse an obstacle. A better option to make wild shape easier would be to just dedicate a few pages in the new PHB to showcase some of the most useful forms. Or, give 2 or 3 useful options at level breakpoints.
Nothing stops you from becoming a giant constrictor snake at level 1, something you can't do currently, as it's CR 2. You don't get an actual Constrict feature, but your STR in the Wild Shape is equal to your WIS, so presumably you'll be pretty decent at grappling checks
Creatures with extra movement abilities, like an eagle, are still level-locked, just as they are in 5e
I do think restricting the ability to turn into a Tiny creature to level 11 is a bit much
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Setting aside the other issues with WS, the best thing they could have done was change the wording slightly so the new statblocks are optional additions to being able to use any qualifying beast statblock. That way, newbies and people who don't want to/can't use the MM statblocks have their simple statblocks they can use, people who want the variety and complexity of using MM statblocks can also do so.
Job done.
Leaving this as an option retains the issues of bear druids dominating melee at low tiers and WotC needing to scrutinize every AP/module for problematic Beasts (like Crawford's example of the Acquisitions Incorporated tentacle.) Mutable statblocks solve both of those, they just need proper scaling and an interesting ability pool.
WotC should be scrutinising every statblock anyway, and their CR should be appropriate to their abilities. That's a problem regardless of the Druid - there's a reason why statblocks are given a CR and it's not just to regulate Wildshaping.
If Wildshaping into Bears is a problem, then adjust what CRs Druids can WS into at each level. If it's because bears are more powerful than other creatures at their CR, then the problem is that they're the wrong CR and we're back at the first problem - WotC is not doing their job properly, and need to wake up and start assessing their CRs, regardless of what WS is doing.
The fix for this is to either adjust the way Druid level interacts with the CR of the creatures it gives access to, or for WotC to start caring about their product more.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
WotC should be scrutinising every statblock anyway, and their CR should be appropriate to their abilities. That's a problem regardless of the Druid - there's a reason why statblocks are given a CR and it's not just to regulate Wildshaping.
They are - as monsters. But something being a suitable challenge as a monster doesn't make it a equally suitable to being a player option. Even the very simple step of keeping your own mental stats and save proficiencies while in animal form throws off the CR, never mind your racials, other features and whatever buff you're concentrating on. There's no simple silver bullet calculation WotC could do to solve that using the monster statblocks.
As for "caring about their product more" - them changing it for the new books, y'know, that.
Nothing stops you from becoming a giant constrictor snake at level 1, something you can't do currently, as it's CR 2. You don't get an actual Constrict feature, but your STR in the Wild Shape is equal to your WIS, so presumably you'll be pretty decent at grappling checks
Creatures with extra movement abilities, like an eagle, are still level-locked, just as they are in 5e
I do think restricting the ability to turn into a Tiny creature to level 11 is a bit much
Constrict gives the target the Restrained condition, which is basically a better version of Grapple as if gives the enemy Disadvantage on attacks against you and gives your allies advantage against them. With the One DnD grapple rules and your low AC if you tried to grapple someone they'd probably just turn around and kill you while you waste time trying to grapple them.
Also, your "snake" can't swim and won't be able to climb until level 5. Nor will it have 10ft reach on attacks or Blindsight.
You'd be a snake in appearance only, unable to do anything unique that a snake can be expected to do. You'd also be making a tactically inferior decision because snakes don't have hands and the only thing your shape actually affects by RAW is whether or not you can manipulate objects.
Nothing stops you from becoming a giant constrictor snake at level 1, something you can't do currently, as it's CR 2. You don't get an actual Constrict feature, but your STR in the Wild Shape is equal to your WIS, so presumably you'll be pretty decent at grappling checks
Creatures with extra movement abilities, like an eagle, are still level-locked, just as they are in 5e
I do think restricting the ability to turn into a Tiny creature to level 11 is a bit much
Constrict gives the target the Restrained condition, which is basically a better version of Grapple as if gives the enemy Disadvantage on attacks against you and gives your allies advantage against them. With the One DnD grapple rules and your low AC if you tried to grapple someone they'd probably just turn around and kill you while you waste time trying to grapple them.
Also, your "snake" can't swim and won't be able to climb until level 5. Nor will it have 10ft reach on attacks or Blindsight.
You'd be a snake in appearance only, unable to do anything unique that a snake can be expected to do. You'd also be making a tactically inferior decision because snakes don't have hands and the only thing your shape actually affects by RAW is whether or not you can manipulate objects.
Well, unless you're Circle of the Moon, you currently can't turn into a giant constrictor snake at any level, so I'm still not really sure what the complaint is here
You might as well be complaining that the One D&D druid can't Wild Shape into a t-rex
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The giant constrictor snake was merely one of many examples of the diverse range of abilities druids are currently able to use for all kinds of interesting problem solving. Also, moon druids do exist so why wouldnt the complaint be valid?
I'm of the opinion that wildshape did need to be streamlined. I don't think that any spell/feature that requires the player to look up a huge list of creatures located entirely seperate from the spell/feature itself is good game esign. That said, the UA version is just incredibly lame and boring... I'm hoping for statblocks + a system that allow for druids to learn different traits they can apply to their wilshape.
At my tables the druid provides two important roles.
1. Situational adaptability. In a game where prepared spells exist, it means utility spells can be very hit and miss. Knowing what you need is almost impossible, so guessing happens. The wildshape versatility works great as backup when that fails.
2. Player options for desiring more depth. A playstyle for players that want more complex strategies or creative solutions. It also provides dm depth of play for people toying with the idea of dming or a place for dms (or others familiar with statblocks) to justify their knowledge without being worried about meta gaming issues.
In order for onedruid to succeed at least some of that needs to return.
Nothing stops you from becoming a giant constrictor snake at level 1, something you can't do currently, as it's CR 2. You don't get an actual Constrict feature, but your STR in the Wild Shape is equal to your WIS, so presumably you'll be pretty decent at grappling checks
Creatures with extra movement abilities, like an eagle, are still level-locked, just as they are in 5e
I do think restricting the ability to turn into a Tiny creature to level 11 is a bit much
Constrict gives the target the Restrained condition, which is basically a better version of Grapple as if gives the enemy Disadvantage on attacks against you and gives your allies advantage against them. With the One DnD grapple rules and your low AC if you tried to grapple someone they'd probably just turn around and kill you while you waste time trying to grapple them.
Also, your "snake" can't swim and won't be able to climb until level 5. Nor will it have 10ft reach on attacks or Blindsight.
You'd be a snake in appearance only, unable to do anything unique that a snake can be expected to do. You'd also be making a tactically inferior decision because snakes don't have hands and the only thing your shape actually affects by RAW is whether or not you can manipulate objects.
Well, unless you're Circle of the Moon, you currently can't turn into a giant constrictor snake at any level, so I'm still not really sure what the complaint is here
You might as well be complaining that the One D&D druid can't Wild Shape into a t-rex
While the specific example may be flawed the principle is sound. In 5e there are beasts that grapple on a hit (ac target) there are ones that force saves. Each one works better depending on the enemy stats.
Similarly sometimes avoiding difficult terrain (via flight,leaps or actually ignoring i) provides better movement than boosts to the the movement.
Simalrly Vision, defense, and basically any unique features or traits.
These animals are unique stat blocks for a reason. Those traits make them the animals being able to tap that is core to druid. (And phb beastmaster). Their power and design can be cleaned up but adaptability is key.
Well, unless you're Circle of the Moon, you currently can't turn into a giant constrictor snake at any level, so I'm still not really sure what the complaint is here
You might as well be complaining that the One D&D druid can't Wild Shape into a t-rex
I am literally playing a Moon Druid in my current campaign, so...
Speaking of T-Rex, not only can One DnD not turn into an adult-sized tyrannosaurus rex we're losing access to the Huge size in general. So no more brontosaurus, mammoth, or even elephant unless you want to be a weird mini version of the animal.
The oneD&D druid wildshape is not viable for combat, for non moon I am fine with that. The problem is the lack of versatility makes it less useful out of combat. In my druid campaign something we killed became a revenant, to try and prevent it coming back we tried knocking it unconcious and burying it for which I turned into a giant badger.
I get the need to move away from being able to transform into any of 100 beasts all with their own stat block. What I think the best option would be is a base form which you can enhance as you level up more enhancements become available and you can choose more on a specific beast examples would be
Thats the odd thing about it .It isnt viable in combat, but its trying to be. I dont know why every druid needs an "almost-viable" wildshape shape that doesnt do anything in terms of utility, and then moon druid only get minors upgrades on top of that.
Offensively I am fine with the One D&D wildshape. Non moon can do something but is going to better far better off out of wildshape and a moon druid is not as good as a martial class by itself but given they are likely also concentrating on a spell they are roughtly helping the party as much as the rest of the party.
The problem with moon druid is defence.
A d8 hit dice when most melee PCs have a d10 or d12
Monks and some rogues are melee with a d8 but they don't count as they are skirmishers, they can disengage as a bonus action (and the mobile feat doesn't work while wildshaped) monks biggest problem is that it is a limited resource
At level 3 a wildshaped druid is likely to have an AC of 13, not going past 18 until level 20. A fighter is likely to start with 16 or 18 if they carry a shield and at the end game with +3 plate and a +2 shied it could be 25
Every other PC has proficiency in at least 2 saving throws the moon druid has none while wildshaped.
Sure most of the above applies ot moon druids in 5e butthat is why they have a load of extra hit points
I agree with most of the points raised by the OP. However, I would add that if 1D&D is going the route of templates, A) make templates 100% optional, and B) differentiate templates not only based on land, water, and air, but also based on function: 3 templates per environment. Land, Water, and Air should each get one Stealth option, one Bruiser option, and one Control option. Stealth would mean a Stealth bonus as well as keen senses of some kind, not unlike the PHB Owl. Bruiser would be something chunky with a lot of hit points, like the current PHB Brown Bear. Control would be some form that offers one or more abilities for inflicting a status condition on an opponent, much as the PHB Constrictor Snake imposes the Restrained condition or the PHB Giant Octopus creates obscurement (not technically a condition but those inside the cloud are basically blinded). As such, there could be 9 templates, which is far easier to handle than just handing the Monster Manual to a player, but also contains some tactical depth so as not to be boring and super-limited from the get-go.
Above all, devs should be aware that too much streamlining kills the point of playing the Druid. Druid is not Cleric of Nature. It is a separate class for a reason. The improvisational adaptability of Wildshape should be one of those reasons.
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I'll start by saying that overall, every single release so far has had overwhelmingly great changes. That said, druid missed the boat. There are some good things there but it removes a lot of what veterans love about the class.
I get that the druid is far and away the most complicated class. They have all the complexity of casters with a more complex and difficult to understand spell list, plus all those wild shapes. The reality is, there are really only a handful of useful beasts out there. The druid should not need to go visit the monster manual, the One DND release got that right. However, simply giving 3 stat blocks and calling it good removes a ton of what makes the feature exciting, especially for moon druids. Need to lock down an enemy? Giant Constrictor snake! Want to be a bear? Or a Squirrel? or a giant eagle? Or a spider? Sometimes wild shape is useful just to do some scouting. Sometimes it's useful to run away or traverse an obstacle. A better option to make wild shape easier would be to just dedicate a few pages in the new PHB to showcase some of the most useful forms. Or, give 2 or 3 useful options at level breakpoints. I do think that continuing to use the druid hit points instead of the animal's does fix the issues of the near invincible druids. This is a needed change.
This feature is so interesting but the fun has been nerfed into the ground. I really hope this doesn't make it into the final product.
Setting aside the other issues with WS, the best thing they could have done was change the wording slightly so the new statblocks are optional additions to being able to use any qualifying beast statblock. That way, newbies and people who don't want to/can't use the MM statblocks have their simple statblocks they can use, people who want the variety and complexity of using MM statblocks can also do so.
Job done.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Nothing stops you from becoming a giant constrictor snake at level 1, something you can't do currently, as it's CR 2. You don't get an actual Constrict feature, but your STR in the Wild Shape is equal to your WIS, so presumably you'll be pretty decent at grappling checks
Creatures with extra movement abilities, like an eagle, are still level-locked, just as they are in 5e
I do think restricting the ability to turn into a Tiny creature to level 11 is a bit much
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Leaving this as an option retains the issues of bear druids dominating melee at low tiers and WotC needing to scrutinize every AP/module for problematic Beasts (like Crawford's example of the Acquisitions Incorporated tentacle.) Mutable statblocks solve both of those, they just need proper scaling and an interesting ability pool.
WotC should be scrutinising every statblock anyway, and their CR should be appropriate to their abilities. That's a problem regardless of the Druid - there's a reason why statblocks are given a CR and it's not just to regulate Wildshaping.
If Wildshaping into Bears is a problem, then adjust what CRs Druids can WS into at each level. If it's because bears are more powerful than other creatures at their CR, then the problem is that they're the wrong CR and we're back at the first problem - WotC is not doing their job properly, and need to wake up and start assessing their CRs, regardless of what WS is doing.
The fix for this is to either adjust the way Druid level interacts with the CR of the creatures it gives access to, or for WotC to start caring about their product more.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
They are - as monsters. But something being a suitable challenge as a monster doesn't make it a equally suitable to being a player option. Even the very simple step of keeping your own mental stats and save proficiencies while in animal form throws off the CR, never mind your racials, other features and whatever buff you're concentrating on. There's no simple silver bullet calculation WotC could do to solve that using the monster statblocks.
As for "caring about their product more" - them changing it for the new books, y'know, that.
Constrict gives the target the Restrained condition, which is basically a better version of Grapple as if gives the enemy Disadvantage on attacks against you and gives your allies advantage against them. With the One DnD grapple rules and your low AC if you tried to grapple someone they'd probably just turn around and kill you while you waste time trying to grapple them.
Also, your "snake" can't swim and won't be able to climb until level 5. Nor will it have 10ft reach on attacks or Blindsight.
You'd be a snake in appearance only, unable to do anything unique that a snake can be expected to do. You'd also be making a tactically inferior decision because snakes don't have hands and the only thing your shape actually affects by RAW is whether or not you can manipulate objects.
Well, unless you're Circle of the Moon, you currently can't turn into a giant constrictor snake at any level, so I'm still not really sure what the complaint is here
You might as well be complaining that the One D&D druid can't Wild Shape into a t-rex
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The giant constrictor snake was merely one of many examples of the diverse range of abilities druids are currently able to use for all kinds of interesting problem solving. Also, moon druids do exist so why wouldnt the complaint be valid?
I'm of the opinion that wildshape did need to be streamlined. I don't think that any spell/feature that requires the player to look up a huge list of creatures located entirely seperate from the spell/feature itself is good game esign. That said, the UA version is just incredibly lame and boring... I'm hoping for statblocks + a system that allow for druids to learn different traits they can apply to their wilshape.
At my tables the druid provides two important roles.
1. Situational adaptability. In a game where prepared spells exist, it means utility spells can be very hit and miss. Knowing what you need is almost impossible, so guessing happens. The wildshape versatility works great as backup when that fails.
2. Player options for desiring more depth. A playstyle for players that want more complex strategies or creative solutions. It also provides dm depth of play for people toying with the idea of dming or a place for dms (or others familiar with statblocks) to justify their knowledge without being worried about meta gaming issues.
In order for onedruid to succeed at least some of that needs to return.
While the specific example may be flawed the principle is sound. In 5e there are beasts that grapple on a hit (ac target) there are ones that force saves. Each one works better depending on the enemy stats.
Similarly sometimes avoiding difficult terrain (via flight,leaps or actually ignoring i) provides better movement than boosts to the the movement.
Simalrly Vision, defense, and basically any unique features or traits.
These animals are unique stat blocks for a reason. Those traits make them the animals being able to tap that is core to druid. (And phb beastmaster). Their power and design can be cleaned up but adaptability is key.
I am literally playing a Moon Druid in my current campaign, so...
Speaking of T-Rex, not only can One DnD not turn into an adult-sized tyrannosaurus rex we're losing access to the Huge size in general. So no more brontosaurus, mammoth, or even elephant unless you want to be a weird mini version of the animal.
The oneD&D druid wildshape is not viable for combat, for non moon I am fine with that. The problem is the lack of versatility makes it less useful out of combat. In my druid campaign something we killed became a revenant, to try and prevent it coming back we tried knocking it unconcious and burying it for which I turned into a giant badger.
I get the need to move away from being able to transform into any of 100 beasts all with their own stat block. What I think the best option would be is a base form which you can enhance as you level up more enhancements become available and you can choose more on a specific beast examples would be
Thats the odd thing about it .It isnt viable in combat, but its trying to be. I dont know why every druid needs an "almost-viable" wildshape shape that doesnt do anything in terms of utility, and then moon druid only get minors upgrades on top of that.
Offensively I am fine with the One D&D wildshape. Non moon can do something but is going to better far better off out of wildshape and a moon druid is not as good as a martial class by itself but given they are likely also concentrating on a spell they are roughtly helping the party as much as the rest of the party.
The problem with moon druid is defence.
Sure most of the above applies ot moon druids in 5e butthat is why they have a load of extra hit points
I agree with most of the points raised by the OP. However, I would add that if 1D&D is going the route of templates, A) make templates 100% optional, and B) differentiate templates not only based on land, water, and air, but also based on function: 3 templates per environment. Land, Water, and Air should each get one Stealth option, one Bruiser option, and one Control option. Stealth would mean a Stealth bonus as well as keen senses of some kind, not unlike the PHB Owl. Bruiser would be something chunky with a lot of hit points, like the current PHB Brown Bear. Control would be some form that offers one or more abilities for inflicting a status condition on an opponent, much as the PHB Constrictor Snake imposes the Restrained condition or the PHB Giant Octopus creates obscurement (not technically a condition but those inside the cloud are basically blinded). As such, there could be 9 templates, which is far easier to handle than just handing the Monster Manual to a player, but also contains some tactical depth so as not to be boring and super-limited from the get-go.
Above all, devs should be aware that too much streamlining kills the point of playing the Druid. Druid is not Cleric of Nature. It is a separate class for a reason. The improvisational adaptability of Wildshape should be one of those reasons.